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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: mgrmgr on Wed, 15 June 2011, 10:47:58

Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: mgrmgr on Wed, 15 June 2011, 10:47:58: I need a keyboard with an L-Shaped Enter key because my fine motor hand control is poor and I often mis-key with the standard Enter keys. Also, backlit keys are important, especially with today's black keyboards which make keys hard to see to begin with for an old fart like myself.

Something like the Razer BlackWidow Ultimate but with an L-shaped Enter key would be perfect. While there is a German layout version of the BlackWidow Ultimate that has an L-shaped Enter, I'm uncomfortable trying to buy it from overseas...and the prices are over $200! Also, I'm doubly reluctant because I keep hearing about so many problems with the BlackWidow Ultimates, and overseas returns could be a problem.

If a keyboard with both backlighting and the L-shape Enter key aren't to be fount, I'm after a mechanical keyboards with a tactile feel and clicky sound like the MX Blue keyswitches have. From my looking on the net, I might settle for a Zowie Celeritas Gaming Keyboard which has repeatedly excellent reviews and would be perfect if only it were backlit.

Any thoughts?

Still digging on the web. _/\/\ichael{R}
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 15 June 2011, 10:57:17: Freshly released.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=KB-000-XM
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: mgrmgr on Wed, 15 June 2011, 11:06:13: Quote from: The Solutor;361143
Freshly released.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=KB-000-XM

Are you recommending this (a board without an L-shaped Enter key) as a better alternative to the Zowie Celeritas if I can't find a board with both backlit and an L-shape?

In any case, thanks. _/\/\ichael{R}
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 15 June 2011, 11:11:55: It's an UK layout board. Then is an ISO board with the correctly shaped enter
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: mgrmgr on Wed, 15 June 2011, 11:23:00: Quote from: The Solutor;361155
It's an UK layout board. Then is an ISO board with the correctly shaped enter

By "correctly shaped" my fine young man, do I assume you mean one shaped like a sausage instead of like an "L"? If so, that would be the "incorrectly" shaped one.

:peep:

In any case, the picture of the recommended keyboard was of the sausage variety which I cannot live with at any price. Backlit I can live without, but hot the L-shape Enter.

Did I miss something?
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 15 June 2011, 11:25:10: Quote from: mgrmgr;361160
By "correctly shaped"

Correctly shaped mean ISO = L shaped

The red tetris piece one is ANSI, which is just an american standard.
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 15 June 2011, 11:27:52: And this is the unofficial

(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5381/evolutionr.png)
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: benis on Wed, 15 June 2011, 11:31:32: Ansi ftw!!1!
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 15 June 2011, 11:31:53: Quote from: ripster;361168
You should attribute Webwit for creating that.

What have to do webwit with my keyboards ?

I signed that image just because your notoriously poor memory.
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: The Solutor on Wed, 15 June 2011, 11:43:20: Quote from: ripster;361178

Damn, wish Webwit wasn't so right on this one.

This is the first time I see that image, btw what has to do with the enter keys ?

The lower part is the first image you find searching about evolution with google.

So what's your problem ?
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: mgrmgr on Wed, 15 June 2011, 13:25:18: Quote from: ripster;361163
This is official Geekhack Enter Key nomenclature from the All About Keys Wiki.
Show Image
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5167/5344904700_683d9e7af8_z.jpg)

I was surprised when even the asian geekhackers agreed.

The pix of the different Enter keys is really helpful. So I'm after ISO, Bigass or BIGass, not that I'm not already sitting on one of the latter two.

But back to my thread origin: Do you know of any boards that are both backlit and have any of the latter three Enter keys?

The German layout Razer BlackWidow Ultimate is the only one I've found and I'm not willing to risk an overseas order on a keyboard with such frequent problems.

Hmm...if not backlit, which high quality mechanical keyboard (preferably MX Blue or Brown) with the "correct" Enter key has keys that are easiest to see for someone with aging vision?

This shouldn't be so hard! _/\/\ichael{R}
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 15 June 2011, 13:30:16: That link in the second post points to one. Even though the picture is the wrong 'stock photo'
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: mgrmgr on Wed, 15 June 2011, 13:31:30: Quote from: The Solutor;361143
Freshly released.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=KB-000-XM

This link is too a board with the standard ANSI Enter key not one of the L-shapes. I'm confused why you pointed me to it.

