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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Zhennlash on Thu, 23 June 2011, 09:00:26

Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: Zhennlash on Thu, 23 June 2011, 09:00:26
Hiya all, first off let me say a big thanks to all the contributors and researchers providing quality reports on virtually all aspects of these keyboards! Unfortunately, due to the vast and dense nature of your collective works, I'm left having to ask for a general consensus =p

So here's where I am; I'd like to purchase a mechanical keyboard. I'd decided a while back that I wanted a MX blue based board, but now it seems the options are rather slim. Does anyone know of a retailer that could ship a FILCO with blue switches to the US? I've been searching for a while now and I've yet to find one.

As far as Cherrys go, I've considered a DAS but I'd prefer a FILCO for the keyboard cover aspect, as the dust problems the switches face leave me uncertain. Perhaps there is an adequate Blue solution with a compatible cover on the market?

If finding a Blue FILCO (or Blue coverable board) is impractical at this time, I have been kicking around a separate idea - Topre. Would the quality of the key presses be worth the loss of the clicky noise? How much better would you guys who own a Realforce say the experience is VS a Cherry based board and why?

Thanks for reading, I look forward to your responses!
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: foxer on Thu, 23 June 2011, 09:11:03
Get on eBay. A seller called qten on here offers MX blue Filco's. Not sure if he has full-sized but definitely has tenkeyless. :-)
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: Zhennlash on Thu, 23 June 2011, 09:16:42
Quote from: foxer;366064
Get on eBay. A seller called qten on here offers MX blue Filco's. Not sure if he has full-sized but definitely has tenkeyless. :-)
I checked eBay and only found one auction for a full "ninja" going at the moment. I'm unable to find "qten". Could you please give me a link to his account?
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: whocares1195 on Thu, 23 June 2011, 09:24:38
The ebay seller is qtan5370.  He could probably get you the board.
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: keyb_gr on Thu, 23 June 2011, 11:03:07
Quote from: Zhennlash;366058
Hiya all, first off let me say a big thanks to all the contributors and researchers providing quality reports on virtually all aspects of these keyboards! Unfortunately, due to the vast and dense nature of your collective works, I'm left having to ask for a general consensus =p
The general consensus on this forum is that "general consensus" and this forum do not go in one sentence. ;)
Quote from: Zhennlash;366058
As far as Cherrys go, I've considered a DAS but I'd prefer a FILCO for the keyboard cover aspect, as the dust problems the switches face leave me uncertain. Perhaps there is an adequate Blue solution with a compatible cover on the market?
Dust getting into the switches should be the very least of your worries - I'm not aware of it being any kind of major problem over here, where air conditioning in homes is very rare. I'd be more worried about liquids, which would typically be spilled when the cover is off (as the board would be in use). And of course, a black glossy surface is a fingerprint, dust and scratch magnet about as good as they come - they don't supply a cleaning cloth with the Das for no reason.
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: Zhennlash on Thu, 23 June 2011, 23:22:29
Hey guys, thanks for the link and input =)

I'm starting to lean heavily towards a Realforce as my first mechanical keyboard. From what I've read, they offer a very uniform experience that is an easy transition from rubber dome. Should I pick up one of these, what weight would be recommended for a fast typist with above average dexterity?* I want to make sure I'd be getting a keyboard with a weight that is most beneficial, presuming human errors would be at a minimum.

*I am a pianist =p Finger stamina/strength/precision come with the practice.
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: Zhennlash on Thu, 23 June 2011, 23:53:16
Quote from: kalrykh;366692
Realforces are an easy transition from rubber domes because they are rubber domes.  They don't feel like any other rubber dome I've ever used, but they don't feel like any other mechanical switch either.  If you go straight to a topre switch, you're going to start questioning why the hell you spent $300 on something that doesn't provide a dramatic difference from what you're accustomed to.  A cherry blue or brown switch would be a safe start.

I see you've got a FILCO ninja with Browns. How would you say they sound? I think I'd prefer a Blue, for the click aspect. Is there a difference in feel between Blue and Brown? Perhaps the Browns feel more sturdy?
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: False_Dmitry_II on Fri, 24 June 2011, 00:27:24
Solution: Buy the realforce and a model m. Then you get all general aspects. If it turns out you like one but not the other you can sell it in the classifieds. In fact, I'd suggest buying off the classifieds so that you don't lose money.

But as to what force stuff, I'd say just make sure it's uniform. If I were to get a realforce I'd get the highest one.
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: nigritude on Fri, 24 June 2011, 00:37:06
Quote from: kalrykh;366692
Realforces are an easy transition from rubber domes because they are rubber domes.  They don't feel like any other rubber dome I've ever used, but they don't feel like any other mechanical switch either.  If you go straight to a topre switch, you're going to start questioning why the hell you spent $300 on something that doesn't provide a dramatic difference from what you're accustomed to.  A cherry blue or brown switch would be a safe start.

