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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: ironman31 on Fri, 20 May 2011, 19:44:23

Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Fri, 20 May 2011, 19:44:23: I saw that they were releasing the new X1 Thinkpad in a few days, but I noticed it has chiclet keys on the keyboard. Anyone think they'll be any good?

I wanted a monster of a laptop so I figured I'd get a Thinkpad. Any suggestions on other models?
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Fri, 20 May 2011, 20:26:04: I was watching a video about the Thinkpad edge and the guy talking made it seem like the mainstream crowd preferred "island" keys. I really don't know why.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: .XL on Sat, 21 May 2011, 12:47:51: How much are you willing to spend? I'm looking at getting the T420s for myself to throw FreeBSD on. Since you want a more robust one they offer an upgrade to a 1gb vid card and a 2.7ghz i7 that seem right up your alley...

Anyone have any experience with the 420s keyboard?
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Sat, 21 May 2011, 13:52:06: I was hoping to keep it under 2000 usd, but when I was customizing it the t series were going around 2300 or more. Anyone know if it voids the warranty if you open it up to change the ram? I was thinking about upgrading that immeiately to save money
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: .XL on Sat, 21 May 2011, 14:06:20: I just finished building a top of the line one with (only upgrades listed)

-2.7ghz i7
-4gb RAM (free upgrade)
-720p camera
-320gb HDD (free upgrade)
-Bluetooth
-ultimate-n WiFi

That's on the 1gb GPU model. The total comes out to 1814, and you save 10% if you order with code GOOGLESHOP. It's far below the top of your budget so you have enough money to grab a decent sized SSD to throw in there, as well as an HDD enclosure to turn the Lenovo's HDD into an external disk
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Sat, 21 May 2011, 14:53:39: I think the intel ssd is what put me over, which is probably what ill get. O u know if the t series is any better built than the x series?
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Sat, 21 May 2011, 17:26:21: If I'm able to add to it without screwing my warranty then I'll just buy RAM and an SSD separately. Because they are wanting to charge around 600 dollars to upgrade it to 8 gb RAM and an Intel SSD
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: .XL on Sat, 21 May 2011, 21:56:02: ALWAYS do the RAM and HDD/SSD upgrades separately. At first I was willing to pay the extra money for convenience but the jump from 2gb RAM - 4gb is minimal, while 4-8 can be steep. Same with upgrading to an SSD. You're better off putting them in to save money. Also - you KNOW what's going in the computer. I know Lenovo has a good rep around here and all, but I'd prefer my laptops to not have a Samsung or Intel SSD because from what I understand they aren't reliable and they're slower than stuff like OWC or OCZ that can even cost less than the upgrade done through the manufacturer.

Though I LOVE my macbook pro I definitely feel like getting a Lenovo powerhouse and sticking a UNIX system I have never before used on it :p I'm toying around in terminal on the Mac right now but FreeBSD is still a little out of my comfort zone...
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Sat, 21 May 2011, 23:14:27: I bought an OCZ Vertex 2 for my desktop a while back. I like it alot, I'll probably put it a 120GB in the Thinkpad. What would you choose in the customize section to have an extra spot for a hdd/sdd? (if possible)
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: Smallville on Sun, 22 May 2011, 13:48:51: Changing the RAM and the HDD does NOT void the warranty. I have a x120e so I have experience with Lenovos. Never ever buy an SSD straight from them. It cost like 12893718237x more.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Sun, 22 May 2011, 14:39:51: Ugh, again with the 16:9

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/products/Laptops/ThinkPad/t-series/t420s/index.html (http://shop.lenovo.com/us/products/Laptops/ThinkPad/t-series/t420s/index.html)

And anyone have any experiences with the difference in build of the W series and the T series?
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: .XL on Sun, 22 May 2011, 20:39:05: I would recommend the OWC drives (i think they're for windows pcs too) because they're faster than the Vertex 3's and apparently the most reliable SSDs.

I would get the 320gb hard drive because that's a free upgrade.

