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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: PlayerZero on Fri, 20 May 2011, 07:21:02
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Hey, first time poster here =)
Anyway, I've been looking into buying my first mechanical keyboard. I'll be using it for Starcraft 2 and some typing, so i thought Cherry MX brown switches would be good since I can't afford multiple keyboards. I'm really liking the Leopold FC200RT/AB (http://http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rtab), which is a tenkeyless with browns. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has this keyboard and likes it. It nicely fits my price range and requirements, but I want to make sure it's good quality. So if anyone wants to steer me away or suggest an alternative (not too much more expensive, if possible) that would be great.
On a side note, I was wondering if the "spamming" (rapidly pressing one key over and over) we Starcraft players do has any affects on keyboards I should know about.
TL;DR: I want to buy a keyboard with browns and want to know if the leopold is good. Also, is spamming bad for keyboards?
Thanks much!
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I can tell you in a couple days as I was in the same boat as you and ordered that particular keyboard. A couple of my friends who play SC2 a lot more than I do have the keyboard and they really like it!
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First off, welcome to GeekHack.
Soon you will get a reply by brkim who is another sc2 player with more experience with sc2/geming in mechanical keyboards and probably he will tell you that Red switches are the best ones for him, but that browns are really close after them for sc2/gaming. As of tapping/spamming you don't have to worry at all, this is what mechanical keyboards are build for! Just don't get blue switches since at least I, found a people complaining that tapping specifically can give you problems if you do it really fast, but I haven't tried a blue switch for sc2 myself, in this, also brkim will be able to enlighten you.
Filco with red switches probably is the best you can get, but is also way more expensive than the Leopold, so then your next better choice in my personal opinion would be Leopold with brown switches, and then if you can't get it, one with black switches (if those are around, I don't know).
Just go for the Leopold with Browns, filcos are hard to get this days.
Btw what league are you? :D I'm always looking for new friends in sc2, I play NA server btw
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Really, it doesn't matter what keyboard you get. You get accustomed to everything.
There are some sc2 pro players that use blues too, and they reach 300+ apm without problems. I doubt that you will need more speed than that.
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you might want to look at Das Professional Silent too , has brown swiches
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wlcm 2 gh
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Liquidtyler has browns
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Oh also, I forgot to mention, if you stay around this forums too much, theres a high chance you will end up getting more than one mechanical keyboard, so get one and get out if you don't wanna get addicted xD
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I use a Filco with blues for SC2. They are Awsome! I feel that the clickyness helps get you into a rhythm. I wouldn't worry too much about double tapping, I can get my APM up over 300 with no double click issues. My only wish was that they were a touch heavier for gaming. I also own a Filco MX Black & I wish I could find a tactile board with a weight in between the blue & blacks.
What's your handle? We should have a Geekhack SC2 meet-up sometime 8)
Mine is KilLy but my identifier# escapes me right now T_T
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I play ALOT of sc2, and I own a Leopold Tenkeyless with Browns (mine is the otaku version though). I love it. Some people complain about the "mushiness" feeling on the larger keys (like the shift key), this is due to the cherry stabilizers. For me, it's noticeable, but it doesn't bother me at all.
I love the browns, but I hate blues (too loud for me).
The other options to the Leopold is the Filco. If you have some extra cash and don't mind the Filco Logo, non-detachable USB cord, and no 3-channel cord, then I strongly suggest the Filco Tenkeyless with Browns.
IMO, the only thing the Leopold has over the Filco is this:
- No Logo (which is a big thing for me, I really dislike the loud Filco Logo)
- 3-channel cord (top, left, right)
- detachable usb cable
- ~$40 cheaper
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What, to see if they actually stop working?
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if you decide to get multiple boards eventually you can always go for a poker with reds, probably the cheapest option for reds right now. or you could always just mod the leopold to ghetto reds
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I was in the same situation as you just a few days ago. I ended going for a Filco blue from Amazon. It is absolutely amazing for typing, and I have no trouble playing SC2 at a Master's level. I think I'm already spoiled by the blue switches, as I'm typing this on my laptop right now and it just isn't nearly as satisfying.
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Nice to see the good SC2 crowd here :)
Anyway most switches should be fine, mostly preference. There are pros that use black (steelseries boards mostly), brown, and blue switches, I dont think there is a consensus on the best.
GL with the new board.
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I tried both browns and blues for SC2. I'm using blues as my main for sc2 and i love it. I know boxer uses blues too =D.