Sort of agree with this. Realforces are a bit more subtle, but you will love it the more and more you use it. Then you will wonder how you typed with anything else. Can't agree with the decision for browns though --- I typed with topre for 5 months and then tried the browns for the first time. The browns just feel like a poorer made version of the topre's. Can't comment on the blues though, as I've never tried it.

Also, the keycap quality on the realforce is significantly better than the filco brown keycaps.
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: slueth on Fri, 24 June 2011, 00:46:22
realforce grows on you, if you don't give on it, it feels like the feeling improves with use or you become one with the cup.  Mx brown switches are really crisp and more tactile.  Make use of the classified while trying boards.
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: litster on Fri, 24 June 2011, 01:02:44
Most people here have more than one keyboard.  The most likely scenario is that you will buy one keyboard you think you will like, and then you will buy another keyboard that you think you will like more.  Would this assumption affect which keyboard you will buy first?

Whichever way you good, It will be an upgrade.  So enjoy!
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: Zhennlash on Sat, 25 June 2011, 07:24:32
Hey guys, well I've decided that Topre is going to be my choice. is the Realforce 103UB available from elitekeybords a safe bet? I see there are other weighted versions, but I like the idea of a gradient across keys. I think it'll remind me of my digital piano =p
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: Zhennlash on Sat, 25 June 2011, 09:43:50
Quote from: ripster;367685
Your digital piano has a weight gradient ACROSS the keys?  Time to call a Piano Tuner!
Show Image
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5028/5546928439_7d8a5e89b6_z.jpg)


Anywho the variable weighting is quite subtle and most people find it fine.

 
Now that's an actuation point test I can relate to! =D

Anywho, I don't quite get the joke. Maybe you thought I meant the keys themselves have a force variant on an individual basis? =p

I've got the Yamaha Nocturne personally, I find it perfect for my needs =)


Thanks for the input summary on the Realforce, I've made my decision!
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: Zhennlash on Sat, 25 June 2011, 10:03:06
Quote from: ripster;367714
In the piano world it's called TouchWeight (http://www.pianofinders.com/educational/touchweight.htm).   In the keyboard world it's called RipOmeter (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6189).

Oh, I think I see it now. From reading that article, it's clear that an inconsistent weight typically results in a harsh transition back to an instrumental piano. The Nocturne I have has weighted keys in a gradient from left to right, much like a traditional piano. So far, I've yet to encounter a traditional piano that didn't feel essentially the same weight-wise. Yamaha did an awesome job with this one, in my opinion =)
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: Zhennlash on Sat, 25 June 2011, 14:29:27
Do forgive the doublepost =/

So I've placed my order for a Realforce. Unfortunately, the keycap tool is unavailable. Do you guys reckon some jewelers screwdrivers wrapped in nitrile gloves will be a safe method for keycap removal?
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 25 June 2011, 14:40:00
Why bother removing the caps ?
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: Zhennlash on Sat, 25 June 2011, 14:57:48
Quote from: alaricljs;367848
Why bother removing the caps ?
I like the look of the lavender WASD's and the red ESC's, do you know if they're of similar quality to the standard keys? Maybe I should just leave the originals on..
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: looserboy on Sat, 25 June 2011, 15:03:54
if you want a blue switches keyboard  - filco should it be.
i ve never felt better on a blue switch than on a filco.
if you want to buy a das or filco with browns the decision is more hard but in your case its rly simple.

blues felt best on a filco in my opinion. even on a mx3000 board from cherry itself blues felt like ****. but a filco blue is pure fun to type on.
i thought amazon.com has some blue switched filcos.

(now i have had the chance to test all filcos and das keyboards :-) and this experience was very nice )

but if you go now for a realforce you wont do any fault, but you ll miss the chance of typing on one of the best mx switch keyboards in my opinion.
filco blues feels really great. and i am far away to be a filco fanboy :-)
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 25 June 2011, 15:08:20
Quote from: Zhennlash;367861
I like the look of the lavender WASD's and the red ESC's, do you know if they're of similar quality to the standard keys? Maybe I should just leave the originals on..

I keep forgetting that there are at least a 'few' replacement caps for Topre.  :)   Have fun.
Title: Keyboard advice and information.
Post by: Zhennlash on Thu, 23 February 2012, 23:29:24
Here I am, almost a full year later - raising a thread from the dead. =D

I received my realforce 103UB back in July of last year - and it's been nothing but excellent every step of the way. I was able to remove the keys and add in the replacements, and I'm convinced the texture is the same as the originals. This thing is absolutely amazing, I must add. The sounds it makes, the way the keys feel when they bottom out, and the way they spring back up nearly as fast as my fingers do make this the best keyboard I've ever used - and the last keyboard I'll buy until it gives out and I'll have to buy another Topre.

Thanks one last time to everyone whom participates in this forum!