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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Garpetun on Sun, 27 March 2011, 10:54:26

Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: Garpetun on Sun, 27 March 2011, 10:54:26: Hi, short-time lurker, first time poster here!
I recently bought a Zowie Celeritas, and it satisfies my every need, there is this one problem that I have encountered though, and I've read about many people having the same.

I'm talking about the space bar. It's 1 brown switch with two smaller black switches on the sides, and this I think would perform well if it wasn't for there being no "springythingy" under the black switches. When I looked inside the keyboard I tried to press them, and they wouldn't come back up. This results in the space bar being pushed up soleey by the force of one brown switch, and the two black switches doing nothing but weighing the space bar down.

So my questions are as following:

Is this normal for space bars in mechanical keyboards, or are the support-switches supposed to actually press upwards, which would make sense?

Is this covered as a faulty product or should I have been aware of this behaviour? I knew some had a problem with their space bar, but I wouldn't imagine it being of this magnitude.

And lastly, is there any alternatives to fixing this? Because I really enjoy this keyboard, the space bar is bugging me out though. I'm thinking like replacing the small black switches.

Much love,
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 27 March 2011, 10:59:41: Welcome to GeekHack! The two black things that look like switches and the springy thing that connects them are called a Stabilizer. Their purpose is to "stabilize" the key and every keyboard has them on various keys like Enter, spacebar, shift and backspace.

So for example, if you took the stabilizer out completely, that'd fix your issue, but when you hit it too much from the right, it would go down too much/too fast on the right, likewise on the left. You could then resolve that by replacing your spacebar with some other key, like a right shift (which is about the size of space bar keys on japanese layouts).
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: Garpetun on Sun, 27 March 2011, 11:06:01: Quote from: keyboardlover;319549
Welcome to GeekHack! The two black things that look like switches and the springy thing that connects them are called a Stabilizer. Their purpose is to "stabilize" the key and every keyboard has them on various keys like Enter, spacebar, shift and backspace.

So for example, if you took the stabilizer out completely, that'd fix your issue, but when you hit it too much from the right, it would go down too much/too fast on the right, likewise on the left. You could then resolve that by replacing your spacebar with some other key, like a right shift (which is about the size of space bar keys on japanese layouts).

Oh, okay. Thanks for the info. So it's usual for space buttons to have stabilizers that doesn't actually help holding the key up? Because as it is now sometimes it gets stuck in "pressed-mode" due to the force of the brown switch not being enough, carrying up the stablizers. I understand the purpose of them, but shouldn't they give some support? Also, why don't they just use 3 switches instead of 1 and 2 stabilizers?

Lastly, where can I get special keycaps, so that I get that juicy extra large shift-key?

thanks,
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 27 March 2011, 11:08:09: I would post a WTB (Want To Buy) in the Classifieds Forum. (http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=59) I'm sure someone would be able to help you out =)
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: Garpetun on Sun, 27 March 2011, 11:30:45: Quote from: keyboardlover;319559
I would post a WTB (Want To Buy) in the Classifieds Forum. (http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=59) I'm sure someone would be able to help you out =)

Thanks, I'll check that out. What I wanna know beforehand though, is if the stabilizers should work like they are doing on this keyboard. Shouldn't they give some kind of support?
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 27 March 2011, 11:33:46: I guess I'm not exactly clear on your issue with it. Is it that the spacebar is too slow to come back up after bottoming out? Or are you accidentally hitting the spacebar down too often? If that's the case, that's the normal behavior of a brown switch when used on the space bar unfortunately.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: Garpetun on Sun, 27 March 2011, 14:46:22: Quote from: keyboardlover;319585
I guess I'm not exactly clear on your issue with it. Is it that the spacebar is too slow to come back up after bottoming out? Or are you accidentally hitting the spacebar down too often? If that's the case, that's the normal behavior of a brown switch when used on the space bar unfortunately.

Well I checked my right shift key and it had the same stabilizers, only these were stuck in place, and not able to go up and down, thus removing the problem of them weighing the key down.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 27 March 2011, 14:49:23: I dunno...THAT makes it sound like your space bar stabilizer is messed up.

I would contact Zowie and tell this issue. See what the say. Maybe they will RMA it.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: Garpetun on Sun, 27 March 2011, 15:18:56: Quote from: ripster;319673
Could be a simple as just reseating the key.

See this Cherry MX Key Removal Guide (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12649) for lots of pics and possible failure modes.

When you say reseating, do you mean just removing the keycap and putting it back on, or do you mean removing the stabilizers and putting them back on? Because when just reseating the keycap it works wonders until i press the space button a little bit harder, thus making the slots in the keycap entering the black stabilizers, and then it's hard to get up again.

also this keyboards space bar doesn't have stabilizers like those in the pictures, it's made out of two black MX-like switches that's seated on the keyboard itself. (and the metal bar is under a layer of plastic (near the circuts))
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 27 March 2011, 15:33:10: He means just removing the keycap and putting it back on. But yea, if you did that and it's still weird I would contact Zowie.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: Garpetun on Sun, 27 March 2011, 15:37:14: Quote from: keyboardlover;319692
He means just removing the keycap and putting it back on. But yea, if you did that and it's still weird I would contact Zowie.

