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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: sdnnvs on Tue, 15 March 2011, 06:35:48

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: sdnnvs on Tue, 15 March 2011, 06:35:48

Hello, I'd like your opinion about the best mechanical keyboard for Starcraft II. I was thinking to choose between Topre (HHKB2pro, mostly) and some Cherry MX (black, red, blue or brown, I do not know).
Do not know much about mechanical keyboards, so I would suggestion you. Thanks.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: vun on Tue, 15 March 2011, 06:57:10

From what I've head Topre isn't really good for gaming. Browns or blues would be a safe bet, with reds you might experience a lot of accidental presses.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: Shuki on Tue, 15 March 2011, 07:09:57

Topre is fine as long as you get a uniform key weighting.

Tbh no particular switch is better for starcraft, have a read about different switches and try to decide which you would prefer.

You need to decide whether you want auditory feedback, tactile feedback and how much force it takes to activate a key and then people will be able to help.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 15 March 2011, 07:10:26

What's wrong with topre for gaming? I think they're a great gaming switch.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: vun on Tue, 15 March 2011, 07:35:21

Quote from: keyboardlover;312020

What's wrong with topre for gaming? I think they're a great gaming switch.

I just remember reading somewhere here that they weren't that good for gaming, though I might be wrong. Can't really say much about it since I've never tried Topre.

Still, considering the cost I'd say there are better options if the 'board is mostly going to be used for gaming unless you really love Topre.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: sdnnvs on Tue, 15 March 2011, 07:37:20

Yes,  most correct is test one by one. But, I don't have conditions to do that. So, I need feedback by SC2's players. I have the Logitech's G19 and I don't like it. I need focus with smaller keyboard and I like the feedback of clicks and tactiles. So, I think buy both, brown and blue, leaving off black and red.
Sorry my english (ESL).
Cheers...
Sidnei

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: vun on Tue, 15 March 2011, 07:39:51

Quote from: sdnnvs;312028

So, I think buy both, brown and blue

I did the same, mostly because if I bought just one of them I'd forever wonder if the other would be better.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: artee on Tue, 15 March 2011, 07:42:50

what about clears? :-D

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: RiGS on Tue, 15 March 2011, 07:45:29

Quote from: keyboardlover;312020

What's wrong with topre for gaming? I think they're a great gaming switch.

Dunno yet, a few more days and I will get more insight on that. Have you actually tried topre with Starcraft 2, or with an other RTS game?

Quote

Your muscle memory is imperfect; moreso as you tire and become stressed or distracted. The example I gave about 1 in 20 keypresses is very much a possibility. Gradually increasing resistance aside, linear switches feel the same all-the-way-down, so the less accurate your muscle memory is, the more work your eyes need to do confirming your actions.

So far, I really like the consistent feel of the linear switch, but I have to admit that majestouch made me change my mind on the effect of tactility in RTS games.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: NumberJ on Tue, 15 March 2011, 09:09:23

I would think that attempting to try all of them would be the best thing to do. There's no way to know which one you'll like best until you do.

BUT, if you want to be like your favorite player...

FruitDealer and Tester use Browns
Boxer prefers blues
Most of team EG (IdrA, InControl) play on blacks, but I think this is due to a Steelseries sponsorship.
Back in the Brood War scene, the almighty Flash uses browns

As far as I know, almost every other gamer in GSL is using some Cherry MX based 'board. Not sure about Topres

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: hansmuff on Tue, 15 March 2011, 10:35:04

Quote from: NumberJ;312067

As far as I know, almost every other gamer in GSL is using some Cherry MX based 'board. Not sure about Topres

I bet it comes down to the cost. A $250 keyboard isn't something you remove keys from and have dirt get into the switches. Some players remove keys they don't use / don't want to accidentally press, for instance.
A lot of players use bog standard $10 jobs because of this exact reason, they want cheap and readily available replacements.
The cherry switch players probably are a mix of sponsorship from the keyboard manufacturers (we know Steelseries and Filco both advertise in the SC scene) and a desire for accurate key response.
Topre are great switches but a little expensive to mess with, and I don't see Topre as sponsors in the SC scene either.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: EmKey on Tue, 15 March 2011, 10:50:37