Only time I thought the blues got in the way of me gaming was when I was playing a FPS - CS source.
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Yes, it's nice to know that many sc2 players are around here.
And also, I've saw that boxer uses razer deathadder as his mouse, and someone mentioned he plays with black widow too, but I don't know exactly if this is recently or not, I know deathadder is from old times, due pictures, but idk about the keyboard, probably he uses both now, since Razer sponsors him and all the SlayerS team, but who knows.
All the EG team uses SteelSeries material, since they sponsor them, I know that iNcontroL uses a 6gv2 with black switches. And there was a guy spoted at MLG using a filco, but I couldn't recognize who was exactly, by the looks I think it was TT1
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its all preferenceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee or what you are forced to use
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its all preferenceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee or what you are forced to use
we are just noting that ones of all our idols use which switch, thats all xD
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Thanks everybody!
Anyway, I think this board sounds pretty good for a noob like me, so hopefully I'll be able to order it soon. I'll have to check youtube for demonstrations too...
Also, for those of you with this board, is the general build quality and quality in general pretty good? I don't want something terrible.
BTW, my SC2 name is PlayerZero char code #207, and i'm proud to be in bronze league =)
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I have a brown leopold and a blue filco and I prefer the browns for sc2. spamming keys are a lot easier :)
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I have a brown leopold and a blue filco and I prefer the browns for sc2. spamming keys are a lot easier :)
You can hold a key to repeat whatever unit. ie. Zerg: s, dddddddddddd, will give you 10+ drones.
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You can hold a key to repeat whatever unit. ie. Zerg: s, dddddddddddd, will give you 10+ drones.
But that's only if you have the minerals. Spamming is so the unit/building/upgrade starts production the instant you have enough resources
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But that's only if you have the minerals. Spamming is so the unit/building/upgrade starts production the instant you have enough resources
Try holding down a key in an editor. Yeah, it does that.
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You can hold a key to repeat whatever unit. ie. Zerg: s, dddddddddddd, will give you 10+ drones.
and uh if you want 4 drones? lol...
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and uh if you want 4 drones? lol...
Don't know if you play Zerg, but we mostly build units in bursts. So it's not common to build just a few units.
Now you may want to mix units of course, then you would be hitting 4 times D for 4 Drones then hold down Z for Zerglings.
But again, you want to focus on one aspect at a time, economy or army.
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Don't know if you play Zerg, but we mostly build units in bursts. So it's not common to build just a few units.
Now you may want to mix units of course, then you would be hitting 4 times D for 4 Drones then hold down Z for Zerglings.
But again, you want to focus on one aspect at a time, economy or army.
yea exactly. that's where the reset point for blues is bothersome for some people.
edit: ultimately, what keyboard you use isnt going to affect your play all that much. brood war pros used to and some still do use generic samsung membrane keyboards.
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Many SC2 korean pros (a few foreigners too) use the Qsenn DT 35, which is just a cheap generic keyboard. I believe it came from them being the typical keyboards in PC cafes when most of them started playing BW.
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I love listening to destiny stream, his keyboard sounds wonderful on stream. His keys sound louder when he is focused/pissed :P Example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZKB1Sz6dhQ)
he uses a blue switch Das Ultimate
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Many SC2 korean pros (a few foreigners too) use the Qsenn DT 35, which is just a cheap generic keyboard. I believe it came from them being the typical keyboards in PC cafes when most of them started playing BW.
exactly, that's why they use the Qsenn DT 35 in fact, its considered an old school keyboard.
@@oVo: ROFLMAO what an epic video, xDDD thanks for posting it!
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I'm a low-level Diamond player; got there using brown switches (Das Keyboard Ultimate Silent, Noppoo Choc Mini) with no issues. I actually prefer them to my Topre RF 86U switches, because the variable weights feel a little odd when gaming.
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I'm a low-level Diamond player; got there using brown switches (Das Keyboard Ultimate Silent, Noppoo Choc Mini) with no issues. I actually prefer them to my Topre RF 86U switches, because the variable weights feel a little odd when gaming.
Just curious, where did you get your Choc Mini?
Also, I was wondering: Are blue switches and brown switches the same other than the click with the blues?
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Just curious, where did you get your Choc Mini?
I got my Choc Mini off a member here at GH. I like the "poo" key inscriptions; the keys are almost blank in low-light environments. Not to mention they feel really nice too :typing:.
