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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: penpoints on Wed, 08 June 2011, 18:32:24
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I ordered TWO Filco Majestouch-2 tenkeyless Ninja keyboards, with mx browns, from Amazon. They arrived yesterday, and at first I was thrilled to get these beautiful keyboards.
Then, after some testing, I noticed... PING!, BOING!, ZING! - actually just the same ringing tone, with varying degrees of loudness, when releasing the Back Space, Enter, and other keys in that general area. That's where it's the worst, but the whole board has this "feature" - and both keyboards do it, in exactly the same way.
How much $$$ have I spent on BOOKS from Amazon over the years? I don't want to think about that, but this will be my FIRST return to Amazon, ever - so they'd better take them back.
Anyway, maybe I just got two lemons, by coincidence. But I don't think so. I'll bet they're all like this, at least the browns. Actually it's not that loud, just mostly annoying. I once had a 1st-generation Matias Tactile Pro (sold) that was like a miniature percussion band: clicking, clacking, pinging and squeaking - what a racket!
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stabilizers tend to make noise. Mine don't make that kind of noise.
Sorry to hear the bad news, good luck on your return.
inb4 viper2 bashes Filco quality
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filco Ninja keyboards????
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stabilizers tend to make noise. Mine don't make that kind of noise.
Sorry to hear the bad news, good luck on your return.
inb4 viper2 bashes Filco quality
It's coming from the switches themselves. To prove this, I removed the Back Space keycap, held the switch down and released it quickly: there's a loud PING. Nearby switches have it almost as bad, and the whole keyboard has this problem to a lesser degree. It's exactly the same with both keyboards (Filco Majestouch-2 Tenkeyless Ninja, brown switches, purchased from Amazon.com).
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I don't have a Ninja, but if they're anything like the Majestouches, the noise is from a combination of the switches and the steel plate mounting. There have been reports of this being a problem for people before in the past.
A lot of mechanical keyboards make noise like this. Model M's have a really loud ping.
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Kinda regretting getting rid of all three of my first gens.
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BTW I just stick my keyboards on a SuperXXL Mousemat. You'd be surprised the difference.
Have you considered listening to a lot of Death Metal?
I just subjected my Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless (1st generation), mx brown switches, to the same test. I removed the Back Space keycap, held the switch down and released it quickly, several times: instead of a loud PING there's just a dull click. Of course that's how it should sound.
Putting the new keyboards on a sound-deadening pad made no appreciable difference. There's still a loud ping.
These two keyboards (Filco Majestouch-2 Tenkeyless Ninja, mx browns) will be returned tomorrow. They are defective. This was just a heads-up for you guys. Maybe I got the only two lemons in the bunch. Who knows?
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My first experience with a Filco was a MJ2 tenkeyless with browns myself (from the first Amazon batch) and I returned it for the exact same reason. It wasn't something I'd consider minor, the backspace and arrow keys were really loud. I had a Daskeyboard S to compare it to at the time it arrived and the Daskeyboard made no such noise whatsoever on any of the keys. I wouldn't blame you for sending them back for that if it was anywhere as loud as mine.
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I have a filco brown coming from amazon and these threads scare me.
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The keyboard is not defective, the noise comes from the springs inside the cherry switches. It comes with the territory of mechanical switches. Get over it and don't return perfectly fine keyboards.
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I have:
Filco gen 1 brown - no ping
Filco gen 1 blue - no ping
Filco gen 2 red - ping
Filco gen 2 TKL brown - no ping (so far)
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My 87 Filco Ninja with browns from Amazon doesn't make any pinging sounds at all. I've heard Filco boards make that sound so I know what it is, and mine doesn't do it. And I've tested for it.
The Filco Ninja is a perfectly fine keyboard. Sometimes things like this happens.
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I got my Filco Ninja brown today and I don't notice any difference in sounds with the keys mentioned by other people. However, this is my first mechanical keyboard and I'm not too sure what the ping's or ding's or pong's should sound like entirely. I love this keyboard and don't plan on returning it any time soon.
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These PING! threads come up every 6 months or so.
You'll notice PING! has been in the Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide Glossary (sticky above) since the beginning.
I'd say it's as significant a problem as shiny spacebars.
If there's ambient sound - talking, music or whatever - then the pinging isn't such a big deal. But in a quiet room it's deadly. Ping, ping, ping, ping... This isn't normal at all.
There's a HUGE difference between the quiet clicking of my first-generation Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless keyboards (brown switches) and the noise from the two second-generation keyboards that arrived yesterday. The new ones are certainly defective - but judging from some of the other comments, it seems like there are some good ones out there, in the exact same model. Good luck finding them.
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It's definitely a significant issue. I had a tenkeyless with browns before and sold it because I couldn't stand that annoying ping sound.
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I have a majestouch 1 with blues.
No pinging unless you count the asians playing ping pong on it.
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If someone is too sensitive to keyboard sounds, then a headphone with music is the best solution.
I have a Filco Majestic 1 brown and sometimes the sound is very metallic ping too, compared with my old Compaq MX11800 brown. I also have a shiny Space keycap after 6 months of heavy use.
All that is fine to me since the key switches and typing feel are the same. I consider keycaps and typing sounds less important.
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I'm curious how many people have experienced this "ping" so I created a poll here:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18739-Have-you-experienced-the-Filco-quot-ping-quot-noise (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18739-Have-you-experienced-the-Filco-quot-ping-quot-noise)
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What about pings on other boards? It's not particular to Filco. It's a characteristic of the cherry MX switch. However different boards may amplify the sound in different ways. I would not call it a defect however, you may get the sound even though the keyboard manufacturer did nothing wrong.
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I can hear the springs doing the ping sound on my Leopold with browns but I doesn't resonate across the board like I've heard a Filco do.
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I betcha a little foam type padding under the PCB would also go a long way in reducing this. The case acts like a guitar soundbox.
This. A little bit of foam or "rubber" can fix the problem. I currently use some rubber-foam called "Rutsch Stop". CeeSa has also previously used this to reduce noise and soften switch landing. I wrote a rough guide (for another keyboard) on how to best use the stuff, it should work for the Filco as well:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?13165-Fix-G80-3000-(and-probably-G81-1800)-flexing
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I betcha a little foam type padding under the PCB would also go a long way in reducing this. The case acts like a guitar soundbox.
The case is involved but the metal plate itself is really the source, it rings like a tuning fork.
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I have a majestouch 1 with blues.
No pinging unless you count the asians playing ping pong on it.
Hey one joke over the line sweet jesus, one joke over the line.
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noodle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noodle) is originated from China, like many of the keyboards and keycaps we buy. 8 bits == 1 byte represents 256 variations. Take a byte of noodle. :-)
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I have a tenkeyless Filco with reds that I bought through the keyboard co and I have no pinging at all. I tried putting my ear right down and releasing the keys and spacebar quickly and absolutely no pinging. I also have the full-sized version at work and that one I purchased off Amazon but also via the keyboard co. I haven't noticed any pinging but I'll really check it out today when I get to work. I do know that the keys seemed to have a different sound on some of the keys after I switched the keycaps to PBT ones.
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I'm curious how many people have experienced this "ping" so I created a poll here:
Do we have a recording of a reference sample? Sometimes I'd say I hear a "clink" from some of the stabilized keys on my MJ-1 w/ browns but certainly not any undampened ringing like "piiiiing" implies.
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That's a good point. Folks with ping-y boards: let's get some audio samples uploaded!
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That's a good point. Folks with ping-y boards: let's get some audio samples uploaded!
I would if I hadn't sent mine back almost immediately. I get the impression mine was worse than most peoples' though. It was loud enough that it was clear as day even when listening to music through my studio monitors.
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That's how mine was too. Crazy loud, despite how hard or soft I typed.
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I'll take some recordings today and post them
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This ping is not found on any PCB mounted keyboards as far as I can tell.
And bottoming out on PCB mounted keyboards is quite pleasant to do as well.
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None of my 3 Filcos ping. Must have lucked out. However, there's a few keys on my Das Keyboard that pink like crazy :(
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Cherry switches are not made from rubber, but from metal. Some keys just consonate, I think.
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It's not an issue specific to plate mounting. Neither of my current Filcos have this noise. Seems to be a sporadic issue but when it does occur its definitely noticeable and can be quite annoying. For me its a dealbreaker.
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Or THIS!
Wow thats ugly.
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If this kind of stuff bugs spend the $400 and get a Topre Realforce Silent from Japan. When you live with rice paper walls you need silent.
I hae urge to wet my finger and poke holes through rice paper windows, from watching all the ninja movies.
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Here you go. Probably need to crank the sound a bit.
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I could hear the ping on your filco, but it's much much lower level than either the downstroke or the upstroke sound. It's really a non-issue. If it bothers you, open up the case and stick some foam, rubber, sorbothane, duct tape, foam, whatever, inside the case, around the plate, etc.
Post results, it would be useful. Much more useful than returning perfectly good keyboards and making the case that Americans are better off with membrane keyboards.
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I could hear the ping on your filco, but it's much much lower level than either the downstroke or the upstroke sound. It's really a non-issue. If it bothers you, open up the case and stick some foam, rubber, sorbothane, duct tape, foam, whatever, inside the case, around the plate, etc.
Post results, it would be useful. Much more useful than returning perfectly good keyboards and making the case that Americans are better off with membrane keyboards.
1) I didn't say I was returning it.
2) Obviously it's not a non-issue if it bothers some people and it doesn't do it on other keyboards.
3) Stop worrying about an agenda! It is what it is.
4) I'm planning on various experiments to dampen the sound and will report results when available.
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Now I'm just super paranoid about my keyboard.
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It's an agenda. A conspiracy :-) Look what happened to manual transmissions. The automative equivalent of mech keyboards. The rest of the world gets all the nice cars (even family cars and SUVs) with a stick. In the US, it has to be the base model with the wimpy engine (if you're lucky enough to have stick available as an option). In Europe, most grandmothers drive a stick. Over here, most people don't even know how. So sad.
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The case is involved but the metal plate itself is really the source, it rings like a tuning fork.
