I see no macro keys, good.
Lighting seems to be too clean looking, probably rendered.
Which switch indeed... Don't think they will go for blues, I'd even go as far and say no other gamer oriented keyboard will use blues besides the Black Widow(xarmor is the same, whatever).
I'm a psychic, what can I say :P
Of course this will be a perfect opportunity to invalidate all my speculations!
I assume some other people got this in a PM?
This is all i can say right now....
- Black Cherry MX mechanical key switches
- Backlit key illumination
- Plug n PlayShow Image(http://i.imgur.com/XfRtUl.jpg)
I assume some other people got this in a PM?PM on geekhack? from a Mionix rep?
PM on geekhack? from a Mionix rep?
I get the email newsletters, which is where I found out about this to post the thread, but no other email updates as yet.
the PM came from this user.
http://geekhack.org/member.php?u=9336
it came from mionix!Thanks for the confirmation. I guess you guys got the PM as you were more positive than I was about the announcement.
We are new as a user to this forum and we were afraid of that people won't take a user called Mionix serious posting info that no one has access to...It's all good when you're clearly identifying who you are and listening to feedback. It's only the shills who need to worry.
... or annoyed anyone...
Your help and feedback is really important to usDeskthority (http://deskthority.net/) is a recently created forum by geekhack members. You could sign up there as well as there is a slightly stronger European bias.
Your help and feedback is really important to us
If you could offer an MX Clear board, that should sell much better than either. They are hard to find and right now the only option to buy new MX Clears is through Deck, where the board costs $180 dollars.
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/XfRtUl.jpg)
I like the color of the backlighting. I wonder what the cost on this is going to be.
Some letters are centered on the keys and others aren't.
I would buy this without hesitation if it uses the same matte rubber as the Naos 5000.
Something tells me this keyboard will look better than the Razer Black Widow, Xarmor U9BL and Deck Legend COMBINED!
I would buy this without hesitation if it uses the same matte rubber as the Naos 5000.
I am really stoked for this board. It looks comfortable
Have you actually seen the whole keyboard?
Ooh, looks interesting :D
I hope it will be good as I'm getting a mech soon, and this might be one to concider buying :)
Oh, hi everyone on this forum!
I like this forum, it has alot of good threads and the wiki is great, i've learned lots of things the days I've been here :)
Does anyone know what the cost on this is going to be?
Less than 5 hours to go....
We will be online here for any questions you have after the launch, we cannot wait for your opinions on the Zibal 60
Less than 5 hours to go....
We will be online here for any questions you have after the launch, we cannot wait for your opinions on the Zibal 60
As of now, when I look at your site, the countdown says 9hours.
I guess I'm getting jetlagged.
I like countdowns!!
Not basing it on GMT was pretty stupid Mionix. And people call AMERICANS self centered.
Are you a member of the Flat Earth Society?
Are you a member of the Flat Earth Society?
mine just changed to two hours lol
But... what happens when the clock hits 0?
At Zero Hour it's PARTY PARTY PARTY!
At Zero Hour it's PARTY PARTY PARTY!Show Image(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QCcMTHCBJ4c/TQLtWhYphgI/AAAAAAAADl0/6hm5c6VJ73A/s1600/Meanwhile_in_Sweden.jpg)
Too bad that the led's are made of emerald and the pricetag is over 9000
Show Image(http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/6869862/MEANWHILE-In-Sweden.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Meanwhile)
This is seriously reducing my chance of getting a pimp review blogger "sample" but what do I care. I turned down a free Ducky review sample so I could trash the keyboard and IT WAS TOTALLY WORTH IT!
ripster!
No pictures of my family please..... were just getting the sauna hot now ready for the launch
sweating like a blind lesbian at the fish market
I'm awake now.
30 mins to go[......]
Just an xarmor with green leds and black switches, as expected...
It does look like one but comes with two USB connectors and Six Key Rollover
The XArmor comes with PS2 & USB with NKRO on PS2 and 6KRO when on USB.
I like the green.
You can download hi res pictures at the gallery on the bottom of the homepage!
Resolution of the pics is rather low... It's hard to see well
Is this available in ISO (UK) layout ?
Any software?
Fully Plug n Play no software needed
What layouts will be there for the release?
Yep, DEFINITELY looks better than the Razer, Xarmor and Deck Legend.
Combined.
I think Ripster is referring to macro software a la Razer Black Widow range.
US, UK, DE and Nordic for the first batch then SP, FR, R, CN....
That is one ugly inverted T legend set.
Rage proof durability... marketing is on the ball for the tweener market.
@Mionix
Does it keeps its LED's setup between reboots?
Deck does
XArmor doesn't
Will there be a "light" version for those who don't want/need the USB and audio ports?
I am assuming the left windows key has been replaced with a function type key allowing media control via the F keys ?
Also what are the F11 and F12 function options. LED brightness maybe on F11, F12 ?
tag line
The tag line is a elemental part of Mionix logotype. The
tag line should not be used as a single element with
the exepction of a footer or header in documents.
BTW, no switch choice, no ISO layout nor nationalized version, no additional features, like an handy volume knob.
Its only advantage is the availability in Europe and the black switches (which i don't like) are a good choice for gamers.
What layout are you looking for? What switch do you prefer?
Not being pedantic but the excerpt below taken from the downloaded Zibal presskit on your website has a mistake as shown below in bold.
Mionix - graphical profile v1.pdf
That wrist rest is removable right?
The Zibal 60 has no memory so I cannot see how it would remember what colour mode it was in, and it is so easy to change stuff on the keyboard itself.
I think that red swtches would have been the best choice ever for fps gamers that also want to use it as a real keyboard. Not so many people like Black switches.
Again the same question: no plan for any other kind of switches? Red or Clear ? (or brown at the limit)
Well, the Deck has no memory either but will maintain its state as long as there is power. Most computers today keep their ports powered even when the computer is off.
