geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: eot on Tue, 31 May 2011, 18:39:38

Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: eot on Tue, 31 May 2011, 18:39:38: I got my Filco about two days ago and I really like the feel of the keys, but after using it for the better part of today I feel a bit stiff in my fingers which I can't recall ever having a problem with before. I figure it can't be because of the switches because they're Browns and should be lighter than whatever piece of crap I used before (and they feel that way too). Using them shouldn't make my fingers tired, so I'm wondering if it's the angle that I'm holding my wrists at because I find that the keyboard is quite high and when you pull your wrists back you do stretch the tendons in your fingers.

Do you guys use wrist rests? I've never had to use one before...
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: daerid on Tue, 31 May 2011, 19:02:26: Or at the very least raise up your chair. You want your upper arms pretty much straight up and down, and your forearms at 90 degrees. Using the keyboard shouldn't bend your wrists back, as that adds strain to them.

I've used wrist wrests before, could never get used to them.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: eot on Tue, 31 May 2011, 19:40:00: Quote from: ripster;353851
You using a keyboard tray?

If not you should.

Nope I don't, but I don't see how it would help :P
Wouldn't that just make you bend your wrists even more? Right now I keep my arms flat on the desk. I actually sit in the corner between two desks so the keyboard is fairly far away from the edge. I keep my elbows on the desk with plenty of room to spare.

I might just be over thinking it ^_^. I keep typing stuff just because I like the keyboard so I've been typing way more today than I usually do. I'll give it some time.

@daerid do you type with your fingers flat? I tend to arc my fingers a lot (probably comes from having played instruments for a long time) and to do that I need to keep my wrists close to the keyboard which in turn leads to keeping them at a higher angle. I could try typing with the "palm" of my fingers but it feels a bit weird. Might make it easier to not bottom out though since you have less strength that way.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Tue, 31 May 2011, 20:30:16: sound like you're a bit like me in the way you sit and have the keyboard far away. i have mine about 16" from the edge of the desk and rest my elbows as well. i also type with curved fingers like i'm fingering strings (bass player since '93). i just keep my wrists straight by sitting lower. my desk is nearly chest height while seated. yeah it sounds strange maybe, but i have my forearms at a slight upangle from my elbow and end up with about 1.5" space from the desk to my wrists. it allows me to keep my wrist straight while feeling natural.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: hyperlinked on Tue, 31 May 2011, 21:19:01: Quote from: daerid;353863
Or at the very least raise up your chair. You want your upper arms pretty much straight up and down, and your forearms at 90 degrees. Using the keyboard shouldn't bend your wrists back, as that adds strain to them.

I always tell people to think of how they would hold their upper body if they were standing at rest. Would your elbows be forward? Would your arms to raised at the side? No. Your elbows would be resting against your ribcage.

Elbows at your sides. Elbows resting against ribcage. Elbows bent about 90 degrees.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: The Solutor on Tue, 31 May 2011, 21:22:59: Quote from: eot;353849

Do you guys use wrist rests?

Obviously yes, a decent keyboard should be bundled with a wrist rest
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 31 May 2011, 21:34:52: Quote from: The Solutor;353933
Obviously yes, a decent keyboard should be bundled with a wrist rest

I've never had a good wrist rest come included with a keyboard. One less piece of junk to throw out is a win in my book.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: The Solutor on Tue, 31 May 2011, 21:38:11: Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;353941
I've never had a good wrist rest come included with a keyboard.

The one that comes with my xarmor is just perfect.

All in all is just a piece of plastic not a nuclear weapon, is more easy to make it right than make it wrong.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: baller1308 on Tue, 31 May 2011, 22:42:47: Quote from: The Solutor;353942
Te one that comes with my xarmor is just perfect.

All in all is just a piece of plastic not a nuclear weapon, is more easy to make it right than make it wrong.
The one that comes built in the logitech wave is also nice.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: rsantos97 on Wed, 01 June 2011, 01:01:35: I never used a wrist rest before but just bought one from staples to see if it helps with the wrist pain I get, and so far it does. But I guess it depends on how you sit when you type and the height and distance of the keyboard from you.

The one built into the MS ergo 4000 feels really nice like fake leather.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: vun on Wed, 01 June 2011, 01:42:10: I recently bought a Filco wrist rest to go with my two tenkeyless Filco boards, and it does feel a lot better. In your situation I would definitely recommend getting a wrist rest, the Filco one is a bit pricey though so you might want to look into cheaper alternatives. Still, for me the Filco rest was worth it.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: Tony on Wed, 01 June 2011, 02:20:21: For brown switches, with proper height of your chair and keyboard, you can make your hands floating over the keyboard, so you can type without restrictions. That make you type longer.

I use a selfmade wrist rest made from cut paper and tapes. It has the height of the keyboard, so my hands are level with the keyboard I am typing on.

Some wrist rests show great ingenuity

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/5329/wristrest1.jpg)
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 01 June 2011, 02:41:36: Quote from: Tony;354018
Some wrist rests show great ingenuity
Show Image
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/5329/wristrest1.jpg)
The wrist rests are ingenious, but your posture isn't. Your problem isn't that you need a wrist rest. You need to improve your sitting posture and a keyboard tray will likely help.

Both your mouse and your keyboard appear to be a good two feet away from your body. This means you have to reach in order to use your input devices, which is not a good thing. Your shoulder blades are protracted forward and forcing you to slouch forward in order to reach your devices.