Yes, like a TUNING FORK. (I wish I had thought of that.) It's loud, there's just one tone, and it sets up a kind of resonance effect.
Generally I don't mind noisy keyboards at all. In fact, I LIKE THEM. Noise is good. But this pinging is just too weird.
Currently I have 7 Filco keyboards (1st generation, all tenkeyless), with blue, brown, and black switches, and none of them ping. I think it's obvious that at least some of the 2nd-generation Filcos are defective.
Anyway, I've already mailed them back. If Amazon won't accept the return, then maybe I'll try to resell them here, since so many of you are saying that there's "no problem." I would include free ear plugs, duct tape, foam rubber, etc., and probably discount the keyboards to $129 each. What a deal!
:music:
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Outrageous! These ninjas would never pass the test as real ninjas if they were made in Okinawa
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In the US, it has to be the base model with the wimpy engine (if you're lucky enough to have stick available as an option).
Pfft, my M3 disagrees :p
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Well, tuning forks are useful. Jot down whether you ping is a B# or whatever, and tune your guitar with it. Now that's what I would call a proper geek.
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Pfft, my M3 disagrees :p
Try gettiing a stickshift rental. Or a large family car or SUV. Even some American "sporty" cars, all looks, and they still come with auto and torque converter slush in between your engine and your wheels.
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There's no agenda. It's annoyed some people so we're discussing it.
Censorship and agendas are for the deskthoritys and Ocns of the world.
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This ping is not found on any PCB mounted keyboards as far as I can tell.
I have no Filco, but I have keyboards with
- PCB-mounted MX Blues, Browns, Clears, Blacks
- Plate-mounted MX Blacks
Of these,
- my PCB-mounted Blacks ping
- one of my plate-mounted Blacks ping but the other doesn't!
The ping emitted from the pinging keyboards sounds like the ping from redpill's Filco with Browns.
None of my other Cherry MX keyboards emit any pinging noise. I can hear some slight noise from the spring when if I put my ear next to a switch, but unlike the pinging keyboards I can not hear any spring noise during normal typing.
My theory is that some batches of switches may have springs made of a different metal alloy than others.
Anyone tried the Dental Floss mod on Cherry MX's yet?
Not possible with Cherry MX. The slider occupies this space. I am afraid that if you would cut off this part then the switch will be less stable. This part of the slider is so long that it will even pass through the PCB when the key is pressed to the bottom.
Outrageous! These ninjas would never pass the test as real ninjas if they were made in Okinawa
Ninjas are from mainland Japan. You may be thinking of Karate, which is from Okinawa.
Karate practitioners yell when they strike, and this is called "ki-ai". Ninjas are of course above such nonsense. ;-)
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Pfft, my M3 disagrees :p
Yeah but europe got all the cool variants like the CSL, Evo, and GTR. Not to mention a lot of the good japanese cars too :(
Ninjas are from mainland Japan. You may be thinking of Karate, which is from Okinawa.
Karate practitioners yell when they strike, and this is called "ki-ai". Ninjas are of course above such nonsense. ;-)
I never learned about ninjas but I just assumed they were lowly peasants and western movies made them sound all cool. Just like how western movies make it seem like samurais always used swords as there main weapon
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European cars more and more get dual clutch transmission to get rid of torque converter automatic.
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I have a tenkeyless Filco with reds that I bought through the keyboard co and I have no pinging at all. I tried putting my ear right down and releasing the keys and spacebar quickly and absolutely no pinging. I also have the full-sized version at work and that one I purchased off Amazon but also via the keyboard co. I haven't noticed any pinging but I'll really check it out today when I get to work. I do know that the keys seemed to have a different sound on some of the keys after I switched the keycaps to PBT ones.
Adding more: I looked and listened more carefully to my full size Filco Majestouch wuith the reds and yes this one does ping. I never really noticed it until reading this post. The tenkeyless version is definitely ping free.
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Here you go. Probably need to crank the sound a bit.
Thanks for the audio clip. That's the same sound that my Filco keyboards made, only mine were much louder. For example, the backspace key snapping back up caused a gigantic, sustained ping - like a tuning fork. The other keys had the same problem, but they weren't as bad. However, the combined effect was awful.
I was tempted to keep these keyboards anyway, because other than the pinging they seemed to be really excellent. Oh well, I won't buy another 2nd-generation Filco. Just hope someone will be selling Ninja keycaps at some point.
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Thanks for the audio clip. That's the same sound that my Filco keyboards made, only mine were much louder. For example, the backspace key snapping back up caused a gigantic, sustained ping - like a tuning fork. The other keys had the same problem, but they weren't as bad. However, the combined effect was awful.
I was tempted to keep these keyboards anyway, because other than the pinging they seemed to be really excellent. Oh well, I won't buy another 2nd-generation Filco. Just hope someone will be selling Ninja keycaps at some point.
I know the sound you're talking about. My friend's Filco does that. What these guys are calling pinging is nothing compared to what I heard on his board.
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Thanks for the audio clip. That's the same sound that my Filco keyboards made, only mine were much louder. For example, the backspace key snapping back up caused a gigantic, sustained ping - like a tuning fork. The other keys had the same problem, but they weren't as bad. However, the combined effect was awful.
I was tempted to keep these keyboards anyway, because other than the pinging they seemed to be really excellent. Oh well, I won't buy another 2nd-generation Filco. Just hope someone will be selling Ninja keycaps at some point.
That was the problem with mine, and it was the same key (Backspace) that caused the loudest noise. One of the arrow keys was bad as well.
Now I use an HHKBP2 because I'm SCURRED FOR LIFE.
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Just started playing around with my ninja. It seems almost all the keys give off a very low hollow pitch that can be heard if you put your ear up to it. Only happens when I bottom out so i'm guessing its the metal plate.
Alot of complaining but overall i'm happy with mine. Definitely keeping mine. The Filco logo looks great in gunmetal/black
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Try gettiing a stickshift rental. Or a large family car or SUV. Even some American "sporty" cars, all looks, and they still come with auto and torque converter slush in between your engine and your wheels.
With two kids, if I feel I need a larger vehicle the Cayenne is on my list because I can get it with stick. Unfortunately, you can only get the base model or the GTS with stick. The S and the Turbo are auto-only. Even Porsche is screwing it up :( I'd think an S with stick would be great. For now I'm sticking with my E39.
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BTW I just stick my keyboards on a SuperXXL Mousemat. You'd be surprised the difference.
Have you considered listening to a lot of Death Metal?
I laughed so hard reading this post.
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With two kids, if I feel I need a larger vehicle the Cayenne is on my list because I can get it with stick. Unfortunately, you can only get the base model or the GTS with stick. The S and the Turbo are auto-only. Even Porsche is screwing it up :( I'd think an S with stick would be great. For now I'm sticking with my E39.
Every time I see a Porsche with an auto trans it makes me want to cry!
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BTW did you mention that to the buyer? I don't remember seeing a post like that in the classifieds.
Why do you care whether or not the seller revealed this? That doesn't make sense, since you've been saying all along that the metallic ringing problem is trivial, nonexistent, or easily fixable.
I was very reluctant to return these keyboards to Amazon.com, and wouldn't have done this unless there was a genuine problem.
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Every time I see a Porsche with an auto trans it makes me want to cry!
I even want to cry when I see a Miata with auto. By the way, have you installed a short-throw shifter on your M3 ? BMW are great cars but their sticks are way too long throw, it kinda ruins the experience. It's funny how some much cheeper cars (Miata or S2000) have amazing short and crisp stick action.
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I even want to cry when I see a Miata with auto. By the way, have you installed a short-throw shifter on your M3 ? BMW are great cars but their sticks are way too long throw, it kinda ruins the experience. It's funny how some much cheeper cars (Miata or S2000) have amazing short and crisp stick action.
Sorry to jump in and derail here, but I was wondering if you had a short-throw you'd suggest. I have a fairly old ('96) 328i, but I love the thing and it's in fairly good condition, and I'd like to try out a short throw on it.
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Daerid: dunno, never owned a BMW, but I'm sure there's tons of forums talking about it.
Ripster's right, we strayed, so let's stay on topic ripster-style by posting another random youtube video ...man she sings so good live (sound sample so it happened)
[video=youtube;gG9adc378TI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG9adc378TI[/video]
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We really should stick to the topic at hand.
Sound Samples Or It Didn't Happen!
Is it really productive to accuse people of lying? Or to assume that everyone else is an imbecile?
All of my other Filcos have a pleasant click. The Filcos I returned had a loud, metallic ringing. They were defective. Get over it.
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What is the defect, exactly? What did the manufacturer do wrong, if a spring happens to oscillate like any self-respecting spring does? Good guitar amp reverbs use springs. They have sound qualities!
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Is it really productive to accuse people of lying? Or to assume that everyone else is an imbecile?
All of my other Filcos have a pleasant click. The Filcos I returned had a loud, metallic ringing. They were defective. Get over it.
I think it's more along the lines of finding out if you can hear something we can't. The only samples I've heard where ringing was claimed I can't hear a damned thing beyond what my Filco produces for noise and none of it sounds like ringing.
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Knock the amp and you'll probably hear a ping. I've heard it on mine. Some guitar tremolo springs do too (now that might indeed be a problem).
Anyway, lot's of things with springs ping, even furniture.
Oh no, I just released a spring-loaded pen's button and it pinged. I must return it at once, it's clearly defective. Even better, we need a class action lawsuit against spring manufacturers. By law, all springs should come rubber coated, or come with a silicone core, or change alloy every 2mm of wire (Soluter's solution to avoid the resonance).
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There is a noticeable difference between the issue we're talking about and the sound of an ordinary Filco.
There's no question in my mind that it's a manufacturer defect. Why it only affects certain boards is beyond me.
Having not experienced the issue, yet being certain it's a non-issue is not only stupid but it's trolling as well.
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What is the defect, exactly? What did the manufacturer do wrong, if a spring happens to oscillate like any self-respecting spring does? Good guitar amp reverbs use springs. They have sound qualities!
