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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Engine on Sun, 05 June 2011, 23:23:46

Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Sun, 05 June 2011, 23:23:46: I have brown switch and really like it but I'm on the verge of getting red next. I'm really curious about it but would like to know what makes it so nice for others?
I'm just trying to collect any last opinions on this before pulling the trigger, since it is more expensive.
I don't touch-type or type fast. I don't game either. I just type emails/docs at mediocre speed, since I have some RSI issues.
Any last opinions/advice before I commit? I could really use your user's experience from a "typist's" standpoint please.
Thanks!
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: PerfectError on Sun, 05 June 2011, 23:49:25: My first keyboard we a set of browns, i was far too use to the tactile bump and when i typed on reds i thought i would never get use to it. At first it felt sloppy, with out the bump i felt like i was almost mumbling while typing, and i'd always bottom out just to be sure i was pressing the key all the way. It took me a long bit to get use to typing on reds and some anxiety to get over with out the tactile feedback but now i'm quite happy with reds; enough to the point that i no longer have my browns with me, i gave it away.

I prolly would still prefer to type very long texts on browns, but i do find it more pleasurable typing on reds, there is a slick, satisfying feeling about it that browns wont give you, but thats just how i feel. i did get reds for gaming but i did reach 104 WPM with it and i dont mind using it as my main and only board.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: SecrtAgentMan on Sun, 05 June 2011, 23:51:21: I like red just due to the fact that it's easy to register a keystroke and barely takes any effort.

Once you get used to how light it is then it's a really nice feeling IMO and you'll start to type quite fast.

Also for me with gaming I don't have to worry about any tactile bumps when playing, it's just a smooth keystroke downward.

I'd suggest buying from Amazon since they have a good return policy, that is if you can find any from Keyboard Co.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: bionicroach on Mon, 06 June 2011, 00:05:56: I really like my Filco MJT2 w/ Reds so far. I bought it on a whim just to try the switch out, but I was really surprised how much I ended up liking it for general typing. I don't do any gaming at all, but it is great for repetitive tasks like data entry or editing code / wikis, etc. I do have some mild RSI / tendonitis issues from injuring my hand a few years back, so I definitely appreciate the light touch of the Reds. I'm not crazy about the Filco keycaps as they're very light and slick compared to Topre or Cherry PBT, but the build quality of the rest of the board is rock solid. For typing walls of text at full speed, I find that my accuracy suffers a bit due to the sensitivity of the keys and the lack of tactile feedback, but for general typing where you're watching the cursor on the screen, the Reds are very smooth and relaxing to use and definitely help avoid fatigue / RSI issues. They're not as fun as Blues to type on and I don't think they'd be very good for transcription type work, but for general use they're fantastic. They would also be a great switch to use late at night when you're trying not to annoy people as they're virtually silent except for the bottoming out sound. (It is near impossible to not bottom out on them if you're typing more than 40 wpm IMHO.) I am extremely pleased with my Keyboard Co purchase via Amazon and would definitely buy this board again if it died.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Mon, 06 June 2011, 01:28:48: I'm gonna take a different approach here and say that I do like the reds for typing (I'm on my MJ2 Linear-R right now), but I prefer the browns more. As awesome as the light touch of the reds is, I do prefer the feedback and general "snappy-ness" of the browns for coding/writing. The reds are on my gaming machine, and I have my Browns at work (I'm a programmer).
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: noodles256 on Mon, 06 June 2011, 01:29:59: i'd say most mech keyboards users are programmers or pro gamers.

hehe
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: pitashen on Mon, 06 June 2011, 02:48:11: Red is brown without the bump.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Tony on Mon, 06 June 2011, 05:10:18: If you don't touch type, then Red are very good for typing, since you are bottoming out each key.

If you touch type, ability to feel the actuation point of brown can help you type faster. You don't have to bottom out each key, so you are able to hover over your keyboard and type with just enough force.

If you touch type in Red, you will never be sure whether a key is pressed or not, which makes you slow down a bit.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: nocturn4l3030 on Mon, 06 June 2011, 06:39:15: reds and browns are my favorites for typing.. i switch depending on my mood.

i like my topre for gaming
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 06 June 2011, 06:58:03: Touch typing doesn't mean that you never bottom out...

Bottoming out is FINE to do. Especially with the ladies.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: canon.tk on Mon, 06 June 2011, 07:51:54: For pure typing I like browns a little better. Reds are better for gaming but I type on them well now too.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Zet on Mon, 06 June 2011, 08:35:54: Quote from: keyboardlover;356184
Bottoming out is FINE to do. Especially with the ladies.

+1

Totally agree xD
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Chobopants on Mon, 06 June 2011, 09:55:46: I use Red/Blue for typing at work (Pro Grammer)
I use Brown (RTS)/Topre (FPS) for gaming at home (Non-Pro Gamer)

:)

I could totally see using my Reds for gaming as well though. I'd say they're interchangeable with the Browns overall, just depends on preference.

Also...
Quote
Red is brown without the bump.

This is 100% untrue. Browns are nearly pure linear in force with just a bump in the middle. Reds have increasing force the more you depress them, hence the "Cloud of Boobs" effect. If you type on them side by side the difference is very noticeable. They're probably the two most similar boards I own but they have enough difference that I would tell someone to at least try both before making up their minds.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: RickyJ on Mon, 06 June 2011, 23:48:08: I wouldn't go so far as to say they're nearly pure linear in force, it's just that the peak of the tactile bump is almost as strong as at the bottom of the key stroke. Work under the force curve definitely feels lower with the reds, but I'm only comparing single switches on the STN in front of me.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: redpill on Mon, 06 June 2011, 23:56:07: If you have the wherewithall, might as well try out Topre switches. I have the uniform 55g variety, they have satisfying spring to them, like biting into a fresh turgid hunk of lobster dripping in butter. I'm almost worried that using my Realforce too much might make me fat.

I hearby declare Topre to be the shellfish of mechanical keyboards.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Oqsy on Tue, 07 June 2011, 02:15:40: No.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: nhwhaup on Tue, 07 June 2011, 02:58:35: I have tried a few mechanical switch keyboards as well as topres. I use them only for regular typing. I don't game. I would also say that I get some hand pain if I overdo typing and don't take breaks. I've never really asked the doc or been diagnosed with any specific condition. However, I can say I notice a huge difference on pain or no pain depending on which keyboard I use. I think I ended trying at least 7 different keyboards in the last couple of months before finishing my search. I ended up keeping the Filco Majestouch 2 with Reds and a Realforce tenkeyless with the variable weighted keys. Both of these keyboards have very light touch although very different feel to them. I ended up liking the Filco with reds the best and so much so that I purchased a 2nd one but tenkeyless to keep at home. So basically I'm on the reds most all the time and switch in the Realforce once in a while for a change. I still find myself going back to the reds. I am a touch typist (not real fast - around 60 wpm) with a light touch. I have no problem not having the tactile bump. I rarely bottom out but to prevent the clicking from bottoming out, I put the EliteKeyboards sound dampening pads on the keys. I found that it does cut down the stroke but not enough to change the great light feel of these keys. I guess with the reds you either really like them or they are not for you. I've found my favorite switches in the reds - very light touch, linear feel and nice and quiet. I do agree with others that the Filco keycaps are not at great and tend to shine up in no time. I like white keys much better and have purchased the gray on white keys for my Filcos so now I have the ultimate board for me.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Evil_Spork on Tue, 07 June 2011, 16:51:10: I had a Brown Leopold, then moved to a Majestouch2 red.
I like the reds a lot, pretty much equal to browns.
For gaming I like the reds a LOT. I'm not entirely sure why, but they are awesome. The reds are actually slightly boring when compared to the browns for typing.
For typing I slightly prefer the browns, mostly because the browns feel much more lively when typing.