My first priority is an L-shape Enter key which I can't live without. Backlit would be nice.

_/\/\ichael{R}
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: mgrmgr on Wed, 15 June 2011, 13:34:03: Quote from: alaricljs;361239
That link in the second post points to one. Even though the picture is the wrong 'stock photo'

Oops, my last question was already answered before I asked. Let me go take another gander at that link.

Thanks, _/\/\ichael{R}
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 15 June 2011, 13:37:08: Did you read my post? It's what you are looking for even tho the picture is the wrong one.

edit: Glad we've got that figured out
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: mgrmgr on Wed, 15 June 2011, 14:20:40: Belatedly, I did read it. Apologies for missing it right off. Yes, now that I understand that the pic is wrong, it would almost be the perfect keyboard. If its UK layout is like others I'm finding, then the " (quotation) key has moved above QW on the #2 key, right? And the # key is replaced by a £ key as well? Any other changes from the standard US I've missed?

Hmm, if this is my only choice to get an ISO Enter and backlit keys, I think I can learn to work around those changes.

_/\/\ichael{R}
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: mgrmgr on Fri, 17 June 2011, 06:24:08: Quote from: The Solutor;361143
Freshly released.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=KB-000-XM

After a lot of head scratching and nail biting, I've jumped on your recommendation and ordered the board this morning. It's a lot of money when $40 dollars is added for shipping. At least the 20% VAT gets knocked off the site price for shipments out of the UK. Aside from a few key changes I'll have to adjust to, this looks like the board I've always wanted and could never find.

This forum is a keeper!

Thank you, Sir Solutor! _/\/\ichael{R}
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: Ascaii on Fri, 17 June 2011, 06:37:42: You could always try switching in a set of ANSI alphanumerical caps, caps for backlit boards can be had from DECK at http://www.deckkeyboards.com, not sure of the cost though, it was a while ago that i read someone had got a replacement set from deck.

Quote from: mgrmgr;362290
After a lot of head scratching and nail biting, I've jumped on your recommendation and ordered the board this morning. It's a lot of money when $40 dollars is added for shipping. At least the 20% VAT gets knocked off the site price for shipments out of the UK. Aside from a few key changes I'll have to adjust to, this looks like the board I've always wanted and could never find.

This forum is a keeper!

Thank you, Sir Solutor! _/\/\ichael{R}
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: mgrmgr on Fri, 17 June 2011, 06:58:37: Quote from: ripster;361279
I'd get a Razer over a Qpad if I were you.

The Razer BlackWidow hate at OCN is waaaaaaaaay overblown. Manyak's review of it was actually quite positive.

For proof positive of the silly Razer hate check this thread there: 9K views and 396 posts.
#396 is the best. (http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/1032979-another-reason-not-buy-razer-40.html#post13881660)

Thread started by a Geekhacker. Lol.

Perhaps wudda, shudda, cudda...but the Razer doesn't have the large Enter key I can't live without. :frown:
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: mgrmgr on Fri, 17 June 2011, 07:07:42: Quote from: Ascaii;362293
You could always try switching in a set of ANSI alphanumerical caps, caps for backlit boards can be had from DECK at http://www.deckkeyboards.com, not sure of the cost though, it was a while ago that i read someone had got a replacement set from deck.

Hmm...how does that work? Simple-minded me assumed the character sent to the screen had to do with the position on the board and not the keycap placed there. Not so? Intriguing idea if it would work.

I'll keep the possibility in mind and wait to see how much trouble I have finding the ", #, @ keys in the UK layout.
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 17 June 2011, 08:05:46: Actually what gets sent to the computer is only partly determined by the KB. Then there's also the language setting on the system itself.
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: Ascaii on Fri, 17 June 2011, 09:12:54: exactly. it is easy to change the language setting in all windows versions.
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 17 June 2011, 10:08:30: Quote from: mgrmgr;362290

Thank you, Sir Solutor! _/\/\ichael{R}

You are welcome.

Quote
Perhaps wudda, shudda, cudda...but the Razer doesn't have the large Enter key I can't live without.

BWU is available in the ISO versions, but limited to french and german one, not suggested if you aren't french or german.

