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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Kacee on Thu, 17 March 2011, 08:27:13

Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Kacee on Thu, 17 March 2011, 08:27:13: I'm thinking about getting an Realforce and most likely a tenkeyless. I looked up and found out that beside one extra right side Windows key (which I don't use) and some spare keycaps. The 86U and the 87U are identical. Is there any other different that worth $80 extra?

Also, I'm buying from taobao, do you know how to identify which one is variable key weighted?
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 17 March 2011, 08:33:06: They are both variable, but the 86U has 30g pinky domes, the 87u has 35g pinky domes. The 87U also has windowed keys, and a virtual numpad.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: DanGWanG on Thu, 17 March 2011, 08:59:21: ^What RiGS said.

The 86U will always come in ONLY variable weights (30,45,55). The 87U has two options: Variable or 55g All Weighted.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Surly73 on Thu, 17 March 2011, 09:18:48: Actually there's more different than the extra windows key. According to my research the 87U has the following "extras":

- extra windows key
- inlaid numpad
- LED indicators in the "LOCK" keys (vs. no LEDs at all on the 86U)
- variable or uniform key weighting options

I wish the 86U had LEDs somewhere like the Filo tenkeyless design. I would care a lot less about having lights in the keys if there were some on the board at all. I think I'd prefer an 87U but the 86U is already ridiculously expensive.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Lpb45 on Thu, 17 March 2011, 10:57:04: Do they make the 87u in white? Can it only be found through Tabao agents?
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Kacee on Thu, 17 March 2011, 11:36:47: So IMHO I don't see any benefit of the 87U that's worth $80 more... maybe I'll just go with the 86U... easier to find...
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 17 March 2011, 14:23:59: Topre keyboards are overpriced. Imo it is not worth more than 150$.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 14:59:09: Quote from: RiGS;313419
Topre keyboards are overpriced. Imo it is not worth more than 150$.

(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk195/CJLogix/ForumTroll.jpg)
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Exoverture on Thu, 17 March 2011, 15:15:53: No, I'd actually agree, they are definitely overpriced.

The build quality is great, but... I don't think it's worth that price at all.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: ashort on Thu, 17 March 2011, 15:26:52: Quote from: Exoverture;313448
No, I'd actually agree, they are definitely overpriced.

The build quality is great, but... I don't think it's worth that price at all.

Speaking of overpriced, the Sultan of Brunei keeps a Rolls Royce available at his front door, RUNNING, 24x7. That means he owns at least 2 of them and I'm guessing the real number is an exponential expansion of that, not additive. I don't have a single Rolls Royce.

I find the HHKB2's overpriced, so I don't own one. There are too many people on here with an opposite opinion, and it's not worth arguing over anyway. I've put my hands on one, and typed and I don't get it.

I just type happily away on my Majestouch with browns. A lot of people I talk to can't believe I paid $140 for that keyboard. For them the Filco is too expensive. FOOLS, I say. :biggrin:

Now I've ponied up for the KBC Poker.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 17 March 2011, 15:30:36: Quote from: BucklingSpring;313436
Show Image
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk195/CJLogix/ForumTroll.jpg)

Are you a WoW noob?
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: digitalleftovers on Thu, 17 March 2011, 15:43:31: Quote from: Exoverture;313448
No, I'd actually agree, they are definitely overpriced.

The build quality is great, but... I don't think it's worth that price at all.

I think the Japanese are trying to tell us to pay our programmers and IT people more money. I <3 Japan!

On another note. Does anyone have a position on the usefulness of the Kana layer in the 91U series? I've used software character entry (microsoft office) and it works pretty well, but if I'm going to spend that much money, hardware entry might be pretty cool.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 15:48:51: Quote from: RiGS;313462
Are you a WoW noob?

Nah... more of a FPS Vet.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 17 March 2011, 15:50:51: Quote from: RiGS;313419
Topre keyboards are overpriced. Imo it is not worth more than 150$.