Your sig says you already have a Leo with browns, so I don't think it's worth the money to get reds, especially if you are not touch typing. The reds are slightly harder for touch typing.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Tue, 07 June 2011, 17:42:09: Great word there Spork, "lively". That's exactly how I'd describe the browns.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Tony on Tue, 07 June 2011, 22:06:02: With red and brown, your fingers will be dancing on the keyboards. For browns, you can press with just the right force when you feel the bump, therefore you can touch type with confidence.

For most who don't touch type, they both are the same. Red may be preferable to them, since bumps are not needed.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Tue, 07 June 2011, 22:48:28: I touch type just fine on the reds, thank you. But I think that's because I have a tendency to bottom out most of the time.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: djones on Wed, 08 June 2011, 02:04:05: noobish question: what are the readily available boards with reds?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: awry on Wed, 08 June 2011, 03:50:40: Quote from: keyboardlover;356184
Touch typing doesn't mean that you never bottom out...

Bottoming out is FINE to do. Especially with the ladies.

This my friend, is why you're getting the cap from me. Not many things make a maniac depressive laugh. By the way, you didn't give me your name so your package was written as KL yah?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: awry on Wed, 08 June 2011, 03:53:15: Quote from: Evil_Spork;356946
I had a Brown Leopold, then moved to a Majestouch2 red.
I like the reds a lot, pretty much equal to browns.
For gaming I like the reds a LOT. I'm not entirely sure why, but they are awesome. The reds are actually slightly boring when compared to the browns for typing.
For typing I slightly prefer the browns, mostly because the browns feel much more lively when typing.

Your sig says you already have a Leo with browns, so I don't think it's worth the money to get reds, especially if you are not touch typing. The reds are slightly harder for touch typing.

Try 30g Topres. You can fart on the keyboard and the keys would actuate...
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 08 June 2011, 06:57:36: I thought I did give my name? I'll have to check my pms...in any case, that's fine! Thanks!
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: calavera on Wed, 08 June 2011, 08:46:41: I enjoy typing on brown, blues, reds. They all have their pros so I just switch between them every time I feel like something else. It's great.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Chobopants on Wed, 08 June 2011, 09:57:21: Quote from: calavera;357283
I enjoy typing on brown, blues, reds. They all have their pros so I just switch between them every time I feel like something else. It's great.

Haha this is exactly what I do too. Toss in Topres too for a little variety. :)
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: canon.tk on Wed, 08 June 2011, 16:24:17: Quote from: Chobopants;357303
Haha this is exactly what I do too. Toss in Topres too for a little variety. :)

This can't be normal.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: hcry4 on Wed, 08 June 2011, 16:45:44: Quote from: canon.tk;357463
This can't be normal.

I think it is standard for Geekhack.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: nhwhaup on Wed, 08 June 2011, 17:29:16: Quote from: hcry4;357474
I think it is standard for Geekhack.

Totally standard!
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Wibox on Wed, 08 June 2011, 18:36:03: (http://alrig.ht/cobsm.png)

From what I hear they are sort of like this.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Wed, 08 June 2011, 20:48:38: Ha, great illustration. Yes they are. Especially on keyboard that is comfortable and curvy in itself, like the Kinesis Advantage LF contoured:
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Wed, 08 June 2011, 21:20:34: Will a person only enjoy Reds if they don't bottom out? It seems to me that I would have to teach my self to touch type, in order to really get the Reds Cloud feeling but then agian, I am only guessing.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Wed, 08 June 2011, 21:23:18: Touch typing is about hitting the right key without looking, has nothing to do with bottoming out or not.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:00:59: Quote from: Tony;357082
With red and brown, your fingers will be dancing on the keyboards. For browns, you can press with just the right force when you feel the bump, therefore you can touch type with confidence.

For most who don't touch type, they both are the same. Red may be preferable to them, since bumps are not needed.

Touch Typing does not mean "depressing the switch just far enough to actuate it". It means hitting the correct key without looking down, but whether you depress it 2mm 3mm or 4mm is an unrelated story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_typing

The alternative to Touch Type is "Hunt and Peck" (looking down at the keys).

In either case, the bump can indeed help you avoid bottoming out. But whether you are touch-typing or hunt-and-pecking is completely orthogonal to bottoming out.

You can touch type (avoid looking at the keys) just the same with any kind of switch.

-- Above message has been touch-typed on cherry reds. And I don't bottom out much because my Kinesis has a configurable electronic "click" sound.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:05:54: Ok, thanks for that explaination on touch typing. But, apparently, Reds have a distinct feel as opposed to Browns. This "cloud" feeling in Reds sounds good but can someone like me who bottoms out, enjoy Reds?
Chobopants?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Chobopants on Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:08:20: Quote from: nhwhaup;357497
Totally standard!

I've bought 5 keyboards that cost over $100 (two of which were over $200) in the past 6 months. Totally normal... :)
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: canon.tk on Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:08:24: I bought a Filco 104 with Reds for a friend and he bottoms out like no other and he likes the reds better than browns.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:12:25: If you bottom out on browns and like them, it means you don't really care for the "bump". So I bet you will enjoy reds (and maybe even blacks).
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:14:29: Also, I need to say that I don't hunt and peck but my typing is medocre while looking at the screen.
Chobopants, what is your typing style and what makes the reds nice for you for typing.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:16:08: @Sordna
That's what I'm wondering about.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:18:39: Quote from: sordna;357708
If you bottom out on browns and like them, it means you don't really care for the "bump". So I bet you will enjoy reds (and maybe even blacks).
I tend to agree with you. I like to bottom out and so then, I'm wondering what I may get out of reds?
Can you or Chobopants explain what I may experience with reds?
I know that chobopants said it's a rising pressure, so it may be like clouds even if I bottom out?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:29:39: Quote from: Chobopants;356231

> Red is brown without the bump.

This is 100% untrue. Browns are nearly pure linear in force with just a bump in the middle. Reds have increasing force the more you depress them, hence the "Cloud of Boobs" effect. If you type on them side by side the difference is very noticeable. They're probably the two most similar boards I own but they have enough difference that I would tell someone to at least try both before making up their minds.

Red is brown without the bump during the last 2mm of the stroke. It's the same spring and it's compressed exactly the same way. I have both. The browns start off stiffer due to the friction involved, but if you push the switch up and down while keeping it below the bump (last 2mm of travel) you'll see they feel the same as the reds. The actuation graphs tell the same story, the brown starts a little stiffer and also has the bump, but by the time you approach the bottom-out point they are both at 60 cN of force.

Force charts for Browns and Reds:
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11339&d=1277307720) (http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11347&stc=1&d=1277344560)

Images courtesy of the Cherry Wiki (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+switches+and+boards)
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 09 June 2011, 08:09:29: After using reds for a few weeks it feels really good to be back on ergo clears. They are definitely my preferred switch for both typing and gaming.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Wibox on Thu, 09 June 2011, 08:11:41: Quote from: keyboardlover;357824
After using reds for a few weeks it feels really good to be back on ergo clears. They are definitely my preferred switch for both typing and gaming.

Hype machine. Is this a social experiment in creating a fad?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 09 June 2011, 08:12:59: No, its the damn honest truth.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Wibox on Thu, 09 June 2011, 08:25:44: I like them too but I miss the click. I still say a blue with a slider that has the feet of a clear would be the best Cherry switch ever. I want to get some prototyped but I'm worried that rapid prototyping material might not be up to par for a switch.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Lester on Thu, 09 June 2011, 10:02:50: Quote from: sordna;357717
Red is brown without the bump during the last 2mm of the stroke. It's the same spring and it's compressed exactly the same way. I have both. The browns start off stiffer due to the friction involved, but if you push the switch up and down while keeping it below the bump (last 2mm of travel) you'll see they feel the same as the reds. The actuation graphs tell the same story, the brown starts a little stiffer and also has the bump, but by the time you approach the bottom-out point they are both at 60 cN of force.