You don't know what is meant by a "defective product"?
I'm sure there was some kind of mistake in the production process. The 1st-generation Filco keyboards I have don't have this ringing problem at all.
From the comments it's clear that many of the 2nd-generation Filcos are perfectly fine, or that the problem is minor. Mine were LOUD and really not usable in a quiet office. YMMV
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I'm sorry but this is where you're logic is a little off. The keyboard I've used that pinged really bad was a first gen Filco 104 with browns. They all do it.
You don't know what is meant by a "defective product"?
I'm sure there was some kind of mistake in the production process. The 1st-generation Filco keyboards I have don't have this ringing problem at all.
From the comments it's clear that many of the 2nd-generation Filcos are perfectly fine, or that the problem is minor. Mine were LOUD and really not usable in a quiet office. YMMV
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Mine were LOUD and really not usable in a quiet office. YMMV
Same here. As I've stated, neither of my other Filco's are like that. One is a Gen1 and the other is a Gen2.
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It's not a defect. If you can call it a defect, it's a Cherry defect. It's physics. Springs sometimes oscillate. You can get many cherry keyboards to ping if you try, not just Filco's. There's not much the manufacturer can do about it. Are they supposed to check every switch for sound properties ?
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I even want to cry when I see a Miata with auto. By the way, have you installed a short-throw shifter on your M3 ? BMW are great cars but their sticks are way too long throw, it kinda ruins the experience. It's funny how some much cheeper cars (Miata or S2000) have amazing short and crisp stick action.
S2000 and miatas are much cheaper but they are actually real sports cars compared to the newer M3s. I really want a first gen M3 tho.
After my first day with browns, i'm not sure if I like them for gaming. I actually prefer my Model Ms over it right now. For some reason the tactile touch feels like a sticky red switch.
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Just to report...no ping at all in a Deck Legend Cherry blacks. This tank is solid and for $170 it better be!
I do believe some of these guys have a problem. My Model M's certainly have a few keys that ping a little more than others.
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It's times like these when I wish itlnstln still posted here. He experienced this issue too and hated it.
He blamed it on the plate though, which is obviously not the issue. More research obviously still needs to be done to determine root cause.
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No one said it affected "all Filcos". It obviously is a sporadic issue which only affects certain boards.
They majority of them seem to have browns.
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My Japanese ninja should be here in a couple weeks for some ping testing
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Oh ok...I only personally experienced it on a Gen1 with browns.
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Just to report...no ping at all in a Deck Legend Cherry blacks. This tank is solid and for $170 it better be!
I do believe some of these guys have a problem. My Model M's certainly have a few keys that ping a little more than others.
Best way to try the ping, is hold a key and slide your finger off it, so it bounces back violently. You don't even have to hold the key down all the way. But I think black springs are stiffer and might not ping for that reason. I don't own MX blacks, but can get keyboards with browns and reds to ping. In my view, the better mounting the switch has, the more likely it is to ping. Like a guitar bridge, good mounting transfers the vibrations to the body. It will help if folks hold different loose cherry switches in a vise or pliers, and try to release the stems by sliding their finger off repeatedly. I would try it but I don't have any loose switches, and am not willing to desolder any off my boards. Can someone with extra MX switches try this please ?
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Hahaha I get the joke now. Nobody on here cares about those forums.
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You're the one that just said that this issue pops up every 6 months or so. Sounds like an old and on going thing to me.
I remember reading about it and experiencing it over a year ago. After using the keyboard my friend bought, the sound gave me pause about buying a mechanical keyboard. I waited a month after using that board before I bought my Filco 104 with blacks. I read all the forums I could to see if this was a wide spread problem. I read about people having it but it seemed isolated. So when I got my board in I tested to see if it made the noise like my friend's board it and it didn't.
So if this problem affects all Filcos why hasn't this been a big issue before?
Or on Japanese Keyboard Forums?
Or on Korean Keyboard Forums?
Or on Chinese Keyboard Forums?
Or on Runeazn's Keyboard Forum?
I don't count OCN. They are probably all deaf from those Apple Earbuds.
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I even want to cry when I see a Miata with auto. By the way, have you installed a short-throw shifter on your M3 ? BMW are great cars but their sticks are way too long throw, it kinda ruins the experience. It's funny how some much cheeper cars (Miata or S2000) have amazing short and crisp stick action.
UUC SSK. Makes it pretty notchy, but that's OK by me. Bilstein PSS9 progressive coilovers, exhaust, intake, etc. Fun car. 67k miles and nearly 10 years old, I still like it better than the new ones!
(http://kissarmy.50megs.com/M3/roadclosed2.jpg)
Sorry to jump in and derail here, but I was wondering if you had a short-throw you'd suggest. I have a fairly old ('96) 328i, but I love the thing and it's in fairly good condition, and I'd like to try out a short throw on it.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/BMW-E36/c-62-bmw-uuc-short-shift-kits.aspx
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Well?.....
(Attachment) 19022[/ATTACH]
Because people with the most refined taste have the highest standards?
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@canon.tk - Yes it was mentioned here before a while ago but most of us thought it was just a "plate-mounted" vs. "pcb-mounted" thing.
That does not seem to be the case now.
Also, in my interview with the designer he mentioned that the Filco has A defect (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17967-Interview-with-Carl-Matsu-designer-of-Filco-Majestouch-and-Leopold&highlight=matsu).
Just wouldn't say WHAT it was :\
Ripster thought he was lying to sell more Leopolds. What a conspiracy theorist!
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My Leopold with browns makes the same noise!
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I'm sorry but this is where you're logic is a little off. The keyboard I've used that pinged really bad was a first gen Filco 104 with browns. They all do it.
Okay, point taken. Then some of the 1st-gen Filcos have the problem too. But not very many, I'll bet, or we would've heard more about it.
So why do some Filco keyboards ping, to varying degrees, while others don't? I'm glad my 1st-gen Filcos don't have this "feature". Actually, I don't mind a slight ping - I just hate the loud tuning-fork effect.
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My tenkeyless Ninja doesn't do it and my Filco 104 with reds (gen 2) doesn't do it. So I'm not sure what the deal is with your boards.
I don't think it's my hearing, because I can hear just fine. Any high pitch sound drives me nuts and if my boards were doing it beyond the basic sound of the spring, I probably hear it.
Okay, point taken. Then some of the 1st-gen Filcos have the problem too. But not very many, I'll bet, or we would've heard more about it.
So why do some Filco keyboards ping, to varying degrees, while others don't? I'm glad my 1st-gen Filcos don't have this "feature". Actually, I don't mind a slight ping - I just hate the loud tuning-fork effect.
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I bet if you loosen up the mounting of the PCB it would reduce or eliminate noise. The more I think about it, it's probably the mounting of the various components from the switch all the way to the case that is too good for its own good. The spring acts like a guitar string, the switch mounting / solder points act as a guitar bridge, and the case acts as a guitar soundbox. Can someone try loosening up the PCB screws, add some rubber washers to dampen any vibrations, etc?
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And let me clarify what I mean by my boards not doing it. If I put my ear right next to the board and smack keys around I can hear the ping sound, all my boards do this. When I say that they don't do it is the sound from just normal typing. It doesn't resonate across the board.
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Problem is you void your warranty if you open it. If that is the issue, its still an assembly defect.
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My son and I came up with this one recently. Seems like a good time to use it.
(Attachment) 19023[/ATTACH]
If he's trolling, he's only trolling you. And succeeding :)
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If he's trolling, he's only trolling you. And succeeding :)
^
xD
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I wonder if Ripster's son will grow up to become a career senior member on an internet forum.
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I wonder if Ripster's son will grow up to become a career senior member on an internet forum.
There can be only one.
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It's not a defect. If you can call it a defect, it's a Cherry defect. It's physics. Springs sometimes oscillate. You can get many cherry keyboards to ping if you try, not just Filco's. There's not much the manufacturer can do about it. Are they supposed to check every switch for sound properties ?
It's definitely not caused by an oscillating spring. The sound is reverberating through the metal plate. This sound should be suppressed at the switch. A slight, muffled ping would be okay, but a keyboard shouldn't sound like a tuning fork. Maybe you don't consider this to be a serious defect, but I do.
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Nope, that hasn't been determined either.
What HAS been determined is that if Ripster hasn't personally experienced an issue, it cannot POSSIBLY be an issue.
Some "Number 1 keyboard expert!"
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It's definitely not caused by an oscillating spring. The sound is reverberating through the metal plate.
Nope quite. I can get my kinesis boards to ping, and they have no metal plates. The switch innards do the ping, the rest of the keyboard just happens to transmit/amplify the sound.
Maybe you don't consider this to be a serious defect, but I do.
If it's loud and sustains I can see it getting annoying. I would call it undesirable spring behavior, but probably not a defect, because Filco, Leopold, Kinesis, etc didn't do something wrong. I would hate to punish the manufacturer by returning a fine product, for something that is really happenstance and not their wrongdoing.
It might be a *feature* for a manufacturer to offer a higher priced keyboard that is fine tuned / dampened / individually tested to avoid such noises.
But lack of such does not constitute a defect in my view. It's just lack of a luxury feature.
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Someone sounds bitter!
Err what's the word you like? Surly?
I prefer bitter.
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Now if they could get each key to ring in a complementary tone, you could wind up playing a song like a special water glass playing talent
(http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/film_images/miss_congeniality_special_talent.jpg)
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Anyway, back to my statistical logic of this not being that big a deal and highly dependent on the listener.
Seems a lot of people disagree with you on that.
It's not easy being the #1 keyboard expert on the planet.
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Anyway, back to my statistical logic of this not being that big a deal and highly dependent on the listener.
Your logic is flawed. You can't claim it's highly dependent on the listener because you haven't heard it for yourself in person.
Secondly, it might not be a big deal in terms of number of keyboards affected, but for the individual people who are impacted, it's potentially a big deal.
There's no point in trying to white wash it just because you like your Filcos.
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@redpill, it's not about like, it's about money. Don't you know how Ripster makes a living???
