geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Reason on Fri, 24 June 2011, 02:34:53
-
So I bought the filco ninja with brown switch 2 weeks ago
and it felt amazing at first... but as I type more and more on it, I just can't get myself to like it
the main problem for me is that the keys feel too light and there is barely no resistance at all against my fingers... they just seem to push down too effortlessly...
I spam same keys a lot over and over again when playing games (starcraft 2)
and the lack of the resistance when pressing the key is really unsatisfying for me...
when one key is pressed repeatedly very fast, it just feels like im sliding a piece of plastic up and down.... it doesn't feel like i'm actually pressing something...
and bottoming out the keys feels a bit off too...
can anyone else recommend other type of switch for me?
-
Black switches. Highest resistance of all cherry switches, but unfortunately doesn't have that tactile bump of browns. The only way to have best of both worlds would be to get springs from black switches and transplant them into the browns but filcos are plate mounted so in order to replace springs you'll have to desolder every single switch.
So black switches is your best bet as far as resistance goes.
-
Cherry blues, while not much "heavier" in keystroke than browns have a more pronounced tactile bump so maybe that's what you're looking for? Keep in mind it'll be a bit louder than browns with the click and all.
Another option is an Alps keyboard, probably white. It feels heavier and has a pronounced click, though some people think Alps are an acquired taste. Also that thing will be loud, even louder than a cherry blue.
-
Black switches have the highest resistance by far but I don't know if that will solve the OP's problem. When I use my black, it's heavy feeling yeah, but I get more of a snappy "I pressed the button!" feeling using blues or white alps. The linear nature of blacks make it feel like your just pressing till forever, no real feedback. Kinda like pressing down on a super thick sponge.
-
hmm never considered alps before
where can i find one?
-
can anyone else recommend other type of switch for me?
Definitely Beige aka Ergo clears (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17357-U9BL-Beige-edition-(clear-switches-brown-springs)&highlight=beige+edition), don't waste your time and money in anything else.
-
I think you want normal Cherry Clears. They're higher activation force tactile, non-clicky switches with a slightly more pronounced tactile bump than Browns. Ergo Clears are Clear stems matched with the low-force springs from Blues / Browns, they probably aren't what you're looking for.
As an aside, I played SC2 on a Cherry G80-8000 with Clear switches for a long time and they felt great. On the other hand, my friend who's a Master top 10 only plays on Browns.
-
I think you want normal Cherry Clears. They're higher activation force tactile, non-clicky switches with a slightly more pronounced tactile bump than Browns.
This is exactly what I tough before trying. And I was wrong.
In the real world the stiffer spring from clears will mask the more pronounced tactile bump of clear stems.
So a clear switch will feel as a stiffer brown switch but still doesn't give a good tactile feedback.
The combination of white stem and the softer brown/blue/red spring gives a definite tactile feedback while the keys will not become uncomfortably stiff and fatiguing.
-
Does it need to be non clicky?
-
This is exactly what I tough before trying. And I was wrong.
In the real world the stiffer spring from clears will mask the more pronounced tactile bump of clear stems.
So a clear switch will feel as a stiffer brown switch but still doesn't give a good tactile feedback.
The combination of white stem and the softer brown/blue/red spring gives a definite tactile feedback while the keys will not become uncomfortably stiff and fatiguing.
Well, OP seems to have a problem with low activation force, not low tactility. If I could, I would go for high activation force + high tactility, ie a Cherry Green board.
-
Well, OP seems to have a problem with low activation force, not low tactility.
He will certainly clarify later, but I'm sure that the two things are easily confused, especially by the newcomers to the cherry world.
Most of users will expect browns as something like blue switches w/o the click and will end with something like a linear switch with some lube problem.
Keep also in mind that more tactility means also more force to past the tactile point using the same spring.
If I could, I would go for high activation force + high tactility, ie a Cherry Green board.
You should really try a cherry clear switch. It's counterintuitive but the more stiff is the coiled spring, the less tactility you feel.
If you go to greens or grays you will get more stiffness but less tactility, to have both improved a more pronounced bump on the stem should be needed, practically you need a switch which doesn't exist
-
ie a Cherry Green board.
Not so easy to find one brand new
The black is the best to test, then clears, i got both (clear seems to be europe only) and at the beginning i loved the black. But the more i use mechanical keyboards the more i love light switches like browns or red.
So test a black one, then try a clear one (only cherry but for50-60 euros in europe -80$ ?- plus shipping...
-
I've typed on my friend's who had a cherry clear before I even knew about mechanical keyboards... it's more like a rubber dome type of force required, but the key comes up much quicker, that's how i would explain it to you. And the click you get from it is definitely there as well. I can't imagine typing for straight hours on that thing though, I could bet that your fingers would get sore.
It was a Deck Legend cherry clear
-
for gaming brown is the way to go, or blues if u want click.. for cherry switches. Topre isn't bad either, for starcraft buckling is tooooo heavy. can't go quick on it. its doable but its a drag. There is no reason you would want it heavier in my opinion if you want fast apm.
-
Wait, if clicky is OK, and you want high activation force and high tactility...
Why are we looking at Cherry at all? This is the realm of Model M buckling spring...
-
I felt the same way as you.
I would advice you to try out cherry mx blacks
-
"Thermaltake Meka G1 is the best Cherry MX Black" : )
-
I would just avoid Cherry altogether, and look at buckling spring, topre, and alps clones.
-
I felt the same way as you.
I would advice you to try out cherry mx blacks
I think blacks are just the exact opposite of what the OP needs.
-
So try Buckling Spring, clear, ergo clear, and alps.
I'd get the model m from ebay or the classifieds, an alps from the classifieds (since this is to test/try different things, so probably a dell), then the clear from the super cheap great finds/ebay board. Then you'd have to find something to mod to get ergo clears if you wanna make that final step.
-
grow a beard
-
Ripster in the next couple years?
(http://hanslangseth.com/HansLangseth/sittinghans2.jpg)
-
F*** German Engineering.
Braun was owned by Gillette since 1967, then Gillette was bought by Procter & Gamble in 2005, so it's safe to consider it an american company.
-
Braun was owned by Gillette since 1967, then Gillette was bought by Procter & Gamble in 2005, so it's safe to consider it an american company.
