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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: bonecandy on Sat, 21 May 2011, 17:26:07

Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: bonecandy on Sat, 21 May 2011, 17:26:07: I recently picked up a Filco majestouch2 with brown switches for work since I liked my Leopold brown so much. Unfortunately, the keyboard makes a really loud metallic ringing when typing - even not bottoming out still produces a pretty noticeable echo-y ring. It's especially noticeable since I work in an office environment. My Leopold doesn't make nearly this much of a clang and it's really getting on my nerves. :( It's too bad since I like the feel of the Filco's more than the Leopold.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to dampen the ringing? I just ordered some of the soft landing pads from EK, but I'm not sure how well that will work.
Thanks!
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: Wallach on Sat, 21 May 2011, 18:13:37: I sent my Filco MJ2 back partly for this reason. The backspace in particular rang hilariously loud. The Das w/ browns did not have that problem.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: godofdeath on Sat, 21 May 2011, 22:25:29: i think its calling pinging
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: mmmty on Sat, 21 May 2011, 22:41:46: ping filco -majestouch2

I have 2 Majestouch1 keyboards and they don't ping. My Filco Majestouch 2 pings on certain keys.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: noodles256 on Sat, 21 May 2011, 22:42:52: !ping me

67 ms

not bad
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: godofdeath on Sat, 21 May 2011, 23:22:57: my mj1 does it for the keys that got stabilizers here it the most with enter and backspace
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: Zet on Sat, 21 May 2011, 23:47:46: Welcome to GeekHack.

Have you tried your Leopold over the same office?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: bonecandy on Sun, 22 May 2011, 03:46:37: Quote from: Zet;349713
Welcome to GeekHack.

Have you tried your Leopold over the same office?

No, I'm going to bring it in on Monday though and use that until I can dampen the ringing on the Filco. I might just have to get another Leopold. Or MJ1 if they don't have this problem. :(

Quote
I have 2 Majestouch1 keyboards and they don't ping. My Filco Majestouch 2 pings on certain keys.

I wonder if only the MJ2's have this ringing problem?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 22 May 2011, 07:38:59: Yea that happened to me with the majestouch 1 version of the same board before...I hated that sound and sold it.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: sinis on Sun, 22 May 2011, 08:09:29: Quote from: bonecandy;349746
I wonder if only the MJ2's have this ringing problem?

exactly.
It would be nice to hear it before buying one.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 22 May 2011, 08:59:05: Nope, as I said this affects the MJ1's with browns too.

I have not experienced the issue with my MJ1 (previously with blues, then modded to clears) or my MJ2 with reds.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: canon.tk on Sun, 22 May 2011, 11:28:17: Some boards do it some don't. My 104 Filco with browns doesn't do it.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 22 May 2011, 11:36:48: Might just be the tenkeyless' with browns then.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: Zet on Sun, 22 May 2011, 11:59:23: is there a certain key that does this or it's a general sound?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 22 May 2011, 13:01:18: I noticed it in general whilst typing when I owned one. Happened with pretty much all the keys.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: canon.tk on Sun, 22 May 2011, 13:03:28: Quote from: keyboardlover;349827
Might just be the tenkeyless' with browns then.

My friend's 104 Filco with browns does it really bad.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 22 May 2011, 13:05:46: Perhaps this is the "defect" that Carl was alluding to... (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17967-Interview-with-Carl-Matsu-designer-of-Filco-Majestouch-and-Leopold)
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: bonecandy on Sun, 22 May 2011, 15:53:10: Quote from: Zet;349832
is there a certain key that does this or it's a general sound?

It's a general sound. With some keys it is less noticeable, but they all produce a ring.

Based on all the responses so far I'm not sure if this defect is just random, or the people who say they haven't heard it have a lot of background noise.

Do you guys think Amazon would accept a return?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 22 May 2011, 16:01:50: I've found Amazon to be very good with accepting returns. It's worth a shot.

The key is crying a lot. No one likes to hear a grown man cry.

