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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: drozzy on Wed, 16 March 2011, 07:20:23

Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: drozzy on Wed, 16 March 2011, 07:20:23: First of all I wanted to say thanks to this forum with helping me gt my first mechanical. I got Das Keyboard Silent. It's excellent. (I must say "silent" is really meant as "soft" and not "quite").

QUESTION!
I am looking at Topre Realforce listing here:
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=special&filter=fullsize

and for the life of me I can't figure out what is the difference between 103UB and the one they have on "sale" - 103U-UW?
Am I loosing something if I get the 103U-UW?

Also I am not sure why would anyone get black on black - that seems like a bad idea.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 16 March 2011, 08:16:43: The color is different and the 103u-uw comes with some extra stuff. That's about it.

Welcome to Geekhack!
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: drozzy on Wed, 16 March 2011, 09:04:14: So you mean its white, comes with extra stuff and cheaper? I don't know why would they have a sale on it... Seems fishy.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Engine on Wed, 16 March 2011, 17:58:02: Only difference is color. The price difference is due to a(and I got this answer here on GH and feel it makes complete sense) model close out(103U-UW) and is being replaced with a new model(the same really), the 103U, also white. I wanted white and asked the same question you're asking except that I was comparing the two "white" keyboards that had no apparent difference, except the cheaper one had extra goodies. By the way, I ordered the 103U-UW and expect it's arrival on Friday.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 16 March 2011, 18:06:55: What you have to understand about elitekeyboards is that they do it for the lulz (http://www.elitekeyboards.com/suppdata/images/201012army440.jpg).

At one point the 103U-UW was priced at $199 for about about a week, then went back up to $215. Lolwut?
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Engine on Wed, 16 March 2011, 19:36:32: Do you think you'll ever try the 55g Topre?
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 16 March 2011, 20:06:47: Quote from: Engine;312963
Do you think you'll ever try the 55g Topre?

Who, me? I used to own 2 of them. Liked them a lot, overall.

However I ultimately preferred the variable-force and I had too many Realforces and had to sell some of them.

At the moment I'm really liking my custom keyboards (cherry reds and clears).
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Engine on Wed, 16 March 2011, 20:42:20: Do you think the Topre variable at 45g, is about the same typing experience as Cherry Browns, also 45g? Or is there a note-worthy difference? I know that the Topre is a different animal from anything else but still...
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 16 March 2011, 20:54:58: Huge difference. The entire feel of the switch is different. The Cherry browns feel more mechanical and are a bit louder...really hard to describe the difference better than that.

Also, the tenkeyless Filco with browns that I used to own had a really annoying 'ping' sound whenever I typed. I've heard that only some of those boards had that issue. Could be PEBKAC but I'm usually better at pointing out that issue with others...
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: BucklingSpring on Wed, 16 March 2011, 21:13:14: Quote from: keyboardlover;312997
Huge difference. The entire feel of the switch is different. The Cherry browns feel more mechanical and are a bit louder...really hard to describe the difference better than that.

Yes hard to describe... Very different switches.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 16 March 2011, 21:17:59: FWIW, I liked the feel of cherry browns a LOT better on the Compaq MX11800 (PCB-mounted) than on the Filco (Plate-mounted).
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Engine on Wed, 16 March 2011, 21:18:24: Do you guys see the "ergonomic" side to the Topre variable board?
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 16 March 2011, 21:20:42: To some extent I do see the ergonomic value in the variable weighting. It's subtle enough but can be noticeable (seems like an oxymoron but it's true). I don't know how to explain it; it just feels really nice to type on for long periods of time.

Actually I'm more interested to hear what YOU think when you get it! :D
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Engine on Wed, 16 March 2011, 21:33:41: If Surly73 is "wrong", I'll have it by Friday and test it all weekend. Otherwise, I'll report back in the "it came" thread asap.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 16 March 2011, 21:40:54: Nice! Bet you can't wait =)
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Engine on Wed, 16 March 2011, 21:46:40: You're right!
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: BucklingSpring on Wed, 16 March 2011, 21:50:08: Quote from: Engine;313009
Do you guys see the "ergonomic" side to the Topre variable board?