That goes directly against what you JUST said here. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?19135-Why-are-filco-keyboards-so-expensive&p=367119&viewfull=1#post367119) I think I'm beginning to see the light.
-
That goes directly against what you JUST said here. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?19135-Why-are-filco-keyboards-so-expensive&p=367119&viewfull=1#post367119) I think I'm beginning to see the light.
Company acquisition aren't always done in the same way, sometimes company are left completely independent, sometimes are completely assimilated.
There's not a single way.
-
Hmm, I never knew that some Leica binoculars are made in Portugal. Oh, well, made in Germany or not, they are still too rich for my taste.
-
lol wow sorry guys
I started this thread last night and I fell asleep so I couldn't respond to your posts :S
I think you want normal Cherry Clears. They're higher activation force tactile, non-clicky switches with a slightly more pronounced tactile bump than Browns. Ergo Clears are Clear stems matched with the low-force springs from Blues / Browns, they probably aren't what you're looking for.
As an aside, I played SC2 on a Cherry G80-8000 with Clear switches for a long time and they felt great. On the other hand, my friend who's a Master top 10 only plays on Browns.
hmm so how do ergo clears and clears feel compared to eachother?? im not quite sure what different stems/springs feel like...
I'm currently rank 3 masters with 1700 points ... and I got there using the scissor switch keyboard on my laptop lol... I got tired of the laptop keyboard not responding quick enough and that's why I was looking for a mechanical keyboard...
Brown does make clicking / spamming effortless but it just doesn't feel satisfying for me...
Does it need to be non clicky?
it doesn't matter
Well, OP seems to have a problem with low activation force, not low tactility. If I could, I would go for high activation force + high tactility, ie a Cherry Green board.
hmm... i'm not quite sure what the difference is between the activation force and tactility...
I just want the keys to respond to my touch when I press on them unlike brown..
I really like the feel when I bottom out the browns but I usually have really light touch and when I press the buttons lightly, I just don't feel any response... and that really bugs me.. I mean I like it because the keys are recognized without jamming on the key but it also feels unsatisfying
for gaming brown is the way to go, or blues if u want click.. for cherry switches. Topre isn't bad either, for starcraft buckling is tooooo heavy. can't go quick on it. its doable but its a drag. There is no reason you would want it heavier in my opinion if you want fast apm.
Well, the keys are recognized properly without effort but I don't feel the response from the keyboard when I'm moving across the keyboard and rapidly pressing different keys very fast... and that throws me off and I don't really have fun typing on it.. lol
SO... so far the candidates are..
-Cherry Black
-Cherry Blue (I've used cherry blue before but I want to try it again to compare with brown)
-Cherry Clear
-Cherry Ergo Clear?
-Buckling Spring
-White Alps
...the problem is I'm currently a student and I really don't have the money to actually buy the keyboards to try all the different switches out...
What will be the best way to try out all these switches?
and what keyboards have switches such as clear , ergo clear, white alps? that I can find in US?
-
Damn!! After the backlit keyboards we have the backlit posts. :)
BTW for ergo clears just read the thread I linked before
-
Reason, where are you? No, that isn't a joke.
If you're near another geekhacker, they can probably let you try at least some of those.
I know Indiana, at least, has fairly decent geekhack coverage (near purdue, near IU, southern Indiana, near Indy). I'm pretty sure there's more than a few in California, as well.
-
You're not going to cheaply/easily find clear without buying a used POS off ebay. That can be cheap tho... ergo clear is a clear switch with the spring from a brown switch, requires KB surgery. I know nothing of alps...
As to the difference between activation and tactility. activation is the force from the spring, tactility is the bumpiness provided by the stem. black/red only have activation force. blue/brown/clear have differing activation force and differing tactility.
edit: thereferenc, knew that... meant to throw in cheap/easy
-
No, there are new clear boards. Deck, for instance, has two that I know of (frost and ice).
-
No even think about RED?
-
Hmm, spamming with buckling spring might be a little tricky. That said, Model Ms aren't too hard to find on the used market. 1391401 is the most popular of the first-generation part numbers. eBay can get you one, if nothing else. If you need Windows keys or native USB, about $79 will get you a brand new Unicomp.
-
Reason, where are you? No, that isn't a joke.
If you're near another geekhacker, they can probably let you try at least some of those.
I know Indiana, at least, has fairly decent geekhack coverage (near purdue, near IU, southern Indiana, near Indy). I'm pretty sure there's more than a few in California, as well.
I live in Utah and I doubt that there are many other geekhackers living here lol :Cry:
Recommending ergo clears for someone's first keyboard is like saying to a Starcraft noob to sign up for the professional circuit in Korea.
Regarding your last question click the Wiki tab above and look at the WW Shopping guide - it's sorted by switch.
hmm I just read The Solutor's post and I realized that ergo clear = CRAZY MODDING D:
I think I'm too noob to do that lol
-
I was in SLC with my Filco browns last month. :)
-
Even this senior member KL had to farm out his soldering.
Lolwut?
-
Oh, I think I still have some Cherry G80 white white post on eBay :P
Play SC on master level in U.S. I feel for gaming, Black or Red would be very good.
-
How are you with a soldering iron?
Even this senior member KL had to farm out his soldering.
My soldering skills are almost non-existent >_>
and the most modding I've done with anything is ... putting a computer together and apart and that's not even modding
-
Hmmm...I can't help much with Utah. I will have some Model Ms for sale in the near future, though. There are several on eBay for under $35, shipped, but I don't know if they come with cords or not, or what condition they actually are.
I usually don't look at the nicer ones, since I prefer to get them cheap and refurbish them myself.
-
Is there something like testing out different key switches?
My parents already think I'm crazy because I spent around $150 on a keyboard and
if I buy few more keyboards that cost around $100... I don't think they will much approve >_>
-
No even think about RED?
I just heard from someone that Red switches feel really realllly light.. even more than blue or brown
so I'm kind of hesitant to try it out.. and they cost a ton too
-
It takes quite some time but there is the good Sir's switch try board/bag/numpad who knows what else is being shipped around...
link 1 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?12313-First-iteration-switch-try-board-ready.)
home base (http://www.mrinterface.com/content/sinklist-stb-switch-try-board)
-
Recommending ergo clears for someone's first keyboard is like saying to a Starcraft noob to sign up for the professional circuit in Korea.