[video=youtube;mWQlad_rVZY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWQlad_rVZY[/video]
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: mmmty on Sun, 22 May 2011, 16:34:01: I first noticed the pinging on my Ducky 9008 G2. I went back and count and there are about 12-13 keys that ping. There are only 3 keys (numpad#9, ], leftWin) on my Filco gen 2 that ping. It's not very loud and I only hear it in a quiet room. I took each of those keyboards to work for a whole week and didn't notice the pinging. Also, I'm a light typist and don't bottom out that hard. If you bottoming out all the time, you probably hear it more.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: vun on Sun, 22 May 2011, 16:46:30: On my gen 1(I think) Filco tenkeyless with browns I can hear a slight ping when I slam down on some of the keys, but I never hear it during normal use.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: daerid on Sun, 22 May 2011, 18:12:26: If you wanna get rid of it completely, you're pretty much going to have to do without the spring :-X
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: mmmty on Sun, 22 May 2011, 18:39:48: I think it's coming from the metal plate. It sounds like a small gong.

(http://www.nostalgic-images.co.uk/Application/images/Woodstock/desk-gong-lg.jpg)
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: bonecandy on Mon, 23 May 2011, 09:06:56: So, I brought my Leopold into work today and it has much much less ringing than my Filco. There's still some VERY slight ringing on a couple of keys but it's barely noticeable. Aside from the ringing it's also quite a bit more quiet. I'll let you guys know how much the soft landing pads affect the Filco's ringing when they come in, which should hopefully be this week.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: Wallach on Mon, 23 May 2011, 17:15:43: Quote from: bonecandy;349962
It's a general sound. With some keys it is less noticeable, but they all produce a ring.

Based on all the responses so far I'm not sure if this defect is just random, or the people who say they haven't heard it have a lot of background noise.

Do you guys think Amazon would accept a return?

They will, certainly. You'll just lose the shipping cost on return (which will probably come out around 7 bucks if you're in the US).

BTW, the noise is from the key upstroke/return. It is loudest when you press a key down fully, then release it quickly (so it returns at full force). My Daskeyboard didn't have that problem on any of the keys, at least to the point that I could reliably hear it. The Filco was quite loud by comparison, I could hear it with a set of studio monitors on if I let the key go quickly.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 23 May 2011, 17:21:49: Afaik brown switches are ringing when the switch is not tightly fitted when soldered.

Is just matter of melting the soldering points while pushing the switch.

Something like 10 seconds of work per switches.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: bonecandy on Mon, 23 May 2011, 19:03:02: Quote from: Wallach;350416
They will, certainly. You'll just lose the shipping cost on return (which will probably come out around 7 bucks if you're in the US).

BTW, the noise is from the key upstroke/return. It is loudest when you press a key down fully, then release it quickly (so it returns at full force). My Daskeyboard didn't have that problem on any of the keys, at least to the point that I could reliably hear it. The Filco was quite loud by comparison, I could hear it with a set of studio monitors on if I let the key go quickly.

Yeah that is exactly what's happening - the ringing only really happens on the release. I'm not sure if I should risk ordering another MJ2 since it seems like the ringing varies from keyboard to keyboard based on how well each one was put together. Makes me sad :(.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: bonecandy on Mon, 23 May 2011, 20:45:17: Quote from: ripster;349833
My Filco Gen1 Cherry Brown doesn't have any noticeable ringing.

Gen1>Gen2.
Well I'm taking my chances and ordering an MJ1 from thekeyboardco.com and returning my Mj2. It certainly can't be worse this *crosses fingers*
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: daerid on Mon, 23 May 2011, 20:46:57: Quote from: The Solutor;350418
Afaik brown switches are ringing when the switch is not tightly fitted when soldered.

Is just matter of melting the soldering points while pushing the switch.

Something like 10 seconds of work per switches.