If ergonomic means healthier and improved performance. I can't feel it.
By seat of the pants measurements - No noticable difference in term of fatigue or wpm.

I prefer all 55g...
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Engine on Wed, 16 March 2011, 22:14:30: BS,
You may be typing too hard? Like you would on your BS?
I feel that it may mean a different typing approach to benifit from a Topre variable but I'm not sure.
I think I prefer a more tactile feel/click but am hoping to find a good writer's board for me and my wrists. I'll see. I do wish that GH would offer an all 55g white some day. I'd like to try both.
BS and KL and anyone else, I'd like to hear from you on what you find different between the two boards? I mean, I know the obvious will be the "tactile feel". Is there more click? Also, in general, what is the over-all experience?
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: nigritude on Thu, 17 March 2011, 00:51:48: Quote from: keyboardlover;312911
What you have to understand about elitekeyboards is that they do it for the lulz (http://www.elitekeyboards.com/suppdata/images/201012army440.jpg).

At one point the 103U-UW was priced at $199 for about about a week, then went back up to $215. Lolwut?

love this post
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Surly73 on Thu, 17 March 2011, 07:01:46: Quote from: keyboardlover;312997
Huge difference. The entire feel of the switch is different. The Cherry browns feel more mechanical and are a bit louder...really hard to describe the difference better than that.

I'll second this. I have a Realforce 55g (for less than a week) and a Cherry brown Filco (for about 2-3 weeks). There's a lot more different about them than how many nickels it would take to depress the key. The switch feel, key feel, sound, everything is different.

I hate to say it, but my Filco feels like a toy compared to my Realforce (and my model M), and it's not just a subliminal effect because of the price of the Realforce. I don't dislike the Filco, so I don't want Cherry lovers burning me at the stake. I still plan on trying a board with Cherry clears. I have also not compared browns in PCB vs. plate mounted - only the Filco. I'd love to try PCB-mounted browns as well.

When I first started typing on my Realforce an analogy came to mind. I find the Realforce is kind of like a sport package BMW or a Porsche. It's a fairly capable and responsive car but they also manage to keep it from being harsh and jarring despite tightness and lots of road communication - it just works. There are other cars out there that reviewers say are faster, or handle better, or "do the same thing" for less money but when you actually drive them you can tell the difference. I'm not talking about price tag, I'm talking about character. If I just wanted to say it was expensive I could say it was the Ferrari or Rolls of keyboards - that's not my point. It has a solid, quality feel with easy to press but tactile keys, no binding and a muted "thocky" sound that's a pleasure to use. It's responsive, yet sophisticated, and communicates "quality" all around without bling or unnecessary flashiness.

My wife, who has been "meh" about all of the keyboards I've been fooling around with since getting serious about this said "ooh, this is nice" when I hooked up the Realforce. She's stated a clear preference for the Realforce.

Geez, Topre should pay me...
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: drozzy on Thu, 17 March 2011, 07:17:17: I refuse to believe that the lower priced keyboard is exactly the same as another, more expensive one, with more stuff.

I emailed elite - and asked if I could buy the white - for the same price $215. And they said yes. This makes me feel less suspicious. But my mind still cannot process the logic behind the pricing... I ... feel.... madness ... rising
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 17 March 2011, 07:49:35: Lol. Because its the EXACT SAME KEYBOARD!

I told you they do it for the lulz. But you didn't believe me! Why didn't you believe me!!
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 17 March 2011, 07:57:00: Companies end up with old stock and they need to shift it off, often for tax reasons. In some cases, the old model may be completely equivalent to the new one, with some subtle changes that no one will notice.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 19:26:52: "You may be typing too hard? Like you would on your BS?"
I know I do... Guilty as charged

"I'd like to hear from you on what you find different between the two boards? I mean, I know the obvious will be the "tactile feel". Is there more click?"