Using keyboard for starcraft isnt that different from your every day use. Its mostly matter of preference. I played on browns and blues ( im 3k masters zerg for what its worth). Both are good choices. But i would just read overall reviews from different keyboards and decide from there. Browns being the safest choice. Think of blue as browns without clickiness. Blacks are to stiff for quite a lot of people but it doesnt necessary mean that it will be the case for you. Red will be probably fine too (reds = lighter blacks). I cant comment on topre other than get 55g beacuse variable force maybe little odd for gaming.
Theres several topics about keyboards on teamliquid.net.
Great pic for deciding about keyboard/switches
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7388/mechancial.png) (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/mechancial.png/)

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: DanGWanG on Tue, 15 March 2011, 10:59:59

Here are my opinions, but whiteweazel21 would disagree with me (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=16088):

I prefer Cherry Blues for SC2.  The clicking sound helps me concentrate on the game, and keeps me focused throughout.  If you like riding the actuation point, linear switches are better for that.  (Cherry Reds or Cherry Blacks)  Because my APM is pretty high, I prefer a lighter switch so my fingers don't get as fatigued during a match.  For this reason, the Cherry Reds appear to be the most ideal switch for SC2.  You'll find that many people dislike Cherry Blacks for RTS games because they take a lot more force to press.  However, for FPS, it is the majority preferred switch.

For Realforce/Topre boards, I would agree in my opinion, that it is not an ideal gaming keyboard for the majority of the population.  (Especially the variable weighted RF's)  Due to the positioning of your fingers while gaming (WASD, QWERTY, number row), the lighter keys on the variable weighted keyboard tend to get tapped a lot on accident.  This is because the keys are meant for your pinky or 4th finger.  The 2nd reason being that the surface area of topre keycaps appear to be smaller than Filcos/Das/Rosewill and the like.  This makes it hard to press the keys in the exact same spot that you're used to.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: speakeasy on Tue, 15 March 2011, 11:22:41

Honestly I don't think mech keyboards make a big difference for SCII. The only thing they help me do better is APM spam. They sure feel nice as hell though and help you type faster.

But if improving in SCII is what you're after, you're better off taking that $200 you're willing to spend on a Topre, buy a QSENN DT-35, and spend the remainder on something like GosuCoaching.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: pitashen on Tue, 15 March 2011, 11:54:42

I　recently just converted a friend to mech keyboard. He plays quite a bit of  SC2. He got himself a brown Filco. I can't comment on whether it makes him win significantly more games or not, but he certainly feel that the overall flow is smoother.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: Variable on Tue, 15 March 2011, 13:01:54

it's all personal preference but if you want to do what the pros do, browns seem the most popular.

I haven't used them myself but I like the sound of the blues. it keeps me focused and in rhythm.

but really it doesn't matter... the only necessity is a nice mouse.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: Arc'xer on Tue, 15 March 2011, 13:21:23

Topre is perfectly fine for gaming the biggest issues are the multi-weight; ironically some people play games with them just fine, they do have trouble here and there but over time they forget about it. And the 55g which some have commented and even a quake player on here saying it's great. But the 55g also has a reputation of being a little tiring for some who've posted on here and being disliked a bit.

It's the lack of a middle-ground uniform 45g that some want, which costs a premium over the Topre price. Like the Gtune Realforce 108B-MP (http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/933277-gtune-realforce-108b-mp-review.html). And considering how Topre is they lean more towards business side of keyboards rather than cater to gaming, non-business users, etc.etc.

Topre would be a great switch, there are cheaper alternatives. But if you want to go for it just prepare to pay the premium. You can also hunt down some of the higher-end rubber domes around like keytronic and whatnot if your wanting somewhat similar experience.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: Zurich on Tue, 15 March 2011, 14:32:54

Steelseries 6gv2 is a great board for gaming. I bought the Rosewill RK-9000 because blue switches are better than black switches for typing (I do a lot of writing), but black switches are the best I hear for simply gaming. I would go with the Steelseries 6gV2 I know a lot of professional SC2 gamers use it. Filco are also popular with Korean professionals, as are Zowie. Both of those are more expensive, however.

If you want something around 100 I would go 6gV2 if you want the best board for simply gaming. If not that, I'd still look for black switches if it's just for gaming (as I said). Go with blue switches if you want a board that's good for gaming and typing.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: Zurich on Tue, 15 March 2011, 14:35:27

Browns are fine for gaming, but if you don't mind the noise of mechanical switches there's really no advantage that browns have over black in terms of conduciveness to gaming. Black switches are harder to press and louder. Being that they are harder to press, you're less likely to mistakenly hit a key like you might be prone to do on browns. I think some gamers like browns because they are quiet, not because they are better for gaming than blacks or blues (blacks are msot commonly used for mechanical boards that are made for gaming).

