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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: mrsone on Thu, 24 March 2011, 03:23:45

Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: mrsone on Thu, 24 March 2011, 03:23:45
I just got a shiny new Noppoo Choc Mini. I was fooling around with it in Notepad for some reason when I noticed that more of my inputs than usual were registering. Then I did the NKRO test here (http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/KeyboardGhostingDemo.mspx) and here (http://rollover.geekhack.org/) and found that the Noppoo Choc has full NKRO even on a USB connection. I didn't think this was possible.

I heard that the Thermaltake Meka G1 keyboard had this feature, too. So does anyone else know any keyboards that support NKRO on a USB connection?
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: Orphagn on Thu, 24 March 2011, 03:39:10
As far as I know, the Noppoo is the only tenkeyless with NKRO over USB.
That's one of the main reasons I really like it.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: bytemeavaj on Thu, 24 March 2011, 04:23:02
Quote from: Orphagn;317499
As far as I know, the Noppoo is the only tenkeyless with NKRO over USB.
That's one of the main reasons I really like it.


The Filco tenkeyless does as well. I think the Leopolds may as well (not sure).
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: Orphagn on Thu, 24 March 2011, 04:28:17
Didn't know that Filco tenkeyless were NKRO, I always ran mine using PS2. Then again I never tested for NKRO when I had a Filco.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: javifast on Thu, 24 March 2011, 04:50:31
I think Filcos are NKRO only with ps2.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: Heimdallr on Thu, 24 March 2011, 05:13:23
i think with USB you only get 6KRO.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 24 March 2011, 05:17:24
The Noppoo is full NKRO over USB, but it's done in a hackish way (AFAIK, the controller emulates three keyboards). One consequence of this is that it doesn't work with OS X.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: Mr. Perfect on Thu, 24 March 2011, 09:10:30
The Ducky year of the tiger special edition (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:15624) board is also NKRO using USB. The Microsoft x4 can hit 12KRO using USB, which is perfectly fine for ten fingered people.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: Ekaros on Thu, 24 March 2011, 09:21:00
Quote from: ch_123;317529
The Noppoo is full NKRO over USB, but it's done in a hackish way (AFAIK, the controller emulates three keyboards). One consequence of this is that it doesn't work with OS X.


Hmm so is it NKRO or 18KRO? ;D Quite intresting way ;D
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: Ekaros on Thu, 24 March 2011, 09:25:37
Quote from: ripster;317621
The Ducky G2 and Noppoo are made by the same OEM. Same failure mode in OSX.  Most likely the same controller and firmware.

I'd go for 6KRO with rock solid compatibility over NKRO any day.


I agree, 6KRO over some limited support hack...
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 24 March 2011, 09:25:46
Or use PS/2. That's what I do. :D
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 24 March 2011, 09:27:51
I use PS/2 on my G80-3494 (KL Kustom 1 (http://geekhack.org/picture.php?albumid=114&pictureid=675)) via my Thinkpad docking station.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: Laggy-gaga on Thu, 24 March 2011, 09:42:34
actually it is fake NKRO with USB
there is a conflict with "shift" (only in veryyyyyyyy fast typing speed)
Be honestly I don't quite understand the theory of that guys,
but the manufacturer had  admitted this problem.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 24 March 2011, 14:18:21
Quote from: ch_123;317529
The Noppoo is full NKRO over USB, but it's done in a hackish way (AFAIK, the controller emulates three keyboards). One consequence of this is that it doesn't work with OS X.


Does this hack introduce any additional lag?
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: mrsone on Thu, 24 March 2011, 15:57:53
Quote from: Ekaros;317620
Hmm so is it NKRO or 18KRO? ;D Quite intresting way ;D


When I did my "testing" I got 22 keys to register at once. I do not have a good testing apparatus to test all the keys at once, other than just dropping a book on the board.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: JBert on Thu, 24 March 2011, 17:19:18
Quote from: Ekaros;317620
Hmm so is it NKRO or 18KRO? ;D Quite intresting way ;D


18KRO would be "practically NKRO" in my book...
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 24 March 2011, 17:55:03
Are USB protocols predetermined once and for all or is it possible to write your own? In that case it shouldn't be too hard to just have a keyboard that acts as a regular keyboard in BIOS and then becomes some extended sort of keyboard when drivers are loaded.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: Ekaros on Thu, 24 March 2011, 18:20:36
Quote from: JBert;317952
18KRO would be "practically NKRO" in my book...


N must equal the amount of keys on board ;D Otherwise it's N>nKRO
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: panda-R on Thu, 24 March 2011, 18:30:04
Quote from: javifast;317517
I think Filcos are NKRO only with ps2.


the new filcos are NKRO over USB! HOT DOG!
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: bytemeavaj on Thu, 24 March 2011, 18:34:32
Quote from: javifast;317517
I think Filcos are NKRO only with ps2.


Quote from: Heimdallr;317526
i think with USB you only get 6KRO.


What are you guys talking about? Filco is NKRO through USB.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: bytemeavaj on Thu, 24 March 2011, 18:37:34
My bad, I used the notepad example and "thought" my Filco was NKRO through USB.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: killy on Thu, 24 March 2011, 21:28:29
I just held both shift keys down and typed out 'the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.' No problem.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: JBert on Sun, 27 March 2011, 15:19:53
Quote from: PrinsValium;317981
Are USB protocols predetermined once and for all or is it possible to write your own? In that case it shouldn't be too hard to just have a keyboard that acts as a regular keyboard in BIOS and then becomes some extended sort of keyboard when drivers are loaded.
Actually, if the BIOS has properly implemented USB HID it would ask the keyboard to switch to "legacy mode" while the normal mode could use a NKRO protocol.

Sadly, BIOSes and OS drivers may not implement USB HID properly, hence why keyboard manufacturers choose the safe route by using the legacy protocol all around.
Title: NKRO with USB?
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 28 March 2011, 14:50:19
Quote from: JBert;319685
Actually, if the BIOS has properly implemented USB HID it would ask the keyboard to switch to "legacy mode" while the normal mode could use a NKRO protocol.

Sadly, BIOSes and OS drivers may not implement USB HID properly, hence why keyboard manufacturers choose the safe route by using the legacy protocol all around.


A simple case of everyone following their own standard then, no big surprise I guess.