Topres are somewhat tactile but certainly not clicky, 55g or not. The lighter switches on the variable are almost linear. The tactile bump is next to none. That's what I don't like about the variable, some switches are practically linear. Apparently it's not getting any better over time.

Quote from: Engine;313030
BS,
You may be typing too hard? Like you would on your BS?
I feel that it may mean a different typing approach to benifit from a Topre variable but I'm not sure.
I think I prefer a more tactile feel/click but am hoping to find a good writer's board for me and my wrists. I'll see. I do wish that GH would offer an all 55g white some day. I'd like to try both.
BS and KL and anyone else, I'd like to hear from you on what you find different between the two boards? I mean, I know the obvious will be the "tactile feel". Is there more click? Also, in general, what is the over-all experience?
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 17 March 2011, 19:31:19: Quote
That's what I don't like about the variable, some switches are practically linear.

Those are my favourite switches. I wish they were a tad stiffer, but linear.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 19:45:25: Quote from: RiGS;313632
Those are my favourite switches. I wish they were a tad stiffer, but linear.

Personal taste is something I'll never challenge.
Have you tried MX Reds? Linear, light and reliable. Something "you" apparently don't notice in a Topre.:biggrin:

Then for a tad stiffer, MX Black are tha best.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 17 March 2011, 20:09:47: Cherry switches have a progressive force curve as opposed to topre which are constant.
However I don't like the friction in the Cherry mx switches.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 20:55:56: Quote from: RiGS;313653
Cherry switches have a progressive force curve as opposed to topre which are constant.
However I don't like the friction in the Cherry mx switches.

How can it be constant and tactile at the same time?

Do this looks like a strait line to you?

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10478&stc=1&d=1275356653)
image taken from the Topre wiki
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Engine on Thu, 17 March 2011, 21:07:09: I'll be getting the Leo Browns and Blues soon. I want all my first wave of kbs to test/review in quick order. I'll come back with the poop on the comparisons later.
Right now, my new Topre should arrive tomorrow, unless Surly is right and it comes Monday.
I'll put my order in at GH for my new Leo Blues and Browns tonight and hope to get those with in the next couple of weeks.
I have to admit that I only briefly tried and reboxed my new Space Saver the same night it arrived because I thought I'd be delivering that to my Mom right after that but it didn't happen yet, so I may play with that in the meantime too.
Ultimatley, I want to test/review BS, Cherry Blues, Cherry Browns, Topre variable and possibly Topre uniform 55g but the later depends on how I feel about this first Topre.
I'm also comparing tenkeyless with full size for ergo as well as the switches themselves. Whew!
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 21:48:04: Quote from: ripster;313692
? They are all in the Wiki. RiGS is quite correct that Topres have a subtle rubber dome like tactile hump.

I'm fine with the hump. As the graphic shows, the force is not constant. Otherwise you can't have the hump... In other words, it's the "constant" in his statement that got my attention.

But to RiGS credit, On average the non-constant force in the Topre switch is flat as opposed to progressive in the Cherry linear.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 17 March 2011, 21:49:57: I like humping my Topres. But I don't hump them for 12 hours straight like RiGS. No wonder they're worn out!
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 18 March 2011, 07:02:18: Quote from: keyboardlover;313725
I like humping my Topres. But I don't hump them for 12 hours straight like RiGS. No wonder they're worn out!

It took me 3 days. They are not worn out, I would say they just feel a slightly different.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: drozzy on Fri, 18 March 2011, 07:32:32: Hey hey... bring my thread back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrAxeV--eXE&feature=related)! I want my thread B A C K!!!