Do you have a Topre keyboard?
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 15:58:52: You're in good shape as soon as your product makes profit.
Charging as much as the market is welling to pay is good business.

I don't think camel p!ss in perfume justifies a 200$/ounce price tag.
Still, you've got enough people to pay and spray it in their face.

Go figure... Topre is highend, nobody argues with that. Absurd price tag often comes with highend. Too bad some of us are dumb enough to buy them. If we weren't that many, prices would go down.

Btw, the OP is not asking if Topre are overpriced. He wants to know if the difference between the two boards worth 80$... The 87U per its rarity creates a demand. Thus the higher price.

It only worth it to the one welling to pay 80$ more to get a 87U.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 17 March 2011, 16:00:25: Quote from: ch_123;313484
Do you have a Topre keyboard?

Yep.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Exoverture on Thu, 17 March 2011, 17:10:59: Quote from: BucklingSpring;313487
Go figure... Topre is highend, nobody argues with that.

I find it to be high quality construction, trapped within mediocre switches.

I don't think you'd be feeling up the keyboard all the time. So, that leaves typing on it, which means using the switches.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 17:39:46: Quote from: Exoverture;313528
I find it to be high quality construction, trapped within mediocre switches.

What is your definition of mediocre? I've never worn out a Topre so I don't know if the switches are up to the documented 30 million cycles and/or if operating them will feel the same during the whole life of the keyboard.
I suggest we start this debate on another thread. The OP doesn't want to know why he should pay 80$ more to choose betwen two mediocre set of switches.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 17 March 2011, 17:53:51: Why is a filmsy ABS plastic case considered high-end? What about the poor keycap alignment, and the extremely fragile stabilizer?
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: digitalleftovers on Thu, 17 March 2011, 18:30:01: Quote from: ripster;313535
There really IS no JIS hardware entry. Someday I'll do a Japanese keyboard wiki.

You mean that the kana do not get their own scan codes? I figured that might be the case, but the ability to go from english to kana with a keyboard button rather than a three key press a bunch of mouse clicks is a vast improvement.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 17 March 2011, 18:35:28: There's nothing wrong with being sensitive.

That's what my mom says.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 17 March 2011, 18:40:23: I have not said anything bad about ABS. I said that the ABS Realforce case is definitely not high quality.
The case of the Steelseries made of ABS plastic as well, yet it is much more solid than the Realforce.
I even like the ABS plastic keycaps over the PBTs. PBT gets slippery.
I would consider an Aluminium case high-end.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 18:51:27: Quote from: RiGS;313545
Why is a filmsy ABS plastic case considered high-end? What about the poor keycap alignment, and the extremely fragile stabilizer?

Ok then, I'm sold to your view. Topre are piece of sh!t keyboards and they really stinks in my collection.

I'm going to give them for free to the one I hate the most.

Are ya happy now? Can we talk about something else?

And for the OP... No, don't bother spending 80$ more. Just be mean to me and if you try hard enough. I'll give you my 87U for free. I'll even pay the shipping if you make me cry.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 17 March 2011, 18:53:30: Yea, seeing as how RiGS doesn't seem to "get" or "see" the high points of a Realforce (which are really high in comparison to most mechanical keyboards) I'd say successful troll is successful. Again.

Sigh.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 17 March 2011, 19:24:07: They are good indeed, but definitely not better than most of the mechanicals out there.
Do you want a poll on that?
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: guilleguillaume on Thu, 17 March 2011, 19:34:29: It's quite funny to see RiGS talking **** about Realforce Keyboards in every thread I read today.

I had a Steelseries 7G during one year and now I have a Realforce 91 UBY that I have since October I think. Don't actually think Steelseries keyboards are better than Realforce in any way as they are not better than the Filco Blues Tenkeyless I have.