We are creating a potential dent in his Filco commissions.
No WONDER he got so upset when I said Filco might be scaling back.
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I didn't realize ripster's financial future was also wrapped up in this. I feel kind of bad then, I'll try not to listen to the pinging.
And to think all of this is happening on FRIDAY!
(http://www.overclock.net/attachments/keyboards/214487d1307639617-another-reason-not-buy-razer-rebecca-black-che.png)
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Source 1 is the only serious one. The rest are lulz.
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Ripster, seriously, what do you do for a living?
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Well I updated my signature. I consider it a rare special edition. The MajesPing-2.
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Nope quite. I can get my kinesis boards to ping, and they have no metal plates. The switch innards do the ping, the rest of the keyboard just happens to transmit/amplify the sound.
I think the metal plate makes it sound worse than your reverberating plastic (whatever that is).
After spending $149.00 on a brand-new keyboard, one would expect it to "just work" - straight out of the box. Most manufacturers and dealers would agree with this.
I think if an expert opened up these loudly pinging keyboards, they could see exactly what was causing this. But it's kind of pointless to speculate.
If it's loud and sustains I can see it getting annoying. I would call it undesirable spring behavior, but probably not a defect, because Filco, Leopold, Kinesis, etc didn't do something wrong. I would hate to punish the manufacturer by returning a fine product, for something that is really happenstance and not their wrongdoing. [...]
Okay, then we agree! I'm not going to sue them, I'd just like a refund. :music:
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Every time I see a Porsche with an auto trans it makes me want to cry!
Well, apparently starting with the 996TT the tiptronic was actually really good. That doesn't mean I want one though :)
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We really should stick to the topic at hand.
Wait, what? Is that the pot calling the kettle black? :)
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Do one of the wikis have some good up close shots of what a Gen1 looks like outside of its case? I'm wondering if there are some noticeable differences in the way the switches are mounted.
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I have a gen 1 in front of me that is de-cased... typing on it even. What could you possible want to see a picture of? 1: the PCB is single sided unlike the gen2. 2: the plate is only attached directly to the keys, however the top and bottom lip rest on tabs inside the case bottom and it appears the PCB does not touch anything within the case. 3: the top frame has 3 screws holding the 2 case halves together via holes between the Fn and number rows effectively mating the plate to the case. the frame also has a lip around every opening that presses against the plate when mated to the case bottom.
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I'm glad we all agree it's not a Filco defect. That would be a Sad Day In Filco Ninja Land. I call it an Anomaly Common To Spring Based Switches Especially When Mounted On Metal Plates But Also On PCBs.
But I do think it's a Filco defect.
I was agreeing with this part: "If it's loud and sustains I can see it getting annoying. I would call it undesirable spring behavior..." - except I think it's the mounting, not the spring, that's causing the problem.
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That's nice.
You keep believing that.
Why are you actively trying to discredit people? Pure Filco fanboyism?
The ping is a B flat by the way.
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I'll sell you mine, but I'm charging a premium since apparently these are exceedingly rare.
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BTW Redpill posted the solution here.
(http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18277-Filco-majestouch2-brown-metallic-ringing&p=357423&viewfull=1#post357423)
Paper towels.
It was a test, not a solution. It addressed the symptom, not the cause. I'm not above stuffing my keycaps with paper towel bits if I have to, but I'm going to do that I might as well wait for my engraved keycaps first.
Redpill, you really should stop trolling me. You are really bad at it.
(http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/11/18/129030497255931002.jpg)
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That reminds me.
Was anyone surprised last night that white men INDEED can jump?
I'm not sure if anyone was as surprised as the Heat.
(http://i.imgur.com/ThmLo.jpg)
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lol in that pic Chris Bosh looks like he just found out his puppy died.
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Ok guys, ninja with browns just arrived and I'm typing on it right now. I have no clue what you all are going on about this "pinging" noise. The only thing even slightly resembling a "ping" that I hear is a sort of squeaky or springy noise from certain keys. You can hear the noise I'm talking about if you listen to the backspace key at :40s in the video ripster posted. The only keys that do it for me are some of the bigger ones like + and Enter in the numpad. Even so, the noise I'm describing I consider completely normal. The spacebar on my majestouch-1 with blacks and leopold with browns made the same sort of squeaky/springy noise.
Overall this board has a softer and quieter feel to it than the leopold. I will record a video or at the very least a sound sample when I get a hold of the camera later tonight. I seriously think OP is just trolling though.
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I seriously think OP is just trolling though.
Just because your keyboard doesn't have the same issue doesn't mean others are trolling or lying.
That would be like me claiming you are an alternate forum account for Ripster.
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The only thing I put on Youtube is my Golden Tee Live Great Shots
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Just wanted to report that my BW does ping too if I listen closely. While I can hear it on the majority of the keys, it's most prominent on the up arrow key. of course considering BW has blue clicky switches, the pinging is hardly noticeable to my ears.
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Im getting annoyed only by looking at the video's, does anyone know if Ducky 9008 browns have this problem?
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Not sure.
Have you heard of the Quacked Ducky problem?
Ducky's quack, can't see how can you find a problem?!
(http://www.itsworsethanyouthink.co.uk/039/quack.jpg)
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This stuff is just turning into FUD. Soon the forms will be rampant with people crying don't buy Filco. Go Deck or Ducky. Razer sales will probably start to rise.
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This really makes my reluctant buying a Filco.
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Cherry Corps Ping too.
Neither of mine do. I'm pretty sure you still don't understand what we're talking about here.
Actually it's really not so much a "ping" as a "ringing".
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FUD alert!
It looks a bit like that we have a "ping mass hysteria" out there.
[video=youtube;nNvZduvwfMA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNvZduvwfMA[/video]
Maybe this is the solution ;)
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Hahaha wow. You ARE pissed!
Deep breaths Ripster, deep breaths.
Say it with me now: goosfraba
goosfraba
goosfraba
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so do the resonance only happen with filco plate mounted or any plate mounted? i could hear the resonance with the filco but not the others. Maybe it's that thing where as you get older you cannot hear certain frequencies, like the mosquito ringtone.
http://www.freemosquitoringtones.org/hearing_test/
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Did I mention it was a B♭? Wasn't expecting to hear a B♭ either, just some nice Cherry Brown clicks. Yet then I hear a B♭. Does my mind think I should be hearing a B♭ when I press a cherry brown key? Wonder why it doesn't think so on my KBC Poker then.
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Are we agreed that #156 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18731-A-sad-day-in-Filco-Ninja-Land&p=358565&viewfull=1#post358565) is what we're talking about?
Now that I've heard a sample I can hear that from my MJ-1 tenkeyless w/ Browns if I put my ear to it. From pretty much every key I'd say. But I had to hear the example first to really pick it out.
To me that suggests that the noise is there from the Cherry switches, probably on all of them, but it is picked up and/or accentuated differently by some kind of assembly difference on individual boards.
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I have two FKBN88M/*2, one FKBN88MC/GRB2, one FKBN87M/EB and one FKBN87MC/EB. I haven't noticed any ping so far. IMHO Filco do not disappoint.
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Are we agreed that #156 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18731-A-sad-day-in-Filco-Ninja-Land&p=358565&viewfull=1#post358565) is what we're talking about?
Now that I've heard a sample I can hear that from my MJ-1 tenkeyless w/ Browns if I put my ear to it. From pretty much every key I'd say. But I had to hear the example first to really pick it out.
To me that suggests that the noise is there from the Cherry switches, probably on all of them, but it is picked up and/or accentuated differently by some kind of assembly difference on individual boards.
In my case, it was similar yeah, just quite a bit louder on a couple of the keys (Backspace in particular). I'd be inclined to agree it is more likely a Cherry issue than a Filco issue. Majestouch mentioned in another thread that he'd heard more issues with this kind of switch noise with browns more than other Cherry switches for whatever reason. I can't imagine it is really a widespread problem, honestly.
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Sorry about your commissions.
At least you still have AAPL.
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Made a video of it, sound ain't great but what do you want from an iphone
[video=youtube;FODqOs5oPv0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FODqOs5oPv0[/video]
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That (#190) is definitely the noise I heard on the PCB mounted try board.
And I only heard it on mx browns.
I think it comes from the spring and the metal plate amplifies it.
It sounds similar to these [video=youtube;CJnAbPrmJNA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJnAbPrmJNA[/video]
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Damn dude, you should RMA that one.
Or type differently.
RMA, what fun is that? I'm going to figure out how to fix it.
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Whatever helps you sleep tonight.
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Yet so many folks have noticed it...
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I still think it's in your head.
Must be a mass delusion, then?
Example (http://forums.vr-zone.com/audiophiles-htpc-corner/835144-need-help-resonance-control.html)
Example (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?12126-Filco-noise)
Example (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?8997-Filco-metal-plate-ringing)
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Must be a mass delusion, then?
Example (http://forums.vr-zone.com/audiophiles-htpc-corner/835144-need-help-resonance-control.html)
Example (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?12126-Filco-noise)
Example (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?8997-Filco-metal-plate-ringing)
I like the suggestion from VR Zone. I bet at least he felt better afterward.
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Made a video of it, sound ain't great but what do you want from an iphone
Just the sound of world domination at your fingertips :)
Btw ... i prefer touch-typing.
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You didn't nail anything, you just consistently deny the issue no matter how many times it comes up. Not something to be proud of, even as a shameless fanboi.
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In order to be considered the #1 keyboard expert you have to tell people you are constantly. You also have to always be right.
Psychology.
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Can't see it. I'm on tapatalk.
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This better?
Damn, iMav sure allows big Sig Pics.
The average length of a page just doubled!
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Can't see it. I'm on tapatalk.
Lol...he tried to troll me and failed.
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So you changed your sig to troll everyone?
What an ego on this guy.
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Mine pings but **** it.
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its the nicest keyboard i ever typed on. My first mechanical. And i like typewriters. Kind of feels old school with that pinging. I gonna grow to Wuv it, methinks, HA!
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I don't like all the color in your sig.
Talk about nitpicking!