Both XArmor and Deck remain lit when the computer is turned off. But the XArmor shots the del off as soon as Windows restarts.
Am I right to think the Zibal will behave like the XArmor?
Sorry we in a funny mood here today
@Mionix
Will it have NKRO if you plug it in with a USB -> PS/2 adapter?
Left "windows key" has been replaced by the Mionix Action key which allows access to all media and function keys
F12 changes the lighting modes On, Off and WASD
Light meaning it could fly?
XArmor is only a generic keyboard with a label stickt on it. It's the same as the QPad keyboard and some other ones. I don't give a sh.. to generic keyboard not developped by the brand itself.
Actually the microcontroller has some extra memory.
When dealing with your engineers remember they often lie.Show Image(http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/100000/00000/3000/400/103417/103417.strip.gif)
Light, lite, call it whatever you want. Basically a stripped down version of it. Like the Razer Blackwidow, there's the regular version with no backlight, USB ports or audio jacks and the ultimate version with those features. Will there be a Z60 without the USB ports and audio jacks, and no backlight if necessary, on it in the future? To me those features are useless and only result in a cost that is higher than I'd be interested in paying for a board that will only be used every now and then.
Hmmm, I may well be in the minority but I use my left windows key a lot.
Although I hated with a passion the Razer keyboard I had a while back it was a nice feature being able to disable and enable the left windows key rather than removing the possibility altogether.
In saying that the board looks good. Backlit, cherry black and ISO UK were the main features I was looking for in adding to my ever expanding mechanical keyboard collection.
The question is do I want to pay 150 Euros, at this point I am not sure.
I cannot say anything about our future plans sorry...
Well wait for the reviews to persuade you...
Also, every 'mainstream' manufacturer has a full size keyboard...why don't you come out with a tenkeyless keyboard? Tenkeyless with a Filco build quality and green backlighting I'd gladly pay $160 for!
@Mionix
Will it have NKRO if you plug it in with a USB -> PS/2 adapter?
Is there really no light leakage around the keys on this board or are these pics 'shopped?
Is there really no light leakage around the keys on this board or are these pics 'shopped?
The images are real photographs touched up slighty, light leakage is very very low.... wait for the reviews then you will see
Send a sample to Ripster for review. He already said he likes yours better then XArmor and Deck.
that is a cool keyboard, sad i missed the drop to 0
We didn't invite you to the party
Yeah, but I tell the truth.
Not the best Keyboard Blogger reviewer.
Still we don't have the answer to the question if it's a full Mionix developped product or a rebranded and repacked generic...
Why do you give a f*** who manufactured it? I don't think you guys understand how products are made.
I really like the feature to light only the WASD keys. Wonder if they will include a program to do pick any keys we want backlit.
That would be totally tubular
Not likely. That's a whole lot more complicated than 2 strings of leds and some logic to turn them on together or separately.
+Bump
The pressrelease
"unveiled the Mionix™ Zibal 60, a mechanical keyboard developed for the gamer that deserves the best.
"I believe it is an artform to building keyboards, that are not just for gaming but also compromise free and simple in design. The high attention to detail and subtle features are going to be loved by our loyal users”, says Calle Conradsson, Mionix.
@Mionix - Once again is the Zibal designed/developed by Mionix or is it an existing product with a Mionix shell?
We develop what needs to be developed and not try reinvent the wheel. We put our efforts and resources into building the best mechanical keyboard for the price.
So in other words; it's a rebrand?
you mean gates?
What layout are you looking for? What switch do you prefer?
You know a LOT of keyboards start to look alike.
Have you thought of the idea that they may have an inhouse design team?
Why the fascination with the idea of who makes it?
I rarely see this level of discussion about which manufacturer made the ASUS P8P67 Rev3 motherboard.
Why the fascination with the idea of who makes it?
I rarely see this level of discussion about which manufacturer made the ASUS P8P67 Rev3 motherboard.
So in other words; it's a rebrand?
No not a rebrand at all.... We have developed many of the technologies of this keyboard ourselves but we do have very few shared components. We did not choose this keyboard on a shelf and slap a sticker on it.... we have been developing this for nearly a year.
Developing a keyboard is a little special... the only good example is that its similar to how VW Golf and the Audi A3 are built.
Thank you for clarifying, I think this should ease my fascination for a moment.
Like the sticker under the iPad?but Apple are in a whole different ball park, it's not even the same game...
No not a rebrand at all.... We have developed many of the technologies of this keyboard ourselves but we do have very few shared components. We did not choose this keyboard on a shelf and slap a sticker on it.... we have been developing this for nearly a year.
Developing a keyboard is a little special... the only good example is that its similar to how VW Golf and the Audi A3 are built.
You know a LOT of keyboards start to look alike.
Have you thought of the idea that they may have an inhouse design team?
Why the fascination with the idea of who makes it?
I rarely see this level of discussion about which manufacturer made the ASUS P8P67 Rev3 motherboard.
You spelled aesthetic wrong btw. Usually I don't point out typos but aesthetic ones bug me.
Ripster people want to know that its not some business guys with fat wallets and big sticker transfers to slap on cheap products with 1000% mark up.....
That is not the Mionix way....
that answers my question. It's a real Mionix Keyboard, just like the Zowie or the Razer ones, and unlike QPAD and XArmor.
Thus that's becoming interesting. Too bad it's about black switches. Black switches are only for fps usage, so why not developping only a tenkeyless as these numpads useless for that gaming usage ? Moreover it would have been a bit more compact and better looking IMHO.
I agree on the black switches. I'd like a board with blacks to pull out for FPS gaming, but for that use this is just too expensive. Which is a shame, because from what I've seen it looks smooth. A tenkeyless without the USB and audio jacks would be just perfect, especially if they'd come in several switch flavours.