Don't forget to use GOOGLESHOP at checkout to save 10% ;)
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Mon, 23 May 2011, 00:57:57: Ill most like be ordering one towards the en of summer, so hopefully there will be some other free upgrade promos going on.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: chongyixiong on Mon, 23 May 2011, 02:07:18: Quote from: ironman31;349920
Ugh, again with the 16:9

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/products/Laptops/ThinkPad/t-series/t420s/index.html (http://shop.lenovo.com/us/products/Laptops/ThinkPad/t-series/t420s/index.html)

And anyone have any experiences with the difference in build of the W series and the T series?

From what I have gleamed over the folks at the Thinkpad forums, the general consensus is that the X series > T series > W series, an some anomalies depending on some models in between.

Anyway, I don't thin it'll be a problem with either of those choices because they are still backed by the Thinkpad guarantee anyway!

Quote from: ironman31;350135
Ill most like be ordering one towards the en of summer, so hopefully there will be some other free upgrade promos going on.

So what have you decided upon?
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Mon, 23 May 2011, 08:05:42: I would really like to have a digital audio out on a laptop, but from what I'm gathering that's not going to happen. But I'm still looking through the different models, haven't mae up my mind yet. Been too busy researching a new audio rig.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Mon, 23 May 2011, 11:17:10: Quote from: ripster;350261
You guys do realize it's just another Chinese company now, not the Old IBM?
(Attachment) 18461[/ATTACH]

yes
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: chongyixiong on Mon, 23 May 2011, 11:44:45: Quote from: ripster;350261
You guys do realize it's just another Chinese company now, not the Old IBM?
(Attachment) 18461[/ATTACH]

Well, they still make awesome Thinkpads for all I care.
Cheaper and more accessible. At least they refresh their lineups much faster as compared to when IBM was taking the helm.

Could you imagine buying a Thinkpad back in like 1995 when they were like almost 3-4 times the pricing of similiar notebooks from their competitors?
I'm glad Lenovo took over the PC business and although they have made questionable choices but still I'm glad they took over.

Still better than most pile of junks out there although other companies are slowly catching up to the whole 'durability' game.

Anyway, I still dislike the look of the Lenovo Thinkpad logo so I came up with my own solution:
$2 on eBay and even cheaper on Taobao.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_zTdH8P9Zdbs/TdqOo83MUGI/AAAAAAAABrM/yry6Xmb3kjM/s912/IMAG0182.jpg)
(Needs to be replaced soon, stickers starting to come off)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_zTdH8P9Zdbs/TdqOosy6zDI/AAAAAAAABrI/lBs5dI4rIIQ/s912/IMAG0181.jpg)
(Got this from someone who posted it sometime ago, aluminium sticker - very nice)
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Mon, 23 May 2011, 20:14:32: Change in plans slightly. Don't care about the digital out, I'm getting a DAC with a decent USB input. And I'll probably order before the 26th so I can get a couple free upgrades. Anyone know anything about the different WLAN adaptors?
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: bhtooefr on Tue, 24 May 2011, 16:01:54: The W series is just a T series with a faster GPU.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: tamasrepus on Tue, 24 May 2011, 16:40:18: David Hill (Lenovo designer) describes the X1's keyboard as the "ultimate" ThinkPad keyboard (http://www.lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/2011/05/thinkpad-x1-designing-the-ultimate-keyboard/).

tl;dr: Lenovo has spent a lot of time researching it, and their chiclet keys have a larger surface area than other chiclet designs.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Tue, 24 May 2011, 16:59:45: I'm getting a W520 most likely. I would probably regret getting something with less power
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 25 May 2011, 08:10:07: Quote from: bhtooefr;350866
The W series is just a T series with a faster GPU.

Wrong. They are constructed differently. My W cools way better than my T ever did.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Wed, 25 May 2011, 08:45:46: I ordered the W520 last night, along with a 120GB Vertex 3 and 8GB of RAM
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 25 May 2011, 10:03:03: Congrats! Great choice!
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: bhtooefr on Wed, 25 May 2011, 15:59:07: Quote from: keyboardlover;351230
Wrong. They are constructed differently. My W cools way better than my T ever did.