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Maybe someone should invent such a thing ?! Seems to be a most needed tool ;)
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSOTQCoPF2_9KpKWuCwD6c2Foqd-cJ9AQiehawiBJBIPx4FxCHQug)
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Did I mention it was a B♭? Wasn't expecting to hear a B♭ either, just some nice Cherry Brown clicks. Yet then I hear a B♭. Does my mind think I should be hearing a B♭ when I press a cherry brown key?
One of my Kinesises sound a B and another sounds a C note.
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OK I finally see what sound you guys are talking about now. To make it all you have to do is release fast. The "ringing" is created from the spring release obviously and the case resonating. If you slowly take pressure off the key instead of releasing all at once you won't hear it. If there is any background noise in the room you won't hear it. I agree, the ninja does "ring" noticeably more than the leopold compared side by side.
In practice though, we don't just slam keys down and release fast. No one actually types like that. You guys making sound samples should be typing out regular paragraphs or typing tests. You can't hear it during normal typing unless you really listen for it because the normal key noise masks it. It is a higher frequency sound (because it is perceived I should say pitch), so the older geek hackers may be more immune to it.
I see now you guys aren't just trolling, the sound really is there. However, I do think you're over exaggerating the problem. If you type softly, normally, -- anything except slamming and/or rapid release you will not hear it. Mechanical keyboards have springs in them, of course they are going to make noise if you slam on them. If you want to mash your keys freely and have them be silent go back to rubber domes.
As others have already said, it comes down to your sensitivity to it. Personally it does not bother me. I probably would never have even singled it out if it weren't for all these people posting making such a big deal about it. I expect a mechanical keyboard to make some noise. This keyboard is still extremely sexy and comfortable to type on. Those qualities are more important to me than a faint ringing noise I can only hear in a silent room when I type a specific way to intentionally reproduce. I highly doubt I will be returning it. But I respect that it will annoy some people more than others.
I will try to put up a video as soon as I get the chance, both to demonstrate the noise in relation to the leopold and show that it's not really a big deal.
Also I think the noise is more of a BING than a ping.
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Also I think the noise is more of a BING than a ping.
No. It's a ding. Without question.
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I heard it plenty during normal typing.
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I heard it plenty during normal typing.
You must type pretty rough then, eh? slamming down and/or rapid release?
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Not that I know of. I DO have long, powerful fingers though.
Just ask the ladies.
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Not that I know of. I DO have long, powerful fingers though.
Just ask the ladies.
Try intentionally typing softer and not bottoming out (like if you were in a library). When I release slowly and keep some pressure on I can't hear it at all, especially in the home row. Some people have a tendency to rapidly release spacebar/enter too instead of keeping a light pressure on and slowly bringing them back up.
I also don't notice it with any sort of background noise in the room.
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Here is my kinesis springs singing. I discovered 2 pinging keys, one is a C (spacebar on the thumb cluster) the other a C# (slash key on the keywell area). If I find enough notes, I can play some tunes.
The 2nd clip is the same keyboard, some time later. I lined up the inside of the case with sorbothane, and put some dampening material around the bolts that hold the thumb clusters. Maybe hard-drive silent mounts would work too. The ping is significantly reduced, and the keyboard is overall quieter (due to the sorbothane). I didn't mind the sound, but thought to offer this experiment for folks to try.
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16 pages? wow....
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It's the google sound thingie inspiring us.
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16 pages? wow....
Well, bear in mind at least a quarter of those are Ripster's.
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Hey, how do I make my mp3 attachment use the embedded player ?
edit; nevermind, I found it, I needed to *remove* the [ATTACH] tags. Weird.
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In practice though, we don't just slam keys down and release fast. No one actually types like that. You guys making sound samples should be typing out regular paragraphs or typing tests.
Please, just stop. If it was only when I was smacking keys for demonstration purposes it wouldn't be noticeable and I wouldn't bother making a video of it. The reason for taking specific keys during a demonstration video is because I was using a cell phone for a mic and I was attempting to demonstrate the noise. Believe me, the noise is there constantly when typing normal paragraphs. It's the worst when I hit enter, which is obviously quite often. So you finish a paragraph, hit enter, and rrrrinngggg for a good full second after you stopped typing. I'm not slitting my wrists over it, but I have a Poker on the same desk with the same switches that doesn't do it which cost $50 less, so I'm not really buying the "just deal with it" line. It needs fixing, and I'm going to attempt to fix it. It may not be operable by the time I'm done, but the ping will die with it!
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It needs fixing, and I'm going to attempt to fix it. It may not be operable by the time I'm done, but the ping will die with it!
god's speed
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Try my (reversible) mod, add some rubber material around the mount points of the PCB and/or plate, such as rubber washers on the internal screws (both above and below the PCB), that sort of thing. Line the case inside surfaces with sorbothane wherever possible.
Listen to before / after samples in post #227 above. Different keyboard but same ideas apply to all of them. The idea is to make the various mount points and connections LESS rigid, not more rigid as some others suggested. Rigid things make louder sounds, think bells, guitars, etc. Mount points need to be loosened up so there's no sound transfer, which is how silent hard-drive mounts work.
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Well I'm admittedly not an expert on how these things are assembled, but after taking apart the case, I don't see any screws or other attachments between the metal plate and the PCB that can be loosened. And it still makes the same reverberating ring with the case off. Padding under the PCB and then reassembling didn't have an effect because it's the metal plate that is sounding. So whatever the solution is has to be focused on the metal plate or the way that the keycaps impact the switches (which would address the symptom moreso than the problem, but if it works with minimal impact on feel then who cares).
I'll try different keycaps, landing pads, and jamming various dampening materials between the pcb and the metal plate first. After that, then we start getting into the more "point of no return" options like expanding insulation foam.
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The idea is to make the various mount points and connections LESS rigid, which is how silent hard-drive mounts work.
This way helps to avoid the sound transfer to the case. You can't silence an HDD so it's the only way possible.
Instead when we speak about keys we can resolder it, we can open it, we can kill the sound where originates which is surely better than avoiding to transmit it.
Killing the sound's origin is more a fix, killing the sound transmission is more a patch.
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Hmm....
I'll sleep on it
I'm not putting it in the oven so don't get any ideas!!
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This way helps to avoid the sound transfer to the case. You can't silence an HDD so it's the only way possible.
Instead when we speak about keys we can resolder it, we can open it, we can kill the sound where originates which is surely better than avoiding to transmit it.
I agree it would be better, but the sound originates at the spring. Soldering is NOT gonna do anything, and even if it did, it's a patch too because the sound we all agree originates INSIDE the switch.
Killing the sound's origin is more a fix, killing the sound transmission is more a patch.
Yes it is a patch, unless you want to open up around 100 switches and apply some kind of grease or something to the spring. It would be very time consuming and will probably destroy the keyboard.
In any case, I noticed that keyboards ping even if you tap them / knock them. Also a pinging key sometimes pings if you release an adjacent key. All this (and ripster's plate photo) tell me that part of the problem is that if one spring makes a noise, all of them will oscillate and amplify the sound.
Perhaps expanding foam is the best solution for keyboards that have a plate. That or just lining the edges of the plate/pcb with sorbothane or something, as much as you can squeeze it in between all around.
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Ok, I resoldered the affected switch and recorded the sound before and after.
As you can hear, after resoldering it, the switch is still slightly more pingy than a normal one, but is waaaay less pingy than before
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Damn :-)
That's a great improvement. is it a plate mounted switch, or there's no plate?
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Yes it is a patch, unless you want to open up around 100 switches and apply some kind of grease or something to the spring. It would be very time consuming and will probably destroy the keyboard.
I already opened 100 switches when I went from browns to ergo clears, it's time consuming but easy, If the filcos are using just two contact per switch the task becomes incredibly easy.
BTW I'm speaking about a keyboard that has FEW switches pinging, if ALL the switches are pinging returning the keyboard is the best option.
Perhaps expanding foam is the best solution for keyboards that have a plate.
Poliurethane foam was an option I considered w/o thinking to the ping problem (I was unaware of it at the time), just to improve the overall keyboard sound so I don't exclude it as additional option.
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Damn :-)
That's a great improvement. is it a plate mounted switch, or there's no plate?
Plate mount + LED
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Ok. I guess resoldering has the effect of not necessarily strengthening the bond, but generally altering the forces between switch, plate, PCB in different ways (decreasing / decreasing them in the various directions). Minute position changes while resoldering may be warranted to dampen stubborn switches.
Good job Solutor!
i still think that resoldering will have little effect on PCB mounted switches without a plate, but I could be wrong.
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Ok. I guess resoldering has the effect of not necessarily strengthening the bond, but generally altering the forces between switch, plate, PCB in different ways (decreasing / decreasing them in the various directions). Minute position changes while resoldering may be warranted to dampen stubborn switches.
My point is that industrial way to put the switches in place can't be good as a single person that checks carefully every operation, especially if the keyboard he is resoldering is his own one.
You can't expect this from industries, because one hour spent on a single keyboard doesn't matters for a single user. One hour spent for every keyboard produced means, for an industrial production, huge additional costs.
This means that in a brand new keyboard all the switches aren't in the position they should, and while this doesn't affects most of the switches, it exacerbates the ping of some others.
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Both my gen ones ping and my ninja pings. I actually like it. If I put them on a softer surface they are pretty silent but there's no way I'd dampen that sweet music.
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My point is that industrial way to put the switches in place can't be good, as a single person that checks carefully every operation, especially if the keyboard he is resoldering is his own one.
You can't expect this from industries, because one hour spent on a single keyboard doesn't matters for a single users. One hour spent for every keyboard produced means, for an industrial production, huge additional costs.
This means that in a brand new keyboard all the switches aren't in the position they should, and while this doesn't affects most of the switches, it exacerbates the ping of some others.
Seconded. The end user is recruited to the Quality Control team, without pay.
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It's no new problem
Even Ripster's Blue TKL rings badly.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?12126-Filco-noise&p=233708&viewfull=1#post233708
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What's TKL?
This is me doing more normal typing.