Wait till you try Cherry MX Red keys. Then you will be craving Blacks, at least you will if the Reds are too light for you. Or you may not crave them at all.
It could be just my case because I consider myself flaggelum
that answers my question. It's a real Mionix Keyboard, just like the Zowie or the Razer ones, and unlike QPAD and XArmor.
I have a board with blacks here, can't use it though as it's quite old and I'd have to build a converter from scratch. But when trying to type on it they feel just so heavy. I can't imagine using them for anything other than FPS gaming. Even my blues feel light compared to them.
I rarely see this level of discussion about which manufacturer made the ASUS P8P67 Rev3 motherboard.
What is your source of the Ione info? Citation please.
If I am not mistaken, blues should definitely be lighter than the Blacks.
It's a good work out, my first board was a Cherry MX black one. I'll see if I have the finger strength to go back.
__________________
In rehab for threadcrapping
Aren't the blues 55cN while the blacks are 60? that's not really much we're talking about. I'd say the browns are perfect for me, though I do like blues because they're extremely fun to type on due to the sound and tactility, which also makes it great for RTS games.
Only problem with browns is that they feel too light in FPS games, not a problem for gameplay but I feel that I'm pressing them too hard all the time, so heavy blacks would be great.
What is your source of the Ione info? Citation please.
What is your source of the Ione info? Citation please.
Anyway. The Zebal starts shipping in June. I wonder when the so called "reviewers" will start getting their hands on it.
Definitely clears, also blues (blues usually are not meant for gamers, but a backlit keyboard is very useful for a lot of not gamer/light gamer people).
About the layout, the ISO layout is already an huge step for all the mankind, and UK is nice for me, but Italy lacks of mechs with the Italian layout, so wold be nice to have it.
Made a Clear switches keyboard, ISO, UK or IT and I'll order it tonight. :smile:
Geekhack thankyou .... I hope we managed to answer some of your questions, I will keep my eye on this thread but for now we need beer and were off to the sauna
Geekhack thankyou .... I hope we managed to answer some of your questions, I will keep my eye on this thread but for now we need beer and were off to the sauna
What a lousy source of info.
whats your problem, they wrote it there on the forum, i cant find the thread anymore but i thought that would be clear that razer let build their BW from Ione...
At Geekhack you shouldn't make wild claims without being able to back them up.
Did you do term papers with citations like this?
Yes allways, thats my way of doing things... but since that off topic and we should mess this thread any futher... i keep quiet now
Did you do term papers with citations like this?
Yes, thank you Mionix for taking time to love us.
In other words the keys prove nothing.
Citation please.
@Mionix
Will it have NKRO if you plug it in with a USB -> PS/2 adapter?
Great question, I will check it out and come back to you
The problem is Razer never wrote such a thing.
Here is the sole post made by Razer. (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=219462&postcount=318)
At Geekhack you shouldn't make wild claims without being able to back them up.
Unveiled today apparently:
http://www.mionix.net/page.php?al=zibal60
Did he go that far?
I like the answers we got and I'm pretty sure I will order one sooner or later. I'm not familiar with the Mionix brand and or their QC.
I have been burned so many times for been an early adopter. It's not like I'm in need for another keyboard so I'll probably wait for a rev or two before spitting the cash at it.
I also like the fact that they will be releasing it in many regional layouts.
@Mionix - will the FR going to be AZERTY (France) or QWERTY (French Canada)?
i read it here on the forum, razers black widow is made by IOne ... and the Xarmor were there before the black widow and me and some on this forum say razer just rebranded it
You know he's sitting back and thinking... "**** it's just keyboards."
Their logo looks like an athletic cup. Does the keyboard come with free joxygen (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=joxygen)?Show Image(http://www.mionix.net/skins/mionix/img/top_h_1.png)Show Image(http://www.amas.net/CU/CU_athletic_cup.jpg)
So anyway, back to the real stuff.
What about working with PS/2? I suspect not (LED power and PS/2 is older than Grandma) but inquiring minds at OCN want to know.Show Image(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5148/5610625434_2c062953a6_z.jpg)
So anyway, back to the real stuff.
What about working with PS/2? I suspect not (LED power requirements, the spec sheet says USB needed, and PS/2 is older than Grandma) but inquiring minds at OCN want to know.
The second USB has to power the hub. And rather poorly I might add.
We'll see what Mionix says. Pretty simple to find out.
My bet it is USB only. Many modern keyboards are.
It's clearly labeled on the USB cable ends. Keyboard and Hub.
Do you know if and how the BWU works ?
USB is a fine interface. Recommend it everywhere.
any idea what the UK price will be? I hope it's not the usual $-£ conversion we seem to get stuck with on gaming products...
Big difference. Thermaltake is butt Taiwanese Design ugly. Mionix is not.
Plus I'm looking forward to some non-Asian booth babes for a change.
Big difference. Thermaltake is butt Taiwanese Design ugly. Mionix is not.Had to edit my post, I was writing about the Z60 v MX-80 in response to Gravityjay. Although I agree about Thermaltake, one of the brands with the worst looking PC components and peripherals.
Meanwhile at Unicomp....Is Unicomp stuff new? I thought they sold stuff salvaged from skips and dumpsters
Had to edit my post, I was writing about the Z60 v MX-80 in response to Gravityjay. Although I agree about Thermaltake, one of the brands with the worst looking PC components and peripherals.
A (usually expensive) store in Germany has the Mionix Zibal for €130, so that would put it in the £110-£115 range. However the nasty looking Qpad is only £100 at a UK store (also one that likes to rip off customers with above average prices, so I refuse to post their name or give a link) Razer Black Widow Ultimate is £108 from Amazon UK.
