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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Daniel Beardsmore on Mon, 23 May 2011, 18:03:26

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Mon, 23 May 2011, 18:03:26

I mentioned in another topic that I just picked up (for 20p) a Chicony KB-5182, with Montereys. No idea if it even works yet, I don't have my PC-AT to PS/2 adapter in the house, nor a spare machine to test it on. Monterey switches are so nice though – like a perfected ALPS. Or, rather, given that they have a mid-travel tactile point, this is the 60 g Cherry MX we never had. It's a cruel world that gave us Montereys and then took them away again.

Now, I've always been extremely reluctant to take apart keyboards, but the spacebar stabiliser is broken on the Chicony. The white anchor plug at one end of the spacebar has a broken retainer clip, so it's loose and pressing the right end of the spacebar is limp.

I figured it would be easy to swap the plugs over, since I hit the spacebar exclusively on the right – no issue for me if the left end is limp as I never press it. (I'd like a Japanese-style minispacebar just on the right, easier to stabilise, and room for spare keys ;-) Maybe a second ctrl key there for your thumb.)

But oh boy is this thing a nightmare to reassemble. I've tried every which way now ... I know I suck at assembling/disassembling anything, but did Chicony have a sadist on their team or what?

[Edit: And now I'm back to this endgame – spacebar is back on, visually correctly, but it won't depress. What is the matter with this keyboard?]

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: RickyJ on Tue, 24 May 2011, 00:06:52

Quote from: ripster;350444

Chiconys are built in a very ALPS way.  And this is not good.

Maybe I've just been lucky with the 4 Alps boards I've found, which use "standard" stabilizers and clips, unlike the weirdness in your pic.  I get more movement in the spacebar of my Cherry board.

The easiest way I've found to deal with the stabilizers in my Alps boards is to use a jewellers screwdriver to gently pick the stabilizer clips out of the backing plate.  They just pop back in on reinstall.  The only one that can give you trouble is the bigass Enter key which should use a horizontal and a vertical stabilizer.

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 24 May 2011, 03:08:10

Quote from: ripster;350444

Show Image

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5023/5753058916_23ef5aac4c_z.jpg)

When stabilizers are like that, it helps if the case is open, so that I can get more room to wiggle a screwdriver in there.
I put it on with the stabilizer bar hanging loose from the key cap. Then I pry it in place with a flat screwdriver.

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 24 May 2011, 16:25:47

This is what the KB-5182 has:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18522[/ATTACH]

I can't take a better image without disassembling it again. I'm bored, I may as well get a laptop set up and plug this keyboard in and see if all the other keys work. The rust on the steel plate is a nice touch, too.

I could have had a Cherry clear Chicony too for another 10p ... I'm mentally kicking myself for not grabbing it for you folk. The switches felt like they were full of engine oil, but I am sure they were salvageable :P

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 24 May 2011, 16:47:31

Bah. Every key appears to work perfectly except spacebar, which I've ruined :P

Anyone want 102 working Monterey switches? ;-)

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Touch_It on Tue, 24 May 2011, 17:54:09

so sad :( i have a chicony 5981. (untested)  but the keys feel sooooo good

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 24 May 2011, 18:09:21

Quote from: Touch_It;350927

so sad :( i have a chicony 5981. (untested)  but the keys feel sooooo good

I am hoping there's a 105-key (European) variant of the Chicony Monterey family. Decent 105-key keyboards are very rare. Europe got badly stiffed.

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 24 May 2011, 18:13:43

Quote from: ripster;350930

Doesn't look ruined.   Just pop the white part back into the metal plate after removing the white doohickys from the spacebar.

Then follow instructions in the Cherry MX Key Pulling Guide (see the All About Keys Wiki) to put back on.

As I said, it's already reassembled. You just can't depress the spacebar. I've reassembled it wrong. I've removed and reassembled the spacebar repeatedly and I can't find any way to put it back together where it works. I've put it back in such a way that it matches the right shift key (I've put that back together just fine several times), but that isn't good enough for it.

It's possible that the white anchoring plugs aren't reversible and that swapping them across stops the stabiliser wire from moving correctly (they're not symmetrical). I could resolve that by frigging supergluing the broken one in place instead of moving it to the other end of the spacebar, but it's starting to get a bit overkill for something I have no intention of ever using due to being three keys short of a sandwich.

However, it's easier to test type on a keyboard, even unpowered, if the spacebar moves when you hit it. It doesn't.

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Tue, 24 May 2011, 18:28:04

Someone's already expressed interest in it. I certainly won't bin it! Monterey switches are too precious to waste.

And yes, that first picture is completely different. Wish I'd bought that Cherry MX clear Chicony as well ... Oh well.

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 25 May 2011, 02:55:57

Right, so that looks exactly like what I had when I reassembled it. Maybe I have the long white doohickeys on back to front. I have no idea ... I should have sketched and photographed it as a reference.

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 25 May 2011, 11:50:25

I'm clearly not putting it back together properly. I need to spend yet more time trying to identify the nuances of the assembly. I may have the long white doohickeys around back to front after swapping them. I don't know yet. Both of the white doohickeys had popped out of the steel plate, but I've got one of them back in and now I can't remove it, so if it does happen to be in backwards that's going to be a pain. The other one won't stay in place as it's broken.

It's an awful faff to dismantle and reassemble the entire spacebar for every single failed guess as to how it goes back together.

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Wed, 25 May 2011, 12:10:59

That reminds me though – talking about FILCOs, there's something amiss with my FKBN105MC/UKB where I can see the spacebar stabiliser wire under the key. The spacebar was never quite fitted right from new. I am now doubly glad that I never popped the spacebar to investigate ;-) The spacebar works fine though.

Title: Fixed it
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sun, 29 May 2011, 16:55:28

Fixed it. I took it apart one more time, and realised that the long white doohickeys weren't mirrored – one of them was therefore inserted backwards:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18667[/ATTACH]

There's a very subtle strengthening ridge along one side of each one, and this gets in the way of the wire if you insert it backwards. I had to prise out the doohickey and reinsert it 180° around. The Blu-Tack® is there to hold in the other, broken, doohickey in place. The Swede who's getting this can bond it to the backplate if he wishes. It does need some TLC: you can see the rust in the above photo.

The spacebar now works perfectly – I think the problem wasn’t the broken doohickey but rather that the other one had been wrenched out the backplate completely. I'd hoped to make only the other end of the spacebar work, but now the spacebar works perfectly, and will continue to do so until the Blu-Tack® comes un-stuck ;-)

I must re-iterate that Montereys are fabulous switches. The only thing that really stands out with FILCO is the very deep resonant sound from the case, which sounds at its best with blues. The flip side is that Montereys have the cleanest and most precise sound, while blue Cherries sound very rattly (since they're flinging loose parts around to get the click).

I have to correct myself on actuation though – Monterey actuation is in fact close to the top of the stroke, similar to ALPS. Blue ALPS feel similar, but smoother, and perhaps a little too light.

Title: Chicony stabilisers
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Sun, 29 May 2011, 17:09:18

You can tell how tired work leaves me to make such an obvious set of blunders with the spacebar. Reassembly is also dead easy once you've got the stabiliser wire to drop down fully, since the mini doohickeys sit receptively in place.

In terms of feel, it might be wear differences. I don't have my Tulip to hand (it lives at work), but the Chicony appears to have seen less use than the Tulip.

Quite a nice looking keyboard for beige era, too, the Chicony.