I think this quote can be nominated for the ripster's top stupid sentence of the year.
1# try one of them, and not just a single key as you did.
2# keep saying the opposite of what I'm saying just for the lulz, is usually completely unhelpful for any newcomer that are usually unaware of your bias.
3# ergo clears are surely the less traumatic jump from RD to Cherry, because the tactility is close enough.
-
Reds are really light. A lot of people that like them, like them specifically for that reason, as a matter of fact.
Buckling springs are not light. They are heavy. And awesome. Awesomely heavy. And awesome. I type on them all day long, 8-10 hours a day, nearly every day, and my hands don't get tired. The only time I'm not using them is when I'm using my HHKB, which is also awesome. But expensive. Awesomely expensive.
-
Trying to tell a noob to resolder and swap hammers/springs in his first mechanical keyboard is like telling Paris Hilton to do Geekhack's Vbulletin 5.0 theme.
Not all keyboard are Backlit and hard to mod like mine.
If he is not interested in backlight a cheap brown cherry or any other pcb mounted keyboard requires not more than an our of work and zero tools other than a screwdriver and a scissor.
And you are well aware of this.
-
You didn't click on my Law Of The Instrument link did you?
Looks like a recursive law, you use it in every occasion, no matter what argument is discussed.
Isn't it ?
As a clinical psychologist I see this Maslow phenomenon daily on Internet Forums.
With 37000 messages on a single forum, is statistically very easy to found your own posts. So I can understand what happen...
-
I'm sure The Keyboard Company appreciates your concern.
-
Well, OP seems to have a problem with low activation force, not low tactility. If I could, I would go for high activation force + high tactility, ie a Cherry Green board.
Excellent.
Wait, how many keyboards use the Green switch over the entire keyboard?
Funny how braindead Cherry fanboydom compels people to recommend non existent keyboards, or random mixtures of rare Cherry switches rather than just go for a buckling spring or an Alps.
-
Funny how braindead Cherry fanboydom compels people to recommend non existent keyboards, or random mixtures of rare Cherry switches rather than just go for a buckling spring or an Alps.
You switched in ripster mode ?
Have you ever touched an ergo clear ?
-
You switched in ripster mode ?
Have you ever touched an ergo clear ?
No, I was a bit too busy to gather the appropriate parts.
(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/rube-goldberg.jpg)
-
No, I was a bit too busy to gather the appropriate parts.
But not busy enough to avoid to call braindead someone who suggest something you never tried.
-
This coming from the "don't waste your time and money in anything else" guy. Ho-hum.
I also think you're slightly missing my point, slightly.
-
This coming from the "don't waste your time and money in anything else" guy. Ho-hum.
Don't waste money in anything else was intended as "don't buy a blue, and then sell it because it's noisy, don't buy a black just to find it is unpleasant, and so on"
BS are nice, I agree with you, but have a number of drawbacks that can't made them an item easy to suggest to a newcomer, the should be a complement to any keyboard "collection" but not as first board to buy. IMO
I also think you're slightly missing my point, slightly.
Throwing "bombs" in to the crowd is always a risky operation, a precision gun should be used in those cases.
BTW nice to hear i was not the target.
-
Sure, the buckling springs are not 100% ideal, but neither is combining two switch types, especially given the relative scarcity of Clear switches. Lot of work required for someone who may not be into modding.
-
given the relative scarcity of Clear switches.
They are really easy to find.
In the US they are easily available from mouser or from cherry pos boards off ebay, in Europe you can get a brand new cherry g80 for 44€ (or again look to ebay) and use it as donor or receiver board.
Lot of work required for someone who may not be into modding.
As I said before we are on geeckhack not on lazy****, even a newcomer that register itself here is supposed to like a bit of research, modding, experiments.
Personally I spent a lot for a couple of boards but now they are exactly what I wanted, ISO enter excluded (BTW an UK Qpad is on its way right now).
Cooking something you like it's a pleasure that no restaurant can give.
Then I repeat myself, swapping the stems on a PCB mount board is matter of 1h work, nothing to do with the 7+ hours spent on my xarmor.
If the receiver board is a basic plate mounted one, like a Filco, the time may rise to a couple of hours or more, depending on the soldering and desoldering tools used.
-
They had clears at digikey a few months ago.
Pick up 3 or 4 switches and plant them in a piece of clay to make a quick gaming cluster to get the feel.
$20 experiment is cheaper than buying a deck and getting stuck with it.
-
BS are nice, I agree with you, but have a number of drawbacks that can't made them an item easy to suggest to a newcomer, the should be a complement to any keyboard "collection" but not as first board to buy. IMO
Why though? Just about any keyboard has disadvantages associated with it. Why are the Model M's so bad?
-
Why are the Model M's so bad?
If someone tell me a generic "i don't like my car, what one you suggest ?", w/o adding anything else, i don't go to suggest a Smart or a Hummer, nor a Ferrari or a Trabant, I suggest a Golf or a Grande Punto, even if I consider the smart one of the more intelligent cars ever, even if I like a lot a Ferrari.
For keyboards is the same BS are extreme, bulky, not so nice looking, with interface problems if old IBM ones (and if connected to a ripster's PC), stiff and loud.
You can love them, but you can hate them, they can be also felt as a too long jump from RD or scissors.
Browns are the exact opposite, not too loud, not too stiff, not too tactile, not too linear, not too bad, not too good. The average joe's keyboard.
Ergo clears have a bit more pepper and salt, are tasty w/o being noisy or affected by great hysteresis, a Golf GTI to continue with cars analogies...
-
Looks are entirely subjective, and largely meaningless anyway. Interface - just get a USB Unicomp, or a PS/2 adapter. Some people may want the stiffness, as the OP implied. Many people around here have had buckling springs as their first mech keyboards, myself included.
-
Many people around here have had buckling springs as their first mech keyboards, myself included.
But likely they tried it before and they found them good, hardly someone will wake up some morning and go to buy blindly a BS board.
-
Fukka Alps Filco Zero!!!
-
None of you are actual gamers. What he wants is a keyboard thats great for gaming not for typing
I get it that most of you guys hate blacks for typing and would never recommmend it but why can't you look past your personal preference and see its exactly what he needs and want?