Therefore I think £100-£115 is the most likely price range, but if other stores start selling the Qpad for less then maybe the Mionix street price will dip into the £90-£100 range. I wouldn't count on it though, the Mionix mice are still some of the most expensive available relative to their immediate competition.
At the moment I'm getting pretty annoyed with the constant Euros= Dollars idea that a lot of manufacturers seem to have...
If anyone has some economics insight about that, I would love to know moreIt's mostly about charging whatever price you think you can get away with in any given market. In Japan they used to have a nickname for the UK: 'Treasure Island' - because they were able to charge silly mark up on products. For the most part customers don't know any better so didn't complain. Of course now almost everyone has Internet access and price comparisons are a click away, but the businesses whine and ***** about how their easy profits are being eroded and they have to compete in what is now a worldwide marketplace. So they lobby for restrictive import controls and try to contractually force their distributors and retailers to only sell in their own region.
Except the logo kinda looks like a scrotum.I saw that while looking for an image of the keyboard, and I literally laughed out loud after looking at my mouse.
There is one thing that bothers me about this keyboard and it's the off centered arrows and lettering on big keys such as tab, caps lock, both shifts, enter, and backspace...
...other letters such as AF are to the right. WTF?
Is it a rough prototype? optical illusion?
There is one thing that bothers me about this keyboard and it's the off centered arrows and lettering on big keys such as tab, caps lock, both shifts, enter, and backspace. I find it incredibly annoying and bad looking when they are put all to the bottom edge or top edge of a key. I'm guessing this is for LED reasons.
EDIT: I just noticed one more thing that is annoying the hell out of me. Letters such as QWER blah blah are centered, and other letters such as AF are to the right. WTF? I'm so OCD I'd be the worst quality assurance guy. (Or would it technically be the best?)Show Image(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3360/zibal60topblackbg.jpg)
I saw that while looking for an image of the keyboard, and I literally laughed out loud after looking at my mouse.
Look at the 0 key on the 10key place, wat?
Actually on every backlit Cherry MX keyboard I've seen the MX switch is mounted upside down. Puts the LED on top under the Lettering.
Other trivia is the Filco ISO version does the same for the \ key. Weird.
The KBDmania forum members probably think this makes a difference in feel.
Isn't that because the letter is usually on the top of the key?
I wanted black cherry, but I got upside down black cherry instead :(
This thread needs swedish blonde booth babes!Show Image(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5055/5503064164_aacc3955ca_b.jpg)
Mionix is USB only with 6+4KRO.
http://www.overclock.net/13172743-post86.htm
Damn I'm good.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?16934-Mionix-Zibal-60-Z60-gaming-keyboard-with-backlit-keys&p=331503&viewfull=1#post331503
I'll put it in the NKRO wiki after a Geekhacker confirms with testing.
You missed his response.
EDIT: Spoke too soon. I forgot the L in HTML. That is about the extent of my HTML coding expertise. Fixed.
Hum... It's an indirect answer. I like them better when there is no room for interpretation. (Eg do not work with PS2 adaptor or the use of a PS2 adaptor will not improve KRO)
Ok just so were clear.... Does not work with PS2 adaptor only six key rollover via USB
I'd assume this is more than necessary for most gamers; I think the whole NKRO thing is just overkill. Only Dr. Octopus could make use of NKRO...
Upside down switches
I don't think this has been asked yet - how durable are the key caps? Will owners see big blobs of light instead of letters in 6 months (from the coating/etc rubbing away the legends)?
Very clear. Some of our members do not speak English as first language. Some only speak lolspeak for that matter. Like Runeazn.
Ripster is right!
Good to hear.
Razer Lycossa.Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=13569&d=1290160331)
When does your job start?
You're starting to get annoying.
I like when the Razer marketing guys said a backlit keyboard shouldn't cost an arm (clearly pointing finger at Decks).
At the end, Razer's were not cheaper by much (financially speaking) then this is what you get for 50$ less?
I'm really looking forward to the Zibal 60.
But it looks like that Zibal 60 uses silimar materials as the Razer's keycaps. So I doubt the durability of Zibal's keycaps too.
A handful of LED's and a USB hub shouldn't cost $50
True but good material and QC does. That's why I think a Deck worth much more than 50$ over a 130$ Razer.
Which actually makes a Deck a good deal.
Quality wise a Backlit Razer should have cost no more than 60$.
I leave Mionix the benefit of the doubt. The brand is also known for making quality products.
Time will tell. The first Zibal reviews will not reveal the paint quality but thousands of hours of game play will eventually. By then we will be able to compare apple to apple. Unless of course you can do mass spectrometry based on pictures like lzf929.
A handful of LED's and a USB hub shouldn't cost $50
This one basically looks like a Thermaltake Meka G1 keyboard + Keycaps similar to Razer BW or Xarmor U9BL.
I'm with you with the Meka G1, the Zibal seams to share the same platform. Just like the Saab 9-2X did with a Subaru WRX. But the mold for the covers and keycaps is where the company can go as wild as it wants. Mionix added backlit to it and God knows what they used for the keycaps. I couldn't care less about the covers.
I know Razer quickly wear over time. I don't know yet about the XArmor and I know for sure Deck doesn't. But the Deck durable keycap design made it esthetically challenged and prone to light bleeding. Again, will Mionix provide the best of both world: Look and durability? Once again, future will tell. At first glance, they certainly got the look right.
I would buy the Mionix instant if they build one with brown or clear switches and not the blacks. :(
I can answer all their future plans.
I cannot say anything about our future plans sorry...
I cannot say anything about our future plans sorry...
Are you planing on introducing other color LED lights?