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Completely different. Surprisingly so. See the Cherry MX wiki.
Sorry, but I'm not quite sure I get it... Is the difference just more tactileness from blues (and the obvious click)? I get the "Jumping Bean" part but i'm not totally sure wat that does
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I was in the same boat and went with the Das Model S Ultimate (which has Cherry MX Blue switches). The silent version has Cherry MX Brown switches. I find it very good for SC2.
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Hey guys - finally received my Leopold Tenkeyless with browns... it's freaking awesome. Seriously. First 'modern' mechanical keyboard that I've ever owned and I am loving the added resistance (or at least compared to the Red switches)...
Seriously good stuff - cheap keyboard too IMO. I think I'm going to order the RealForce 87U silent version now :D
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Hey guys - finally received my Leopold Tenkeyless with browns... it's freaking awesome. Seriously. First 'modern' mechanical keyboard that I've ever owned and I am loving the added resistance (or at least compared to the Red switches)...
Seriously good stuff - cheap keyboard too IMO. I think I'm going to order the RealForce 87U silent version now :D
Cool. Hows the general build quality of the board?
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I personally use a Das Keyboard Ultimate with Browns, and I'm loving it. Never tried anything else though so can't compare. I would like to get my hands on a Tenkeyless though.
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Cool. Hows the general build quality of the board?
Amazing - way more solid that I expected, seriously. Doesn't feel flimsy, certainly feels solid. I'd so just go for it. For $100ish dollars, you really can't go wrong.
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Got my Filco Tenkeyless w/ Reds in a couple of days ago so I have been making the transition from browns. Fell in love with it the first time I played FPSs, but its taking a bit of getting used to with SCII. I think thats mostly from the Filco having a slightly different layout from my Desko "Elbowglue". It's hard to explain but I feel like I have so much more control with the reds.
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Sorry, but I'm not quite sure I get it... Is the difference just more tactileness from blues (and the obvious click)? I get the "Jumping Bean" part but i'm not totally sure wat that does
blues are heavier
you can feel the bump easier on the blues and its clickyyyy
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I'm so torn between reds and browns... I almost don't even want to touch my blues anymore :(
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Hi guys, I'm a first time poster too. I stumbled across geekhack earlier this year when researching what keyboards SC2 pros used, and it's amazing. I wish I'd found out about this stuff years ago. I'm relatively new to RTS games, but I can't describe the frustration I've had playing competitive FPS (mostly CSS) and having to deal with inconsistent membrane boards with limited key rollover.
My first mech board is a Leopold with MX Browns I picked up during the preorder from EK, and I love it, especially for typing. The biggest complaint I have is that the tactile bump is too subtle. While gaming I find myself bottoming out much harder than necessary to make sure the keypress registers. It bothers me that the key activates in the center of the press, but that most of the feedback I get happens at the bottom(that's when it makes the most noise too).
Like they say, it's probably all preference, but now I have an excuse to get something with Cherry MX Blues in it... still haven't been able to rationalize buying something like a Realforce without being able to try it first. Did someone say meetup?
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Hi guys, I'm a first time poster too. I stumbled across geekhack earlier this year when researching what keyboards SC2 pros used, and it's amazing. I wish I'd found out about this stuff years ago. I'm relatively new to RTS games, but I can't describe the frustration I've had playing competitive FPS (mostly CSS) and having to deal with inconsistent membrane boards with limited key rollover.
My first mech board is a Leopold with MX Browns I picked up during the preorder from EK, and I love it, especially for typing. The biggest complaint I have is that the tactile bump is too subtle. While gaming I find myself bottoming out much harder than necessary to make sure the keypress registers. It bothers me that the key activates in the center of the press, but that most of the feedback I get happens at the bottom(that's when it makes the most noise too).
Like they say, it's probably all preference, but now I have an excuse to get something with Cherry MX Blues in it... still haven't been able to rationalize buying something like a Realforce without being able to try it first. Did someone say meetup?
If you think browns are too subtle for SC2 you should definitely try blues. I usually prefer my browns for general use, but whenever I play SC2 I get my blues on. I find them fantastic for RTS gaming.
Edit: You wouldn't happen to have your name from LoL, or am I just making up connections that don't exist here?