And the idea of someone resoldering switches to try this to fix it is ludicrous at best.
You guys just need to man up as shown clearly in the PING POLL! Or as I say in the above link get a Topre and pay the bucks for your OCD.
Quoting from 3 days ago:
What's TKL?
TKL is short for TenKeyLess...where have you been?
Short memmory! :P
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Little by little it seems to me that this is a
(http://www.ladyboychat.co.uk/public/images/headers/ladyboychat_co_uk.jpg)
Ping, Ring, Zing, Bing .... I don't give a damn! I still love the sound of my filcos!
Btw ... Too many RMAs and keybordco will probably stop distributing filcos to north america :(
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It's no new problem
Even Ripster's Blue TKL rings badly.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?12126-Filco-noise&p=233708&viewfull=1#post233708
That sound sample is to me the perfect example of the noise we've been describing.
http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12992&d=1287064520
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Sound samples or it didn't happen!
You'd make a lousy witness. :music:
BTW, I was wrong about my 1st-gen Filco keyboards. This is the actual situation:
Tenkeyless (x2), blue switches - very slight ping, immediately deadened.
Tenkeyless (x2), brown switches - very slight ping, immediately deadened.
Tenkeyless (x1, black otaku), brown switches - no ping.
Tenkeyless (x2), black switches - noticeable ping, quickly deadened.
As you can see, I really like Filco keyboards! Until this week I never thought about pinging or ringing as an issue. I don't think it matters the slightest bit, unless it's loud and causes the metal plate to resonate. (The so-called Tuning Fork Effect.)
Anyhow, I shouldn't have used the word "ping" to describe the "sustained metallic ringing" of the keyboards I returned to Amazon. That was confusing.
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Unlike Welly's, this is an ACTUAL problem that a lot of people are experiencing, regardless of how you type.
And don't compare me to Welly. That's like comparing you to webwit.
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That sound sample is to me the perfect example of the noise we've been describing.
http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=12992&d=1287064520
Not for me, I can't hear any pinging sound here and in the ripster's sample, I just hear a squeaking high pitched sound, that sounds like more as a lack of lube than a pinging/tuning fork sound.
So It's time to clarify what is the Filco's problem, pinging, squeaking or both ?
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For me it was more of a ringing than anything else. None of my other keyboards do it.
If I wanted to experience all that metal on metal action, I'd watch robot porn.
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For me it was more of a ringing than anything else. None of my other keyboards do it.
So similar to the sample I posted before ?
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Didn't get a chance to listen to the samples yet. I'm on vacation.
Ripster should take one sometime.
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You've become very trollish lately.
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To be perfectly honest, no. It was my first Filco and I just assumed that was how those keyboards were.
Back then everyone thought it was a plate mounted vs PCB mounted issue.
Got anymore brainbuster questions for me trollster?
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BTW, I was wrong about my 1st-gen Filco keyboards. This is the actual situation:
Tenkeyless (x1, black otaku), brown switches - no ping.
Sounds like you just want your favorite to not have it.
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Solutor's sound sample was the best. You could really hear it, no OCD required.
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But Solutor's sounds fake. Like it's been AutoTuned.
Ripster, really, you don't feel ridiculous ?
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[video=youtube;-s8tLanswAI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s8tLanswAI[/video]
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I still think Solutor's sound sample sounds a bit fake. Why are the clicks so different?
Maybe because both my recording equipment and my keyboard are better than yours ? :becky:
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The Koreans want to weigh in on this controversy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLII-ya6h9o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLII-ya6h9o)
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What's TKL?
This is me doing more normal typing.
And the idea of someone resoldering switches to try this to fix it is ludicrous at best.
You guys just need to man up as shown clearly in the PING POLL (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18739-Have-you-experienced-the-Filco-quot-ping-quot-noise)! Or as I say in the above link get a Topre and pay the bucks for your OCD.
That audio file you posted has clearly a ringing right at the beginning and again around 0:15.
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This way you will never pass the admission test for the elementary school
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Well, since Solutor came through and did the resoldering (you asked him to do it first) now it's your turn. We need more data!
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look it's simple if you can't hear the pingggggg from the sound files provided by these ppl then you're OLD, you cannot hear higher frequencies cuz you're just getting old, i linked that test a bit back and if you can't hear frequencies you are either OLD or loosing your hearing.
and again another link to showcase the lose of hearing.
http://journal.plasticmind.com/ears/mosquito-tone-or-how-to-tell-youre-a-youngun/
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I can hear 16khz and maybe 17khz ( but I'm not sure If I hear the 17khz) so maybe 16.5khz is my max. hearing.
Used AKG K530LTD for hearing test.
So which frequenceny has c# or c or which one so guys said, the ping is? 2khz?
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2khz ? No, it's in a lower octave. Based on my observation the notes other people posted, it ranges between 450-550Hz.
I can hear the 18khz by the way. It's probably because I don't have a music player blasting my ears. I think lots of younger people have bad hearing because of this.
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I don't use mp3 players often.
And have the best hearing in my family.
And I'm still young but mature.
I gues my headphones limit. (AKG K530LTD) but tomorrow I may retry with my speakers (Nubert 311)
Fact is, there is a metallic noise and some are bothered by it.
But I personally can't tell if that is "normal" for mechanical keyboards.
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Was at Lowe's today anyway so picked up some expansion foam. Monday could get interesting.
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Ranks up there with Welly in "My Filco Keycaps Are Getting Shiny (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?7474-Filco-keyboards-normal-for-matte-key-finish-to-start-wearing-after-1-month)".
This is completely different. As you have pointed out, the shine on keycaps is just wabi-sabi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi).
But an annoying, sustained metallic ringing is a defect. Why is it so hard for you to understand this? And why is the buyer supposed to fix defects on a brand-new keyboard? If some people want to fix theirs, that's great - but why are you making such a big deal about the simple return of defective merchandise?
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This is completely different. As you have pointed out, the shine on keycaps is just wabi-sabi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi).
But an annoying, sustained metallic ringing is a defect. Why is it so hard for you to understand this? And why is the buyer supposed to fix defects on a brand-new keyboard? If some people want to fix theirs, that's great - but why are you making such a big deal about the simple return of defective merchandise?
That's the way some people act about products they like. In ripster's case, he's been a strong Filco advocate for months/years. Any defect with one of them he takes as a personal assault. Given the signature, touch-in-cheekiness aside, it's clear he has a high opinion of his own reputation. Thus he's not going let some random forum person tarnish the reputation of his personally recommended brand.
Ironically has no problem trashing the **** out of many non-Filco brands that other people like. My advice is to not take the act too seriously.
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That's the way some people act about products they like. In ripster's case, he's been a strong Filco advocate for months/years. Any defect with one of them he takes as a personal assault. [...]
Thanks. I like Filco keyboards a lot, and I shouldn't have said or implied that there's a general problem with the 2nd-gen. Filco's metallic ringing. I only know for sure about two of them. (It's hard to hear it in the audio clips.) It could be a rare problem. And maybe some people wouldn't call it a serious defect, but for me it is.
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ripster tends to post a lot. And people who are outspoken tend to attract a lot of negative attention and scrutiny.
I for one welcome our new mechanical keyboard overlords.
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In all honesty, redpills video sounds a little like my Das Keyboard w/ Blues. Maybe it has something to do with switch type *shrug*
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Doesn't bother me, I was just sayin...
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Indeed
Other than wearable legends, twisted stems, pingy switches and squeaking spacebsars, filcos are notoriously defect free... :pound:
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All of these are in your head.
And in any search engine.
I'm starting to believe Noodle's assertion that you are a Xarmor rep in disguise.
Yes most companies are used to have Italian reps for products sold just in the US. :pound:
I think will be hard for you to produce a sentence more stupid than the quoted one, but I'm sure you will manage to find one, sooner or later.
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I finally got around to making a video of the leo vs the ninja:
[video=youtube;0dqJrjshcyg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dqJrjshcyg[/video]
The ping/bing/ RING / whatever on the filco should be obvious at the end when I'm pressing single keys.
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I finally got around to making a video of the leo vs the ninja:
Finally a good example of a pinging filco
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And that's with you typing pretty hard.
Yeah, I was trying to emphasize the ringing sound. As I said before, you don't notice it if you type softer and try not to bottom out.
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Yours is obviously fake.
Obviously.
I'm used to waste my time in audio editing just to fool a 3 years old child from S. Francisco...
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The Leopold rings, too.
But not as hard as the Filco.
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In fact with thousands of shipping Filcos most people learn to live with it.
Right, because you should have to "learn to live with" a product you just spent $150 on. Stop shilling so hard before you strain something.
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I get some of those rings on my Das right now too if I press them that hard... Are people really that bothered by it? I don't know.. I guess I just don't press down on my keyboard that hard to ever hear it while typing.
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I get some of those rings on my Das right now too if I press them that hard... Are people really that bothered by it? I don't know.. I guess I just don't press down on my keyboard that hard to ever hear it while typing.
Two separate issues. Typical spring ping is not what is being described. What is being described is when the entire metal plate on the Filco rings like a tuning fork.
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Well, if that's the case. Does it happen on all of the ninja's? I was actually going to order one in a few moments.
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The Leopold rings, too.
But not as hard as the Filco.
yup, it's just more pronounced on the ninja
I get some of those rings on my Das right now too if I press them that hard... Are people really that bothered by it? I don't know.. I guess I just don't press down on my keyboard that hard to ever hear it while typing.
Yeah, when typing softly I hardly ever notice it. I suppose the people who will be most bothered by it are the ones who type harder.
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I don't really feel like reading through the whole thread, but I have a very similar pinging sound on my filco tenkeyless with mx-browns. While it doesn't really bother me, there is a noticeable ringing that will last for about 2 to 3 seconds when bottoming out and a short and much more quiet noise when not bottoming out, which would then come from the switch springing back into position. It has the same tuning fork like sound to it and makes the whole case vibrate slightly (when holding it up with one hand, while typing with the other).