Seriously, WTF?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: daerid on Mon, 23 May 2011, 20:55:44: Just got my Gen2 w/ Reds. No ringing anywhere on the board. Although it does suffer from the "rattly" backspace issue that my brown has as well. Good thing I got some Lithium grease on the way!
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 23 May 2011, 21:00:26: Quote from: ripster;350440
You are a master of wildass theories.

unlike you I'm used to open my mouth when I've something of intelligent to say.

in this case is not theory, simply I've tried.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: bonecandy on Mon, 23 May 2011, 21:29:38: Quote from: ripster;350496
WAIT! MY Gen 2 Red Cherry doesn't have any ringing either.

Gen1=Gen2.

Haha, well, I want to increase my chances of getting one without any ringing by getting something as different as possible. Also, so far it seems that most people that have had this problem had Filcos with brown switches. I don't think i've seen anyone with blue or red switches with serious ringing issues.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: Tony on Mon, 23 May 2011, 22:07:59: You may use a head phone and listen to your favorite bands during typing.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: drsauced on Mon, 23 May 2011, 22:26:09: My Leo with blues also rings, but unlike some of you OCD types, I actually like the sound. Somewhat therapeutic.

[video=youtube;8QApvw2c8NQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QApvw2c8NQ[/video]
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: bonecandy on Mon, 23 May 2011, 22:34:35: Quote from: drsauced;350533
My Leo with blues also rings, but unlike some of you OCD types, I actually like the sound. Somewhat therapeutic.

[video=youtube;8QApvw2c8NQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QApvw2c8NQ[/video]

You're crazy
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: mmmty on Mon, 23 May 2011, 23:06:22: I once set up my PC so that every time I hit a key it would make a sound (cow, dog, cat, horn, barf, fart, whatever). Each key would make a different sound. Now imagine you're typing a sentence...
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Tue, 24 May 2011, 00:34:30: Quote from: ripster;350560
Those are built at the Helen Keller School Of Soldering.

Hahaha, Where no fanboy has gone before :pound:

More or less all industrial plate mounted keyboards are affected, try to find a ringing keyboard when the switches are swapped and carefully soldered by an hobbyist.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Tue, 24 May 2011, 00:46:16: Quote from: ripster;350577
Does the hobbyist have to be Italian too?

I' think that even in S. Francisco melting 4 soldering point should be quicker than criticize w/o any clue. And the Italian saint is just a coincidence.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Tue, 24 May 2011, 02:01:18: Quote
To the OP.

Before sending the keyboard back or trying to resolder the pinging switches I'd try putting it on a Super XXL mousemat or rubber mesh drawer liner.

You'd be amazed how the acoustics of what's underneath the keyboard can change things.

Yes it works.

The hard part is just explaining to the mousemat to dampen the sound of just two or three keys...:smokin:
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: bonecandy on Tue, 31 May 2011, 19:12:52: Holy crap. I just got my Mj1. This feels a million times better than my MJ2. The MJ2 just felt a little loose. It's also much quieter overall, and best of all there appears to be very minimal ring to it :D. yay!
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: SecrtAgentMan on Fri, 03 June 2011, 19:45:24: So any solution to this?

My MJ2 with Reds has the "ping" noise on the home and left arrow key.

No big but I'd just like to fix it if possible.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 03 June 2011, 19:51:16: Quote
So any solution to this?

Read the thread solution is already given.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: rsantos97 on Fri, 03 June 2011, 21:10:17: Can someone make an audio recording of what this pinging sound is?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: bonecandy on Fri, 03 June 2011, 21:17:42: Quote from: rsantos97;355387
Can someone make an audio recording of what this pinging sound is?
Oh man I should've done that. Too late now, I already sent back my MJ2.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: rsantos97 on Sat, 04 June 2011, 13:27:16: Quote from: bonecandy;355388
Oh man I should've done that. Too late now, I already sent back my MJ2.