Bucklings springs keyboards will only give him 2nrko so thats not what he wants
Blues only requires slighty more force and is horrible for double tapping so how can you even think about that?
Clears is not good great for double tapping either.
Reds are horrible light, feels even lighter than browns
Ergo clears for first mechanical... really?
Topres? His parents already things he is crazy for spending 150$
Blacks is the perfect gaming switch, high force, great for double tapping, spamming keys and easy to find for less than 150$ with full NRKO
-
HaiiYaa, I don't know about that, I get the impression a lot of folks here are gamers.
But given that the OP states:
when one key is pressed repeatedly very fast, it just feels like im sliding a piece of plastic up and down.... it doesn't feel like i'm actually pressing something...
I read that as "the lack of apparent tactility in brown is unsatisfying, as I don't feel like I'm actuating the key". It's even repeated in a later post. Of course, we may have different opinions on that, and unless the OP clarifies, either is valid.
In other words, linear is likely a poor choice. Given that most laptop keyboards are 2KRO, I also don't think that's much of an issue, either.
-
actually im a sc2 player as well and i dont like blacks for it. imo playing SC2 is more similar to typing rather than FPS games. i think the OP would be best suited with clears or ergo clears. i liked the tactileness of blues but cant stand the clickiness myself.
-
.
-
ahhhhhhhhhhh so many differing opinions T_T
I don't know what to choose...
and I don't think the try out board is gonna reach me soon lol
-
actually im a sc2 player as well and i dont like blacks for it. imo playing SC2 is more similar to typing rather than FPS games. i think the OP would be best suited with clears or ergo clears. i liked the tactileness of blues but cant stand the clickiness myself.
i love the clicks of the blue when i play, so much so that i make sure either the volume of my music is turned down, or one of the sides of the headphones isn't covering my ear
-
ahhhhhhhhhhh so many differing opinions T_T
I don't know what to choose...
and I don't think the try out board is gonna reach me soon lol
Do you want easy to press switches that you can feel and hear when you press the key? Get cherry mx blue
Do you want harder to press switches that you can't feel or hear when you press, but is great for spamming the same key? get cherry mx black
Do you want harder to press switches that you can feel when you press? Get cherry mx white
the others are not an option because you dont want to be limited to only pressing 2keys at once in sc2
-
Do you want easy to press switches that you can feel and hear when you press the key? Get cherry mx blue
Do you want harder to press switches that you can't feel or hear when you press, but is great for spamming the same key? get cherry mx black
Do you want harder to press switches that you can feel when you press? Get cherry mx white
the others are not an option because you dont want to be limited to only pressing 2keys at once in sc2
what do you mean by limiting to two keys at once, Nkro or not doesnt have anything to do with what the switch types are.
-
what do you mean by limiting to two keys at once, Nkro or not doesnt have anything to do with what the switch types are.
I never heard about buckling springs, apls or topre with more than 2nrko
reds are too light
-
Topres are 6KRO over USB.
If the lazy ass Topre engineers did more than dye keycaps they could match the Leopold and get 18KRO over USB easy.
ok then topres do 6KRO but I doubt his parents would let him get a 300$ keyboard when they think he is crazy for paying 150$ for one
-
I agree with that. Just like The Solutor keeps recommending every noob put in modified Cherry Clears the people who recommend $300 keyboards to a guy with a $150 budget crack me up.
How come you're not recommending he get a Razer?
(Attachment) 19676[/ATTACH]
I just wouldn't sleep well at night recommending him a Razer.
Did you know I'm from the country of lego?
-
Danish?
You listen to Tommy Seebach a lot?
[video=youtube;X2_m4LYAcdI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2_m4LYAcdI&feature=player_embedded#![/video]
ofcourse and we live in lego houses
-
ok then topres do 6KRO but I doubt his parents would let him get a 300$ keyboard when they think he is crazy for paying 150$ for one
Topres are port limited, they use a nestled hierarchy for full-NKRO it's just some specialty versions which use PS/2 like the Gtune, though I'm not sure if it can utilize a PS/2-to-USB adapter.
As for the browns I'm on the same side of "never really been happy". I'll admit they feel a hell of a lot better than some of the keyboards I've had to use but they just aren't all that great. I hate to sound like I don't like mechanical keyboards but I've certainly haven't been too happy with them. Key reliability and feel is top notch; they are as good as the day they were broken in. But I just never really feel much almost a straining myself not to bottom out as if I strain myself just to apply enough force for a tactile element I barely feel. Strangely enough I feel slightly more tactility if the switch were upside down that way the tactile point is towards the finger pad i.e. cherry branding name facing the person. And yet other times they feel really tactility and notable to a degree though not a "whoa" in a way like a two-face one time yes, other time no.
The browns are also obnoxious at times when it comes to use. Sometimes they feel so linear with no tactility and yet other times it's almost as if the resistance increases significantly in a negative way. And other times I sort of have to make myself an excuse as to thinking there is tactility hence what I said above about "straining to type". Gaming wise for FPS they are terrible compared to linear or hell even membrane/rubber domes the tactility while feeling like it's not there really messes up your movements make them very sloppy especially for small corrections there's just something annoying about the tactility and it's effect at least for me.
I hate to say this but my old G11 had more tactility. I know the G11 and subsequent Logi-Gboards are gimmicky and use the same "membrane tops" as a 1 dollar keyboard. But for some reason I feel it a hell of a lot more. Maybe it's me but except for a super cheapo keyboard I never really had the negative reactions for keyboard occasionally with some of the more heavily used keyboards people use. It's sort of like other products people use they have all kinds of problems and issues and other **** and yet I've barely if ever suffered them.
Again I'm not hating on mechanical keyboards or anything for that matter. It's sure as hell worth the price compared to what is spoon fed to people. But I think I either may not like the browns or I may not like specifically the cherry mx switch system. I've never tried anything but blues, black, and brown never used some of the other like clear, red etc.etc. But even with the blues despite how in the flow I would get with them I barely felt the tactility. I even have posts of me mentioning how I felt the G11 tactility to be stronger than the mx blue.
I think one of the things that needs to be talked about is the difference between artificial vs elastic systems. Maybe a topre would be my answer being a rubber based keyboard or keytronic or mx red or whatever not to jack this thread. Though to be honest with the costs to all the different components it gets pretty expensive so I don't really go out of my way to try. Strangely enough I don't really mind bottoming out with the membrane domes at least for me it feels like a chore trying to stop exactly at the 2.0mm mark.
