The question of course doesn't apply if you're in the US and thus think the whole world is US.
What this country needs is a $5 Realforce
I'm not much for science or economics. All I'm saying is this: If we can put a man on the moon, then we can certainly make a $5 Realforce.
Wouldn't it be better to sponsor Unicomp keyboards to lower the unemployment rate in Kentucky by 2-5 people?
Well, Topre is 'Japanese' and Japan has been under US occupation since
1945 so ... In some weird backwards way, Japanese products ARE American ..
It's been all over the world for ages - it's called rubber domes.
The question of course doesn't apply if you're in the US and thus think the whole world is US.
To OP, you are sure welcome to start up a keyboard company and make 5 bucks Topre boards at your own loss :)
To be precise the whole world is DOMINATED by the US.
Well, Topre is 'Japanese' and Japan has been under US occupation since
1945 so ... In some weird backwards way, Japanese products ARE American ..
Show Image(http://www.spatch.net/bear-sealsuit.gif)
The only thing that american occupation has infested into japanese culture is 2 things
1. love for christmas
2. american pop culture
it's amazing how a non christian nation celebrates xmas and with so much glee, and for how american pop culture invades japan, go google arnold swarteneggar (sp) japan commercials.
By natural right, every American citizen should have a Real force. This thread reeks of middle class. Working folks turn the soil and scrimp and save for any input device, some of them cannot even text with two thumbs because of so much intensive soil turning. And the Lucky ones? They will never be able to afford a Real force. Their productivity wavers, some smug ****er with an 86U under his arm snags their promotion and it's back to square one. Everyone deserves a Real force. The equal distribution of Topre keyboards would enhance social mobility, reduce crime, and increase general easiness, clouds of boobs, and lower taxes for everyone in the world. Path dependence. Morality. Family. America.
By natural right, every American citizen should have a Real force.
America? That's funny, I could have sworn your post was leading up to a Soviet Union endorsement. :lol: If real forces had been Russian, they'd be as plentiful as AK47s.
I'm not much for science or economics. All I'm saying is this: If we can put a man on the moon, then we can certainly make a $5 Realforce.
Actually the Mechanical Engineer that designed the Topre rubber mat manufacturing process should be shot. These things must take a lot of time to piece together.Show Image(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5026/5600296403_ce85edb972_z.jpg)
To be precise the whole world is DOMINATED by the US.
Show Image(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Staton666/AmericanWorld.jpg)
That looks about right.
Show Image(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Staton666/AmericanWorld.jpg)
discuss.
It's expensive because it IS built in Japan. And Japan isn't a third world country like China.
China has very high quality goods, it's just that most of them are consumed in the country. Made in Japan vs Made in China doesn't really matter anymore.The SONY PS3 was manufactured in China. It's certainly true that quality goods are made in China, even for export. The trouble is, though, that with exported Chinese goods sold directly by a Chinese firm, as opposed to Chinese-made goods made to the specifications of a Western firm - it's difficult for us to find the quality ones, and it's difficult for those Chinese companies that do care about quality to overcome their country's bad reputation in this area, so I'm not surprised they stick to the domestic market.
China has very high quality goods, it's just that most of them are consumed in the country. Made in Japan vs Made in China doesn't really matter anymore.
I'd say the keycaps of a Topre keyboard alone would make up most of the $5.
Except that it does. The fact that high quality products get made in China (alongside the midrange stuff and enormous mountains of absolute garbage) doesn't change the simple fact that stuff made in Japan is never going to be as cheap as roughly equivalent stuff made in China. Cheap labour is cheap labour.
I'm not even going to mention the fact that if "most of them are consumed in the country", then they aren't going to matter much to this forums North American and European members.
I pay a reasonably well built rubber dome keyboard something like 3.5 €, here in Italy. After the shipment cost, the import fees, and anything else...
So , I presume that one of those keyboards doesn't cost more than 40/50 cents at the origin.
Considering that feel free to add more restrictive tolerance, better plastics, better quality control, the metal spring and so on a topre keyboard should fit in the 5€ price range, if built in china.
I suppose they are built in Japan so you have to multiply that number by a factor of 4 or 5, so probably the raw cost of a topre keyboard is around the 20/25 euro mark.
The rest is just marketing.
I pay a reasonably well built rubber dome keyboard something like 3.5 €, here in Italy. After the shipment cost, the import fees, and anything else...
So , I presume that one of those keyboards doesn't cost more than 40/50 cents at the origin.
Considering that feel free to add more restrictive tolerance, better plastics, better quality control, the metal spring and so on a topre keyboard should fit in the 5€ price range, if built in china.
I suppose they are built in Japan so you have to multiply that number by a factor of 4 or 5, so probably the raw cost of a topre keyboard is around the 20/25 euro mark.
The rest is just marketing.
Out of curiosity, how much should a buckling spring keyboard cost?
Clearly you've never heard of the Socratic method...