BW non ultimate is also available in the UK variant, but is not backlit.

BTW BWs are inferior products, so be proud to not repeat my mistake (I bought a BW before going to Xarmor).

Quote
I'll keep the possibility in mind and wait to see how much trouble I have finding the ", #, @ keys in the UK layout.

I'm not British, but I think that the UK layout is the best available, other than the 105 keys and the correct enter, the differneces v.s. an US boards are minimal, and mostly welcomed.
Title: Link no longer working
Post by: Dario006 on Sun, 04 September 2011, 06:13:19: Hi all, I'm looking for the same things in a keyboard, and I'm scratching my head looking everywhere too. The link to the above keyboard doesn't seem to be working. Could anyone tell me the make/model please??

Thanks
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: foliolio on Sun, 04 September 2011, 07:01:30: Quote from: The Solutor;362389
BWU is available in the ISO versions, but limited to french and german one

BWU is also available in FIN/SWE layout.
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: shaippen on Sun, 04 September 2011, 09:07:10: Quote from: The Solutor;362389
I think that the UK layout is the best available, other than the 105 keys and the correct enter, the differneces v.s. an US boards are minimal, and mostly welcomed.

I'm curious why you think that, I have never used an ansi keyboard, but it seems to me that the key you lose really doesn't matter, and easier access to enter and left shift nice.
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: graywolf on Sun, 04 September 2011, 17:37:02: What a funny world it is. The correct name for that big reversed "L" shaped Enter (Return?) key is IBM Selectric style.

The easiest way to get one is to buy a Keytronic with the "L" enter key. They seem to make all their keyboard with, for typists, and without it, for nerds who mistakenly think they are "way cool". But then, most of the nerds have never seen an IBM Selectric Typewriter, much less typed on one.

Unfortunately for the OP, I do not think Keytronic makes a backlit one.

For those who do not know, Topre keyboards are cheap copies of the $15 Keytronics. The IBM model M keyboards are also cheap copies of the $15 Keytronics with a noisy spring added to make it sound like an IBM Selectric Typewriter.

I notice that even with all those expensive boutique keyboards they have come out with in the past few years, while I have been away from this board, no one has brought out that right-handed TKL with the trackpoint that I wanted. Actually, almost all computer keyboard are left-handed (the seldom used, from a typist's viewpoint, keys on the right side of the keyboard), but I guess there is nothing I can do about the nomenclature at this point.
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: The Solutor on Sun, 04 September 2011, 18:56:03: Quote from: shaippen;410426
I'm curious why you think that, I have never used an ansi keyboard, but it seems to me that the key you lose really doesn't matter

The key you lose is all but secondary on ISO boards, the ANSI enter key is easier to reach only for the younger US people grew with it, and the left shift on ISO boards is just symmetrical respect the right one, counting from the home position keys.

BTW in that message i was speaking more about the UK logical layout than the ISO physical one.

UK layout is a very good mix between the US layout that is handier to program and to use the shells, and a lot of national layouts good to type in the related national language.
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: graywolf on Mon, 05 September 2011, 18:35:39: That does not seem to be the Selectric model I used to type on. Oh well, we opinionated old farts are often wrong in our opinions. I notice that that one does have a "L" shaped tab key, as well as an ISO style return key.

I will stand by my statement that you can buy a tactile feedback "L" style enter key Ketronics for $15, from amazon.com for instance.
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: fuzzyx3000 on Mon, 05 September 2011, 19:04:48: what about the 6gv2?
Title: Keyboard - Backlit with L-Shaped Enter key?
Post by: graywolf on Fri, 30 September 2011, 09:46:50: Quote from: ripster;410613
Hmm... one problem with calling the reversed L "Selectric Style Enter".
Show Image
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/IBM_Selectric_typewriter.jpg)

Plus, BigAss has such a ring to it!

To prove your point you show a photo of a non US version of the Selectric typewriter? The US version of Selectric I & II had the reversed "L" Return key, the Selectric III had the ANSI style bar Return key. Anyone who wants to check me out on this only has to look at used Selectric typewriters on the US eBay.

For some reason Wikis are very British centric, I guess because their is something about the British that makes them like to publish long drawn out super detailed articles (whether they know what they are writing about or not). I am not an expert, but I have actually used the Selectric typewriter.