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Hi guys, I'm a first time poster too. I stumbled across geekhack earlier this year when researching what keyboards SC2 pros used, and it's amazing. I wish I'd found out about this stuff years ago. I'm relatively new to RTS games, but I can't describe the frustration I've had playing competitive FPS (mostly CSS) and having to deal with inconsistent membrane boards with limited key rollover.
My first mech board is a Leopold with MX Browns I picked up during the preorder from EK, and I love it, especially for typing. The biggest complaint I have is that the tactile bump is too subtle. While gaming I find myself bottoming out much harder than necessary to make sure the keypress registers. It bothers me that the key activates in the center of the press, but that most of the feedback I get happens at the bottom(that's when it makes the most noise too).
Like they say, it's probably all preference, but now I have an excuse to get something with Cherry MX Blues in it... still haven't been able to rationalize buying something like a Realforce without being able to try it first. Did someone say meetup?
Yeah, I've really been thinking about getting a board with blues now that I've looked into it some more. People seem to like them for RTS, and I hear they are great for typing, too. I'll probably go with a Das because Amazon doesn't have any Filcos with blues, and the Leopolds with blues are out of stock. I hear good things about the Das.
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I just got the Das (albeit with browns) a few days ago and I can say that it does feel wonderful. I would definitely recommend it.
The look is much nicer than I expected too, it is fairly minimalistic, even though it attracts dust like crazy (so as long as you dont care/are willing to keep it clean, its no big deal).
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Edit: You wouldn't happen to have your name from LoL, or am I just making up connections that don't exist here?
The Nasus from LoL is just a coincidence. But he has a spell called "Soul Eater", so you can tell he's a baddass.
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can't wait till monday to get my filco m2 with reds and hardcore play sc2!!! I want to check on how will my APM improve!
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can't wait till monday to get my filco m2 with reds and hardcore play sc2!!! I want to check on how will my APM improve!
Where'd you get yours? The Keyboard CO?
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I've been using my Filco Red for SC2 recently and I have to say it is amazing. I like it better than my brown switch board by a bit, but browns would work great too.
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just got at work my new das professional silent (Das with browns) , atm typing on it :D and i love it , its pure typing pleasure but its still too loud if you work in an open office environment like me . Cant wait to get home to play some sc...i was forced to play with my logitech g19 as my steelseries 6v2g broke down and you start to notice the small things that you didnt notice before ,like caps and shift are harder to press then the rest of the keys, like how bad a rubber dome key feels like **** when pressed :) . Only thing i miss about the rubber dome keyboards is the wristpad , i dont understand why they dont make them for mecanical keyboards
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Thanks everyone!
I still think I'll most likely go for the Das Model S Professional, with blues (not ultimate) because from youtube that click just sounds so appealing. I'll likely try to test out a Razer Blackwidow or Adesso with blues at my local Best Buy and then dissapoint them and not buy either one. I still can't justify buying an expensive keyboard without trying it first.
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Where'd you get yours? The Keyboard CO?
no, I got em from amazon, its just its a long distance shipping, I live far far away, like beside yoda on that moon ^^
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no, I got em from amazon, its just its a long distance shipping, I live far far away, like beside yoda on that moon ^^
Do you live on Aiur? and are you really an archon?
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Do you live on Aiur? and are you really an archon?
Sadly no, I left Aiur at a very young age, and I just found a female high templar who I plan to... merge with myself as another high templar :O
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I play SC2 with a Filco with Blue switches, and I love them. No problems with double tapping here.
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can't wait till monday to get my filco m2 with reds and hardcore play sc2!!! I want to check on how will my APM improve!
How would your apm improve just by using red swithes? :/
Gear is no substitute for practice, musicians would agree.
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I play SC2 on my Filco with browns and it's amazing.
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Gear is no substitute for practice, musicians would agree.
Definitely, but it helps when good gear gets out of your way and lets you work on just your skill, as opposed to your skill AND wrestling with the quirks of sub-par equipment.
(Yes, I'm a musician)
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Sadly no, I left Aiur at a very young age, and I just found a female high templar who I plan to... merge with myself as another high templar :O
Brilliant.
Definitely, but it helps when good gear gets out of your way and lets you work on just your skill, as opposed to your skill AND wrestling with the quirks of sub-par equipment.
(Yes, I'm a musician)
I'm a musician too, actually, and I have to agree that practice is the most important part, however, a better instrument/equipment is also essential to sounding good. It's hard to be good on a terrible instrument
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I'm thinking mainly, rubber dome requires more force and to bottom out, with reds that require much lower force, and there's no need to bottom out, I could move quicker, using less force ;)
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Its not about the equipment, it's about the internet connection.