In a way mechanical keyboards maybe to me specifically is sorta like a mouse or monitor. After a while you change your sensitivity, change grip(claw, fingertip, palm), or different mousepad, mouse, or better monitor etc.etc. and you keep trying to find all the intricacies and nuisances and whatnot and try to I wouldn't say find the perfect device but find something along the lines of "Alright this is feels right, this is a winner". But instead you keep picking up all the negatives and never stay happy with what you have.
-
Bucklings springs keyboards will only give him 2nrko so thats not what he wants
Except gaming worked for years on 2KRO - not to mention, he has 2KRO right now, and it works fine. But, if NKRO were necessary, there's always modding a 122 F to USB - full NKRO, no soldering needed (but a clean install will be soldered in). But, given that the budget is likely strongly biased towards going under the budget, rather than right up to it, a normal 101-key Model M or a Unicomp is a better bet.
Blacks is the perfect gaming switch, high force, great for double tapping, spamming keys and easy to find for less than 150$ with full NRKO
But no tactility, and that appears to be one of his two complaints about browns.
-
Except gaming worked for years on 2KRO - not to mention, he has 2KRO right now, and it works fine. But, if NKRO were necessary, there's always modding a 122 F to USB - full NKRO, no soldering needed (but a clean install will be soldered in). But, given that the budget is likely strongly biased towards going under the budget, rather than right up to it, a normal 101-key Model M or a Unicomp is a better bet.
2KRNO is definately not enough for sc2 or many other games
But no tactility, and that appears to be one of his two complaints about browns.
How can you be sure of that? To be it just seems like he complain that the keys on browns are so light that he cant actually feel when he press it down
-
Take a look at this, though:
I just want the keys to respond to my touch when I press on them unlike brown..
I really like the feel when I bottom out the browns but I usually have really light touch and when I press the buttons lightly, I just don't feel any response... and that really bugs me.. I mean I like it because the keys are recognized without jamming on the key but it also feels unsatisfying
That reads like he wants more tactility.
-
I agree with that. Just like The Solutor keeps recommending every noob put in modified Cherry Clears
You had the keyboard knowledge integrated in your firmware or you learned something later ?
Everyone is a noob before starting to do something, including me and you.
I got my Xarmor just a three months ago, I used it with browns for a couple of hours, then I modded it even if I haven't opened a cherry switch in my whole life.
Where's the problem ?
Well... I know perfectly where's the problem: you consider this place something yours, and you consider any other expert user a danger for your position.
So I have to inform you that no one here want to steal something, no one want to attack your "nation", including me.
But forget that I keep my mout closed just to please you, I'll keep to give reasonable suggestion and/or solution as I did in the last 15 years of internet, as I did in my whole life.
It's just a forum, people are here to compare their opinions with other people, and not to blindly accept your opinion.
Accept it and your life will get better.
How come you're not recommending he get a Razer?
Wow what a difficult question !!!
Maybe because I was dumb enough to get one and i found it crap (and broken)?
-
But likely they tried it before and they found them good, hardly someone will wake up some morning and go to buy blindly a BS board.
Again, why not?
Sounds like you're forcing your own subjective views about keyboards onto other people instead of providing people with some sensible practical options to choose from.
2KRNO is definately not enough for sc2 or many other games
Given that I play SC2 on a Model M, I'm going to have to disagree.
Given that the pros in Korea play on cheap rubber dome keyboards, I'm going to have to double disagree.
Topres are port limited, they use a nestled hierarchy for full-NKRO
I'm pretty sure it's just because they are capacitive. Capacitive and Hall Effect switches tend to be inherently NKRO because you don't have issues with uncontrolled current flow.
Also sounds like you need to broaden your horizons switch wise :p
-
Again, why not?
Deja Vu, something in the matrix is changed
I haven't already replied to the same question just few hours ago ?
-
Yes, it was something to the effect of "I think they look ugly and some people might find them too stiff"
I was looking for decent reasons to bad mouth Unicomp's keyboards.
-
I was looking for decent reasons to bad mouth Unicomp's keyboards.
Firstly where you saw "a bad mouth" ?
Secondly I have already replied, i suggest to buy one of them only after a real test.
BS aren't average boards, are boards with a strong taste, you can love it, you can hate it.
-
Considering the amount of people around here who use buckling spring keyboards, and how popular they are on the switch polls, I'm thinking that they are a pretty likeable switch.
Now, look at Browns. I hate browns much for the same reasons that the OP does. If I were you, I'd probably start going around saying that the browns are a switch with "strong taste" and that they aren't really a mainstream switch. I might make some completely superfluous and meaningless comment about the boards that use them looking ugly. Thankfully I have more perspective than that and I appreciate that many people consider them to be excellent switches.
I suggest you do something similar.
-
Actually, back in the day, BS keyboards WERE average boards. If you bought an IBM PC up through the PS/2 era, you pretty much automatically got a BS board.
-
I'm thinking that they are a pretty likeable switch.
Me too, so where's the problem ?
Considering the amount of people around here who use buckling spring keyboards, and how popular they are on the switch polls,
Around = keyboard experts ? If so we are talking about giving suggestions to a not expert?
Now, look at Browns. I hate browns much for the same reasons that the OP does.
So we are three
If I were you, I'd probably start going around saying that the browns are a switch with "strong taste" and that they aren't really a mainstream switch.
I don't know if my English is so bad or if you refuse to understand what I'm saying.
Brown switch is the EXACT OPPOSITE of a switch with strong taste.
I might make some completely superfluous and meaningless comment about the boards that use them looking ugly.
Can I post my opinion about the look of something ?
Like it or not look is a feature, maybe not the main one, but still is a parameter evaluated when something is bought.
BTW I never said that BS are ugly. Decks are ugly, BS are just not so nice.
Thankfully I have more perspective than that and I appreciate that many people consider them to be excellent switches.
I think you should use such wide perspective to understand what's the point and what other people are saying. Because I don't like to reply to something I never said.
-
Me too, so where's the problem ?
Well, apparently they are not mainstream enough to be recommended to people or something, or something. I'm not really too sure what you're trying to say any more.