Can anyone else who notices this ring upload a recording? I don't notice it on my MJ2 and maybe it's because it isn't there or I hear it and am assuming it is suppose to sound like that. I just want to make sure I don't have that issue on my keyboard.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: uphillcastle on Sat, 04 June 2011, 16:04:59: mine PINGS real bad :( especially on the page up key for some reason? Even with the mouse pad underneath
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: uphillcastle on Sat, 04 June 2011, 16:23:21: Now I opened up the filco keypuller that came with the keyboard and its dirty. I guess that means I cant send the keyboard back?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: uphillcastle on Sat, 04 June 2011, 16:29:20: i stuck it in my earhole. But I cleaned it good. So no RMA?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: uphillcastle on Sat, 04 June 2011, 16:35:31: i am in the uk...i just opened up the filco key puller to have a look at it...I havent changed any keys or anything. But theres this one key on my ninja keyboard and it PINGS like a goddamn cashier till or something. Not sure what to do...
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: uphillcastle on Sat, 04 June 2011, 16:42:54: Quote from: ripster;355652
Like a cash machine?
.

Well not quite like a cash machine...wish i had a way to record it...
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Wed, 08 June 2011, 14:29:26: I just got a Majestouch-2 with Browns, and I can hear what people are talking about. However, I believe the reason is actually the acoustics of the keycaps magnifying the spring noise when the sound waves bounce back across the metal plate. To test this, I stuffed some bits of soft paper towel into one of the key caps, just enough to deaden the acoustics but not enough to interfere with the action of the key. The result? The ping becomes inaudible. This also is consistent with some folks saying the ping is louder on larger keys. That's because the internal acoustics of the larger keycaps make it more audible.

Based on this experience, I don't believe resoldering the switch is going to make a difference.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Wed, 08 June 2011, 14:43:20: Well, are there any notable differences in the construction between Gen1 and Gen2? Could the keycaps weigh less? Thus the springs pushes them up more easily, resulting in the resonance after they fully pop back up?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Wed, 08 June 2011, 14:54:26: Only seems to happen when bottoming out also. I wonder if those pads from EK or the silicone washers would make a difference.

I'll be able to test different keycaps also when the engraved PBT keys arrive.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: skamtet on Wed, 08 June 2011, 19:50:25: So the Filco Majestouch 2 with blue switches don't have this problem?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: ambroise on Wed, 08 June 2011, 19:59:57: So does that mean Leopold are better?

I'm confused...
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: sordna on Wed, 08 June 2011, 20:28:08: The ringing has to do with the switch, not the keyboard. The spring just so happens to oscillate differently from switch to switch. It comes with the territory of mechanical switches, just get over it, turn up the music, or go back to membranes. The keyboards are perfectly fine.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Wed, 08 June 2011, 23:18:54: Quote from: sordna;357620
The ringing has to do with the switch, not the keyboard. The spring just so happens to oscillate differently from switch to switch. It comes with the territory of mechanical switches, just get over it, turn up the music, or go back to membranes. The keyboards are perfectly fine.

Uh, well I have two keyboards on my work desk. One is a KBC Poker with MX Browns that just clicks, and one is a Filco Majestouch 2 with MX Browns that rings like a tuning fork. So no, it's not the switch. It's the interaction of the switch with the metal plate, because the acoustics of the keycaps and the metal plate make a distinctive ping that does not exist on a keyboard without the metal plate. I don't find it annoying, but it's definitely there. Maybe prior versions of the Filco board don't have it, I have no idea, I'm just telling you what is.

It definitely is resonating across the metal plate, because I can listen to different places on the keyboard while hitting the escape key and it sounds like the sound is coming directly from under my ear. There is some dynamic occurring wherein the metal plate of the Filco is magnifying the sound of the spring along with the natural acoustics of the keycaps. Maybe it's Solutor's soldering issue, maybe it's something else, I don't know. But it's definitely there.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Thu, 09 June 2011, 03:40:22: Quote
Maybe it's Solutor's soldering issue

If the switch is not tightly coupled with the plate, the dampening effect represented by the contact of two or more materials with different resonating frequencies is attenuated or missing.