I think it's the same sound described here in the thread (and the videos). Then again also having a G80-3000 with blue switches around, I don't see a reason to complain, as the ringing is about three times as loud on that keyboard. Seeing how the browns don't ring on the Leopold earlier in the thread, I'm really curious to know why it rings on the filco or the cherry board. Then again it's a good way to force me to not bottom out when typing, so I guess that's one positive thing about it.
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Nah, just trying to dispel the OP's assertion that this is a Filco Ninja manufacturing defect of some kind.
I've identified four different states of Filco ringing/pinging:
1. No ping, just a dead click. (Sure, if you held it up to your ear you might hear a faint ping, but most people don't type that way.)
2. A very slight ping, quickly deadened. (1st-gen blues/browns.)
3. A more noticeable ping, quickly deadened. (1st-gen blacks.)
4. A loud, sustained RINGING, resounding through the metal plate. (2nd-gen browns, Ninja.)
Ripster, you don't have to keep repeating yourself and getting your knickers all twisted up. The more I think about it, the more it seems unlikely that many of the Filco Ninja keyboards have this problem - or there would've been lots more complaints by now. I probably just had some bad luck (x2).
BTW, I really can't hear much ringing in any of the samples posted so far. It's hard to record, I guess.
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I can definitely hear the ringing in fds's video.
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Mah knickahs ah twisted.
Sound samples or it didn't happen.
But when you hear the recordings you insist that they're fake! How infantile can you get? (Don't answer that.) :music:
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I tried blues on my g80 before, and definitely did not hear the ringing issue as with the Filco with browns. I have not heard it with any other switch or keyboard.
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I've identified four different states of Filco ringing/pinging:
4. A loud, sustained RINGING, resounding through the metal plate. (2nd-gen browns, Ninja.)
Like I'v said before, one of the first gen majestouch browns I've used did the ringing just like you're saying only 2nd gen keyboards do.
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I think you are twanging a open switch with a paper clip.
Got a video camera?
Call me liar and then apologizing one time should be enough for you, isn't it?
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Two separate issues. Typical spring ping is not what is being described. What is being described is when the entire metal plate on the Filco rings like a tuning fork.
I think is a good explanation, my pinging switch was alone and previously I had two of them on my Xarmor, this can be explained by the tolerances on the switch building process and on unevenness on the soldering process.
Instead looks like Filcos are affected on almost every switches and this can't be explained by cherry's tolerances, but just by the materials used and the soldering process.
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I find your logic extremely odd.
This makes my logic even more solid.
Please don't agree with me or I will start to doubt about myself.
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Another happy customer at OCN! (http://www.overclock.net/13856403-post60.html)
Per the quote, if all he hears is "click click click" then it goes against your suggestion that this is a common occurrence that someone "needs to get over." On the keyboard I have, there is absolutely no way you can not hear it. Whether it bothers you or not I guess is up to personal preference, but it is unmistakably present. It is an actual issue that may not be common and is definitely not normal.
I think I'm busting out the foam today. Arrange a lego prayer session please.
Meanwhile this thread is awesome FUD.
The irony...
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At least this finally explains why you call the buttons "keys", they are musical instruments
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It would be more interesting if they generated different tones. I'm getting tired of B♭
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It would be more interesting if they generated different tones. I'm getting tired of B♭
And could be misleading for the C# programmers...
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FUD when people on other keyboard forums start worrying about something that is not a manufacturing defect.
How is it not a manufacturing defect? You wishing it isn't doesn't make it so.
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Denial. You're the one emotionally invested here.
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Soap.
(http://www.infm.ulst.ac.uk/~ecf8mcj/Dali%20Dreamscape/Fight%20Club2.jpg)
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Speaking about illusionist, did you see this ?
[video=youtube;jvXqXcVF5S8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvXqXcVF5S8&feature=player_profilepage[/video]
Likely the first smart thing seen about an iphone
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I'm starting to see double. Damn liquor.
Speaking of movies, don't watch "The Tree of Life". Except if you like RealForce.
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Newsflash - my HHKB pings/rings if I release a key in a snap. Thereby, I promote the Topre as mechanical keyboards.
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I am Sirius. But don't have mikes, let alone good ones. So only private ringing/pinging/dinging parties are possible, and I've got some liquids that amplify the sensory effects.
I ping, therefore I am mecha. (or Mecca)
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Here is a sound sample of a really annoying ping, ring, ding, ....
[video=youtube;wrLwsz-Ej6I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrLwsz-Ej6I[/video]
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HHKB lacks metal plate, so the ring/ping/ding is kinda uninspiring and atonal.
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It's not bad on a RealForce.
Once again, inaudible UNLESS you do that push and snap release technique in Redpills video
Which is exactly what I did with my samples
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Once again, inaudible UNLESS you do that push and snap release technique in Redpills video (the best so far).
Totally wrong. It's very audible the entire time, which is why I noticed it to begin with (you can't avoid noticing it, it's there). I used the snap and release technique for demonstration purposes because all I had was an iPhone mic.
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I would say there definitely is a ringing sound and while it may not be a defect, it is there and can be quite annoying. I'm wondering a little more about what would be causing the sound, as it is there on the filco keyboard, but not (or not to the same extend) on the Leopold shown earlier around here. I would guess that it' the metal plate swinging but that would not explain, why I am hearing the same thing on a G80 which does not have a plate. I think I will have a closer look tomorrow. If it's actually the metal plate, would dampening it maybe help?
The sound has by now become quite annoying, as I seem to notice it more since I know about it. I probably really shouldn't hang around here. It does not make you a happier person...
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I am appalled to see that we, as a community here on Geekhack has not come closer to consensus to this issue.
To sum up:
* It does not happen on all Filco keyboards. Only some
* This is not about Filco, specifically. The phenomenon has been observed on other keyboards with Cherry MX switches. It is only that Filco is a modern (not vintage) keyboard model that is relatively common on this board.
* It happens each time you press a key, during normal typing.
* A type of ringing could also be heard from a non-pinging keyboard if you press it and release it quickly.
* The plate could amplify the pinging sound, but several members have keyboards without a plate where you can also hear it during normal typing.
* A few members have both keyboards that ping and keyboards that don't ping. One member even has a keyboard where one single switch pings and the others don't.
* Several sound samples have been posted in this thread. The best ones are on page four, because you can compare one pinging keyboard with one that doesn't.
My theory is still that some batches of Cherry MX switches were made with different springs than others, and that these springs are the cause of the ping. That would explain why only some keyboards ping.
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Denial. You're the one financially invested here.
Fixed that for you.
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I've been noticing it a bit more on my Browns as well at work during fast and furious coding sessions. However, my black and red boards do not exhibit any ringing whatsoever. And on the brown board it's very slight.
I guess I just don't know what's so polarizing about this issue.
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why are you ppl arguing? if you can hear it, then great you have good hearing, if you cannot hear it, then too bad for you, you're old or have lost your hearing. I know those of you who do not hear it do not want to admit that you're old and lost hearing or are loosing it, so the only explanation you have is that other ppl are just "hearing" things, but that's the case. Trust me, when i was told I was color blind, i didn't believe it, i said but i see colors!, they just happen to be the wrong colors.
seriously take online hearing tests or do some of the links for the frequencies i posted, otherwise it's just gonna be more of the
he said,
ripster said
kind of deals.
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I am appalled to see that we, as a community here on Geekhack has not come closer to consensus to this issue.
That's because the issue is being deliberately obscured. They have led you to the conclusion that this is a single issue, but it is not. The issue that you describe in several of your points is the typical manner of mechanical switch ping that comes with the territory of mechanical keyboards. Some individual switches make more noise than others. That is very different than the "Filco Ring" issue wherein the entire keyboard resonates regardless of which key is pressed, aside from the fact the larger keys make it worse. That's because in this case it is not the individual springs that are the issue, it is the metal plate that is amplifying their normal resonance.
In my case I have a Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Browns and a KBC Poker with Cherry Browns on the same desk, in the same environment, and the difference is so unmistakable no one hearing it in person could possibly claim it is a matter of just switch noise. To me it is obvious this is a design or manufacturing issue related to the metal plate on the Filco.
I didn't buy this Filco to complain about it, or try to destroy it with expanding insulating foam (which I might have done, will know more tomorrow); I bought it because I thought it was the best full size keyboard that had Cherry Browns on it. But the ring was there, and at first it was just a minor annoyance but when I had people coming into my office and pointing it out I knew it wasn't just me. I can't live my entire office life in the key of B flat. Sorry.
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its a sad day in filco ninja land
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I think you guys are arguing just so you can type more key strokes on your favorite keyboards, hear more pings. I am waiting patiently to receive noodles Filco blues. My new white Filco reds pings, too, if I go listen **ping** for it. But when I type I am too focus to **ping** hear anything.... **ping**
Aaaarg, just lost my chain of thought...
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you got the tracking # right?
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you got the tracking # right?
Yes sir! The tracking number is working. I hope the UPS truck is not going to shake too much and settle the springs and get rid of the pings.
Oh, I forgot about this book that got for my kid, when he could hear high pitch noise:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61GzWzth50L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Story-about-Reading-Railroad-Books/dp/0448421658/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308025151&sr=8-1)
Quack!
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I guess we can all think of it this way: none of those rubber dome keyboards even has a ring/ping/zing. So there you go, enjoy!
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quack
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It would be more interesting if they generated different tones. I'm getting tired of B♭
I'm getting C and C#. We should swap some keys. How is that expanding foam doing? Hope it doesn't expand forcefully and bends/cracks your PCB. Also, does it say if it's non-conductive ?
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[ATTACH=CONFIG]19123[/ATTACH]
The new logo...
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I'm getting C and C#. We should swap some keys. How is that expanding foam doing? Hope it doesn't expands forcefully and bends/cracks your PCB. Also, does it say if it's non-conductive ?
The foam should be cured now, it's at the office so I'll check when I get there. It's flexible, and should be non-conductive as it's mostly polyurethane and for use in home insulation applications where I would think non-conductivity would be required. So we should be good on those two fronts. I think the problem will be that because it is so effective in getting into every crevasse that it will interfere with the switches making contact with the PCB. Keeping my fingers crossed, but I expect we may need LEGO burial detail later today.