Force charts for Browns and Reds:
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11339&d=1277307720)

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11347&stc=1&d=1277344560)

Images courtesy of the Cherry Wiki (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+switches+and+boards)

So basically red and brown require the same force? :o I've always thought red's were a lot lighter then all the other cherry switches.
How about blue's then? do they require more force then browns or reds? or are they just brown's with a clicky noise?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Chobopants on Thu, 09 June 2011, 10:41:32: Quote from: sordna;357717
Red is brown without the bump during the last 2mm of the stroke. It's the same spring and it's compressed exactly the same way. I have both. The browns start off stiffer due to the friction involved, but if you push the switch up and down while keeping it below the bump (last 2mm of travel) you'll see they feel the same as the reds. The actuation graphs tell the same story, the brown starts a little stiffer and also has the bump, but by the time you approach the bottom-out point they are both at 60 cN of force.

Force charts for Browns and Reds:
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11339&d=1277307720)

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11347&stc=1&d=1277344560)

Images courtesy of the Cherry Wiki (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+switches+and+boards)

Very interesting. I guess the "bump" changes the feel quite a bit for me then. I really don't notice the increasing force on Browns when typing on them but its very noticeable on my Reds.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: morethanless on Thu, 09 June 2011, 10:54:37: I think the increased amount of force before the pressure point on the mx brown switches plus the acceleration when the force drops from 55g to 40g give your fingers a momentum. This leads to not feeling the increase of force from 2mm to 4mm on the mx brown.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Thu, 09 June 2011, 11:38:02: Bingo! Yes, overcoming the bump, gives you a feeling that the resistance is somehow gone. But it's a spring, and it's resistance is always there, and always increasing.
The thing with reds is that it's a perfectly smooth, uninterrupted linear increase of force, so you feel exactly that.
With tactile switches, the bump distorts this feeling, there's a higher resistance in the middle, and when it gives way, you think the resistance is gone because your finger is already pushing down way harder than the spring's remaining force.

Regarding the question about the blues, just check the cherry wiki, there's graphs for all of these switches.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: pitashen on Thu, 09 June 2011, 11:56:24: I would like to quote myself from the first page of this thread.

Quote from: pitashen;356162
Red is brown without the bump.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Lester on Thu, 09 June 2011, 12:09:44: Quote from: pitashen;357919
I would like to quote myself from the first page of this thread.
:o, didn't see that, cheers ;)
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: looserboy on Thu, 09 June 2011, 12:30:06: i put a brown spring into a black switch and tada red switch feeling :D

but honestly.
brown and blue for typing and blacks for gaming :D
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Zet on Thu, 09 June 2011, 12:43:12: IMHO, reds are perfectly fine for typing, but some people really like to have that bump from tactile switches.
On my personal experience, after using my reds for less than a week, I'm enjoying so much the feeling they give you of lightness. Right now, I had to leave my KB on the office, cause I'm home for my lunch break, and typing on this semi old rubber dome ACER keyboard, is not bad, but its trash compared to my filco with reds.

I'm guessing after some time more, I'll get so much used to the reds, I'll bottom out a lot less, and when going to someone elses keyboard would not feel nice since they are so much stiffer compared to my cloud of boobs ^^
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Lester on Thu, 09 June 2011, 13:02:07: Quote from: Zet;357942
IMHO, reds are perfectly fine for typing, but some people really like to have that bump from tactile switches.
On my personal experience, after using my reds for less than a week, I'm enjoying so much the feeling they give you of lightness. Right now, I had to leave my KB on the office, cause I'm home for my lunch break, and typing on this semi old rubber dome ACER keyboard, is not bad, but its trash compared to my filco with reds.

I'm guessing after some time more, I'll get so much used to the reds, I'll bottom out a lot less, and when going to someone elses keyboard would not feel nice since they are so much stiffer compared to my cloud of boobs ^^
Have you ever tried browns? If you did, do reds "feel" lighter then browns while typing on it?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Thu, 09 June 2011, 13:06:19: I have both and reds feel lighter. The most force you need to apply to register the keystroke with reds is about 45 grams. With browns, even though the spring resistance at the operating point is also 45g, you first have to apply 50-55g to overcome the bump.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: noodles256 on Thu, 09 June 2011, 13:34:45: tt meka g1 for everything

/thread
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Thu, 09 June 2011, 16:06:50: Quote from: Lester;357954
Have you ever tried browns? If you did, do reds "feel" lighter then browns while typing on it?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll go ahead and say that for me personally, reds didn't feel lighter than browns until I had typed on them for a while. The bump of browns really makes the browns feel a bit lighter after the bump. On reds, since I bottom out a lot, I feel the last 2mm of the spring pretty heavily, and that makes reds feel a bit stiffer than browns.

Although, after blacks, reds feel like nothing.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: canon.tk on Thu, 09 June 2011, 16:09:32: For me browns feel heavier than reds because of the extra resistance from the bump.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: morethanless on Thu, 09 June 2011, 16:15:49: Try pressing the reds carefully and wiggle up and down about half the way of the keystroke for some time. (like not bottoming out)
Then carefully try to press a brown key with the same amount of pressure. You shouldn't come over the bump easily now.

At least that was my experience from a switch try bag from CeeSA.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Lester on Thu, 09 June 2011, 16:22:00: Thx for your opinions all!

So big dilemma, red vs brown :/
Brown's are easier to get and cheaper, but red's feel more lighter and I think I'd love a very light / easy to press keyboard.
I've been using a Razer Tarantula for a few years, and it's annoying me inside-out.
Glossy-ness, stiff / annoying rubber dome keys, useless macro keys, etc.
How are the browns compared to a rubber dome? Do they feel really light or is it just a small difference? I'd love to have very light keys!
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: canon.tk on Thu, 09 June 2011, 16:24:40: It'll just come down to do you need tactile feed back or not. There's no one on here that can tell you which is better for you, only thing you can do is try each.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: pitashen on Thu, 09 June 2011, 16:29:16: Quote from: Lester;358060
Thx for your opinions all!

So big dilemma, red vs brown :/
Brown's are easier to get and cheaper, but red's feel more lighter and I think I'd love a very light / easy to press keyboard.
I've been using a Razer Tarantula for a few years, and it's annoying me inside-out.
Glossy-ness, stiff / annoying rubber dome keys, useless macro keys, etc.
How are the browns compared to a rubber dome? Do they feel really light or is it just a small difference? I'd love to have very light keys!

Not sure how light you are looking for, but brown switch is usually a pretty safe pick. Great for both typing and gaming.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: morethanless on Thu, 09 June 2011, 16:36:51: I'm now at the same point as Lester.
I don't have a mechanical keyboard yet, but participated in an switch try bag.
My two favorites are brown and red.

I shall buy both, but I don't know which to buy first
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Lester on Thu, 09 June 2011, 16:43:26: Quote from: morethanless;358069
I'm now at the same point as Lester.
I don't have a mechanical keyboard yet, but participated in an switch try bag.
My two favorites are brown and red.

I shall buy both, but I don't know which to buy first
What is this a switch try bag? And how to aquire one?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: morethanless on Thu, 09 June 2011, 16:46:31: It was over at deskthority.

There is one, that is for Germans and in the 2nd round for Europeans. http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=780
I don't now how the one from mr.interface is going http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Lester on Thu, 09 June 2011, 16:48:16: Quote from: morethanless;358072
It was over at deskthority.