The T520 and W520 share a hardware maintenance manual, for starters.

However, the heatsink is beefed up on the W520, it looks like. But, still, same chassis design.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 25 May 2011, 20:56:17: Quote from: ripster;351271
This looks a little hokey to me. In the Island Key World I'd call this Hapa Haole.
Show Image
(http://www.lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/files/2011/05/X1-KB-Diagram.jpg)

I'm STILL not convinced Thinkpad scissor switches are any better than generic Chinese switches.

Have you used a Thinkpad?
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: connectya on Wed, 25 May 2011, 22:07:47: I have to say using thinkpad x220 is a much better experience than my 4 models before .
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Wed, 25 May 2011, 22:14:33: First thing I'm going to do when I get it is throw it off my roof. If it breaks, I'm sending it back.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 28 May 2011, 01:54:38: Quote from: ironman31;351481
First thing I'm going to do when I get it is throw it off my roof. If it breaks, I'm sending it back.

are you serious?
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: The Solutor on Sat, 28 May 2011, 04:29:27: Quote from: ironman31;349232
I saw that they were releasing the new X1 Thinkpad in a few days, but I noticed it has chiclet keys on the keyboard. Anyone think they'll be any good?

Is likely the very best keyboard on the market.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: The Solutor on Sat, 28 May 2011, 04:31:43: Quote from: Pylon;351450
Have you used a Thinkpad?

Obviously not
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: J888www on Sat, 28 May 2011, 05:19:27: Quote from: chongyixiong;350304
Show Image
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_zTdH8P9Zdbs/TdqOosy6zDI/AAAAAAAABrI/lBs5dI4rIIQ/s912/IMAG0181.jpg)

(Got this from someone who posted it sometime ago, aluminium sticker - very nice)

I now have these (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IBM-Thinkpad-Limited-Edition-Sticker-18-x-30mm-7-/330542384488?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item4cf5dc8568) on two T60p, they seem to add a little bit of je ne sais quoi to the appearance.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Sat, 28 May 2011, 06:20:30: Quote from: EverythingIBM;352341
are you serious?

No, but I wish I had that much money to throw around. *Bu dum chi*
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: NamelessPFG on Mon, 30 May 2011, 17:52:40: Quote from: .XL;349670
...but I'd prefer my laptops to not have a Samsung or Intel SSD because from what I understand they aren't reliable and they're slower than stuff like OWC or OCZ that can even cost less than the upgrade done through the manufacturer.

I don't know about Samsung, but Intel? Unreliable? That's the opposite of what I usually hear, and if anything, it's OCZ that's unreliable as far as SSDs go (with other SandForce-based SSDs sometimes being affected as well). Intel's controller lacks the raw write speed of SandForce, but is still fast enough to feel far more responsive than any HDD.

But I'll give you a heads-up if my Intel X18-M G1 fails (along with being really pissed 'cause I don't have any spare 1.8" drives to put in the 2730p in such an event).

Anyway, ThinkPads...there's only a few models I've paid any significant attention to:

-X41t
-X60t/X61t
-X200t/X201t
-X220t
-W700/W701(ds)

Out of those, the X41t has a major flaw in using 1.8" ZIF PATA drives (in other words, the already limited selection of 1.8" SSDs precludes the good ones like the Intel X18-M because of the interface), the X61t is a compelling option at $350 (moreso if it's one of the few with the 1400x1050 AFFS LCD), the X200t and X201t are very good offerings overall (albeit more expensive than the competing HP 2730p/2740p), and the X220t blew it with that 1366x768 resolution and awkwardly-shaped main battery that doesn't even color the whole rear of the machine like its predecessors did (and makes a nice handle to grip while in slate mode). The W700/W701 used to be my dream 17" notebooks...and then I learn that despite the presence of a built-in colorimeter and RGB LED backlighting, they still use cheap TN panels compared to something like the HP 8740w with the DreamColor IPS LCD option, making for a frustrating tradeoff. (Oh, and there's no Sandy Bridge followup to those two yet.)
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: .XL on Wed, 01 June 2011, 22:37:49: I only say this about the Intels because I've heard of them degrading in quality much faster than the OCZs. I HAVE, however, heard that OCZ drives will fail around 18 months but they're covered under warranty so that's not an issue.