Ok im gonna answer this one not with a corporate answer.... :tongue1:
Multi color LEDs are too big to fit the switches, we tried to get around this many ways but we have to wait for either a new style multi color led to be smaller and not too expensive or we can modify the switch to take a larger LED. From what we know there is no RGB LED that fits a switch
Ok im gonna answer this one not with a corporate answer.... :tongue1:
Multi color LEDs are too big to fit the switches, we tried to get around this many ways but we have to wait for either a new style multi color led to be smaller and not too expensive or we can modify the switch to take a larger LED. From what we know there is no RGB LED that fits a switch
Yeah, some kind of replaceable LEDs sitting in a socket. And Mionix could sell or retail these LEDS as 105Leds-package for color customization (after market)
Mionix would be LEDing the market.
Show Image(http://vcclite.com/wp-content/files/standoff.jpg)
I was thinking of something along these lines but I'm not sure they make them small enough.
(the 3mm multi-colored LEDs would be nice too, but you can't blame Monix for not using it when no company seems to make them)Besides sourcing the LEDs, another problem is the Cherry MX switch only has holes for 2 LED leads. I'm pretty sure current RGB LEDs require 4 leads. So a keyboard designer would have to get creative about how the LEDs are mounted and wired.
I have to be honest, soldering in some new switches is looking like an increasingly appealing option, especially if some LED ready ones can be found. I actually posted a thread about the prospects and one of the wonderful members here responded with a link to a tutorial. Go take a few soldering classes and give it a shot. it's a skill well worth your time anyways.
The thing is though that Color-change aside, This keyboard had MOST everything I was looking for.
Xarmor (which uses blue keys anyways to my knowledge)
See, I was going to argue that the main selling point (for me at least) was the braided cord and metal case.
1.6 mm thick steel frame
See when I think frame, I generally think of the case
But yeah if it is plastic like the xarmor then it's hard to see the advantage for the new Mionix board.
C
Still I will say that I hope Mionix takes the mechanical keyboard ideas and runs with them. This is a nice board, but still really close to the Xarmor in most ways, and honestly considering the company's rep with gaming mice I really hope they come up with some new, fun innovations
Mionix.
Any news???
At least update with Keyboard Babe pics please.Show Image(http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/editorial/cebit2008-5/roccat3_sm.jpg)
Ok im gonna answer this one not with a corporate answer.... :tongue1:
Multi color LEDs are too big to fit the switches, we tried to get around this many ways but we have to wait for either a new style multi color led to be smaller and not too expensive or we can modify the switch to take a larger LED. From what we know there is no RGB LED that fits a switch
But as you see, they do indeed exist.
They are called "Rainbow led" to distinguish them from normal RGB led.
To be more descriptive, that LED has 2 leads and alternates through the 3 colors on it's own. There is no control over it. Comes in fast and slow, can be found on ebay.
Mionix did say they looked into multi-color leds. Size and overhead was too important to get the product in the range they wanted it.
The build quality of their plate mounted switches looks reaaaally nice :)
all I can say.
+bump
I resisted to pre-order and chose to be notified when available instead.
Not really appropriate in a thread with a vendor.
Why is the Zibal delayed?
Probably read the thread.
Is that the same design as the Thermaltake Meka G1?
Isn't Filco the only one that doesn't use Cherry stabilizers?
Oh, that's nice. Didn't know that.
Is there a place a non-corporation could buy those?
Oh yeah, of course. I meant the stabilizers.
I was only able to use it for a few minutes before I had to leave, but I am pleased so far. Let me know if you have any specific questions.
Does it ping?
I'm kidding :P
Did you try the back-lighting, does it bleed over between the keys? How was the first impression quality-wise compared to the other keyboards you tried/owned.
Can you remove a keycap and post a photo of the underside ?
Done. Pics added to the bottom of my previous post.
Actually I'm pleased there hasn't been a rash of "ZOMG my Razer/Xarmor keys have worn through" posts. That DOES surprise me a bit.
Done. Pics added to the bottom of my previous post.
Trueepower - I having a hard time to beleive it is as bad as you say.
Especially with the "I would take a XArmor over this board" comment.
It makes you sound like someone I know.
I'll wait for more comments to see if they all go in the same direction.
:becky:
Maybe is better to choose the switch you like more ? Instead of endlessly arguing about pointless details ?
What you call pointless details is what makes the difference between boards using the same switches.
It's pointless to respond to your comment.
What were the reasons why you hate the Deck so much.
Aren't those pointless details as well?
I'll rather have a ugly font on a robust keycap with solid stabilizers over a pretty font on a ****ty keycap and wobbly stabilizer.
i returned the zibal 60. I didn't like that board one bit
Oh good. I didn't think I was particulary snarky and the OfficeCube guy was the one who whined about the colored keys, NOT ME!
And your post is linked to (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?19846-Mionix-Zibal-60-first-impressions&p=379180&viewfull=1#post379180%22) from the Mechanical Keyboard Guide.
Trueepower - I having a hard time to beleive it is as bad as you say.
Especially with the "I would take a XArmor over this board" comment.
It makes you sound like someone I know.
I'll wait for more comments to see if they all go in the same direction.
Buckling, I didn't mean to seem pessimistic, or negative about the Mionix. I was really just being honest on what I thought. But, apparently the board is made out of the same plastic as the Meka board which I guess is a good thing. People seem to like the Meka G1 so it's very possible that you might like the board .... if you like the Thermaltake board. I still thought the plastic looked cheap (and that is comparing the plastic to the Xarmor U9BL, and a Filco).
Also, the lighting was honestly a lot more yellow than green (which I thought was disappointing). It also had weak back lighting..... by far worse than the Xarmor U9BL. I would say if Deck is a 10 for brightness, Xarmor would be at a 6, and the Mionix a 3. I mean a lot of the keys were not lit up all the way (which was a problem with some of the Xarmor keys slightly), but the Mionix has problems lighting up regular keys all over the board. It's very noticeable. I think that you're are going to find that people overall will be disappointed with the back lighting with the Mionix. You however might not be one of those people of course. It's just the quality doesn't seem to be there.