There is one, that is for Germans and in the 2nd round for Europeans. http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=780
I don't now how the one from mr.interface is going http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64
Hmm interesting, thx for the link!
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Thu, 09 June 2011, 21:09:07: Quote from: sordna;357956
I have both and reds feel lighter. The most force you need to apply to register the keystroke with reds is about 45 grams. With browns, even though the spring resistance at the operating point is also 45g, you first have to apply 50-55g to overcome the bump.

So, wouldn't browns be more like blues then? Also, would you say that Reds would be the best bet for me if I have achey wrists/hands? Or, would I be better off learning to type lightly on a tactile switch to relieve pressure? Or what is your recommendation? Thanks.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 09 June 2011, 21:17:13: Engine, have you tried ergo clears yet?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Thu, 09 June 2011, 21:28:55: Quote from: keyboardlover;358193
Engine, have you tried ergo clears yet?

Actually, I was thinking on asking you where to get them?
But I thought that clears were relatively stiff, at I think 55g?
What makes them ergo?
And again, wouldn't reds be the most ergo Cherry switch, depending how I type maybe?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Dox on Thu, 09 June 2011, 21:30:30: Quote from: Engine;358202
Actually, I was thinking on asking you where to get them? I thought that clears were relatively stiff, at I think 55g? What makes them ergo?

A blue or brown spring.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 09 June 2011, 23:07:06: Unfortunately, you can't really buy them. You have to mod a keyboard yourself, replacing the springs (if pcb-mounted which is the easiest way).

See the link in my sig for details (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:17248).
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Chobopants on Fri, 10 June 2011, 09:56:10: Quote from: Engine;357703
Ok, thanks for that explaination on touch typing. But, apparently, Reds have a distinct feel as opposed to Browns. This "cloud" feeling in Reds sounds good but can someone like me who bottoms out, enjoy Reds?
Chobopants?

Sorry, I missed this. People were posting so much I missed a page!

Anyway, I bottom out just not super hard. I've learned to use the force slope of the reds to moderate my bottoming out. I hit the PCB with almost every keystroke but I can type gently enough that it's not really stressing anything in my hands. This is actually greatly beneficial to me as it forces me to not slam my fingers down and possibly hurt my tendons.

I love browns a little bit more for gaming but I feel the bump reduces my ability to gently type because the force that I use to get over the bump makes it tougher for me to gently moderate me slamming down on the keys. Now that was a sentence.

Anyway, I love all three of my light switches quite a bit. When TKC has those bright white boards with black switches in stock I'll probably grab one just to see what I think about it. If I want a bit more resistance and feedback while typing I grab my Realforce and feel some oneness with cup rubber but Reds are my daily driver at work.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Fri, 10 June 2011, 10:04:34: I'm just the opposite. I'm a fairly light typist myself, but I have such big hands that even when I type lightly I still apply plenty of force. I find that browns are better for me as an everyday driver, with reds/blacks being relegated to my home/gaming rig.

It's all about personal preference. To Lester: I wouldn't worry about it right now. Get whichever one you're gut tells you to. I guarantee that you'll be itchin to get another one fairly soon, and then you can try the other switch :)
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Chobopants on Fri, 10 June 2011, 10:44:20: Quote from: daerid;358404
I'm just the opposite. I'm a fairly light typist myself, but I have such big hands that even when I type lightly I still apply plenty of force. I find that browns are better for me as an everyday driver, with reds/blacks being relegated to my home/gaming rig.

It's all about personal preference. To Lester: I wouldn't worry about it right now. Get whichever one you're gut tells you to. I guarantee that you'll be itchin to get another one fairly soon, and then you can try the other switch :)

Yeah, what it basically boils down to and why these threads end up not being the most useful is you just never know what you're going to like until you try it. Everyone has different preferences and what someone thinks will likely be different than what you think. That's why I try my best to never say that one switch is better than another because everyone likes something a little different.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: litster on Fri, 10 June 2011, 10:59:09: I just received my white Filco with MX red. It is very light. Lighter than brown, as well as my Realforce 86U. It is actually very nice to type with. I do bottom out most of the time, the bottom out sound is nice. I have been using it today and I enjoy typing on it.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Chobopants on Fri, 10 June 2011, 11:31:34: Yeah man, it's my favorite 'board. :) I probably love my Brown just a tad more as a general use workhorse but this is the keyboard I'd bring with me on a trip and show off to the ladies at the club.

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5149/5765346097_56d96b4000_z.jpg)
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Lester on Fri, 10 June 2011, 11:37:52: Quote from: litster;358447
I just received my white Filco with MX red. It is very light. Lighter than brown, as well as my Realforce 86U. It is actually very nice to type with. I do bottom out most of the time, the bottom out sound is nice. I have been using it today and I enjoy typing on it.

You enjoy it more then brown switches? Or they're just "different" and none of them is better then the other?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: morethanless on Fri, 10 June 2011, 11:38:45: Where did you get these shiny white key caps from?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Fri, 10 June 2011, 11:45:12: Quote from: morethanless;358489
Where did you get these shiny white key caps from?

PBT Group Buy in the Group Buys forum
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Haes on Fri, 10 June 2011, 11:48:41: For Typing Reds are okay for me, but for gaming halleluja !!! Best so far. Buying one for my gaming rig for sure.
I love-hate browns. Love less resistance, hate that awful tactil response. It's mushy. If you spamming hard, you don't feel the bump at all. If you typing slow, there you feel this mushy bump.
For Typing i love mx blues. Precise bump, very direct and I love the resistance and the click. Gaming on them is still good.

Conclusion: Typing - Blues, Gaming - Reds.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Lester on Fri, 10 June 2011, 12:02:35: Quote from: Haes;358498
For Typing Reds are okay for me, but for gaming halleluja !!! Best so far. Buying one for my gaming rig for sure.
I love-hate browns. Love less resistance, hate that awful tactil response. It's mushy. If you spamming hard, you don't feel the bump at all. If you typing slow, there you feel this mushy bump.
For Typing i love mx blues. Precise bump, very direct and I love the resistance and the click. Gaming on them is still good.

Conclusion: Typing - Blues, Gaming - Reds.
Browns are mushy? :S
Which keyboard with brows have you tried?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Haes on Fri, 10 June 2011, 12:04:44: Zowie Celeritas and CeeSA's Try Gaming Switch Bag so far. Wanna love to try Filco MJ Brown, but on the switch bag the feeling didn't change.
Yeah compared to blues there are kinda "mushy".
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: BababooeyHTJ on Fri, 10 June 2011, 13:57:09: Quote from: Chobopants;358480
Yeah man, it's my favorite 'board. :) I probably love my Brown just a tad more as a general use workhorse but this is the keyboard I'd bring with me on a trip and show off to the ladies at the club.

Show Image
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5149/5765346097_56d96b4000_z.jpg)

Those white keycaps look so good on that board.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Fri, 10 June 2011, 17:09:10: Quote from: Chobopants;358401
Sorry, I missed this. People were posting so much I missed a page!

Anyway, I bottom out just not super hard. I've learned to use the force slope of the reds to moderate my bottoming out. I hit the PCB with almost every keystroke but I can type gently enough that it's not really stressing anything in my hands. This is actually greatly beneficial to me as it forces me to not slam my fingers down and possibly hurt my tendons.

I love browns a little bit more for gaming but I feel the bump reduces my ability to gently type because the force that I use to get over the bump makes it tougher for me to gently moderate me slamming down on the keys. Now that was a sentence.

Anyway, I love all three of my light switches quite a bit. When TKC has those bright white boards with black switches in stock I'll probably grab one just to see what I think about it. If I want a bit more resistance and feedback while typing I grab my Realforce and feel some oneness with cup rubber but Reds are my daily driver at work.

