geekhack

geekhack Community => Input Devices => Topic started by: Keymonger on Sun, 10 April 2011, 19:23:00

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Keymonger on Sun, 10 April 2011, 19:23:00

A keyboard as two separate halves, light enough for both halves to be used as a mouse, featuring DataHand style input.

CAN IT BE DONE?

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: iMav on Sun, 10 April 2011, 21:40:43

Anything can be done with enough money. Personally, I'm not sure I'd much care for it.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: IanM on Sun, 10 April 2011, 22:04:42

originating from Australia, it's the Combimouse!

(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/05/combimouse.jpg)

http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/05/the-combimouse/
http://www.everythingusb.com/combimouse-16809.html

Not the same as Datahand, but half way there.

I've an idea that I've seen another design similar to this, but the concept always seemed rather eccentric.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 10 April 2011, 22:08:50

I see a gun and a shield.

Law and Order?

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: IanM on Sun, 10 April 2011, 22:13:17

Quote from: ripster;328286

A good test to see if you are homosexual is if you see a penis.

popular with Canadians and Czechs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_machine_%28homosexuality_test%29

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Mazora on Mon, 11 April 2011, 11:10:08

I wrote twice to the owner of the CombiMouse, I was interested in buying one of his prototypes but obviously its not possible, he's looking for a serious partner/investor though :P

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Keymonger on Mon, 11 April 2011, 15:23:57

Quote from: IanM;328285

originating from Australia, it's the Combimouse!

Show Image
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/05/combimouse.jpg)

http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/05/the-combimouse/
http://www.everythingusb.com/combimouse-16809.html
Not the same as Datahand, but half way there.

I've an idea that I've seen another design similar to this, but the concept always seemed rather eccentric.

I just love how this is such a radical design yet the staggered keys are still there.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: digitalleftovers on Mon, 11 April 2011, 15:31:43

Quote from: ripster;328286

A good test to see if you are homosexual is if you see a penis.

Well, NOW I see it... Thanks for turning me ripster!

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: xwhatsit on Tue, 12 April 2011, 04:11:24

Quote from: Keymonger;328735

I just love how this is such a radical design yet the staggered keys are still there.

I see people whingeing about staggered keys a lot. I *think* I happen to like mine, it seems to fall to my fingers better -- when fingeres centered on home row, shorter distance to non-home-row keys. Then again I've never tried a grid layout. What's the story? Is staggered evil?

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 12 April 2011, 04:41:44

There was also a concept called the Glide Keyboard (http://www.yankodesign.com/2008/10/30/worlds-largest-mouse/), where you moved a full-sized keyboard around as a mouse. Pretty silly.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Enzyme on Tue, 12 April 2011, 06:23:06

need touch sensors on a smooth keyed mechanical keyboard so you can use the keyboard as a giant track pad.

not quite a mouse but better than the mini trackpads.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Keymonger on Tue, 12 April 2011, 07:13:43

Quote from: xwhatsit;329050

I see people whingeing about staggered keys a lot. I *think* I happen to like mine, it seems to fall to my fingers better -- when fingeres centered on home row, shorter distance to non-home-row keys. Then again I've never tried a grid layout. What's the story? Is staggered evil?

It's asymmetrical and the staggering doesn't follow straight lines, it's zig-zagging.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: 7bit on Tue, 12 April 2011, 09:07:58

Quote from: ripster;328286

A good test to see if you are homosexual is if you see a penis.

I only see boobs in the picture! But I wonder a bit about you, ripster ...

(http://ergo.contourdesign.com/uploads/images/products/large/RM%20Free2%20Blk%20Hand.%20LARGE.jpg) (http://ergo.contourdesign.com/products/product-detail.aspx?id=66)
Of all mouse-alternatives which could be integrated into a keyboard, this seems to be the best.

PS: I see a female hand holding a tit.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: stupefaction on Tue, 12 April 2011, 10:18:06

What is that thing called again? I saw the product page once and couldn't figure out how it worked. Are you supposed to move the whole thing like a mouse?

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: IanM on Tue, 12 April 2011, 10:27:45

click the above photo for the product page: http://ergo.contourdesign.com/products/product-detail.aspx?id=66

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: stupefaction on Tue, 12 April 2011, 10:31:35

Ah, yes, the RollerMouse. So how does it work? Is it a gigantic mouse?

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: IanM on Tue, 12 April 2011, 10:47:44

is it explained on their website? I can't see any clarification.

I suppose the roller spins to control the vertical axis, while hand/finger sliding along the roller bar controls the horizontal axis?

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: 7bit on Tue, 12 April 2011, 13:00:02

Quote from: IanM;329227

is it explained on their website? I can't see any clarification.

I suppose the roller spins to control the vertical axis, while hand/finger sliding along the roller bar controls the horizontal axis?

There is a wide wheel (or how it is called) which can be moved sideways to move pointer horizontally, spinning the wheel moves the cursor vertically.

If it weren't that expansive, I would buy it. I'm quite sure its an improvement over a mouse, because you can more the pointer without moving the right hand away from the keyboard. It can be operated with both hands, finger, palm, thumbs, tongue, whatever you like!

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Keymonger on Tue, 12 April 2011, 13:44:54

That RollerMouse looks nice... bit expensive for me at the moment, but good to know such a thing is feasible.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: stupefaction on Tue, 12 April 2011, 17:44:04

I think I finally get it. It's that long black cylinder at the top of the device that controls the pointer, right?