Personally I'd rather my SSD fail every 12-18 months and I get a free replacement instead of it degrading slowly over time and that not being grounds for a replacement. I haven't heard of anyone getting replacements from any manufacturer for degradations in performance - but of course I haven't heard of anyone being refused replacements so it could go either way.

What I HAVE heard, though, is that the OWC are the most reliable on the market and generally a great buy, as well as OWC having good customer service and willing to ship out RMAs quite quickly.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: .XL on Wed, 01 June 2011, 22:45:58: ...I'd like to reinstall HER os
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Wed, 01 June 2011, 23:55:44: Thinkpad should be getting here tomorrow. Of course they're making me make my own recovery discs to reinstall the OS.... Not sure why companies are too lazy/cheap/environmentally friendly to send me a damn installation disc.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: bhtooefr on Thu, 02 June 2011, 04:50:44: Because margins are so tight in the PC world that 1 cent is enough to kill the profit margin.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: Pylon on Thu, 02 June 2011, 06:12:21: Both my Dell Latitude and my Vostro desktop came with recovery disks. Odd. And I bought both of them refurbished.

I even complained to Dell that they forgot to send the Windows 7 disk with the Vostro (it had downgraded to XP) and they promptly overnight mailed me.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: .XL on Thu, 02 June 2011, 13:15:51: Quote from: Pylon;354633
Both my Dell Latitude and my Vostro desktop came with recovery disks. Odd. And I bought both of them refurbished.

I even complained to Dell that they forgot to send the Windows 7 disk with the Vostro (it had downgraded to XP) and they promptly overnight mailed me.

Most manufacturers will send you a recovery disk is you ask one.

OP - if you call Lenovo and tell them you want a recovery disk they should send you one through the mail
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Thu, 02 June 2011, 14:39:52: The guy wouldn't send me one until I had the laptop in my hands with the serial number -_-
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Thu, 02 June 2011, 16:01:48: They attempted to deliver it today, nobody was home, and now they're telling me that the driver won't be back to the warehouse before close. So I have to wait and pick it up tomorrow after work....
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Fri, 03 June 2011, 10:48:23: Went and picked it up this morning. In the process of making an image so I can install windows on the ssd after work.

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/6600/img20110603113827.jpg)
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: .XL on Fri, 03 June 2011, 18:47:04: Looks like a nice piece of machinery you got your hands on there! Let me know how it is...especially the keyboard!
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Fri, 03 June 2011, 22:08:34: The keyboard is better than my mom's dell inspiron, and it feels like it has a little more travel than the keyboard on my MSI netbook. This could just be because it might have a lighter actuation. I'll have to Rip meter them later.

Turns out you can't use an image restore for a separate drive (SSD), so I'm going to borrow a friend's windows install disc to install the OS on my Vertex 3.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 03 June 2011, 22:17:14: Quote from: ironman31;355400

Turns out you can't use an image restore for a separate drive (SSD), so I'm going to borrow a friend's windows install disc to install the OS on my Vertex 3.

Why not build the factory restore media and use it ?
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Fri, 03 June 2011, 22:58:31: Not familiar with how to do that. But I can get an install disc tonight, so that'll probably be easier.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: bhtooefr on Sat, 04 June 2011, 05:02:57: There's an option in the start menu to burn recovery discs.

And, when you restore, you can tell it to not install bundled trial versions of crap, too.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: ironman31 on Sat, 04 June 2011, 07:02:54: Quote from: bhtooefr;355457
There's an option in the start menu to burn recovery discs.

And, when you restore, you can tell it to not install bundled trial versions of crap, too.

Is this the same as burning an image backup? Because that's what I did.
Title: Need help choosing the right Thinkpad
Post by: The Solutor on Sat, 04 June 2011, 07:15:55: Quote from: ironman31;355471
Is this the same as burning an image backup?

No.

With the install media ~~you can restore your TP exactly like when you get it the first time, you should really do it, SSD or not.~~