Out of curiosity, how much should a buckling spring keyboard cost?
The BS keyboard are still the best keyboard out there, and unlike the topres are difficult to build with a lot of automation so the actual price is fair enough especially considering that are now built by a relatively small company like unicomp.
He probably thinks it is crap because it is old technology
and made in the US
we make Chevy's
Now, in terms of the switching unit, instead of springs with plastic hammers, we have sliders over rubber domes over springs. I think it's safe to say that these are equivalent in terms of cost
I am looking forward to alfa's return to the US, if it ever happens. I want a giulia!
My English is surely not good enough, but seem that you are a poor reader.
Where I supposedly wrote that a topre keyboard is "crap"?
I wrote that is OVERPRICED, is a bit different word than crap.
Do you really thing that the people outside the US thinks symmetrical relatively to the US people ?
You can't be more wrong.
Don't worry about the stone age American cars, someone in Italy is managing to share its knowledge to you, just wait a couple of years an then look what Chrysler can build.
Ok, let say you are right here.
The final price of the basic Unicomp keyboard is 79$, the final price of the basic topre model is 215$
Something is still wrong here, isn't it ?
Not quite sure on what you're trying to say here...
I think that too often the US people refuses to appreciate the foreign products just because they are made outside the US, while in Europe many people consider the "Made in USA" label an added value.
Personally I couldn't care less about the product provenience.
I buy what I like , what I consider well built and with a price that matches the product quality.
We still haven't really established just how much the capacitive sensing is going to cost.
I'd also bet that Unicomp shifts more keyboards than Topre by virtue of the number of terminal keyboards they make. Economies of scale and all that.
I can't say I agree with the pricing of the Topre. I think $200 is probably a more sane upper limit. My issue though is claims that the Topre is only worth $5, or even the same as a Unicomp, or even the same as something like a $140 Ducky (which is a comically bad value proposition compared with an $80, but I digress), for the simple reason that you are getting a better built keyboard with a far more elaborate switching mechanism.
A friend of mine actually said this exact thing to me. Everyone in Europe wants made in Germany or USA things, and refuses made in China stuff. Big mistake if you ask me...
I think you may be in the wrong forum if you're looking for the Americans that own only US products. Everyone here, with the exception of 'Microsoft Windows,' has shiny new mech boards made in Asia.
You guys can sure argue for a long time without any data.
This is a pretty spendy PCB. [...]
Spendy, and clean !
You guys can sure argue for a long time without any data.
This is a pretty spendy PCB.
And volumes in millions.
This country needs a $3 beam spring. Discuss.
Solutor should try a Realforce. They're quite nice. Probably better than a Xarmor.
It's expensive because it IS built in Japan. And Japan isn't a third world country like China.
Topre has to make up for R&D costs, whereas Unicomp inherited the Model M. Also Topre has to develop the keyboard controller software. So does Filco, but MX switches have been around for so long, I doubt any MX keyboard manufacturer develops their controller logic from scratch.
If you buy cheap Chinese goods, you will get something that is of low quality. Same thing as goods built anywhere else in the world. If you buy high quality goods, no matter where they are built they will be of good quality. What I'm saying is in China they can build the same quality for cheaper, due to labor and due to ramping up high production runs.
I think it makes sense for this type of poll though...people are generally proud of their favorite switch anyway :D
I like my Chinese DealExtreme $18 one better than this. It's fullsize. This one has squashed right side keys.Show Image(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-a2bGAQjlyLc/TY7XPECcy5I/AAAAAAAAABI/5YyJk7mHPHk/s1600/X120e-keyboard.jpg)
So anyhoo, back to the topic at hand.
If you look at the Scissor switch wiki you'll see Lenovo uses the same cheap scissor parts every other manufacturer does.
Looks just like the $18 DealExtremes!
OK, both of you...have you each used both keyboards in question?
Even if you have, stop stating opinion as fact. For some, the TP keyboard is amazing. For others, it's trash. I hate cherries, you hate buckling springs, he hates topres, she hates ALPS, whatever.
Keyboards are actually a lot like cars in that what one person finds a necessity, others find useless, or downright uncomfortable. You might drive an SL500, I might think that's absurd, while you find my Focus feels like a downright toy (disclosure, I love my Focus). You might want built in nav, I might prefer an aftermarket.
It's all preference. There are objective facts about keyboards. But "board feel" is not one of them.
For whatever reason, whether it be the quality of the scissor switch implementation, the keycaps, the construction of the keyboard unit or whatever, some laptop keyboards feel much better than others to type on. Thinkpads have some of the better ones. Vaios (in either consumer or business variety) tend to have some pretty dire, wobbly keys.
Kinda like Olivetti. Americans think EU countries are so socialist they might as well be communist.
In Soviet Russia THIS is what happens.
The $1000 Optimus Maximus.Show Image(http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2008/01/IMG_2665WTMK.JPG)
Here you are paying for good design. And Art Lebedev.