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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: dotancohen on Fri, 06 May 2011, 08:22:14

Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: dotancohen on Fri, 06 May 2011, 08:22:14
I understand that the Happy Hacker keyboards use Topre capacitive switches. Does that mean that one must bottom out the key for the keypress to register? How is this an improvement over simple rubber membrane switches?
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: woody on Fri, 06 May 2011, 08:34:18
Quote from: dotancohen;342453
I understand that the Happy Hacker keyboards use Topre capacitive switches. Does that mean that one must bottom out the key for the keypress to register?
No, it's registered somewhere in the middle, thanks to the capacitive sensing. I type gently, but still bottom out on the HHKB, even if with a light force. Still a rubber dome with wrong force-displacement curve.

Quote
How is this an improvement over simple rubber membrane switches?
Reliability. And the plunger construction helps with off-center press.
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: dotancohen on Fri, 06 May 2011, 08:44:02
I see. I actually managed to find this image after I posted, that shows that one need not bottom out the Topres:
http://www.overclock.net/picture.php?albumid=3859&pictureid=22303
I even found ripster posting there, apostasy!
Quote
Reliability. And the plunger construction helps with off-center press.
That is exactly my problem. Off-center keypresses on my otherwise terrific MS Ergonomic 4000 bind and actually hurt my fingers in addition to not registering. I had to cut half the Enter key off to prevent the binding, I cut all the rubber domes to reduce pressure and I wrap the stems with teflon tape!

Do Cherry switches also perform well for off-center keypresses? I just ordered a keyboard with Cherry Browns, and I hope that this issue doesn't show up there as well!
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 06 May 2011, 08:49:32
There is also the Happy Hacking Lite, which is a chaper rubber dome, not a Topre.
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: Chobopants on Fri, 06 May 2011, 09:42:27
Quote from: dotancohen;342471
I see. I actually managed to find this image after I posted, that shows that one need not bottom out the Topres:
http://www.overclock.net/picture.php?albumid=3859&pictureid=22303
I even found ripster posting there, apostasy!

That is exactly my problem. Off-center keypresses on my otherwise terrific MS Ergonomic 4000 bind and actually hurt my fingers in addition to not registering. I had to cut half the Enter key off to prevent the binding, I cut all the rubber domes to reduce pressure and I wrap the stems with teflon tape!

Do Cherry switches also perform well for off-center keypresses? I just ordered a keyboard with Cherry Browns, and I hope that this issue doesn't show up there as well!

If it's a Filco, absolutely. I actually hit many keys off-center and the Filco handles it beautifully. The Leopold, on the other hand, has some issues with that on the larger keys due to less stabilized stabilizers.

Topres are awesome for their cool luxury feel but they aren't distinct enough from a rubber dome such that if you have a keyboard ignorant friend type on it they likely wont get what is so special about it except the texture of the keycaps. Cherry switches you can definitely tell there's something different and special going on there and you will notice a much more distinct "mechanical" feel.
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: dotancohen on Fri, 06 May 2011, 09:47:33
Quote from: Chobopants;342499
If it's a Filco, absolutely. I actually hit many keys off-center and the Filco handles it beautifully. The Leopold, on the other hand, has some issues with that on the larger keys due to less stabilized stabilizers.


Thanks. I just ordered a Ducky and I wonder if it is closer to the Filco or the Leopold. From the price I'm assuming it's closer to the Leopold. I wonder if I could mod that.
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: dotancohen on Fri, 06 May 2011, 10:01:39
That's confidence-inspiring, rip. By the way, I did just read 20,000 Leagues under the Sea. Two free internets to whoever can guess how deep the sub went!

Can these things be modded (stabilisers) to better handle off-center keypresses?
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: Chobopants on Fri, 06 May 2011, 10:11:01
I have not seen anyone attempt it yet. I think it would be a non-trivial mod but would be pretty neat if someone figured one out.

Cherry style stabilizers are fine for most people, I just don't like them. I'm really picky.
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: Mazora on Fri, 06 May 2011, 10:25:14
Sometimes I fall asleep in front of my workstation and when I wake up couple seconds later, the screen is full of aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

without even bottoming out the "a" key.
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: HaveANiceDay on Fri, 06 May 2011, 10:29:08
Sounds like a terrible nightmare!
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: dotancohen on Fri, 06 May 2011, 10:43:25
Quote from: Chobopants;342513
I have not seen anyone attempt it yet. I think it would be a non-trivial mod but would be pretty neat if someone figured one out.

Cherry style stabilizers are fine for most people, I just don't like them. I'm really picky.

Does that mean that the Duckys use Cherry style stabilisers and the Filcos use something else?
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: dotancohen on Fri, 06 May 2011, 10:47:13
Quote from: Mazora;342515
Sometimes I fall asleep in front of my workstation and when I wake up couple seconds later, the screen is full of aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

without even bottoming out the "a" key.

Must be Cherry Blacks, seeing how your nose holding up your entire head doesn't make enough force to bottom out. Did I ever tell you about the time I drove a tractor over a Cherry Black, and only by jumping up and down in the cab was I able to register a keypress?
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: Chobopants on Fri, 06 May 2011, 11:15:03
Quote from: dotancohen;342524
Does that mean that the Duckys use Cherry style stabilisers and the Filcos use something else?

I do not know 100% but Cherry stabilizers are the most common so I'd wager so if I had to just guess. I'm sure you could figure out on the wiki somewhere.
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: pitashen on Fri, 06 May 2011, 11:19:05
Quote from: dotancohen;342524
Does that mean that the Duckys use Cherry style stabilisers and the Filcos use something else?

Yes.

Don't worry too much.  Given that you have not yet tried other mechanical keyboard (as it seems), You'll like (love) the one you just ordered once you receive it and start spending some times with it. I wouldn't want to be overly concerned about the comparison between brands and different designs. You might find yourself dissatisfied/regret with your purchase, when it is not so bad.
Title: HHKB: Must the user bottom out?
Post by: dotancohen on Fri, 06 May 2011, 13:35:31
Quote from: pitashen;342533
Don't worry too much.  Given that you have not yet tried other mechanical keyboard (as it seems), You'll like (love) the one you just ordered once you receive it and start spending some times with it. I wouldn't want to be overly concerned about the comparison between brands and different designs. You might find yourself dissatisfied/regret with your purchase, when it is not so bad.

‎Thanks, Pita. There is actually a term for the natural feeling of regret that one feels after any purchase: buyers remorse. I'll try my best not to suffer it! Thanks!