1. since you bottom out, then you're saying that you still experience the "cloud" effect?
2. Do you recommend this switch for RSI vs Brown, since brown has that sightly heavier initial weight before the actuation(bump)?
3. Do you have problems using Topre 55g? Do you think that "Blacks" could pose a tendon issue?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: litster on Fri, 10 June 2011, 20:02:29: Quote from: Lester;358488
You enjoy it more then brown switches? Or they're just "different" and none of them is better then the other?

I like brown. I sold a Filco otaku brown and then I bought back a Filco ninja brown because I missed it. It is on its way. I liked brown when I had it. It felt very similar to red, just with the extra bump. I think I still like my Realforce 86U most, but the red is very close. I will have my brown next to all the others next week to do side-by-side comparison.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: pat on Sat, 11 June 2011, 14:11:08: I have a filco red and really really like it for typing. I'm a unix admin and type all day long, I have 2 realforce keyboards on my linux desktops...one at work and one at home, and the filco red on my primary desktop at home (mac). I also have a filco with brown switches, and like the reds way better. Red feel similar to the realforce topre switches to me, but sound a lot different. The topre are real quiet, the reds still clack when bottoming out, which I do on every key stroke. I can't make up my mind which I like better, the realforce or red filco.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: litster on Sat, 11 June 2011, 14:13:33: Welcome, pat! I am like you, both Realforce Topre and Filco Red are my favs.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Sat, 11 June 2011, 14:16:14: Welcome to Geekhack!
If you want to avoid the clack, you can install some o-rings in your keycaps, best found so far is part number 2418T114 at McMaster-Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com/#as568a-o-rings/
Or you can get the gray Soft-Landing pads from elite keyboards.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: pat on Sat, 11 June 2011, 14:40:59: Thanks for the welcome!

I saw those soft-landing pads, has anyone tried & reviewed them yet? I'm not sure I don't mind the clack, but I'd be curious if they give the keyboard more of a topre switch feel because of the sound?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: nhwhaup on Sat, 11 June 2011, 15:00:26: Quote from: pat;359058
Thanks for the welcome!

I saw those soft-landing pads, has anyone tried & reviewed them yet? I'm not sure I don't mind the clack, but I'd be curious if they give the keyboard more of a topre switch feel because of the sound?

I have two Filcos with reds and have the soft landing pads on both. One set is the firm and the other is the soft. I installed the pads so there really is no opportunity for bottoming out clicking. I don't feel that they change the feel of the keys very much. A little less travel but not enough to change the typing. The main difference is it quiets down the click if you tend to bottom out. I really don't feel that they give the reds a topre feel - not at all in my opinion. I like the feel of topres but like the reds even better.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Sat, 11 June 2011, 15:00:31: The feel definitely changes, because apart from the sound reduction, bottoming out becomes softer, like a shock absorber. Actually that was the main reason I did this mod, to make bottoming out gentler on the fingers. The soft-landing pad have better shock-absorption effect. The o-rings have it less, so they don't change the feel of the keyboard as much, IMO. I am using both solutions in my 2 main keyboards, still undecided which one I like better. But I definitely like having either of these rather than a stock clacky keyboard.

Here are some threads discussing all of these and more:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:5450
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:8857
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17511-EK-s-quot-Soft-Landing-quot-Pads-for-Cherry-MX/
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: pat on Sat, 11 June 2011, 15:16:06: This is rad, thanks! I just ordered one of each (soft & hard) pads from elitekeyboards.com. I'll try them in both my red & brown filcos, I'm real curious if it'll make me like the mx brown switches more. I already really like the reds, this might make me like them more, we shall see.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: pat on Sat, 11 June 2011, 15:21:21: Just ordered some of those o-rings too (2418T114), something else to try.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Sat, 11 June 2011, 16:37:45: Haha, trying them all like me:

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18504&d=1306217521)

but if you haven't tried this keyboard, you really should !!!
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Sat, 11 June 2011, 16:38:41: The clack of a keyboard is the main thing that makes it endearing to me. I can't stand quiet boards.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: nhwhaup on Sat, 11 June 2011, 16:44:44: Quote from: pat;359091
This is rad, thanks! I just ordered one of each (soft & hard) pads from elitekeyboards.com. I'll try them in both my red & brown filcos, I'm real curious if it'll make me like the mx brown switches more. I already really like the reds, this might make me like them more, we shall see.

For me I absolutely love the reds and the soft landing pads just make them that much better. Do you have the full sized keyboards or the tenkeyless?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Sat, 11 June 2011, 16:47:54: Daerid, even with the pads / o-rings, you still get plenty of clack. It's just right. Here is the above pictured Kinesis, MX Red switches, and o-rings. Although I'm trying to make the upstroke clack on purpose in this sample. And I should mention I have the configurable speaker "click" feature of this awesome keyboard turned on.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Sat, 11 June 2011, 16:56:10: I'd like to hear reds with the dampening pads on something like a Filco. Has that been posted before?
Title: Sound of red MX cherries with silicone o-rings on a Kinesis
Post by: sordna on Sat, 11 June 2011, 17:07:16: Don't have a Filco, but here's a clip I just took with the click turned off. I am using silicone o-rings (durometer 40A) which is a bit more firm that the gray soft-landing pads. I have the gray pads in my keyboard at work, which make it very slightly quieter. I am bottoming out the keys, and the main sound you hear is the upstroke. The downstroke is quieted pretty good.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Sat, 11 June 2011, 18:48:51: They offer it with reds as a special order for $325. They seem to build them in a couple of days!
More about this keyboard, called Advantage LF (for Linear Feel) here:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18200-Kinesis-Advantage-LF-%28Linear-Feel-Cherry-MX-Red-switches%29-shipped
and here:
http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=748

It's really amazing, the layout, the electronic "click" for feedback, and the red cherries make an awesome keyboard... it's typing heaven!
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: pat on Sat, 11 June 2011, 18:57:05: Quote from: nhwhaup;359123
For me I absolutely love the reds and the soft landing pads just make them that much better. Do you have the full sized keyboards or the tenkeyless?

All my keyboards are tenkeyless :) ...never been a number pad user.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Sat, 11 June 2011, 19:10:01: Same here. You could call the Kinesis a tenkeyless, it has 86 keys and no numpad. However it has a 2nd layer, that activates an embedded numpad. You can also remap the keys any way you like. I have both the regular model with browns, and the LF with reds, and I must say I like the Red switches way more than the browns. I've been using browns for years, and reds for about a month now.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Input Nirvana on Sat, 11 June 2011, 19:25:23: Quote from: keyboardlover;356184
Touch typing doesn't mean that you never bottom out...

Bottoming out is FINE to do. Especially with the ladies.

BA-DA-BINGBANG!

Was that your...cervix?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Sat, 11 June 2011, 22:12:37: I'm not intot the kinesis thing. The closest I'll come to "ergo" is a mechanical board with lighter switches, like the browns/topre I have now and the Red I may get down the road.
I do have RSI issues and they do help a LOT!. =)
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Sat, 11 June 2011, 23:04:46: Well, for RSI a good light switch helps but is usually not enough. You need to change the hand positioning as well, which is were ergo keyboards come in. I consider the Kinesis one of the very best ergo keyboards in the world. It terms of value it's clearly the best. There are some others like the maltron, uTron, datahand, but cost double or triple the Kinesis price.
Not only it helps with RSI, the layout is so intuitive, you never even have to look at it. Mine lives on a keyboard tray under my desk, I don't see it while typing, and I was not much of a touch typist until I got it, but the key locations are so predictable, within weeks I could touch type all letters/numbers/symbols, basically everything except function keys. It's like my brain is connected to the USB port, that's how intuitive this keyboard is. I never had this feeling as a computer professional in the years before I got the Kinesis (around 2004).
I wish I had bought one much earlier than I did, it would help both my productivity and my hands.
It's a also a beauty, especially spiced up. Here's a painted one off the net. Mine is the checkered one further below.