WHY no LAN Blizzard?
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Its not about the equipment, it's about the internet connection.
WHY no LAN Blizzard?
fk yea man, I wonder the same :S battlenet gets so laggy sometimes... its a crime!!! It happend on so many big tournaments already, they had to stop due lag :S
PS: It is cause blizzard thinks, if they implement LAN, less people will be forced to get the licence, but a true sc lover will get the game anyways!
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No, it's activision that thinks that.
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No, it's activision that thinks that.
lol.
=[ to many people would pirate the game and bla bla. Same video game shenanigans since pong
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Blizzard sees things in black and white. Kind of like Hitler.
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I'd say piracy is last on the list of reasons sc2 has no LAN.
Blizzard is interested in statistics of every single sc2 game ever played, that makes monitoring newly implemented changes and balancing easier.
By forcing everyone to play through Battlenet they level the field. The guys that can practice in team houses on 0 latency won't suddenly destroy players in a LAN tournament that had only laggy ladder acces for practice.
It's a good thing that even the best of the best players play on ladder, that makes the ladder very interesting and viable for practice.
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Blizzard is so stubborn they stick to PCs as a gaming platform.
Now THAT'S stubborn!
Someone has to make good PC games when everyone else seems to be more interesting in whacking off console gamers.
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console gaming needs keyboard + mouse capability. Try doing marine micro with a stupid joystick. I hate joysticks.
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Joysticks are OK for some games. I have a x360 controller I use with my PC to play certain games. But for serious gaming it's ****e IMO.
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Haha, what I love about this site, is that people can get away with saying stuff like that. Afterall a forum mainly about keyboards isn't likely to have console gamers overrunning it.
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The argument can be made on both sides on who will ultimately last. (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/gaming/age_empires_online_dev_%E2%80%9Cthey_should_really_be_asking_about_future_console_gaming%E2%80%9D)
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Blizz is all about the money man, I still think piracy is the top reason for the no LAN on SC2, but that's just my personal opinion you know.
Everyone knows the ladder is ****, is no parameter to measure players skills after a certain point; but it is useful if you want to get better, you will probably will get matched with the closest person online that has a similar level of game like yours, if you have a team or clan, or other professional friends, then ladder is worth nothing.
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Play a lot of SC2 here. I at first bought browns. Returned it after a week and go blues. No problem whatsoever and the click is actually audible enough to be useful. Also felt like the tactile click of the browns was so light I could barely feel it. Love blues infinitely more than browns :P
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Joysticks are OK for some games. I have a x360 controller I use with my PC to play certain games. But for serious gaming it's **** IMO.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?11745-left-hand-is-not-enough-footpedals&p=282615&viewfull=1#post282615 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?11745-left-hand-is-not-enough-footpedals&p=282615&viewfull=1#post282615)
Post of mine of some old school ideas combining the two; Joy/Trackball, Joy/Mouse, Throttle/Mouse, or Throttle/trackball. Primary reasoning is to get analog control and whatnot as to the speed difference a keyboard will be faster especially with the higher end keyboards this website discusses.
But your basically discussing not controls but analog vs digital/temporary control. The responsiveness of analog versus a digital input with a manipulated state(run, walk, etc.etc.).
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Thread hijack:
I play SC2 as well, bought a seal shield from keyco.
Love how it's easy to clean but the typing is bad.
Going through this topic I see people are fine with every type of switch, red, blue, brown.
Buying all 3 isn't something I plan on doing, wouldn't know of a way to test them either, living in the Netherlands.
What do :(
PS: Aren't those ~100 euro mechanical keyboards a pain to clean?
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Thread hijack:
I play SC2 as well, bought a seal shield from keyco.
Love how it's easy to clean but the typing is bad.
Going through this topic I see people are fine with every type of switch, red, blue, brown.
Buying all 3 isn't something I plan on doing, wouldn't know of a way to test them either, living in the Netherlands.
What do :(
PS: Aren't those ~100 euro mechanical keyboards a pain to clean?
wlcm 2 gh.
buy all 3
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As soon as my Poker gets in, I'll have all four: blue, brown, red, black. Not sure whether I wanna grab an mx clear board or not
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I use a filco tenkeyless brown for SC2
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I also use a Brown switch for SC2. It has served me very well. Typing is soothing too!