I don't know if my English is so bad or if you refuse to understand what I'm saying.
Brown switch is the EXACT OPPOSITE of a switch with strong taste.
But why? By whose metric? All I've seen so far is a lot of subjective opinions to back up an assertion that buckling springs are somehow not a mainstream keyboard. These aren't really useful to people who are looking for switches to try out.
Besides, even if we roll with your bizarre "strong taste" argument, as you said earlier -
As I said before we are on geeckhack not on lazy****, even a newcomer that register itself here is supposed to like a bit of research, modding, experiments.
So, apparently people are meant to be brave about ripping keyboards apart, but not buying a buckling spring keyboard. Ho-hum.
Can I post my opinion about the look of something ?
Like it or not look is a feature, maybe not the main one, but still is a parameter evaluated when something is bought.
BTW I never said that BS are ugly. Decks are ugly, BS are just not so nice.
For keyboards is the same BS are extreme, bulky, not so nice looking,
-
Well, apparently they are not mainstream enough to be recommended to people
Indeed, they aren't.
But why? By whose metric?
What metric you want ? Brown switches are meant exactly to be average from any point of view, and this (unlike the look) is not an opinion, this is a fact. They are the standard hamburger sold by cherry's fast food.
Besides, even if we roll with your bizarre "strong taste" argument, as you said earlier
So let me switch a second in ripster mode.
Italian logic.
If there is something where we are light years ahead other people is in design and food matters, so I use those analogies.
We can argue a whole day if caviar is a superb food of is a disgusting one, the point is that is not average and BS keyboars are exactly like that, strong taste.
So, apparently people are meant to be brave about ripping keyboards apart, but not buying a buckling spring keyboard. Ho-hum.
Well, yes
I think that when one is doing something with his own hands the end result is immensely more satisfying than, blindly using the wallet.
Cooking v.s. using frozen dishes.
-
I think we're hitting a language barrier with the "strong taste" thing, maybe?
Does "strong taste" mean "stiff key feel"? Or does it mean that it's an acquired taste - something that many people won't like, but if you get used to it, you love it?
I'm getting the impression that The Solutor is using the former definition, and ch_123 is using the latter.
-
I think we're hitting a language barrier with the "strong taste" thing, maybe?
Strong taste for me, means just strong taste, definite, firm... call it whatever.
Maybe you use it as a synonym of bad taste in that case is clear why ch 123 doesn't understand my point (btw I'm sure it is not devastated by a single wrong word)
-
We don't use it as a synonym of bad taste, but rather... a taste that isn't normal, and some may consider bad, but some consider good.
I'll note that Cherry themselves don't consider browns to be normal - they consider them to be an ergonomic switch, and IIRC designed them for an ergonomic keyboard. They have the clear for a soft-tactile normal switch. (Granted, browns are now more common than clears, but...)
-
We don't use it as a synonym of bad taste, but rather... a taste that isn't normal, and some may consider bad, but some consider good.
Ok, thanks.
So I used it correctly.
I'll note that Cherry themselves don't consider browns to be normal - they consider them to be an ergonomic switch, and IIRC designed them for an ergonomic keyboard. They have the clear for a soft-tactile normal switch. (Granted, browns are now more common than clears, but...)
Tastes are evolving while nomenclature doesen't.
Cherry switches are on the market since the time when buckling springs were commonly used and sold keyboards, and other producers are used to mimic whatever IBM was doing.
Now the average keyboards are softer than in the past and in the eastern countries the brown switch has completely superceded the clear ones (that are completely discontinued there).
So the concept of average switch is moved but the brown switches still have their old name.
-
Indeed, they aren't.
But why?
Again, this is from the guy who thinks we should all rip apart Cherry keyboards and mix them together.
What metric you want ? Brown switches are meant exactly to be average from any point of view, and this (unlike the look) is not an opinion, this is a fact. They are the standard hamburger sold by cherry's fast food.
When you say "any", you mean to say "my".
Language barrier, as you say.
Well, yes
I think that when one is doing something with his own hands the end result is immensely more satisfying than, blindly using the wallet.
Cooking v.s. using frozen dishes.
Ok. So, if the OP were to buy a terminal IBM keyboard and mod it to be PC compatible, would that make it mainstream enough for you?
Tastes are evolving while nomenclature doesen't.
Cherry switches are on the market since the time when buckling springs were commonly used and sold keyboards, and other producers are used to mimic whatever IBM was doing.
Now the average keyboards are softer than in the past and in the eastern countries the brown switch has completely superceded the clear ones (that are completely discontinued there).
So the concept of average switch is moved but the brown switches still have their old name.
So, we should not recommend buckling springs because people in China use brown switches? In other words, we should go by what other people buy whatever other people people buy. In other words we should all just use rubber dome keyboards, right? We certainly shouldn't be making magic mixes of random Cherry switches, because those sure as hell aren't "average"
-
So Reason, are you more or less confused on what switch to get now?
-
I never heard about buckling springs, apls or topre with more than 2nrko
reds are too light
I just ran Aqua's test on my model M using PS/2 and I was able to press many combinations of 6 keys down at the same time without any errors. Pressing 7 keys down at the same time always caused jamming. However when I started pressing down Shift, the keyboard could only handle 4 keys down at the same time, the fifth key always jammed. When I held down both Shift Keys at the same time, the keys t y [ ] \ z x c v m , . / would not work at all.
-
But why?
Just read two pages back, I don't think that repeating something you don't wont to listen could be useful for anyone.
Again, this is from the guy who thinks we should all rip apart Cherry keyboards and mix them together
You can do whatever you want with your keyboards and with your likings and you cold still arguing about something you never tried, is not a problem for me.
But keeping scaring the newcomers just because something you don't like is not helpful for them. At all.
When you say "any", you mean to say "my".
You should sue the real life, like in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, whenever it differs from your likings, and this is the case.
Language barrier, as you say.
There's no language barrier here, and I never said it. Was a more than reasonable hypothesis by bhtooefr, he was too optimist.
Ok. So, if the OP were to buy a terminal IBM keyboard and mod it to be PC compatible, would that make it mainstream enough for you?
So you started mixing my opinions in a random way to impose your point of view ?
What has to do the pleasure of doing something for yourself (which is still a pleasure no matter what keyboard is taken in account) with the average likings of the keyboard users ?