Likely you never touched an old Italian £ 500 coin

(http://www.officinadellamedaglia.it/images/collezione/cinquecento_lire_bimetallica_big.jpg)

but maybe you have touched one of 1 or 2 euro

(http://innovatorieuropeizena.ilcannocchiale.it/mediamanager/sys.user/54174/1euro_2007.jpg)

which uses the same bimetallic technology.

Well those coins doesn't "ding" like any other coins, exactly for this reason: the two metals are tightly coupled and have different resonating frequency, slightly different in the euro coins case (two different kind of Cupronickel alloys) greatly in the Italian one (bronzital and stainless steel).

So Soldering correctly the switches have the same effect on plate mounted boards.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: sordna on Thu, 09 June 2011, 21:51:24: Solutor,
I don't think soldering has anything to do with it. I have some pinging keys, both frame and pcb mount, and even if I remove the keycap, and squeeze the switch body as hard as I can with my fingers to eliminate any vibration, it still pings. It's the spring that's vibrating, not the switch body.
Did you honestly resolder switches and found it resolves the sound issue, or is it just speculation on your part ?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 01:25:30: Quote from: sordna;358207
Solutor,
I don't think soldering has anything to do with it. I have some pinging keys, both frame and pcb mount, and even if I remove the keycap, and squeeze the switch body as hard as I can with my fingers to eliminate any vibration, it still pings. It's the spring that's vibrating, not the switch body.
Did you honestly resolder switches and found it resolves the sound issue, or is it just speculation on your part ?

I don't think is the spring that pings, rather the springy part of the contact, the point where the sound originates.

Whatever the origin is the plate helps to transmit that sound and the space between PCB and plate acts as a resonating chamber.

BTW resolder a switch is a so quick task that is quicker to try than to discuss endlessly w/o trying anything else.

In the worst is matter of 5 minutes wasted.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 01:52:19: Quote
You first

I'm sorry but likely i soldered and desoldered more switches in two monts than most of the geeckhack users in a whole life, maybe you included

Quote from: ripster;358301

You're the only one that keeps bringing it up.

I'm used to act while some other other love to talk.

Actually no other one has tried, so we doesn't have a good statistic about the problem.

I doesn't own high quality (:pound:) filco board, so just a couple of my switches were pinging, and they doesn't ping anymore.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: sordna on Fri, 10 June 2011, 02:50:05: I can get some keys on Kinesis contoured keyboards to ping. Both thumb area (PCB mount) and keywell area (frame mount). It's not the soldering, and there is no plate to resonate either. If it's the contact instead of the spring, I do not know for sure. But it's coming from inside the switch.

Ripster, you probably have loose MX switches lying around, do they ping ? And can you tell if it's the contact or the spring that generates the sound?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: nhwhaup on Fri, 10 June 2011, 04:19:53: Now keep in mind I don't have the Filco with the browns but two Filcos with reds. My full sized one really pings quite a bit. Now I never really noticed it before this thread and it doesn't bother enough to take away the enjoyment of typing on the reds. My tenkeyless Filco with reds has absolutely no pinging. I can speak from experience that the sound dampening pads and new PBT keys will not stop the ping. My full sized with the pinging has the firm sound dampening pads and white PBT keycaps from Imsto. I do also have it on a rubber matt and still pings away. Like I said before I still really like that keyboard and will continue to use it as my main board at work.

Now interestingly my tenkeyless version is ping free. I did put the soft sound dampening pads on it but I believe it has always been ping free. So what do you suppose is the difference between the two? Maybe the extra length gives less rigidity and more movement? Not that I notice any flex, but it's odd to me that these are so different. Both were purchased through Keyboard Company the full sized via Amazon and the tenkeyless direct.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: morethanless on Fri, 10 June 2011, 07:09:06: While I owned CeeSA's switch try boards http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=780 I noticed that the mx brown switches made a metallic noise from the springs.
The reds, blacks didn't do it. These try boards where PCB mounted.