(http://joshcarter.com/images/miscellany/keyboard_finished_quarter.jpg)
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: litster on Sat, 11 June 2011, 23:18:26: I have the Kinesis with browns at work, but it has been hard for me to get used to it. It doesn't help that I keep trying to type on my other new, regularly-shaped keyboards. I can type OK with it, but I need to look at the keyboard for my shortcut keys with CTRL and ALT, and I always screw up with the arrow keys. Any tips on how to get better at typing on the Kinesis?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Sat, 11 June 2011, 23:42:58: Quote from: litster;359297
I have the Kinesis with browns at work, but it has been hard for me to get used to it. It doesn't help that I keep trying to type on my other new, regularly-shaped keyboards. I can type OK with it, but I need to look at the keyboard for my shortcut keys with CTRL and ALT, and I always screw up with the arrow keys. Any tips on how to get better at typing on the Kinesis?

Tip #1: Avoid one-handed key combos. Alway hit the modifier with one hand, and the letter with the other.

Tip #2: I had trouble with the up/down arrow keys too. Coming from vi (vim) I'm used to "down" being my index finger, and "up" my middle finger, so I swapped up/down and never had a problem since, in fact I've grown to like them more than the standard arrow keys because I don't have to move my hands at all from the typing position to use the arrows.

Tip #3: Take advantage of the remap feature. If a particular key is not where you like it, remap it. I swapped TAB and DELETE because use TAB a lot and prefer to have it on my thumb. I also swapped ESC and END because I wanted to use Escape with my thumb too.

Tip #4: It might help to use the Kinesis as much as possible until you get comfortable with it, and avoid other keyboards if you can. Once you learn it well, you can switch back and forth different boards with no problem.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: litster on Sun, 12 June 2011, 13:02:04: Thanks for the tip. Will give them a try.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Mon, 13 June 2011, 20:14:14: Oooooooooh shiz son. I might actually be liking my reds more than my browns... and that's a dilemna :-o
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: manfaux on Mon, 13 June 2011, 20:31:50: just like some of the GHer stated above, I thought I'd hate Red for lacking tactile feedback, but they're actually surprisingly comfortable for typing! I already ditched my Blues for the reds as a daily driver.

as far as gaming goes, I play mostly starcraft and still likes tactile when gaming, I assume Reds will be pretty good for FPS just like the Blacks, but the RTS I need the tactile confirmation.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: pat on Mon, 13 June 2011, 23:51:39: I got my mc master carr o-rings today. Put them on my red filco...I'm still trying to make up my mind how I like them. I think I grow more used to the lack of clack the more I use them and am starting to like. It does come closer to the noise level of the realforce, but no lower frequency *thunk*.

I think that the very slight decrease in distance to bottoming out every key press might of actually helped typing speed. Anyone else notice that, or is it mental?

I'm still waiting on the soft-landing pads to try out.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Tue, 14 June 2011, 00:14:17: There is a small decrease in key travel, like half a millimeter. I'm starting to think o-rings are actually better than the pads, because with the o-rings you can tell when you bottom out (and avoid it). The pads are so shock-absorbing, it's hard to tell, and sometimes it makes you push the keys harder than you need. Also the o-rings provide a slight rebound which may indeed make you type a bit faster, but still don't feel as jarring to your fingers as an unmodded switch does. The pads, especially the black ones, have the opposite effect, they feel like landing into mush.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: dreamingftw on Tue, 14 June 2011, 01:36:26: what's the cheapest mx keyboard out there... I would want to try some with all of this talk about them. And how would ghetto reds compare? Thanks.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: hcry4 on Tue, 14 June 2011, 10:14:27: Quote from: dreamingftw;360478
And how would ghetto reds compare?

According to ripster, ghetto reds = standard reds.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: dreamingftw on Tue, 14 June 2011, 10:52:24: sweet... might just try the mod then and not have to waste money on another board...
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Wed, 15 June 2011, 20:23:30: Chobopants,
What rank does your Red Filco land at for favorite "typing" switch? I know this is a pref question but I'm interested in why/if you like Reds for typing?
Also, for the extra premium, is the Red Filco worth the cost for the "difference" in feel, say vs the Browns, etc?
Also, is the Topre 55g a bit stiff on your tendons? How does it compare to Browns/Reds for ease on your tendons? I'm considering getting a Topre "55g".
I had to give up my Unicomp and I think the Blues might be alright but the Topre variable and Browns are really nice on my hands.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Chobopants on Thu, 16 June 2011, 13:41:04: Quote from: Engine;361434
Chobopants,
What rank does your Red Filco land at for favorite "typing" switch? I know this is a pref question but I'm interested in why/if you like Reds for typing?
Also, for the extra premium, is the Red Filco worth the cost for the "difference" in feel, say vs the Browns, etc?
Also, is the Topre 55g a bit stiff on your tendons? How does it compare to Browns/Reds for ease on your tendons? I'm considering getting a Topre "55g".
I had to give up my Unicomp and I think the Blues might be alright but the Topre variable and Browns are really nice on my hands.

Well... I had a huge post typed up here but Chrome decided to screw me, sweet.

Summary:

- If I could have only one board it would be my full-size Browns. It's the jack of all trades and master of none. Equally above average in all categories.

- The reds are pretty neat and if you're SUPER sensitive about finger pain they're a great choice, generally not worth the premium, though, honestly. I use them for my daily driver at work for the gentleness.

- For PURE typing fun, toss up between Blues vs Topre. It's all taste. Blues are CLICK CLICK CLICK and Topre are super solid low-pitched *thock thock thock*. Topres won't keep anyone up at night. 55g doesn't hurt my tendons unless I type on it for a LONG time.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Thu, 16 June 2011, 18:29:23: Thanks for all of that. I too really dig my Browns and consider them to be the perfect "middle" ground keyboard and would also pick them if I had to choose only one.
While my Topre is still my favorite, I consider Browns to be "little bro" to Topre, as they have a lighter, yet similar thock and for that reason, run a very close second to Topre for me . I also have and really like Blues but switch to them when I'm in the mood for that light "hardware" sound. At least that's how it sounds to me anway.
Reds, then will wait as I was between serious curiosity and economic sense.
I may spring for one down the road after I finish reeling from all the keyboard expense I've suffered in the last few months.
In the end, I'm planning to sell my Leos and my Wife's black variable Topre, as she actually prefered the Filco Brown I just got her.
I got one of those for my Mom as well. She prefered it too.
I'm still working on getting my Filco line up and my sig should be updated soon.
I have a Filco Blue NIB here and a Brown coming soon. I'm watching for a uniform Topre next.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: noodles256 on Thu, 16 June 2011, 18:34:06: Quote from: Engine;362023
Thanks for all of that. I too really dig my Browns and consider them to be the perfect "middle" ground keyboard. While my Topre is still my favorite, I consider Browns to be "little bro" to Topre, as they have a lighter, yet similar thock and for that reason, run second to Topre for me . I also have and really like Blues but switch to them when I'm in the mood for that light "hardware" sound. At least that's how it sounds to me anway.
Reds, then will wait as I was between serious curiosity and economic sense.
I may spring for one down the road after I finish reeling from all the keyboard expense I've suffered in the last few months.
In the end, I'm planning to sell my Leos and my Wife's black variable Topre, as she actually prefered the Filco Brown I just got her.
I got one of those for my Mom as well. She prefered it too.
I'm still working on getting my Filco line up and my sig should be updated soon.
I have a Filco Blue NIB here and a Brown coming soon. I'm watching for a uniform Topre next.

