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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: MadSage on Tue, 26 April 2011, 00:23:46

Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: MadSage on Tue, 26 April 2011, 00:23:46: OK, so this summer I'm going to be starting my new job, in which I'll likely be provided with a junky rubber dome keyboard. So I'm thinking of picking up a brand new keyboard just for work. This will probably be my work keyboard for a long time, so I'd prefer one that's durable and solid. I'd prefer one with a smaller footprint, so it's easier to lug around, and I also don't know what my desk space will be like, so better roomy and safe than cramped and sorry.

I will most likely be sharing an office with one other person, which means no Cherry Blues or Buckling Springs. This leaves Cherry Browns, Topre switches, and few others. I'd prefer not to spend too much money, but again, this will be my work keyboard for a long time, so I'm willing to compromise a little extra money for durability.

Within these parameters, I've noticed a few keyboards that seem to fit the criteria:
1.) Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 - $275
2.) Noppoo Choc Mini w/ Cherry Browns - ~$150
3.) KBC Poker 40% w/ Cherry Browns - ~$150
4.) Topre Realforce 87U - ~$265

And there are of course tenkeyless models of the big shots, like Filcos and Topres. I'm not sure how these compare in size, however, to the compact ones mentioned above.

My job will entail programming in a few different languages, and again, this keyboard will be used solely for work, so I wouldn't mind, and would in fact prefer, unusual layouts that promote coding efficiency.

So, I ask you, Geekhack, do you have any comments or comparisons of the above mentioned models? Any remarks regarding durability, comfort, size, layout, build quality, appearance, etc.?

And of course, if you have suggestions for other keyboards I may have overlooked, please speak up!

Thanks!
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: pitashen on Tue, 26 April 2011, 01:03:55: HHKB Pro's layout is designed specifically with programmers in mind. Plus its got made in japan quality. The other two are either made in Taiwan or China. Not saying they are bad, but when something is made in Japan, it is MADE IN JAPAN :) Not to mention HHKB pro uses Topre switches.

I don't own one by the way.
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: MadSage on Tue, 26 April 2011, 01:11:36: Yes, I am strongly considering the HHKB Pro 2, but it's just soooo expensive. I'm worried I'll get it and regret spending $250+ on it. And from what I've read, the HHKB Pro's build quality is not the greatest. I heard that the Topre Realforce 87U has a much better build quality, and is in the same price range. I do believe it's a bit bigger, but I will also consider that as well.
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: brkim1324 on Tue, 26 April 2011, 01:17:44: MY HHKB is coming on wednesday, but I have used from my friend, HHKB pro2 black. And I did saw many reviews from Kbdmania.net (korean keyboard mania website). From my opinion, HHKB pro 2 is way to go. From my aspect, the keystroke feel of HHKB is legendary for me at least. You won't know it at first, because it is not as distinguishable as other mechanical keyboards. But as time goes on, you will know why it is HHKB and renowned for. From my feeling of it, and my friend's thought, who has been using it for years, the keyboard just fits you later on like a matched puzzle pieces. Your hands won't get tired easily, the key layouts will become much easier and productive as you get used to it than original IBM keyboards.
I have been using many keyboards too. At first, when my friend got it.. I was foolish enough to call him a moron for spending that much money on HHKB. Because, mechanical keyboard had that distinct sound, and feel to it, when HHKB really didn't. And they layout looked so weird to me. But now I have been using mechanical keyboards and all, I gotta say, you will return to HHKB.. That's wut many ppl have been saying it too. You will return to Topre. It's.. just the best.. lol. As a heavy typist and programmer, I am saying... just buy it.. If you can afford it, there's really no higher product to choose after you get HHKB. You will know after about a month.
But gotta warn you, the layout will frustrate you for a short time, but after you get used to it, I don't think you can use any other keyboards lol.
Hope this helps!
P.S. NOT SAYING OTHER KEYBOARDS ARE BAD! THIS IS JUST PERSONAL OPINION XD (any many other opinions from HHKB users from kbdmania :) )
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: brkim1324 on Tue, 26 April 2011, 01:21:20: Quote
Yes, I am strongly considering the HHKB Pro 2, but it's just soooo expensive. I'm worried I'll get it and regret spending $250+ on it. And from what I've read, the HHKB Pro's build quality is not the greatest. I heard that the Topre Realforce 87U has a much better build quality, and is in the same price range. I do believe it's a bit bigger, but I will also consider that as well.
Yes, it's bigger and made for different purpose. HHKB is made for versatile programmers like for Unix. The layout is just made for best performance out of it. And I gotta say, if you are just looking for a great typing feeling, softer feeling out of it, go with 87. Many users saying HHKB feels stiffer but fun, and 87 feels softer and more comfortable to hand. If I could, I would love to own 87 too, but meanwhile, I ma gonna use HHKB pro 2 for a while. Hoping maybe forever lol. Besides, I just think HHKB is prettier :P
But as I said, they are different in layouts, meaning they are just in different CLASS. Definitely recommend 87 too.
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: pitashen on Tue, 26 April 2011, 01:28:29: HHKB's got solid construction quality, as far as all plastic is concerned. Realfoce's got metal mounting plate making it appearing to be more solidly built :) I am personally leaning toward to the Realforce, but thats only because I need an all purpose keyboard for typing and gaming. Chances are you will be hearing two voices regarding to Realforce vs Fujitsu's HHKB

Realforce is actually quite a bit bigger than the HHKB, how picky/strict are you with the size requirement?