So maybe the pinging really comes from the spring.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: Surly73 on Fri, 10 June 2011, 07:40:08: Quote from: ripster;358210
Hey I gotta try that ringing trick!
Show Image
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5066/5687526296_30bdde7fef_z.jpg)

If any Canadians have one of those Loonies you can seperate into two pieces I have keys (or USA nickels) if you want to trade. Mine is the wrong year.

That's a TWOnie
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: daerid on Fri, 10 June 2011, 10:07:18: Spoke too soon! Came in to work today and found out that my MJ2 Brown TKL rings on the left control key. Not too bad though since it's one of the lesser used keys, and it only rings when I snap it (not hold it down as a modifier).
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: daerid on Fri, 10 June 2011, 10:21:36: Yeah, I do, but unfortunately we're both at work. I don't have a good quality mic either :(
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 10 June 2011, 10:35:42: Although if you want to do that too, and record it, I for one wouldn't mind.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: daerid on Fri, 10 June 2011, 10:37:48: Quote from: ripster;358417
All she has to do is stand in the other room in listen. It's not like you're screwing in the cubicle or anything.

I would do both. But alas, we don't work at the same place.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 10:42:11: I managed to find a pinging switch and I recorded it
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: sordna on Fri, 10 June 2011, 10:44:38: Can you upload it here? Die daten ist nicht downloadbar.
We need 2 samples, one original, and one after you resolder it.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: morethanless on Fri, 10 June 2011, 11:41:26: Yeah it says 'the file you are accessing is currently not available, please try again later'
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 10 June 2011, 11:56:27: I love how we have a lot of threads about the same topic.

Between that and discussion about Moogle's signatures, it makes the whole group 3 buy waiting game MUCH easier.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 10 June 2011, 11:58:16: I'm still waiting for someone to post a pic of Moogle's first sig. I can't for the life of me remember what it was!
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 10 June 2011, 12:00:50: You posted his second one. He had one before that which 7bit claims was much manlier.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 12:01:31: @sordna

#1 I'm currently at the hospital because an emergency about the healt of my mother, so I haven't time to do anithing more for now

#2 I uploaded the file because someone asked, not to demonstrate anything.

#3 I if you wan't to try if my point is right or wrong just try to resolder your pinging switches, is matter of 5 minutes and has no side effect.
As I said before we are on geeckhack not on lazypussies :-)

#4 being an audio file is likely that it will checked before being available, the forum engine doesen't accept wav files.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 10 June 2011, 12:03:36: Sorry to hear about your Mom. I hope she will be OK.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 12:06:24: thank you guys.

were fearing moments but looks like she is going well.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 10 June 2011, 12:07:04: Quote from: ripster;358514

Certainly takes precedence over this nitpicking issue.

I find the fact that you used The Solutor's incident to try to add relevancy to your point horrifying.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: sordna on Fri, 10 June 2011, 12:56:37: Actually, it's way more horrifying to see Solutor posting on Geekhack from the hospital.
Anyway, dear Solutor, I wish the best for your mother, and I do hope you will NOT read these posts until after everything is well and back to normal.

However, you mentioned the soldering issue as a matter of fact, as a proven solution, giving the impression that you or someone you know of tried it successfully. We appreciate these ideas, but please indicate whether something you offer is a possible solution to try, or a known/proven solution. Some of the people here have never desoldered a switch, and would be rather pissed to destroy a PCB run or smear solder over adjacent contacts, and void their warranty, only to find out that the solution doesn't even work.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 13:29:51: Quote from: sordna;358542
Actually, it's way more horrifying to see Solutor posting on Geekhack from the hospital.

Should I wait w/o doing anything just to not horrifying you ? what's the difference between reading a newspaper and posting on a forum ?

I'm aware that Internet in mobility is a relatively new thing for Americans but I use it since 1998 and for me is a normal activity.

Quote
However, you mentioned the soldering issue as a matter of fact, as a proven solution

Exactly

Quote
giving the impression that you or someone you know of tried it successfully.