In addition to those problems. A "real ping" existed on this board. It rung for a while typing hard, and bottoming out. While gaming, and hitting the keys hard you could hear a "vibration ping" (now I am not sure if this would be considered a small ping or big ping, but it was annoying to me). Like hitting two forks together, the plate of the board pinged. Which I found extremely annoying, and not something I would ever put up with for an extended amount of time. This might be normal, but I haven't heard that sound while testing the Xarmor, and or the Filco.
Although, on the positive side the Mionix had solid stabilizer keys which didn't rattle like the Filco. All the keys were tightly in place. It seems (by what I hear) to share the same Meka G1 board qualities. It's possible that some boards may actually have green back-lighting (rather than what I would call yellow-tiny tiny small hint of green maybe), and it's possible that not every board is going to have a small ping to it.
This was an average mech board in my eyes. Although, maybe I just got a bad one. I've heard good things about the Meka G1, but this didn't look like anything special.
The blacklight settings of 1 and 2 are very weak, but the highest setting is just fine. I prefer slightly dimmer keys that do not bleed at all from below the keys, over that of a brighter and distracting back light that would probably bleed a lot more. Do you need to your keyboard to light up your entire room in the dark?
If you mean that you don't like the fact that all the symbols under keys such as 1-10 are as clearly visible as the numbers themselves, then that is laughable. Why would you want them to be as bright as the numbers above? That would be incredibly stupid and distracting, which was no doubt part of their design.
But if 1 and 2 are really weak, why not move the scale of brightness to remove those and add more brightness? It's not hard to find bright LEDs and dim them down. Making dim LEDs bright is fatal however.
I was also disappointed by the coloring being more yellow than green. I was surprised how green it looks in the pics that I thought to myself that I might be a little color blind lol. But backlighting color is not a deal breaker to me I don't see what the big fuss is over color. I think the yellowish green looks just fine even if a better green would be more ideal to me.Show Image(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9448/img0052xux.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/img0052xux.jpg/)
The blacklight settings of 1 and 2 are very weak, but the highest setting is just fine. I prefer slightly dimmer keys that do not bleed at all from below the keys, over that of a brighter and distracting back light that would probably bleed a lot more. Do you need to your keyboard to light up your entire room in the dark?
And I don't understand what you're talking about when you say the keys don't light up all the way. Mine look completely visible during the day, and even better at night. From the picture, tell me exactly which keys are not being lit up. If you mean that you don't like the fact that all the symbols under keys such as 1-10 are as clearly visible as the numbers themselves, then that is laughable. Why would you want them to be as bright as the numbers above? That would be incredibly stupid and distracting, which was no doubt part of their design. Also the keys light up exactly same in the pictures they advertised so what were you expecting?
Also, the board does not ping for me and there are no annoying sounds when the switches bottom out. The keyboard is actually fairly quiet, even when typing.
Most of your negatives about this board are really questionable that I would reconsider your motives here. It's going to dislike the board legitimately as long as there are some legitimate concerns. If you seriously can't see the full keys light up then you might want to get your vision checked and I wouldn't voice that as one of your concerns because you're probably one of very few that that applies to.
If you prefer reds over blacks, and do a lot more typing than gaming, then why buy a keyboard with black switches that is advertised for gaming? ...
Lol.
Whoops. I'm supposed to showing empathy.
Bummer.
You sound like you are happy with the Mionix, which is a good thing. As for my vision, you can ask Noodles what he thought about the back lighting.... so apparently I am not the only "blind" person on these boards. As for the "ping" it was noticeable, but that doesn't mean it will exist on every board. As for my motives, I am merely a customer looking for a quality product. You however, took my review personal ... and appear to have an interest in Mionix's reputation. I don't doubt that Mionix makes some good mice, and the Naos 5000 looks pretty good, but this keyboard was an average keyboard at best.
Comparing a Filco, and even the Xarmor (in some ways) was laughable compared to the Mionix. I am sorry if you are disappointed in my review. Maybe Mionix should send a few keyboards out for free to some keyboards experts on here. I am sure they wouldn't find the board overly impressive.
Nope, I didn't take it personal, I just found your post amusing at the time. But I definitely understand some of the issues you have with the board (the one you received in particular) and how that influenced you in your decision to return it. Sorry if my last post was worded a bit too strong.
Good luck in finding a keyboard that better fits your preferences.
One is supposed to type in the way he like better.
...and then cry about the ping.
I'm not real familiar with the ping issue either. Seems like normal mechanical keyboard noise.
I feel your ping.
I'm just glad it's not a Filco ping problem. That would have been bad.
I doubt Mionix support could help more than the minds here on Geekhack
Well, RedPill solved that problem! That might have been the smartest/dumbest keyboard mod ever. I am not going to be doing that with any board I get. Mionix can be thankful I didn't try that! haha..... Would that void my warranty? (lol)
What Mod is that then?
What Mod is that then?
Just monitor it. AFAIK only Geekhack keeps talking about ping/ring. Hasn't come up at OCN (I know you post there), HardForum, Deskthority.net, any of the Asian Keyboard Forums, or Anandtech.
Supposedly, a "ping" or ring vibration is caused by the metal plate and PCB having a gap (which sounds like the truth).
I ALREADY confirmed this.
Just put some dental floss in a pinging Cherry MX if you don't believe me.
It's not verified that the gap or even the plate causes the ping. I believe the source of the ping is the springs. If all switches were to be compressed (or removed for that matter) it could verify that there is no ping anymore. Unfortunately nobody has tested this. The foam may well have worked because it dampens the entire structure, switches included. If you hold a loose brown or red switch in your hand, you can easily make the spring ping, by releasing the stem rapidly.
I ALREADY confirmed this.
Just put some dental floss in a pinging Cherry MX if you don't believe me.