Steelseries Keycaps are **** and they're pulled out of the stem just for looking at them, if you do a keypress and then remove your finger the keycap just jumps out of the stem LOL :loco:
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 19:39:41: Quote from: guilleguillaume;313633
if you do a keypress and then remove your finger the keycap just jumps out of the stem LOL :loco:

Are you sure you are not talking about a TVS Gold? LoL
Cauz they do that too.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 17 March 2011, 19:46:02: SS keycaps are filmsy, but they are not slippery like pbts. That keyboard was designed for gaming.
Topre was designed for office use.
I said I like my topre, and I intend to keep it, but I think it is a bit overpriced.
The keys are also nice for typing.
However, I not like the case, it is kinda loose, and I can easily flex my 105U.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: laden3 on Thu, 17 March 2011, 20:12:02: Quote from: Surly73;313233
Actually there's more different than the extra windows key. According to my research the 87U has the following "extras":

- extra windows key
- inlaid numpad
- LED indicators in the "LOCK" keys (vs. no LEDs at all on the 86U)
- variable or uniform key weighting options

I wish the 86U had LEDs somewhere like the Filo tenkeyless design. I would care a lot less about having lights in the keys if there were some on the board at all. I think I'd prefer an 87U but the 86U is already ridiculously expensive.

I think 87U has a different font size too...
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Exoverture on Thu, 17 March 2011, 20:35:47: Quote from: keyboardlover;313607
Yea, seeing as how RiGS doesn't seem to "get" or "see" the high points of a Realforce (which are really high in comparison to most mechanical keyboards) I'd say successful troll is successful. Again.

Sigh.

I don't see how this applies just because he doesn't agree with Topre = king. There's quite a few people who don't, AFAIK.

They sell their switches themselves and set their profit margin a lot higher than others, as that is clearly shown. People think high prices with high quality and/or better than competition, and unfortunately, that is not always the case.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 20:48:31: Quote from: ripster;313666
Don't think so....

Helvetica for the Optimistic

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=16187&stc=1&d=1300412878)
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 17 March 2011, 20:49:22: Quote from: BucklingSpring;313680
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=16187&stc=1&d=1300412878)

Is it lasered?
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 17 March 2011, 20:52:24: Quote from: RiGS;313682
Is it lasered?

No it's dead-ed

I have a 87U...

Ripster, is your pic from a 87 or a 86?
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 17 March 2011, 21:07:24: 87U. Ripster would never purchase an 86U. He's WAY to leet for that.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Kacee on Fri, 18 March 2011, 00:02:55: Quote from: BucklingSpring;313605
Ok then, I'm sold to your view. Topre are piece of sh!t keyboards and they really stinks in my collection.

I'm going to give them for free to the one I hate the most.

Are ya happy now? Can we talk about something else?

And for the OP... No, don't bother spending 80$ more. Just be mean to me and if you try hard enough. I'll give you my 87U for free. I'll even pay the shipping if you make me cry.

lol...

Actually I have always think Topre is just a glorified rubber dome type of switch :D

But I'm curious, so curious I have to buy one to try...

Please keep discussing in this thread.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: gilgam on Fri, 18 March 2011, 02:59:58: My 105 topre keyboard is very well build, a high quality with no flex at all (Rigs must be VERY strong) and the keys'feeling is very light,, the keycaps are very nice too with a nice touch.

Does it worth the price ?
Maybe not, but the price is forgotten, the pleasure stays.

I do love my 40$ used g80-1800 cherry black better anyway...
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: nocturn4l3030 on Fri, 18 March 2011, 03:56:23: the keyboard is expensive enough as it is... IMO.. the lights and 35g isn't enough to make me pay $80 more for it... oh and the extra windows key to the right.

the 30g compared to 35g is noticeable.. but you really have to look for it. tbh it did bother me at first... only because i was spending $200+ on a friggin keyboard so I was being picky with everything, but now I don't even notice it.

go with the 86u and save some money.. or else you'll be spending near $300 bucks
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Kacee on Fri, 18 March 2011, 05:50:42: I'm trying to get one from Japan for about $180, no 87U available, but for $180 I think the 86U is hard to beat.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 18 March 2011, 06:33:21: I think any NIB Realforce below $200 is hard to beat. Where are you getting it from?
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Kacee on Fri, 18 March 2011, 06:42:21: Quote from: keyboardlover;313829
I think any NIB Realforce below $200 is hard to beat. Where are you getting it from?