I have send an RMA application, thanks! Quick question though, I have never RMA:d anything before, do I just send it back in and get it replaced, do I have to pay the shipping or how does it work?
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 27 March 2011, 15:38:15: Good luck, let us know how you make out.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: Hak Foo on Mon, 28 March 2011, 02:08:09: I haven't RMA'd their stuff, but IME with other stuff, the retailer or manufacturer usually expects you to cover the cost to send the defective one in.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: Lanx on Mon, 28 March 2011, 08:10:24: usual rma is, you send them the packaging info, you pay for the packaging/shipping, you wait till it get's to them. They verify that it qualifies for RMA, they then ask for your credit card to charge you shipping for a replacement.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: thuNDa on Tue, 07 June 2011, 07:03:37: i received my celeritas today, and the spacebar was sticking down too.

The reason i found is, that the space keycap is not straight, even tho it seems to be the very same keycap which u can find on the ss 6gv2 which doesn't have that problem.

http://thunda.imgur.com/zowiefail
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: mbc on Tue, 07 June 2011, 17:27:11: Had the same problem.
You need to write to the zowie support and they send you a new working spacebar instantly.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: thuNDa on Wed, 08 June 2011, 06:59:44: Quote from: mbc;356966
Had the same problem.
You need to write to the zowie support and they send you a new working spacebar instantly.

ye, i did so yesterday already, but havn't heard anything from them yet.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: nrd on Tue, 02 August 2011, 09:22:25: Received my Zowie Celeritas today, same problem here.

It was very bad for the first minutes of playing around with it (space bar coming back up veeery slowly or not at all after being pressed), but now after a few minutes of typing, it's only half as bad. Still, the space bar is obviously bent upwards, feels a little "lazy" and sometimes produces double spaces... I've contacted the Zowie support through their website, described the problem and asked for a replacement key instead of RMAing the keyboard as a whole, hopefully it won't take too long for them to get back to me...

Apart from that it's a really nice keyboard (only the LEDs and the handling of the LEDs is screwed up, don't know what their designers were thinking when they put that together... but I wanted to replace/remove them anyway) - my first mechanical one, and I'm loving it! :hail:
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: nrd on Sun, 07 August 2011, 15:20:46: Got the reply today:
Quote
Please give me your name, address and phone number. Then we will send you a new spacebar.

Best regards
Well - that was simple... Looks like I picked the right company :)
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 08 August 2011, 14:31:02: Quote from: ripster;356974
If you don't mind I'm using your spacebar pics in the Key Reference Wiki. Leopold also shares that same spacebar (meaning you can't replace it with most upgrade key sets).
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3IrELh.jpg)

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=17791&d=1304138429)
The SteelSeries 7G spacebar seems to be the same as the bottom of the 2 in the bottom picture. SteelSeries uses Cherry keys and stabilizers correct?
now im really hoping that Qtan got my order right...
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 08 August 2011, 14:49:44: Quote
I suspect something similar is going on with the Razer Black Widow and Xarmor when the spacebar sticks.

The spacebar's mechanism of Xarmor and BW is way better than the one found on filcos and lookalike, no sticking, less wobbling, no rattling, no unwanted sounds at all.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 08 August 2011, 15:03:17: Quote from: ripster;395306
While The Solutor continues his anti-Filco rambling with no details or citations let me say...

I post just facts as I'm used to.

Have you ever tried a BW or an Xarmor ?
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: TheProfosist on Mon, 08 August 2011, 15:18:05: Quote from: ripster;395306
While The Solutor continues his anti-Filco rambling with no details or citations let me say...

Should be on the 7G.
(Attachment) 23574[/ATTACH]

CLOSE but not quite on the 6G.
(Attachment) 23573[/ATTACH]
i know about the problem with the L enter key on the 7G my way around it was just to use a regular enter and make the top of the enter where backslash should be a dead key (put the regular sized backslash there just as a placeholder). then get 2 extra keys for backspace and backslash

i didnt know that they changed the layout on the 6Gv2. i would have to say bad call. if they were going to do anything they should have just reverted it back to default layout. Getting replacement keys for the 6Gv2 must be even harder than the 7G as they have started having 7G sets on TaoBao though i believe only ABS so far. Though with the 6Gv2 you might be able to use backslash for right shift as the length would be right but the height would be wrong.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 08 August 2011, 16:10:40: Quote from: ripster;395312
Facts and The Solutor rarely go together.

Hahaha.

In three months you've never managed to spot a single wrong thing i wrote, while I did it continuously with what you wrote. :pound:

Facts again.
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: Garpetun on Mon, 08 August 2011, 16:12:06: Yeah I got it RMA:d, and replaced with a perfectly functional space-bar, and the support was top notch aswell! Thanks for the help again, guys. (I did this a long time ago I just completely forgot to report it until I saw my thread bumped)
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: nrd on Wed, 14 September 2011, 11:21:14: Quote from: nrd;394752
Got the reply today:
Well - that was simple... Looks like I picked the right company :)
New space bar came in today (in a tiny padded envelope - just the space bar and nothing else). Took a "little" longer than expected and I got so used to the old key that I didn't even bother about it anymore... But now that I swapped them, it's a difference like night and day! No more odd spaces at the beginning of words (as in "o dd s paces") and no more double spaces, yay!
Title: Zowie Celeritas space bar
Post by: FSund on Fri, 13 April 2012, 15:20:19: Just got a Zowie Celeritas Pro today, and it had the same issue with the space bar. I took it off, and it was not straight at all. Luckily I also got a set of white keycaps with my board, and the space keycap from that was straight. I sent an email to Zowie anyway, as I would like to have a working black one as well.

EDIT: Just realized this is a pretty old thread. Sorry about bumping it without really adding much to it!