Anyway if I WERE A ZIBAL MARKETING REP I'd avoid this whole place like the plague for a while until this calms down. You're gonna get more sales out of OCN.
Ripster posted a video of tuning forks which got me thinking. The ring/ping is sympathetic ringing in adjacent springs, transferred by a good mechanical coupling of plate and switches. I have tested this with a Leo blue board, Deck, and a Filco Ninja. Compressing switches around a 'pinging' key gets rid of the ping/zing. Kaboom.
Anyway if I WERE A ZIBAL MARKETING REP I'd avoid this whole place like the plague for a while until this calms down. You're gonna get more sales out of OCN.
I was wrong in 2010 once.
Been a while since.
Try the dental floss mod if you don't believe me. Your theories suck.
Your probably right but i'm not hear to sell, i'm hear to learn, share and build better products, oh and btw im not afraid to take the Geekhack bull by the horns and wrestle it. Other companies might be different but We Do Not Hide! /richard
If someone has a ring of vibration they can just take the board back. It's not really worth discussing unless a lot of people come on here, and say they experience the same problem with your product. Just don't advise anyone to do their own modding, and tell them to send it back.
Ripster is right about one thing, the discussion should be else where on these forums.
Mionix, our keyboard experts on here are right at least half the time!
Now, if anyone wants to talk about the actual Mionix board. Feel free, I won't post anymore about the infamous "ping" or ring vibration.
ok, i feel the mionix zibal 60 was the biggest rip off I even wasted my time with. for $150, I rather get 2 plu-ml87, break one and digest the other and the boards will still be better than the mionix one
I don't have any theories. Just know enough about logic that every spring on a board is not going to be messed up. I suppose that's possible, but I'll take my theory over yours. Logic is on my side.
If you open up a cherry switch, you'll see there's no provision inside it to dampen noise. Most brown and red switches ping, naturally. It doesn't mean they are messed up. I think the problem is that vibrations are transferred to nearby switches, like a reverb unit, which is why the noise ends up being big and "echoy" tuning-fork like. I have a keyboard WITHOUT a plate, and it pings pretty loud for at least a second.
Ive had a Zibal 60 pulled apart like a scene out of a CSI episode and we can conclude that it seems to be the switch itself which is made by Cherry and not anything on the keyboard. We have reds, blues and browns too and they ping the same way. Sorry if this does not help but at least i can confirm its nothing with the Zibal build. /richard
Both aspects counts.
Some switches are pinging, I had two in my xarmor, and it's clearly a Cherry assembly issue.
But
If the switches and the leds are pushed tightly during the soldering process the ping become almost inaudible, because there is some clearance between the pcb and the switches soldered with the industrial process.
I already published here the audio samples of a pinging switch (the same switch) , before and after the resoldering process.
before
(Attachment) 21238[/ATTACH]
after
(Attachment) 21237[/ATTACH]
Later I've also found a brand new, unmounted pinging switch.
I opened it to understand what's going on.
Well I just reassembled it, w/o any other additional action, and the ping was completely gone.
I presume that some switch's cursors, during the assembly process, are assembled with a rotational movement that charge the coiled spring with a torsional force.
Once disassembled that force is discharged and the switch start with the expected behavior.
I hope this helps.
Thank you! This is what i love about Geekhack... I will pass this info on to our Product Manager and lets hope we can find out more. /richard
Both aspects counts. (...)
I think you missed a few thousand posts on this subject at Geekhack.
I think you missed a few thousand posts on this subject at Geekhack. Meanwhile all the other keyboard forums remain thankfully ping free zones.
Look at the two Ping Polls here and make your own conclusion.
Maybe the Zilion dismantling has something to do with it...
wikipedia has the perfect definition for your behavior:
Envy is a negative emotion felt due to self-comparison of possessions. In simpler terms, envy is the wish to get what one does not have.
>I subconsciously want pinging boards.<
Good catch mr Freud.
Oh, be sure that 15 years of forums are more than enough to become more than amateurs psychoanalyst and/or sociologist
Well, the Zibal in ISO UK is delayed until mid september so a longer wait than I thought.
6-key rollover
and no windows button.
Do you really need more than 6 keys + 4 modifiers?
Look better, the win key is there
... and a windows key on the left side
it's 220 USD.
I think is a great move from the gamer POV.Yeah, can't disagree with that. Never ever had the problem of hitting windows key though ... but it's there for others
UK, USA, DE and Nordic are up first in June ...... Then RU, FR, SP, CN very soon after
According to mionixQuote
UK, USA, DE and Nordic are up first in June ...... Then RU, FR, SP, CN very soon after
Uw, well, OK, thank you very much for this information!
I've searched everywhere for that (even the press kit)
I guess, next time, I will try to search with my eyes open ...
Anyway, great news !
Ducky Shine later this month.
You heard it here first.
I've heard of it. Doesn't mean I like it.
Hey guys, I've been reading this thread, and people say that the keyboard has ping. Is the ping low latency?
I plan to order one once I figure out my college dorm mail system.
Not a valid youtube URL
It's caused by the spring being rotated a certain angle? Hmm....360 degrees and assuming a random distribution, 104 key keyboards, 5 degree of accuracy needed and that would make 1.486 pingy switches per keyboard. Somebody investigate this theory further.
I've read it as well... and you don't get it's the SPRING inside the Cherry switch! The spring is rotated in a way, during manufacture, that the edge of the spring (where the wire ends) catches the top of bottom of the key assembly thus creating a torsion load that's released with certain velocity etc key-presses. When this happens it makes a sound and people call the sound "ping". One of the users here even posted recordings of it. I don't understand why you would ask this question unless you have poor reading comprehension as it's in plain unbroken English.
PS sorry if you're ESL
The other end of the spring? Hmm... but both are resting against plastic.
And your source for this information?