(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5619/img0720dy.jpg)
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: brkim1324 on Tue, 26 April 2011, 01:36:54: damn I am so tired right now, that I don't even remember what I really said there lol. Now I read it, so many typos and not very good persuasion lol. sorry about that. Won't leave comments when I cannot organize what I want to say XD
anyway, realforce is bigger, meaning it's heavier, and not for mobile users. And the layout is IBM standard.
If you are a hardcore typist, go for topre switches. 87 and HHKB are all best choices.
Both topre and browns will get loud if you type hard. But not as loud as blue.
But personally, I recommend topre switches, HHKB. Just gotta love that layout.
This is just hard choices for us to decide, since the list you gave us are all the best keyboards in the market today XD
Jealous!
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: gilgam on Tue, 26 April 2011, 04:43:53: HHKB is really nice but for a better price you can get a leopold/ filco cherry. I have realforce and HHKB but i believe they are overpriced. I love my HHKB for mobile computing, as the kbc poker seems fine but is less well built.

But aside from mobility a tenkeyless filco/lepold is really fine, and modding is easier with a cherry switch keyboard

One nice layout is the g80-1800 cherry keyboard style. Compact and a full numpad
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 26 April 2011, 06:48:29: The 87U is great for coding. That's what I use. Unless you're going to be doing Unix commandline coding, don't get an hhkb or poker. The non standard placement of delete, home and end will bug you.
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: CeeSA on Tue, 26 April 2011, 07:05:53: for work I use a programmable keyboard.
I think that's very important to common phrases, etc. are quickly ready to have.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=17661&d=1303819174)
4 Layers
much possibility to program.

ebay.de:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TIPRO-Kassentastatur-TMC-KMCV-001-KartenleserTM-RCA-C3-/160495348571?pt=Kassen_Abrechnungen&hash=item255e44ab5b (http://cgi.ebay.com/TIPRO-Kassentastatur-TMC-KMCV-001-KartenleserTM-RCA-C3-/160495348571?pt=Kassen_Abrechnungen&hash=item255e44ab5b)

you could easily put off cardreader and numpad.
have a look:
http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87

now it's only 35cm wide
it makes work almost fun again ;)
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: n12 on Tue, 26 April 2011, 07:09:48: I wish new 87U's were still available somewhere...

If you're looking for a compact/mini keyboard to have on a desk all day for work and gaming, I would just go with the typical tenkeyless keyboards (Realforce, Filco, Leo, etc.) or a Choc Mini.

If you think you may need to carry your KB around or use it with or on top of a laptop, I'd probably go with a HHKBPro2, Poker, or Choc Mini.

It's really a lot of personal preference.
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: Human on Tue, 26 April 2011, 08:58:41: Quote from: CeeSA;337421
for work I use a programmable keyboard.
I think that's very important to common phrases, etc. are quickly ready to have.

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=17661&d=1303819174)

4 Layers
much possibility to program.

ebay.de:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TIPRO-Kassentastatur-TMC-KMCV-001-KartenleserTM-RCA-C3-/160495348571?pt=Kassen_Abrechnungen&hash=item255e44ab5b (http://cgi.ebay.com/TIPRO-Kassentastatur-TMC-KMCV-001-KartenleserTM-RCA-C3-/160495348571?pt=Kassen_Abrechnungen&hash=item255e44ab5b)

you could easily put off cardreader and numpad.
have a look:
http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87

now it's only 35cm wide
it makes work almost fun again ;)

May i know what program you used to program it?
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: chimpy on Tue, 26 April 2011, 09:19:48: Quote from: Osman Dandia;337361
Yes, I am strongly considering the HHKB Pro 2, but it's just soooo expensive. I'm worried I'll get it and regret spending $250+ on it. And from what I've read, the HHKB Pro's build quality is not the greatest. I heard that the Topre Realforce 87U has a much better build quality, and is in the same price range. I do believe it's a bit bigger, but I will also consider that as well.

You could always find a HH Lite, I love mine. Use it at work everyday.
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: CeeSA on Tue, 26 April 2011, 09:20:54: http://www.tipro.net/download/chme560.exe (http://www.tipro.net/download/chme560.exe)

Software: change me
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: MadSage on Tue, 26 April 2011, 13:30:47: OK, so I think I'm a little closer to knowing what I want. I was planning on getting a Topre Realforce 103U for my desktop use at home as well, but I think I'd like to buy an expensive keyboard for work, and I just can't justify $500 of keyboards this summer. This leaves my options to:

1.) Get a Realforce 87U / HHKB Pro 2 for work, keep using my Model M at home. Total cost: ~$265
2.) Get a HHKB Pro 2 and take it with me to and from work. Total cost: ~$275

These will both cost about the same amount of money. It's just such a hard decision between these two! The size difference really isn't that big a deal, I think either is small enough. I really wish I could try both before deciding.