Exactly

But keep in mind that proven solution != definitive answer to the argument

Quote
Some of the people here have never desoldered a switch

Who said that you have to desolder the switch ? You have just to melt the four soldering point while firmly pushing the switch to eliminate any loseness...
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Fri, 10 June 2011, 13:37:35: The switches don't feel loose on mine, and they all seem to cause the same resonance in the metal plate. I thought about trying to stuff the case with foam, but I don't know if it'll help.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: sordna on Fri, 10 June 2011, 13:40:31: There's no looseness. I believe that IS the problem, there is too good sound transfer due to lack of looseness (like guitar strings transferring the sound to the soundbox through the bridge). In fact I think that if you remove all solder from a switch, and the pins are loose in the PCB holes, there would be no ping. Just a switch that doesn't register :-)
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 13:42:42: Btw i converted the file in mp3 and now is directly attached (message #87)
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 13:44:30: Quote from: ripster;358501
Lol.

Does The Solutor own a Filco?

The solutor owns a bunch of brown switches...
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 13:56:34: Quote from: ripster;358575
I thought we were saying this was a Filco only problem?

Looks like the problem affects more filco boards than other. My xarmor had just two switches pinging (and Xarmor doesn't present itself as a first on class)

I presume that Filco is more affected because the wire bridge instead of the led on one side of the switch, it's way easier to push the led than the jumper during the soldering process.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 14:01:57: Quote from: ripster;358582
I'd buy into your theory ONLY if Filcos had wire jumpers.

Even worse, with just two contact (like a cheap BW) that keep the switch in place my "theory" is even more supported.

Quote
Next theory?

We don't need a next theory.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 14:04:09: Quote
I can predict what people are going to say.

Just use the brain (like other people do) and you have right answers
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 10 June 2011, 14:12:41: Quote
I know where you get your theories from.

I think there were no need to write ripster on the left, everything figured that the one in black represents you :smokin:
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Fri, 10 June 2011, 14:49:23: I tried padding under the PCB and it didn't make a noticeable difference. I think it would need to be in contact with the metal plate or the keycaps themselves to do a good job of dampening the ring. Ideally there would be a foam sandwich in between the plate and the PCB.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 10 June 2011, 14:56:27: Hmmm, anyone crazy enough to spray that expanding insulation foam into their Filco? :)
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Fri, 10 June 2011, 15:02:49: Haha ya know that just might do it but I don't know if it's worth the risk. You'd feel like a real ******* if it didn't work afterwards.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Fri, 10 June 2011, 15:13:36: The PCB isn't what is resonating, the metal plate is. I like the foam injecting idea, but I just think I'd wind up with a quiet keyboard that didn't work when I plugged it in.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Fri, 10 June 2011, 15:47:56: Something like this? Dunno what's in the stuff, would it get in the switches or ruin the PCB??

http://www.amazon.com/Fill-Seal-Triple-Expanding-Foam/dp/B0002YX9GG
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Fri, 10 June 2011, 15:51:36: I'm tempted. I'll try some other things first and consider that the nuc-u-lar option
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Fri, 10 June 2011, 15:54:28: For what purpose?
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 10 June 2011, 15:57:21: Quote from: ripster;358535
You really aren't having a good day are you KL?

I was gonna say the same thing about you? You got beaten up in like 3 threads lol.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 10 June 2011, 15:59:38: But...only like one person believes you.

Lol.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Fri, 10 June 2011, 16:01:51: Quote from: keyboardlover;358651
But...only like one person believes you.

Lol.

Are you suggesting ripster is biased in favor of Filcos? :peep:
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: canon.tk on Fri, 10 June 2011, 16:03:47: I'll take the ring a ping a ding of a Filco over almost any other board out there.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 10 June 2011, 16:07:05: I've noticed that your post count dramatically increases when you're ticked off.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: drsauced on Mon, 13 June 2011, 16:16:17: My Leopold also resonates on certain keys, but it ain't no thang. Even this glorious Ninja has a little bit of ziiing, but not nearly as loud as the Leo or other Ninja/MJ2's. Most of this thread (and that other 20+ page Ninja thread), while entertaining, doesn't particularly address where the sound is coming from: the metal plate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe what we have here is a music box kind of situation whereby the sound of the spring in the switch is amplified by the metal plate.