one is on ebay, for 320, OBO
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Thu, 16 June 2011, 18:42:13: If you're talking about "Reds", then I would get one from The Keyboard Co, as it's about $258 USD.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: noodles256 on Thu, 16 June 2011, 18:43:54: whoops, forgot to mention it was a tenkeyless uniform topre 55g
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: RiGS on Thu, 16 June 2011, 18:56:25: It has a nice roof as well.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Thu, 16 June 2011, 20:05:14: Oh, I see. Well, I wonder what they'll go for from EK, as He says he's working on one, although no date yet. It'll be white but the weight is unknown. I'm gonna guess 45g but would hope for 55g, as I see little difference from 45g uniform to variable.
Thanks for the ebay headsup.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Oqsy on Thu, 16 June 2011, 20:48:55: Sill no.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Thu, 16 June 2011, 22:11:37: Why?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Zhuni on Fri, 17 June 2011, 08:30:57: Quote from: Engine;362072
Oh, I see. Well, I wonder what they'll go for from EK, as He says he's working on one, although no date yet. It'll be white but the weight is unknown. I'm gonna guess 45g but would hope for 55g, as I see little difference from 45g uniform to variable.
Thanks for the ebay headsup.

Keyboardco should be getting uniform black TKL 45g topres in about a month. I know because I'm getting one. :D
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Chobopants on Fri, 17 June 2011, 09:05:36: Quote from: Zhuni;362317
Keyboardco should be getting uniform black TKL 45g topres in about a month. I know because I'm getting one. :D

Blerg with the TKL. Tenkeyless! Too many acronyms throw people off!
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Fri, 17 June 2011, 09:08:03: I fully support and will continue to use TKL
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Fri, 17 June 2011, 09:26:49: Quote from: ripster;362348
TKL makes mediocre guitar cases.

You really should try Ameritage.
Show Image
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2458/5841956363_749d9ec2f1_z.jpg)

As far as guitar cases go, I will give those a shot. But as far as keyboard acronyms, I'm stickin by TKL
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Zhuni on Fri, 17 June 2011, 12:13:16: Quote from: Chobopants;362342
Blerg with the TKL. Tenkeyless! Too many acronyms throw people off!

I'm typing on a crappy net book keyboard. Once I get my topre I shall switch from TKL to tenkeyless for the pure joy of typing :p
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Oqsy on Fri, 17 June 2011, 14:47:19: Quote from: ripster;362349
Oqsy complains about me not being helpful to noobs?

When did I ever say that?
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: rsantos97 on Fri, 17 June 2011, 21:13:49: I got my Filco tenkeyless red today, and so far I think the keys feel great when pressing them. I think I have to get a little more used to this keyboard though because I still prefer my Choc Mini. Maybe with a little more use I will like it better than the Choc.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Fri, 17 June 2011, 21:32:03: Ripster, if you haven't tried a Kinesis Advantage, your vast knowledge remains limited to 1800s staggered pushrod typewriter layouts that get pushed down our throats by almost every keyboard manufacturer, including Filco. Zig-zag asymmetric arrangements are horrible, and make no sense whatsoever.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Fri, 17 June 2011, 22:35:06: Do you know why the numpad has straight columns? Because it was not inherited by the pushrod typewriters, so they were free to arrange the keys in sensible locations.
Imagine a zig-zagged numpad. Yep, that's exactly how ridiculous the mainstream keyboard layout is. Even Kinesis went with staggered layout with the Freestyle keyboard, I was very disappointed about that.
Alas, I guess the only hope for the world to move away from the ridiculous staggered arrangement, would be if Microsoft or Apple produces a straight-column keyboard :-(
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: sordna on Fri, 17 June 2011, 23:04:43: Thanks, I will. I might also ask the keyboard Oracle if there's any hope for mankind to be saved from the asymmetrical staggering keyboard torture. Look at the Truly Ergonomic preorders. The non-staggered design is selling like hotcakes even though there's no actual keyboard in sight. Unbelievable.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Engine on Sat, 18 June 2011, 08:44:23: I only shop for switches.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Tony on Tue, 29 November 2011, 03:53:47: I have just bought a Noppoo Choc with red switches and I think for typing it is ok. Not bad but I prefer blue and brown for pure typing.

I strive to type with almost 100% accuracy and without the bump I cannot be so sure that the keys are registered. On the other hands, type with reds make you typing a little bit easier, you use less force to press.

For reds, you will find that they are so light. The booby typing feel is well known and much admired, repeating keys is very smooth and I am sure that for playing FPS it is the best keyboard.

(http://images2.makefive.com/images/entertainment/celebrity/top-5-hottest-pics-of-lucy-pinder/lucy-pinder-hot-booby-covered-pic-7.jpg)
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: paradox on Wed, 30 November 2011, 20:16:57: I'm still new but I own two keyboards with blues and reds. I'm not sure which I prefer yet. I switch back and forth but I will say this.

Reds are really light, quiet, and easy on the fingers. They do make some sound especially when they bottom out and I kind of like it. I definitely like the loud clicks of the blues more but like I said sometimes my mood varies.

I used to play FPS games a lot on PC, still do a little, and the way blue switches actuate would get on my nerves. For gaming I would prefer the reds.
Title: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Babbylar on Wed, 30 November 2011, 22:25:19: This summer, I took a trip to Japan. While I was there, I bought the Leopold FC500RR at the Cleverly Keyboard shop in Tokyo. That place is amazing since I was able to try out all the popular mechanical keyswitches on the spot (minus Buckling spring or Cherry MX Clears). I settled with the Leopold brand since it was the cheapest mechanical keyboard there with both a US layout and Cherry Red keyswitches. I wanted Cherry Reds because I have a Compaq MX-11800 with Cherry Browns at home. I liked the lightness of the browns but wanted a linear switch for when I played first person shooters. Since i got back, i find myself only using the Cherry Red board since i prefer the standard layout over the wacky Compaq one. The only caution I can give about the Cherry reds is that you need to be aware of how to type. That may sound silly but, if you get carried away, you may find yourself starting to tyyppee likke thiss. This is because the keys are so light and there is no bump to guide you. You may tend to accidentally double press a key. So for me, Layout is more important than switch. Cherry Reds are excellent switches, just know your limits and plan accordingly.
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: moosedawg on Fri, 10 November 2017, 06:57:44: Quote from: Tony on Mon, 06 June 2011, 05:10:18

If you touch type in Red, you will never be sure whether a key is pressed or not, which makes you slow down a bit.

No offense, but that's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. Most people that touch type are watching the screen and seeing/reading what they just typed. It's pretty obvious when you don't press a key all the way - what you just typed won't show up on your screen. So, unless you're watching TV or staring out the window while you type, you're going to know immediately that you didn't hit the key. The actuation point on a red switch is exactly the same as a brown, you just don't get that little bump with the red. Honestly, I can barely feel the tactile on the brown when I get to typing fast, so it makes almost no different to me whatsoever. You can easily train yourself to type softer on the reds and not bottom out all the time, your fingers will develop the muscle memory in no time if you're paying attention.
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 10 November 2017, 07:18:15: Finally that settles that after 6 years....

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: chyros on Fri, 10 November 2017, 17:33:48: Red boils down to a simple thing...

It's better than brown.
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: daerid on Sat, 11 November 2017, 00:30:09: Holy necro-thread, Batman.

FWIW: I can't stand typing on reds. The bump is subtle, but it's important. Reds make my hands strain and hurt. Browns, not so much.
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: drducc on Fri, 06 April 2018, 20:57:50: Quote from: Tony on Mon, 06 June 2011, 05:10:18
If you don't touch type, then Red are very good for typing, since you are bottoming out each key.

If you touch type, ability to feel the actuation point of brown can help you type faster. You don't have to bottom out each key, so you are able to hover over your keyboard and type with just enough force.