I've considered the Choc Mini and Poker as well -- Choc Mini is kinda hideous. I do still like the Poker. I suppose another option is:
3.) Get a Realforce 103U for home, get a Poker for work. Total cost: ~$400

And of course the ideal would be:
4.) Get a Realforce 103U for home, get the HHKB Pro 2 for work. Total cost: ~$540
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: chongyixiong on Tue, 26 April 2011, 13:43:22: Quote from: n12;337422
I wish new 87U's were still available somewhere...

If you're looking for a compact/mini keyboard to have on a desk all day for work and gaming, I would just go with the typical tenkeyless keyboards (Realforce, Filco, Leo, etc.) or a Choc Mini.

If you think you may need to carry your KB around or use it with or on top of a laptop, I'd probably go with a HHKBPro2, Poker, or Choc Mini.

It's really a lot of personal preference.

Aren't they available like everywhere? I saw them for sale @ Inpad and Armygroup (both in Taiwan for TWD$8900)
Also saw quite a few on Taobao.
And then there's always Leopold.
Just that they are still overpriced that's all.

Anyway to add on to OP's decision - I doubt you'd go wrong with any of the suggestions here but I would like to mention it's most probably better if you can lock away your keyboard after use.
Don't want those noisy co-workers stealing your keyboard!

I'd chime in my vote for the HHKB.
Yes, the layers key do get some time to get used to but once they're embedded in your muscle memory, it's actually pretty awesome.
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: theferenc on Tue, 26 April 2011, 13:45:00: Owning a HHKB, I can say without a doubt it is well built, and it is awesome to use for coding. I use mine with emacs, vim, and visual studio, usually all three in a given day, for different purposes (vim for CLI only remote editing, emacs for LAN remote editing, VS for local coding). Especially if you're comfortable with either emacs or vi key commands, you can set most of them in VS with no problem.

One of the best aspects of it is that your hands just have very little travel on them. Backspace, control, ESC are all closer than on ANSI, and you can even further remap the main alpha block to something similar to dvorak or colemak, if you really want to (I don't). Worth every penny I spent on it. And if you do go that route, you can even modify your Model M to be the same physical and logical layout, if you so desire. All it takes is a bolt mod, which is pretty straightforward, a spare spring, and an extra key stem and cap. If you want things properly labeled, it becomes a touch more difficult, but I can help you out with that for the most part.

Oh, and if you are using Linux, I can provide an xmodmap config file for the HHKB layout on an IBM.
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: pitashen on Tue, 26 April 2011, 14:21:06: If you like to have both HHKB and realforce. Get HHKB first as you can use it both at home and at school without hassle.
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: elbowglue on Tue, 26 April 2011, 22:34:45: Wow CeeSA - what switches are those? Probably PCB mounter cherry black? Cool KB.
*EDIT* Figured it out, looks like plate mounted cherry black according to the link you gave to deskthority :)

Quote from: CeeSA;337421
for work I use a programmable keyboard.
I think that's very important to common phrases, etc. are quickly ready to have.

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=17661&d=1303819174)

4 Layers
much possibility to program.

ebay.de:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TIPRO-Kassentastatur-TMC-KMCV-001-KartenleserTM-RCA-C3-/160495348571?pt=Kassen_Abrechnungen&hash=item255e44ab5b (http://cgi.ebay.com/TIPRO-Kassentastatur-TMC-KMCV-001-KartenleserTM-RCA-C3-/160495348571?pt=Kassen_Abrechnungen&hash=item255e44ab5b)

you could easily put off cardreader and numpad.
have a look:
http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87

now it's only 35cm wide
it makes work almost fun again ;)
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: n12 on Tue, 26 April 2011, 23:16:32: Quote from: chongyixiong;337600
Aren't they available like everywhere? I saw them for sale @ Inpad and Armygroup (both in Taiwan for TWD$8900)
Also saw quite a few on Taobao.
And then there's always Leopold.
Just that they are still overpriced that's all.

Anyway to add on to OP's decision - I doubt you'd go wrong with any of the suggestions here but I would like to mention it's most probably better if you can lock away your keyboard after use.
Don't want those noisy co-workers stealing your keyboard!

I'd chime in my vote for the HHKB.
Yes, the layers key do get some time to get used to but once they're embedded in your muscle memory, it's actually pretty awesome.

I haven't seen a white uniform 55g for a bit. Thinking about getting the Korean version -_-
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: CeeSA on Wed, 27 April 2011, 03:20:06: @elbowglue

i change the lower 5 rows (desolder / solder) to cherry blue - my favorite switch.
Title: Best compact/mini keyboard?
Post by: isp on Wed, 27 April 2011, 03:48:29: hhkb or poker

the hhkb construction is fine, people that say the build quality of the 87u is better are right, but come on...it's because it has a metal plate inside lol....the hhkb was designed to be PORTABLE ..HELLO?!