So, we should not recommend buckling springs because people in China use brown switches?
You must be the guy that blend anything with his blender, he does it with iphones, you do it with my posts.
I suggest to mix the single letters instead of pieces of sentences, you will get more flexibility.
In other words we should all just use rubber dome keyboards, right?
This was already happened long time ago. Likely mech boards are the 0.1% of the whole market and BS are likely the the 10% or less of this nice.
If you don't like it there's always the option of suing the real world.
We certainly shouldn't be making magic mixes of random Cherry switches, because those sure as hell aren't "average"
As usual you start with reasonable sentences, and end with incredibly silly ones when you can't impose your POV.
-
Try ASX. Should block. Unicomps are a bit different.
NKRO wiki has all the details. I posted one where you can get 8 keys to register.
Yeah ASX jams it too. That Wiki is a good read, I hadn't gotten that far into it when I posted before.
-
At least that proves you're actually #1 at something.
-
So I bought the filco ninja with brown switch 2 weeks ago
and it felt amazing at first... but as I type more and more on it, I just can't get myself to like it
the main problem for me is that the keys feel too light and there is barely no resistance at all against my fingers... they just seem to push down too effortlessly...
I spam same keys a lot over and over again when playing games (starcraft 2)
and the lack of the resistance when pressing the key is really unsatisfying for me...
when one key is pressed repeatedly very fast, it just feels like im sliding a piece of plastic up and down.... it doesn't feel like i'm actually pressing something...
and bottoming out the keys feels a bit off too...
can anyone else recommend other type of switch for me?
in your case you should use black switches or my switches. or clear (heavy) switches
because with your hard pressing you dont realise the bump or it is getting on your nervers while playing at all
as far as i have read your posting.
get a black switch keyboard or a my-switch keyboard that would make you rly happy^^ i tried a lot of switches and black switches are well for gaming and typing..
they feel like browns without this little tiny bump that harasses you.
first of all you re buying a keyboard not for prestige you buy a keyboard for your rly needs! and black switches with doubleshots would make you rly happy^^
-
or you're an arrogant imbecile.
Typical of pointless fetishist sheep. When you can't "assimilate" other people, when you can't keep up with their toughs, start insulting them, maybe they reply with the same tone and will be banned.
Isn't it ?
-
Typical of pointless fetishist sheep. When you can't "assimilate" other people, when you can't keep up with their toughs, start insulting them, maybe they reply with the same tone and will be banned.
Isn't it ?
Wait, I think I missed something. Are you trolling your self now? lol
-
(http://forums.d2jsp.org/html/emoticons/dancinglock.gif)
-
Wait, I think I missed something
Yes clearly you did.
In 15 years, and likely 55000 messages in the forums of half world I never insulted anyone, "for free"
-
Typical of pointless fetishist sheep. When you can't "assimilate" other people, when you can't keep up with their toughs, start insulting them, maybe they reply with the same tone and will be banned.
Isn't it ?
Well, you're the one saying that buckling springs shouldn't be conisdered by newbies for some arbitrary reasons. Then you accuse me of having some sort of sheep fetish just because I want people to open their minds. You need more love in your life, man.
I like how you ignored all my other excellent points, is this a concession of defeat?
-
You need more love in your life, man.
Yes I need people respectful for the other's ideas.
Then you accuse me of having some sort of sheep fetish just because I want people to open their minds.
Oh yes, people should open their minds and should accept your weird ideas.
Topres are reasonably priced, and hard to assemble, bucking springs are the ideal keyboard for newbies and are also nice looking, brown switches are extreme switches, and so on...
Yes we should all open our minds... :pound: :pound:
I like how you ignored all my other excellent points
Ahahahahaha.
is this a concession of defeat?
Ahhahhahaha.
-
Yes clearly you did.
In 15 years, and likely 55000 messages in the forums of half world I never insulted anyone, "for free"
No, You just use a lot of red herrings.
-
No, You just use a lot of red herrings.
So my poor English suddenly become so good ?
I just think that, as always happen, when someone notice (and report) that the king is naked, every one in the court becomes nervous.
Typical.
-
The real question here is, why am I waiting for a ducky 1087 or a leopold or filco tenkeyless blue, when the PLU M-87 is already available?
-
Maybe you want better than 2KRO ? I keep hearing that the NKRO claim is BS.
-
Depends whether or not you require nkro. Do you play FPS games?
-
But from what I understand nkro is all a bunch of hype and bs, the modifiers don't count and I've never pressed more than two normal keys at once time in the last 13 years of gaming... build quality and key feel is quite important to me though, as well as durability.
-
Well nkro isn't necessary, but 6-kro does make a noticeable difference in FPS.
-
Well nkro isn't necessary, but 6-kro does make a noticeable difference in FPS.
I play a lot of FPS though and I'm wondering what combinations would be an issue? I'm on a rubber dome right now that retails for USD 2.50 and I have no issues...
-
Well personally, I noticed a difference. But I'm not going to sell it to you.
-
Here's Ripster's list (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17077-PRICE-UPDATE-Group-Buy-for-PLU-ML-87.-65-75-ea.&p=367850&viewfull=1#post367850)
-
From what I understand it's not some sort of performance difference, it's the board locking out when multiple keys are pressed. What difference are you referring to?
-
Let's say you're circle strafing and then you try to duck/jump. One of the keys will probably lock up without 6-kro.
-
Topres are reasonably priced, and hard to assemble, bucking springs are the ideal keyboard for newbies and are also nice looking, brown switches are extreme switches, and so on...
Please show where I made any of these claims.
I like how you laughed in agreeance of my other points. That's a good start.
-
Just re read this topic, the one called the audiophile effect, the one called we need a 5$ topres or something similar and you will find all your pearls...
-
I've said that Topres are good keyboards when considering the keyboard aspect alone. I've said on many occasions that Topres are quite expensive for what you get. I'm sure I've even questioned if they are worth the money. If you want to show an example of me saying that Topres are reasonably priced, please feel free to show some evidence. Burden of proof lies on the accuser where I grew up.
While doing so, please show examples of where I claimed the other things. Again, burden of proof is on you.
-
Sheesh. This turned into quite the war.
1. The op most definitely meant that he didn't feel like it was responding unless he bottomed out. He definitely wants more tactility. Blacks are a terrible plan. @OP I even bottom out when I use clears, so i don't particularly try not to. No reason you should try not to either.