If you were trying to open a jar with a lid that was totally stuck, would you hold it two feet away from you while you were trying to open it? Not likely. You'd have it basically against your body where you have the most leverage and control... typing isn't quite so strenuous, but the same basic principles apply.

Elbows at 90 degrees. Elbows at your sides. Elbows almost touching your rib cage.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 01 June 2011, 03:30:02: Quote from: rsantos97;354004
I never used a wrist rest before but just bought one from staples to see if it helps with the wrist pain I get, and so far it does. But I guess it depends on how you sit when you type and the height and distance of the keyboard from you.

The keyboard should be within a foot of your body.

For best results, the idea with any kind of orthopedic support is NOT to use it. You're only supposed to use them when you need them because you're tired or you just can't remember to keep your wrists in a neutral position. When used only as needed, wrist rests and other supports are good to have. When you start thinking you're SUPPOSED to lean your wrists on them all the time is when they could develop over time into being problematic.

The same goes for arm rests on your chair. If you're putting your elbows on your arm rests to hold your upper body up, you're trading one problem for another (future) problem.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: Surly73 on Wed, 01 June 2011, 07:50:12: I've usually ended up using a wrist rest of some sort for decades, but they aren't extremely thick. Just a little something to elevate my wrists to keep them straight when typing normally. I used to use MS Naturals and the rests integrated into the fronts of the older ones did exactly what I needed. The 4000, with none of the optional plastic bits, also worked OK. They are low but give a little something to put your wrists/palms on. I couldn't stand the 4000 with the extra bits to raise the leading edge and slope it down away from you - my desk top is too high for that crap.

Now that I think as I type, I guess I actually use them as palm rests, not wrist rests. Everyone's anatomy and proportions are a bit different so I don't think you'll find any universal rules. I see some people with "wrist rests" away from the keyboard under their forearms. Mine are pushed right up against the keyboard. I also sit in a corner at the office and my keyboard isn't immediately in front of my stomach - I can't and don't hover my forearms and wrists all day long just so I can brag online that I don't use a wrist rest because I have "proper technique". I've been typing for 30 years - no RSI.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: Zet on Wed, 01 June 2011, 09:18:49: I've got my Filco M2 about two days ago too, and I noted that it's higher than my older keyboard, which isn't that big of a problem to me, since the keyboard tray I have on my room desktop has a little bump on the edge, to avoid the keyboard slipping or I guess something like that, anyways, that acts like a good wrist rest, but on my work, I have nothing similar to that, my desk is high, and my chair it's fking lame, I doubt it's even half a meter height... I'm really getting pissed at this. Good thing is, we are moving to a new place now, and I'll probably have my own office, with a new desk and chair with the proper height to my actual body height. This is just a not funny joke to me now :(
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: Zet on Wed, 01 June 2011, 11:06:50: lol, you smart ass hahaha, Majestouch 2
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: Chobopants on Wed, 01 June 2011, 17:09:23: Always

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5190/5687420702_fcdd9eb503.jpg)

I actually hadn't used a wrist rest for many years because I was using low profile Apple keyboards. Switching to higher profile Filcos was stressing my wrist and actually felt relatively uncomfortable. I hate crappy gel wrist rests but these things are amazing. Now the board truly feels as comfortable as it should be and gives me a gentle slope so my wrists aren't bent at all.

Also screw all the posture talk. I go from sitting up straight to slouching all the way down and my wrists are perfectly comfortable the entire time. Just do what works and doesn't strain you at all. Your wrists should feel 100% comfortable just resting on the board as you're sitting there.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: eot on Wed, 01 June 2011, 17:22:10: Thanks for all the replies guys. I'm gonna try some different stuff :)
I do have room on my desk to keep the keyboard closer so that my arms are angled differently even though I don't see how that would affect my fingers. Will try it anyway though. Cheers!
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: looserboy on Wed, 01 June 2011, 17:48:00: my wrist rest:loco:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18812[/ATTACH]

but after using this kind of wristrest correctly, i have to renew it sometimes :-)
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: daerid on Wed, 01 June 2011, 17:52:00: Quote from: looserboy;354374
my wrist rest:loco:
(Attachment) 18810[/ATTACH]

A number?
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: looserboy on Wed, 01 June 2011, 17:55:46: thx, have masked it. havent thought about.
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: eot on Sun, 05 June 2011, 18:52:50: Quote from: Chobopants;354349
Always

Show Image
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5190/5687420702_fcdd9eb503.jpg)

I actually hadn't used a wrist rest for many years because I was using low profile Apple keyboards. Switching to higher profile Filcos was stressing my wrist and actually felt relatively uncomfortable. I hate crappy gel wrist rests but these things are amazing. Now the board truly feels as comfortable as it should be and gives me a gentle slope so my wrists aren't bent at all.

I'm thinking about getting one of these but they're quite expensive.
Do you think it was worth the money?

I haven't ever had problems after using computers but now I've been feeling tired / stiff in my arm for two days despite not having used the computer since then =(
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: awry on Sun, 05 June 2011, 22:06:53: Quote from: ripster;353851
You using a keyboard tray?

If not you should.

My keyboard tray is meant for food. =]
Title: filco height - use wrist rest?
Post by: Zet on Sun, 05 June 2011, 22:59:11: I'm saving for a new computer, so sadly I won't be able to afford one, and instead a wrist rest I would save more and get a new keyboard, so I'll attempt to make my own and if I succeed will return with some pics from it :)