If you touch type in Red, you will never be sure whether a key is pressed or not, which makes you slow down a bit.

Touch typing refers to not looking at the keyboard while typing. It doesn't mean not bottoming the keys out.
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: zappysnap on Sat, 07 April 2018, 08:58:55: Quote from: daerid on Mon, 06 June 2011, 01:28:48
I'm gonna take a different approach here and say that I do like the reds for typing (I'm on my MJ2 Linear-R right now), but I prefer the browns more. As awesome as the light touch of the reds is, I do prefer the feedback and general "snappy-ness" of the browns for coding/writing. The reds are on my gaming machine, and I have my Browns at work (I'm a programmer).

Quote from: daerid on Sat, 11 November 2017, 00:30:09
Holy necro-thread, Batman.

FWIW: I can't stand typing on reds. The bump is subtle, but it's important. Reds make my hands strain and hurt. Browns, not so much.

Wow...what a difference 6+ years makes to your opinion.
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Kapitalist on Thu, 12 April 2018, 23:19:33: I don't have much to add to the discussion aside from my own opinion. I was using a Topre RealForce for years and never thought I would buy or use another keyboard. Started getting into looking at different keycaps and artisans and bought some Miami double shots on mass drop on a whim. I thought it would be a waste but decided to build an MX board for the heck of it and got a cheap MX Red board off Amazon. Got some cheap o-rings and now... I love this damn thing. Reds are great for typing, I never game and just use mine for work and I love the feel, especially with the dampening rings on them. Try em out!

That aside I'm curious to trying some other light linear switches to compare. Hate clicks or tactile switches personally, clicky is too damn loud and tactile just feels gritty and awful to me. What's better than Cherry Reds aside from Topre?
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: macclack on Thu, 12 April 2018, 23:39:33: Quote from: Kapitalist on Thu, 12 April 2018, 23:19:33
I don't have much to add to the discussion aside from my own opinion. I was using a Topre RealForce for years and never thought I would buy or use another keyboard. Started getting into looking at different keycaps and artisans and bought some Miami double shots on mass drop on a whim. I thought it would be a waste but decided to build an MX board for the heck of it and got a cheap MX Red board off Amazon. Got some cheap o-rings and now... I love this damn thing. Reds are great for typing, I never game and just use mine for work and I love the feel, especially with the dampening rings on them. Try em out!

That aside I'm curious to trying some other light linear switches to compare. Hate clicks or tactile switches personally, clicky is too damn loud and tactile just feels gritty and awful to me. What's better than Cherry Reds aside from Topre?

Go for silent reds or maybe zilents. You'll get more key travel than a MX red with an o-ring mod.
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 13 April 2018, 09:30:16: I like them for typing. For long term use they may not be ideal though.
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Kapitalist on Tue, 24 April 2018, 23:54:56: Quote from: macclack on Thu, 12 April 2018, 23:39:33
Quote from: Kapitalist on Thu, 12 April 2018, 23:19:33
I don't have much to add to the discussion aside from my own opinion. I was using a Topre RealForce for years and never thought I would buy or use another keyboard. Started getting into looking at different keycaps and artisans and bought some Miami double shots on mass drop on a whim. I thought it would be a waste but decided to build an MX board for the heck of it and got a cheap MX Red board off Amazon. Got some cheap o-rings and now... I love this damn thing. Reds are great for typing, I never game and just use mine for work and I love the feel, especially with the dampening rings on them. Try em out!

That aside I'm curious to trying some other light linear switches to compare. Hate clicks or tactile switches personally, clicky is too damn loud and tactile just feels gritty and awful to me. What's better than Cherry Reds aside from Topre?

Go for silent reds or maybe zilents. You'll get more key travel than a MX red with an o-ring mod.

Just ordered a 40% with silent red Gaterons. Always assumed Gaterons were inferior to Cherry because they were cheaper but I've heard good things to contrary so looking forward to trying these out!
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: nguyenhimself on Wed, 25 April 2018, 11:27:56: Quote from: Kapitalist on Tue, 24 April 2018, 23:54:56
Quote from: macclack on Thu, 12 April 2018, 23:39:33
Quote from: Kapitalist on Thu, 12 April 2018, 23:19:33
I don't have much to add to the discussion aside from my own opinion. I was using a Topre RealForce for years and never thought I would buy or use another keyboard. Started getting into looking at different keycaps and artisans and bought some Miami double shots on mass drop on a whim. I thought it would be a waste but decided to build an MX board for the heck of it and got a cheap MX Red board off Amazon. Got some cheap o-rings and now... I love this damn thing. Reds are great for typing, I never game and just use mine for work and I love the feel, especially with the dampening rings on them. Try em out!

That aside I'm curious to trying some other light linear switches to compare. Hate clicks or tactile switches personally, clicky is too damn loud and tactile just feels gritty and awful to me. What's better than Cherry Reds aside from Topre?

Go for silent reds or maybe zilents. You'll get more key travel than a MX red with an o-ring mod.

Just ordered a 40% with silent red Gaterons. Always assumed Gaterons were inferior to Cherry because they were cheaper but I've heard good things to contrary so looking forward to trying these out!

At this point I think the general consensus re. MX switches is that:
- Linear: Gateron > Cherry.
- Clicky: Kailh Box > Cherry.
- Tactile: Zealio > Cherry, depending on where you stand re. graininess and wobbleness.
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: killyou on Wed, 25 April 2018, 15:03:56: Quote from: nguyenhimself on Wed, 25 April 2018, 11:27:56
Quote from: Kapitalist on Tue, 24 April 2018, 23:54:56
Quote from: macclack on Thu, 12 April 2018, 23:39:33
Quote from: Kapitalist on Thu, 12 April 2018, 23:19:33
I don't have much to add to the discussion aside from my own opinion. I was using a Topre RealForce for years and never thought I would buy or use another keyboard. Started getting into looking at different keycaps and artisans and bought some Miami double shots on mass drop on a whim. I thought it would be a waste but decided to build an MX board for the heck of it and got a cheap MX Red board off Amazon. Got some cheap o-rings and now... I love this damn thing. Reds are great for typing, I never game and just use mine for work and I love the feel, especially with the dampening rings on them. Try em out!

That aside I'm curious to trying some other light linear switches to compare. Hate clicks or tactile switches personally, clicky is too damn loud and tactile just feels gritty and awful to me. What's better than Cherry Reds aside from Topre?

Go for silent reds or maybe zilents. You'll get more key travel than a MX red with an o-ring mod.

Just ordered a 40% with silent red Gaterons. Always assumed Gaterons were inferior to Cherry because they were cheaper but I've heard good things to contrary so looking forward to trying these out!

At this point I think the general consensus re. MX switches is that:
- Linear: Gateron > Cherry.
- Clicky: Kailh Box > Cherry.
- Tactile: Zealio > Cherry, depending on where you stand re. graininess and wobbleness.
- Silent linears : Cherry > Gateron
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: onlyabyte on Sun, 29 April 2018, 01:01:01: Not red switch but I love linears. I have Kailh Yellows which are about the same weight as the reds and I love it. All I do is type and it's perfect. The whole thing about MX Reds or any linear being for gaming is just marketing. The best switch for you is the one you are most happy with. Keyboards are one of those things that are a matter of preference - there is no right or wrong answer. :thumb:
Title: Re: Do you like Red switch for just "typing"? Why?
Post by: Duckyreddy on Sun, 29 April 2018, 01:16:53: Quote from: onlyabyte on Sun, 29 April 2018, 01:01:01
The best switch for you is the one you are most happy with. Keyboards are one of those things that are a matter of preference - there is no right or wrong answer. :thumb:

Truth right here