I dont' know, my friend over there in Japan told me that, he's going back to Vietnam later this month and maybe he can take one with him back here.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Surly73 on Fri, 18 March 2011, 06:46:26: Quote from: BucklingSpring;313605
Ok then, I'm sold to your view. Topre are piece of sh!t keyboards and they really stinks in my collection.

I'm going to give them for free to the one I hate the most.

I think you look funny, and your mother wears army boots, and you smell.

Do you hate me enough to give me a Topre yet? :)
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Surly73 on Fri, 18 March 2011, 06:48:54: Quote from: Kacee;313815
I'm trying to get one from Japan for about $180, no 87U available, but for $180 I think the 86U is hard to beat.

Is anyone in Japan actually concentrating on selling (or making) luxury keyboards for foreigners right now?
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: gilgam on Fri, 18 March 2011, 07:51:01: Quote from: keyboardlover;313829
I think any NIB Realforce below $200 is hard to beat. Where are you getting it from?

Fukushima ?

Brand new, glow in the dark keyboard.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 18 March 2011, 07:57:06: That's was a disgusting joke. Shame on you!
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: gilgam on Fri, 18 March 2011, 08:39:01: Yes indeed

better laugh than cry...
"l'humour est le meilleur remède"
Humour is the best cure

For those interested in
http://www.irsn.fr/FR/popup/Pages/animation_doses_corps_thyroide_17mars.aspx

http://www.irsn.fr/FR/popup/Pages/animation_doses_corps_entiers_17mars.aspx

http://www.irsn.fr/FR/popup/Pages/animation_dispersion_rejets_17mars.aspx

Maybe Alaska and Hawai shouldn't take rain showers and eat lot of iode.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 18 March 2011, 08:42:31: Quote from: Surly73;313834
I think you look funny, and your mother wears army boots, and you smell.

How can I hate someone telling me the truth?
But this is weird, how do you know who I am?

Wait a second…OMG… Daddyyyyyyyyy? Where are you? I miss you so much
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 18 March 2011, 08:45:39: Quote from: gilgam;313865
Yes indeed

better laugh than cry...
"l'humour est le meilleur remède"
Humour is the best cure

Si au moin c'était drôle... De très mauvais goût ton truc. Tu devrais t'excuser.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 18 March 2011, 08:46:09: Laughing at a nuclear catastrophe is rude and inappropriate.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 18 March 2011, 08:49:16: Quote from: Surly73;313834
I think you look funny, and your mother wears army boots, and you smell.

Do you hate me enough to give me a Topre yet? :)

Btw gilgam is on my short list with his stupid Fukushima comment.
So you'll have to do better than that.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: gilgam on Fri, 18 March 2011, 09:01:54: Well

I don't agree, it must be bad joke indeed but
Setting up a nuclear plant in a well known sismic zone, with 3-4 tsunamis in 150 years. A nuclear plant which is unstoppable (this is how it works , you can only slow down the chain reaction) with about 70 Tons of fissile material, when the A bombs were only 15 kg each, IS a real joke ...
Energy is a drug, you will have to cope with the side-effects.

I love japan, learn japanese, went there twice and have good friends up there, so please keep your moral code for you.
subject closed.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 18 March 2011, 09:22:20: Quote from: gilgam;313879
Well

It must be bad joke indeed ... subject closed.