But boy - is Topre expensive. I'm having second thoughts.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: XiP on Fri, 18 March 2011, 13:29:08: I just received my 103UB in the mail and it's now my favorite keyboard :-)
I don't know anything about the 103U-UW.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Surly73 on Fri, 18 March 2011, 16:08:50: Quote from: XiP;314002
I just received my 103UB in the mail and it's now my favorite keyboard :-)

It took me about that long too. :)
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: mrsone on Fri, 18 March 2011, 20:34:49: I have had both the all 55g Realforce and the variable weighted one, and I did end up preferring the variable weighted one as I use my Realforce at work for extended typing. Also the dark color of the all 55g did get to me after awhile. The only thing I would change about the variable weighting is the 30g weighed keys. It is a little too easy for my pinky to press down on those keys unintentionally but otherwise I love it.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Engine on Fri, 18 March 2011, 21:55:40: I'm wondering if an all 45g board is in order period, as far as the "variable" is concerned?
Keep "55g" the same I suppose.
My thoughts before trying it of course =)
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: thrasymedes on Mon, 21 March 2011, 13:32:08: First post... proud new owner of a 103u-uw and I can't figure out for the life of me how to use the key stoppers. I like to put them under the F1 and F3 keys (regular Excel user and they get in the way of F2 / F4) and the keys won't pop on when I put them under them. Am I missing something here? Thanks.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 21 March 2011, 15:30:56: Just pull up very lightly. They should POP off. Welcome to Geekhack!
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: thrasymedes on Mon, 21 March 2011, 15:39:59: Quote from: keyboardlover;315396
Just pull up very lightly. They should POP off. Welcome to Geekhack!

Thanks for the welcome.

I can get the keys off fine with the key puller - by key stoppers, I mean the little black plastic things that look like they should go UNDER the keys.
These things: http://en.item.rakuten.com/filco/10000219/
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 21 March 2011, 16:19:36: Oh...I have no clue about those :/
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: BucklingSpring on Mon, 21 March 2011, 16:26:47: Quote from: thrasymedes;315402
Thanks for the welcome.

I can get the keys off fine with the key puller - by key stoppers, I mean the little black plastic things that look like they should go UNDER the keys.
These things: http://en.item.rakuten.com/filco/10000219/

I have no clue either... Got my 103UW last week and still wondering what are those... And too shy to ask since I'm supposed to be a Keyboard expert ;-)

Picture from the link above:
(http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/@0_mall/filco/cabinet/item/img55328204.jpg?_ex=240x240)
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: BucklingSpring on Mon, 21 March 2011, 16:32:19: It was too obvious... Wanna kill a key... Such as the Windows Key...

(http://www.dharmapoint.com/files/key_stopper.jpg)

Slide the stopper under and the key is now disabled.
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: panda-R on Mon, 21 March 2011, 16:33:15: This thread is awesome. I have the keystopper!
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 21 March 2011, 17:20:25: (http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/6363736/he-decided-to-stop-his-keys-i-decided-to-stop-his-life.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Murder-Boy)
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: thrasymedes on Mon, 21 March 2011, 21:40:52: Quote from: BucklingSpring;315426
It was too obvious... Wanna kill a key... Such as the Windows Key...

Show Image
(http://www.dharmapoint.com/files/key_stopper.jpg)

Slide the stopper under and the key is now disabled.

Call me stupid, but this doesn't work. You can't just 'slide' it under the key as the key sits too low, and when I pull the cap off and put the stoppper over the switch, I can't replace the keycap (it won't click back on... obviously). Can any realforce owner confirm that this works?
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: marvkip on Tue, 22 March 2011, 02:33:07: did you guys even scroll down the page? Take off a key next to the one that you want to stop (ex. take off alt if you want to put the stopper on the left windows key) and slide it under from the right.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=16315&stc=1&d=1300779158)

i made a pretty picture
Title: Realforce 103UB vs 103U-UW
Post by: Disposable Hero on Mon, 06 February 2012, 15:02:44: where do you get these key stoppers?...i want one for my caps lock..