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: RiGS on Tue, 15 March 2011, 14:50:42

Quote from: Zurich;312246

Black switches are harder to press and louder..

Really? Just think that again!

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: manfaux on Tue, 15 March 2011, 15:09:46

Don't ever, ever, EVER get cherry blacks for starcraft, for typing maybe, but not for starcraft. If you prefer a linear feel, go for the reds.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: Metalix on Tue, 15 March 2011, 15:13:12

What ever you end up... you will be happy anyways once you are typing on a mechanical keyboard :) Also All cherry mx switches are good for sc2 when you see all switches are used for this game.

I'm using browns because I do not want loud sound feedback from keys(no no to blue switches) and I do not want to press hard so I ended up with browns. Everyone has his own preference. Just follow what you desire.

So do not buy blue if you hate loud feedback sound for example ^^


Good luck finding you switch!

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: pitashen on Tue, 15 March 2011, 15:24:20

Given that you are a newb to mech keyboards, meaning you might bottom out a lot, black switch wouldn't be a good choice for SC2. Since black switch requires a lot more force to bottom out, it will tire out your fingers quite quickly in RTS. Chances are you might end up hating the keyboard before you fall in love with it.

Brown is a much safer starter choice.

Blue is a decent choice as well, but I have heard blue is not ideal for fast tapping (in RTS games) due to the trigger and reset point positioning (check the force plot in wiki)

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: vicariouscheese on Tue, 15 March 2011, 16:30:08

Quote from: Zurich;312244

but black switches are the best I hear for simply gaming.

This is just marketing... compounded by the fact that most gamers have never tried any other type of mechanical switch since steelseries with blacks came out first.  Consider that until someone made a big deal about fruitdealer using a mechanical, most people did not even know they existed, even those with the 6g/7g :P

your comment about alot of pros using steelseries doesn't actually say that much about blacks as a switch; if you're on certain teams, you have to use steelseries equipment, so obviously they're using black.  The pros using filco are much more indicative of what types of switches they use, since afair filco does not sponsor anyone.

This isn't to say that blacks are bad.  Just that marketing + pro sponsorships make them a little overrepresented.  I think I might actually prefer them over reds since browns do sometimes give me issues from being a light switch, but I'm sure I'll end up trying everything short of topres (until I have a lot of disposable income, obviously) anyways!

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: pitashen on Tue, 15 March 2011, 16:46:36

Usually heavy FPS players would have more positive views on the black switches

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: canon.tk on Tue, 15 March 2011, 16:48:16

IMO blacks are better for gaming and I own and use all three (black, brown and blue) switches.

They're not all that hard to press and people seem to make them sound like you need to be super strong or you'll get fatigued.  I have long skinny fingers and can do my rotation spam for hours with my hunter in WoW without any problems.

As many people said it comes down to personal preference.  The catch 22 is that you need to try each switch to see which one you'll like the best.

I like blues for typing and blacks for gaming.  Browns are an ok in between but after using blues all day at work and gaming at night on blacks browns seem a little mushy to me.  Can't really describe it.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: manfaux on Tue, 15 March 2011, 17:22:59

Flash with his new MX Blacks.

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcXeZgUTA8dvcKBRA4EYJasGnKf6Ej7Ngj_dNFl1bxOUAwOrvnnA&t=1)

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: DeltaGunner on Tue, 15 March 2011, 17:33:54

Is that a CRT monitor? Old skool for the win. Btw his face looks really ****ed up.

OT: im gonna go for blues in my first mech board after trying blacks and blues at CeBIT (Tt eSports Meka G1, Razer Blackwidow Ultimate). They(the blues) just felt nicer with the click in the middle, after 5 minutes of SCII i already wasnt bottoming all the time.

Title: Starcraft II
Post by: RiGS on Tue, 15 March 2011, 19:14:19

Quote from: manfaux;312318

Flash with his new MX Blacks.

Show Image

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcXeZgUTA8dvcKBRA4EYJasGnKf6Ej7Ngj_dNFl1bxOUAwOrvnnA&t=1)

He reminds me of professor MadEye.

(http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2005_Harry_Potter_and_the_Goblet_of_Fire/005HPG_Brendan_Gleeson_007.jpg)