I don't think I would want to use such a thing on a permanent basis, but I'd be interested in trying it out just to see what it's like to control the two axes of movement in very different ways.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Input Nirvana on Wed, 13 April 2011, 21:44:19

Rollermouse is really something, I have 2 different models. It definitely blows away mice. Uber-ergo and super simple to use. I can't use mice anymore, it seems like a silly step backwards in time.

Try it, you'll love it.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Keymonger on Thu, 14 April 2011, 06:23:41

It's not very good for games I assume?

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Input Nirvana on Thu, 14 April 2011, 12:06:01

I don't game, so I don't know :(

Call Contour Designs, their customer service has always been very helpful :)

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Carefoot on Mon, 23 May 2011, 18:22:16

Quote from: ripster;328286

A good test to see if you are homosexual is if you see a penis.

I'm gay but no don't see it.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Keymonger on Tue, 12 June 2012, 18:27:45

For the past 10 months I have (one and off) been designing a little device that would try to merge the keyboard and mouse input systems. I think it's nearing completion. All of it is conceptual but if it works like I think it works, it's patent-worthy. I probably won't be patenting it because I don't feel like it and because patents suck. However, I would like to be credited with designing it so it'll look good on a résumé. ;) Maybe I'll do a youtube video if I ever get it done.

It looks nothing like the Combimouse though... that thing looks awful.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Input Nirvana on Tue, 12 June 2012, 21:20:18

Look forward to seeing it.

I'm open for an opportunity, but patents can be very difficult, and enforcement is brutal. Often, money wins. I had some experience, and if you might have an interest PM me.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Parak on Tue, 12 June 2012, 23:28:14

There was this thing called Fingerworks.. a moment of silence for its passing, if you will.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Keymonger on Wed, 13 June 2012, 09:12:51

Fingersworks eh... fascinating. Needless to say I'd never do a design without proper mechanical switches for the keyboard's keys.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Keymonger on Wed, 13 June 2012, 12:20:06

Quote from: input nirvana;612362

Look forward to seeing it.

I'm open for an opportunity, but patents can be very difficult, and enforcement is brutal. Often, money wins. I had some experience, and if you might have an interest PM me.

The thing I'm concerned about with patents is not patenting it myself, but having this design violate other patents. That's what bothers me about patents. Patents are patents, they are not ideas. What I have is an idea. If it so happens that my idea and design violates certain patents, I shouldn't have to be concerned. If the patent holder didn't come up with this design or idea, what does it mean to hold that patent?

It's funny. Initially, I came up with this idea purely for myself... I was tired of having to deal with the inadequacies of the keyboard and mouse... of course I understand that they still work well and allow for much flexibility, and that there's a reason for why we continue to use them. Later I became excited and started to think about creating this thing for the whole world... but then I thought, that's too difficult. Let me design it for myself and be done with it, and not worry about the others. The Kinesis Advantage is an example of a nice little product that isn't suitable for the whole world. So that's what I had in mind.

But very soon I realized, if what I wanted was genuinely a good design, it must be good for everyone, not just for particular groups of people. I could come up with something and say: "Well, this isn't for everyone. It's for computer professionals." But what would I mean by that? That it's too hard for some to use? That it takes time and patience to adjust to? That the advantages brought upon this design are valued only by those with day to day activities on computers?
A design limited to a particular group, might be nice for that group then, but a genuinely excellent input system would knock the living daylights out of anything that's out there, whether you spend 5 minutes on a computer or 5 hours. For me personally, I just want the relationship between me and the computer to be a pleasant one.

The process of designing is also extremely amusing. Many moments I have felt feelings where one will want to shout: "Eureka!!" But as I've found, the best design decisions come not from those moments, but rather when you essentially kill your enthusiasm. I actually think this is what separates good designers from great designers. To keep your own enthusiasm (and therefore your own creativity) in check.

The current design I have looks a lot like that. It's almost too simple looking. In fact, there is a product out there on the market today that looks suspiciously similar to my design. The strange thing is that my design is even simpler looking, while trying to achieve more.
If it so happens that this is the final design, I would be almost remorseful. I went through a roller coaster ride of emotions, ideas and thoughts and this is ultimately what has come out of that? It's disappointing. It doesn't reflect some of the absolutely insane ideas I had at one point or another. But on the other hand, I understand that the simplicity might imply that I have arrived at the final design. It has nothing of the mechanisms and contraptions I had in mind at one point. There's nothing left for me to add or take away. It's a design that you'll look at and say: "What? That's it? You mean it's basically like (...)???"

Now all that's left is to prove the bloody thing works.

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: davkol on Thu, 14 June 2012, 04:30:31

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum

Title: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: Keymonger on Thu, 14 June 2012, 20:54:30

No need, the hardware is basically regular keyboard switches and a tracking device.

Previously I thought I needed some other type of switch because Cherry MX were too big, but fortunately my new design can just use ordinary Cherry MX switches. I'll use Cherry MX Brown or some such for my prototype.

Title: Re: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: CreamyNutButter on Wed, 30 January 2013, 11:36:37

You can get trackball keyboards but a mouse keyboard would be stupid.

Title: Re: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: lazerpointer on Wed, 30 January 2013, 14:53:38

Quote from: Input Nirvana on Wed, 13 April 2011, 21:44:19

Rollermouse is really something, I have 2 different models. It definitely blows away mice. Uber-ergo and super simple to use. I can't use mice anymore, it seems like a silly step backwards in time.

Try it, you'll love it.

What happens when you need the mouse to go to the right a bit more, but the bar thingy is all the way to the left? With a mouse you would just lift it off the surface, and have another go at it.

Title: Re: Keyboard and Mouse combined. Can it be done?
Post by: davkol on Wed, 30 January 2013, 15:37:11