One would think that decoupling the switch from the metal plate shouldn't be too difficult, or at least dampening the metal plate.

Now then, my Deck at home has a ringing 'N' key, obviously from typing 'Ninja' so often into Geekhack. Anyway I'll crack it open tonight and see if I can get the [strike]ring[/strike] zing dampened, thus proving that I will be the greatest keyboard dork on the planet!
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: morethanless on Mon, 13 June 2011, 16:30:54: Attention please!

Nobody did open the case and recorded knocking directly on the metal plate. So we could hear if it is the plate or if we need the switch actuation to produce the sound.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Mon, 13 June 2011, 17:12:05: Quote from: morethanless;360190
Attention please!

Nobody did open the case and recorded knocking directly on the metal plate. So we could hear if it is the plate or if we need the switch actuation to produce the sound.

Didn't make a recording, but did do that and it's definitely the plate. I can actually knock on the desk next to the keyboard and hear it ring a bit; no wonder direct keystrokes make it sing. There really isn't much to the case itself.

The metal plate needs additional dampening. But because there's such a narrow gap there's no good way to do it. In the interest of science I'm going to potentially sacrifice mine and shoot expansion foam in between there and see if 1) it's any quieter and 2) if it still is operational. If the answer to one or both is no, well then I'll consider it my ritual sacrifice to the alter of Geekhack.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Mon, 13 June 2011, 17:18:55: Quote from: ripster;360218
Uh, you mean this stuff. I wouldn't recommend that. I'd try a reversible mod first.

Yes, that stuff. I've tried other things with no impact. Time to get a little nuts.

Prepare the LEGO burial detail just in case.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: posthaste on Mon, 13 June 2011, 17:23:48: If Ripster was the official North American Filco distributor, customer service sure would be interesting.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: drsauced on Mon, 13 June 2011, 17:25:16: An Alps Focus?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19106[/ATTACH]
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: redpill on Mon, 13 June 2011, 17:38:27: Tried cork and rubber. Can't get enough of it in to dampen. Since it's a 104 key, there's a big empty spot between the arrows and the home cluster. No way to get to it, and I think it's a main contributor.

It's ok ripster, just turn your head and don't watch. When the foam cures tomorrow I'll break it to you gently.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: BababooeyHTJ on Mon, 13 June 2011, 17:47:40: Apparently my first gen board does this too. I so don't care and I still love this keyboard. I also probably never would have notice it had I not seen this thread and started looking for it.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: BababooeyHTJ on Mon, 13 June 2011, 17:55:11: It sounds like it is the switch to me. I only hear it on the way up if right after the tactile bump. Solutor's clip shows off the sound pretty well. I would be willing to bet that if you went and really looked for it that you would hear this with other cherry brown based boards. It sounds like people making a problem out of nothing to me.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: fds on Mon, 13 June 2011, 18:19:59: Quote from: BababooeyHTJ;360250
It sounds like it is the switch to me. I only hear it on the way up if right after the tactile bump. Solutor's clip shows off the sound pretty well. I would be willing to bet that if you went and really looked for it that you would hear this with other cherry brown based boards. It sounds like people making a problem out of nothing to me.

I agree, to my ears it is coming from the individual keys/switches. At first I thought it was the entire case or metal plate resonating like some people were saying, but it's not. I think it's coming from the individual springs and you can hear it on any mech board if you listen closely enough. It just happens to be a little more noticeable on the mj2 for whatever reason.
Title: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
Post by: drsauced on Mon, 13 June 2011, 18:49:20: Well, that is interesting, it could very well be that other springs are gaining sympathy to the resonating switch. That would suck.

Wow, actually, it is: on my Leo, holding down the Caps Lock and hitting the tab key results in less ring! If I hold down many keys around the tab key the resonance is even less. Not sure even foam will help. Ripster, you just might be genius for posting that tuning fork video.