Btw I'm not talking about the idiots planting these bombs. I'm offended for the people suffering because of them. They are no laughing stock. I will not accept this weak diversion to shift the focus off your bad taste and I'm not going to close it until you apologize.

Try it…
I know it will hurt your ethic. But with that stupid joke of yours, allow me to question it.

... I feel better now. You can say whatever you want... I'm done.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 18 March 2011, 09:33:08: Quote from: BucklingSpring;313895
Btw I'm not talking about the idiots planting these bombs. I'm offended for the people suffering because of them. They are no laughing stock. I will not accept this weak diversion to shift the focus off your bad taste and I'm not going to close it until you apologize.

Try it…
I know it will hurt your ethic. But with that stupid joke of yours, allow me to question it.

... I feel better now. You can say whatever you want... I'm done.

+1
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 18 March 2011, 09:38:27: Quote from: RiGS;313870
Laughing at a nuclear catastrophe is rude and inappropriate.

Says the guy who doesn't like Jewish people. Although, I do agree on that.(the nuclear part).
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 18 March 2011, 10:17:53: I don't like gays, and gypsies either, but it doesn't mean I hate them.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Arcanius on Fri, 18 March 2011, 10:33:02: What's wrong with Jews and Gays and Gypsies?
I oppose the Zionist movement, but that doesn't come close to making me dislike Jews. I don't understand racism.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 18 March 2011, 10:57:21: Quote from: Arcanius;313926
What's wrong with Jews and Gays and Gypsies?
I oppose the Zionist movement, but that doesn't come close to making me dislike Jews. I don't understand racism.

Stupidity has no color, culture, religion, sex orientation or paycheck.
It's just an attribute to human nature. Some people master it more than other. They are just gifted.

I want the thread back.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 18 March 2011, 11:10:12: Well, read the Talmud and you will have a picture on the philosophy and ethics of the Jewish Religion, and then decide it for yourself.

There are a lot of Gypsies in Hungary. You should move here to understand it.

Also I'm not a big fan of the annual Gay Pride Parade, and the overwhelming media appearance of gay people. I think this disturbs the sexuality of children.

It is not about racism, and hate... Only dumb people think that.

(http://kuruc.info/galeriaN/egyeb/wikitravel2.PNG)
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Fri, 18 March 2011, 11:34:22: Quote from: RiGS;313950
Well, read the Talmud and you will have a picture on the philosophy and ethics of the Jewish Religion, and then decide it for yourself.

I decide that any human has the right to endorse or refuse any ideas and all adults should be accountable for the consequences of their actions.

I'm not questioning your judgment. Please return the favor.

We are far far away from the 86U vs 87U...
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 18 March 2011, 12:32:23: Wow, RiGS. Wow.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: XiP on Fri, 18 March 2011, 13:19:00: I was wondering what the differences were between the 86U and 87U as well and saw this thread :-)
I'm leaning more towards picking up an 86U since the extra features on the 87 don't really justify the price increase for me.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: ashort on Fri, 18 March 2011, 13:53:01: Quote from: Arcanius;313926
What's wrong with Jews and Gays and Gypsies?
I oppose the Zionist movement, but that doesn't come close to making me dislike Jews. I don't understand racism.
Individually, nothing, but don't get me started on gay, jewish, gypsies.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: ashort on Fri, 18 March 2011, 14:05:58: I was in a show choir in high school, but the approximately 2.35 minutes of my life that I have spent watching "Glee" is already far too much.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Sun, 20 March 2011, 09:33:12: The 86U has a longer spacebar than the 87U.
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: Kacee on Sun, 20 March 2011, 10:29:11: I don't really care, as long as the spacebar cover three spaces under BNM...

I ordered the 86U :D
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 20 March 2011, 10:30:45: Nice choice. Enjoy!
Title: Are the differents between Realforce 86U and 87U worth extra $80?
Post by: RiGS on Sun, 20 March 2011, 10:32:29: How much did that cost you?