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You can use also the spray streamers (i don't know how they are exactly called in english, i mean the ones used in parties) should be way easier to use them to fill the tiny space between the switches
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Silly string :) I don't think I would have been able to get it far enough in there. As it was, the only way to get the foam in far enough was to rig up an extra straw that was narrower than the one that came on the bottle and splice them together.
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Silly string :)
Exactly, tank you.
As it was, the only way to get the foam in far enough was to rig up an extra straw that was narrower than the one that came on the bottle and splice them together.
For similar tasks I usually use the cap from a different spray can, like the one that comes with some spray electrical deoxidizers, not all of them are compatible, but with a decent number of donor cans the right one shouldn't be too hard to find.
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I am appalled to see that we, as a community here on Geekhack has not come closer to consensus to this issue.
So far I've seen two Filco keyboards that have the "Filco Ring". My other Filcos have had little or no pinging, or if they ping it's dampened right away. IMO there's a big difference between some slight or moderate "pinging" - and a loud, annoying resonance (of one note) in a keyboard's metal plate. This isn't a trivial issue, like a shine-mark on a spacebar. It isn't imaginary or FUD. "Sound samples or it didn't happen" isn't a valid criticism, because when samples are provided they're called fake. Anyway, I think it's hard to get a good recording of this.
Some other keyboards have a known problem with ringing. See for example this review (http://telcontar.net/Misc/reviews/MatiasTactilePro3/) (linked to from the GH keyboard review section) of the Matias Tactile Pro 3, especially this part:
"Sadly, the Tactile Pro 3 does not achieve the same clean sound as other ALPS keyboards including the FILCO Zero range. My FILCO Zero XM has the crispest, driest sound of any mechanical keyboard, but the Tactile Pro 3 is quite the opposite: you’re treated to an excessive level of spring vibration from the switches, that gives it a constant high pitched ringing sound as you type. The switch mounting also gives the strokes a higher pitch sound, and the overall effect is somewhat disturbing. Spring reverberation is to be expected in mechanical keyboards, but it's absent from my Cherry MX blue FILCO and it’s absent from the ATK and FILCO Zero XM ALPS keyboards. I do hear it on my Cherry MX brown FILCO, but it’s not disturbingly loud as it is with the Tactile Pro 3. Placing the keyboard onto carpet does damp this excess vibration nicely though, so it’s probably a flaw in the way the switches are mounted."
I didn't try carpet, but I did put my ringing Filcos on a double layer of rubber shelf-liner and it didn't help one bit. I'm not a keyboard expert, but "it’s probably a flaw in the way the switches are mounted" sounds plausible to me. For the Filcos it isn't a general problem - it's just limited to some individual keyboards.
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@redpill
Please post some pictures of your foam calamity.
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@redpill
Please post some pictures of your foam calamity.
New thread coming shortly.
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The sustain on this thread is terrible.
Do you mean the sustain effect meant to get longer sounds ? :happy:
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Haha. Sustain is good for things like guitars. Fixed bridge beats a tremolo. No interference, no detune of some strings while you bend others, better sound transfer, and better sustain. That video for guitar tremolo spring silencing was good though.
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mike my reverb
aka mike tyson.
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I'm not usually the kind of person that bashes someone, but:
First of all, had you done any real research on mechanical keyboards before throwing money out the window, you would have known mechanical keyboards are generally louder than their rubber-dome counterparts. Mechanical keyboards are known for their precision, tactile feel, and (for the most part) general lack of needing to bottom out keys to produce a successful keystroke.
Second of all, you should have done your research. I happen to love the sound of both browns and blues though I prefer brown for everyday use. Mechanical keyboards will sound a lot louder when keys are bottomed out as opposed to when they're pushed just to the actuation point. Everyone used to rubber-dome keyboards will be bottoming out keys when switching to mechanical because just about all rubber-dome boards are made to be bottomed out for successful keystrokes.
Edit: Old post but I had to.
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I'm not usually the kind of person that bashes someone, but:
First of all, had you done any real research on mechanical keyboards before throwing money out the window, you would have known mechanical keyboards are generally louder than their rubber-dome counterparts.
Obviously you didn't read any of the other posts in this thread.
I've been using mechanical keyboards for many years. The Filco keyboards I returned to Amazon were very different from my other Filco's. The ones I sent back were badly defective.
I didn't "throw money out the window" - I received a full refund, including for the shipping, both ways.
But thanks anyway for your concern. :music:
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*bite-lip* Bilco!
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I didn't "throw money out the window" - I received a full refund, including for the shipping, both ways.
But thanks anyway for your concern. :music:
Imagine that, a discerning consumer who would rather get his money's worth out of a $150 keyboard than please the Filco Sycophants on GH by trying to ignore the unignorable. Kudos to you sir.
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Hey genzeleam...
(http://i918.photobucket.com/albums/ad28/CptFox/Misc/SamJackson.gif)
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Okay, so I took the keycaps off the T Key (pinger) and the G Key (non-pinger). In this sample, you hear the T first and then the G and then the T again. I had to hold it upside down over my macbook to get the mic recording to work.
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Seriously?
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Does that mean it's bad, or that I am nitpicking too much? I hope it's the latter.
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In my somewhat limited experience, that's a pretty standard Cherry switch.
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In my somewhat limited experience, that's a pretty standard Cherry switch.
I figured that before I typed on the Poker, but then again, that doesn't have a metal plate for sound to reverberate from. If I pay attention, it ends up sounding like redpill's sample on page 4 during a real typing session.
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That's why some of us keep ranting for samples and that the issue doesn't exist. I won't believe that a Filco is the solution to 'needs more cowbell' until I hear a sample that proves it.
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Seeing as how there are serious keyboard collectors I wouldn't be surprised if they could resell it at their normal rate.
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Yeah
Even filco boards.... :pound:
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Well ****. I started noticing the pinging in my MJ-2 TKL w/ blues last night.
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Nah rip, I used to be on your side about this. I figured that people were just being overcritical or had really sensitive hearing. I was typing in dead silence last night and could definitely hear pinging with every key press.
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shouldnt make a ninja zink zoink bing? and disappear? (lol sry^^) all the filcos i tested yesterday havent had this pingthing-problem^^
and i ve tested over 10 filcos and 5 das.
could it be that you re expecting too much from a 150 board and are too sensitive in that case,
all solid manufactured plates have the ability to transfer sound i dont think they re wrong manufactured. and people who bought this first time and have had rubberdomes before should try other boards before complaining at all^^.
even my mx11900 sometime pings if i am hard concentrated on this behavior. and the mx11900 is like a rock on my desk.
you could make near every mechanical keyboard this sound, if you want to. (bottoming out makes this sound, hard pressing makes this sound too, snapping the switch makes this sound too, every press makes this sound far or less ) your desks are possibly a reason too. light wood or other materials make sounds even louder too.
and i agree 100% with ripster...##
filco has a superb quality management. there is nothing wrong with your keyboards maybe with yourself :D
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I've used like 3 or 4 keyboards with browns, and only the tenkeyless Filco had the ringing issue.
None of my other Filcos do it.
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And I have 2 Filco tenkeyless w/ brown and they make any untoward noise.
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Decision, decision. Should I get a Prius and get an artificial engine noise maker, or should I get a BMW M3 and complain about the raspy exhaust?
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Wrong. Get an Infiniti G37 with neither issue.
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But the G37 is still much noisier than the Prius. I am returning the G37. I am going to buy a Prius and drive on the right lane. Wait, I will still drive on the left lane to annoy the noisy, fast, G37s and M3s.
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G37's are pretty quiet. I drove one.
Their engines sound very nice, like a Topre.
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They fart if you get real close?
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I have actually not experienced the Topre fart personally. But I believe that some people have.
I am not ripster.
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So rubber dome is Prius, Cherries are M3, and Topre is G37. What would Alps and BS been?
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or should I get a BMW M3 and complain about the raspy exhaust?
E46 M3 I assume you mean, the V8 in the E92 doesn't rasp. But your analogy is invalid for several reasons:
1) All stock E46 M3s have raspy exhaust, it's consistent and deliberate. The Filco ring is neither.
2) There are numerous after market options that eliminate or change the character of the exhaust rasp. These options are not only numerous but typically cost 2% or less of the car's new purchase value. There is no easy solution to a loudly ringing Filco.
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So rubber dome is Prius, Cherries are M3, and Topre is G37. What would Alps and BS been?
Ford and Buick.
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Me caps have worn off already. All shiny where my tips have been at them. Even on the keyboard where my hand has rested. They should make keycaps shiny to begin with.
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Its them bloody badgers at my cabbage patch again.
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Well GeekHack IS the best of all those other forums.
With one huge exception, of course.
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Meanwhile as promised I carefully checked my new Qpad blue, as expected zero pinging key, zero unwanted resonances, just the blue's click.
P.S. out of curiosity, you ever noticed some differences on the stability of blue large keys v.s. other cherries on filco boards ?
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Meanwhile all other keyboard forums remain silent on this Filco Ninja supposed "ping curse
Bull****, and you know it. Stop trolling. You've been making a tour of the keyboard forums out there with your denial/insult the poster/claim it's made up/McGurk crap just like you do here. Get the **** over it and grow up, you're acting like a child. So a few Filcos are defective, you'll live. You don't have to be a **** and try to pretend it doesn't exist.
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Meanwhile all other keyboard forums remain silent on this Filco Ninja supposed "ping curse".
Much better than your pseudoscientific bull**** and incessant threadcrapping are the views of elitekeyboards (formerly the US seller of Filco keyboards):
- Second complaint about board sounds related to the pings and resonance from FILCOs; 90% of the time with MX Browns. [...] On a several occasions we replaced MX Brown switches that exhibited very loud resonance [emphasis added].
Unless you're a total blockhead you must admit that at least some Filco keyboards have a problem with "very loud resonance." To pretend that these defective keyboards don't exist is just being stupid.