The other end of the spring? Hmm... but both are resting against plastic.
And how exactly was this tested?
to above user:
/trollface
I've heard of it. Doesn't mean I like it.
Sig>Mods>Keyboards>International Mini ModShow Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6739&stc=1&d=1261944965)
I can't stand those Euro/Brit keyboards with the big CTRN !!!
OK you've over post count 10 so I don't have to be polite anymore.
Your theory blows.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?14646-ANSI-or-ISO-Which-lay-out-do-you-prefer&p=324953&viewfull=1#post324953
Well, it's pretty easy to visualize when I have a opened switch in front of me and have no idea what you are talking about.
No really. Open a switch and see for yourself. No spring to metal contact or plastic burrs anywhere the spring edge can catch on.
Back in the day we learned using experimentation and observation, not wikipedia.
Americans call this the "Keyboard Science" method.
Well again you know what they say about opinions... nudge nudge
Great thing the world is different... different cultures... customs etc...
Heck we all don't want to be like Americans!!!
The rest of the world calls that common sense and basic reasoning skills...
Back in the day we learned using experimentation and observation, not wikipedia.
Americans call this the "Keyboard Science" method.
Todays word is Sheisskopf.
Anyway, the orientation of the spring does not cause ping.
Hey, that's what I said!
~~~
EDIT:
For people who are arguing about the LED colorShow Image(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/ColourComparison.jpg)
I could be blowing this out my ass like
I heard Abercrombie and Fitch will pay The Solutor if he stops posting here.
italians have the best taste in women.
except in politicians...
:-)
Italians have the best taste in anything :first:
(Attachment) 24678[/ATTACH]
glad you agree you like snookie
I had set the Zibal 60 up on my desk and was using it for basic tasks - typing, Facebook, e-mails, surfing the tubes and a quick few bashes at some games. I had some friends over and one of them asked about the new keyboard on my desk. I replied with "yeah, that's the one I did some news on a while ago - Mionix say it's rage-proof."
I explained that it can sustain a few "omfg, hacker/BS shot" expressions of rage through a hit to the keyboard and the next second with the power of Zeus himself, my friend smashes his Hulk-like hand into the centre of the keyboard. Just like when Neo lifts off in the Matrix, I saw a ripple through my room from the sheer force of this rage and thought "that keyboard is dead, there's no way it can be THAT rage-proof."
Well, yes my dear readers, it is. The keyboard did not flinch. It is still very well alive and kicking and has sustained quite a few games and Hulk-like smashes since
I would happily just stick with my old Model M if it wasn't for the fact that in all these years I have never learned to type and I have to keep looking at my keyboard in an attempt to keep myself from typing gibberish, although this still happens far more often than I would like!
I have been waiting for years for Unicomp to come out with a backlit board, but that doesn't appear to be on the horizon any time soon.
Usually the old style board makers have old style brains.
That is so very true! Logitech on the other hand has taken it the complete opposite way and went for the "flashy lights and shiny buttons" approach that the video game industry has taken.
Nonstandard layouts are bad news in general. In this case, omitting the left Win/Cmd/Meta key makes the board completely unusable for me.
If Mionix key really has to be there, an unobtrusive place would be to the left of right Ctrl key. No keys need removing, narrowing the space bar would be enough to fit the new key.
That fix, plus moving numpad on left side of keyboard would make this an instant buy for me.
Welcome to Geekhack.
Yeah, I don't even trust reviews by people that get free review keyboards and turn down offers to review them. This allows me to remain objective and my sig title.
Speaking of which, we could always use another Xarmor U9BL-S review - this guy sure didn't like his (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:16239). And I think that keyboard is like impossible to find now.
Truth!
Luckily some backlit boards not batmobile styled are available. Qpads and Xarmors are very good boards with a clean lookIn my opinion, the Qpad's and Xarmor's will fit really god in the Batmobile.:evil:
In my opinion, the Qpad's and Xarmor's will fit really god in the Batmobile.:evil:
They are really two aspect of the same problem.
Luckily some backlit boards not batmobile styled are available. Qpads and Xarmors are very good boards with a clean look, the mionix mentioned here is not too bad too, and even logitech has the logitech illuminated and the k800 that are great boards with a more than decent look.
Does it really matters if the Lwin key isn't on the left, I mean really is it THAT important?For using OS X? Absolutely critical. Win7 also puts some useful shortcuts on the Win key, and I have begun making my own autohotkey shortcuts for the Win key. Incidentally, those autohotkey scripts take care of the same things - volume adjustments etc. - without butchering the layout like Mionix' solution does.
How does moving the numpad to the left make it a left-handed keyboard?It doesn't. It just takes the numpad out of the way of the mouse for me and the other 95% of people who use their mouse right-handed. Tenkeyless would also be acceptable, of course.
What they should do is mirror the standard layout to the other side, that way left handed users use the keyboard exactly as a right handed user except instead of being QWERTY it's YTREWQ.(similar to what they did say with the deathadder they just got the right-handed version and mirrored it the left then made the die-molds).I don't see the point since the main part of keyboard is symmetric. Even left-side numpads are not mirrored, presumably because the benefit is too small.
Personally, I don't like the look or feel of those low profile laptop style keys, I absolutely hate typing on my laptop for that very reason. Logitech for the most part makes decent quality hardware, but their drivers are complete crap.
Show Image(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/MionixZibal.jpg)Show Image(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/WASD.jpg)
EDIT:
For people who are arguing about the LED colorShow Image(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/ColourComparison.jpg)
First two pics are beautiful but is the last pic at brightness level 1? Arrows look ugly.
LI and K800 arent really laptop style, although they are scissor boards, btw if you dont like the scissor boards doesent mean thet they are all crap.
The U9BL-S is the first board I have used with cherry switches, so I really have no comparison with anything other than browns.