2. There is no reason why BS wouldn't be a good first board. Especially since it would actually be a second board since he hates browns for the same reasons that I will never try them. They were my second board, the second (that i remember) to try, and the first that I bought on purpose.
If looks are that huge a factor, that can always be rectified later with rit dye, etc. The weight is not a negative, that generally signifies quality. In keyboards and PSU's, and plenty of other things.
3. Relatedly, NKRO as a factor is completely stupid. It can be nice to have, but is in no way needed for games. I used the same $4 rubber dome for 4-5 years (never shinied, only just now starting to lose part of a very small number of letterings) and I'm sure it was 2kro. Never noticed the difference. One reason is that I always use 5 button mice, and put jump and crouch on buttons 4 and 5. There is literally no possible conflict, and can be much more comfortable depending on the game.
A second reason is, out of all wow subscribers, how many do you think actually know anything about computers? About keyboards? I would wager that a large majority are using terrible rubber domes and not noticing anything. That's one of the biggest use-every-key-on-the-board games i've ever seen.
Another reason is that I went through the entirety of fear 2 just now on a model m and did not make those button assignments (because the game didn't let me directly in settings, first one in a while I've seen do that. Too lazy to use outside proggies to do it like I used to have to do.) Had jump on spacebar, bullet time on left control, look down the sights on left shift, crouch on caps lock. Zero issues during the entire campaign (circle strafing and such included).
4. Yes unfortunately there are lots of types of board out there. That's why when I started, the most I ever spent on one was $30. I only just now have a cherry blue board, and I haven't really plugged it in for long yet. Sell your browns and buy a bunch of other stuff. For alps, a dell or a focus would be about that. Same for a model m. From ebay or the classifieds.
I can see why cherry blues would be bad for double clicking because of the jumping bean action. There are space invader switches that feel and sound nearly identical, but the click (and tactility) is from a white "click arm" that moves in a track. So it should be good for that too. These run $30-50. Also from ebay or the classifieds. I like them alot.
Then for clears, like I said, go to the great finds section and fine the one talking about $20 clear board on ebay or something like that. Can probably offer $10 for one. These things have extra keys that can be macroable, and have NKRO.
Can probably get all that stuff for what you sell your browns for.
-
Sheesh. This turned into quite the war.
1. The op most definitely meant that he didn't feel like it was responding unless he bottomed out. He definitely wants more tactility. Blacks are a terrible plan. @OP I even bottom out when I use clears, so i don't particularly try not to. No reason you should try not to either.
2. There is no reason why BS wouldn't be a good first board. Especially since it would actually be a second board since he hates browns for the same reasons that I will never try them. They were my second board, the second (that i remember) to try, and the first that I bought on purpose.
If looks are that huge a factor, that can always be rectified later with rit dye, etc. The weight is not a negative, that generally signifies quality. In keyboards and PSU's, and plenty of other things.
3. Relatedly, NKRO as a factor is completely stupid. It can be nice to have, but is in no way needed for games. I used the same $4 rubber dome for 4-5 years (never shinied, only just now starting to lose part of a very small number of letterings) and I'm sure it was 2kro. Never noticed the difference. One reason is that I always use 5 button mice, and put jump and crouch on buttons 4 and 5. There is literally no possible conflict, and can be much more comfortable depending on the game.
A second reason is, out of all wow subscribers, how many do you think actually know anything about computers? About keyboards? I would wager that a large majority are using terrible rubber domes and not noticing anything. That's one of the biggest use-every-key-on-the-board games i've ever seen.
Another reason is that I went through the entirety of fear 2 just now on a model m and did not make those button assignments (because the game didn't let me directly in settings, first one in a while I've seen do that. Too lazy to use outside proggies to do it like I used to have to do.) Had jump on spacebar, bullet time on left control, look down the sights on left shift, crouch on caps lock. Zero issues during the entire campaign (circle strafing and such included).
4. Yes unfortunately there are lots of types of board out there. That's why when I started, the most I ever spent on one was $30. I only just now have a cherry blue board, and I haven't really plugged it in for long yet. Sell your browns and buy a bunch of other stuff. For alps, a dell or a focus would be about that. Same for a model m. From ebay or the classifieds.
I can see why cherry blues would be bad for double clicking because of the jumping bean action. There are space invader switches that feel and sound nearly identical, but the click (and tactility) is from a white "click arm" that moves in a track. So it should be good for that too. These run $30-50. Also from ebay or the classifieds. I like them alot.
Then for clears, like I said, go to the great finds section and fine the one talking about $20 clear board on ebay or something like that. Can probably offer $10 for one. These things have extra keys that can be macroable, and have NKRO.
Can probably get all that stuff for what you sell your browns for.
1. He said the MAIN problem is that the keys are too light and theres barely no resistance, then he went on to say that he spam the same key alot
thats why cherry mx blacks would be his best choice
2. If he can find a BS board with more than 2KRO then sure it would be fine
3. Hilarious you are using WoW to show that you don't need more than 2KRO. Its probally the least demanding game out there and nothing like a serious esports game like starcraft 2
You absolutely need to be able to press more than 2keys at once in many many games including starcraft 2
-
... hmm I don't know how this thread got out of hand so quickly... stop fighting guys :(
anyways, I've offered a price on that $20 Cherry Clear board on ebay (thx for that False Dimitry) but I'm not sure if he will accept my offer or not...
and where can I find that space invader switch keyboard???
I want to try the cherry mx blacks too just in case - does anyone know where I can get a cherry black board for under $50?
I think I found some White and Black Alps boards for around $20 on Ebay so I think I'll try them out too lol...
I can't seem to find a BS board around $20... they all seem to go up to $50 with shipping... are they worth the try?
3. Hilarious you are using WoW to show that you don't need more than 2KRO. Its probally the least demanding game out there and nothing like a serious esports game like starcraft 2
You absolutely need to be able to press more than 2keys at once in many many games including starcraft 2
Hmm.. I played until I got to rank 3 masters in sc2 with my laptop keyboard which is 2kro (some ppl mentioned) and I don't think nkro is really needed in starcraft... because you don't really mash keys together, you press keys separately very fast... hmm I guess they are kind of same thing but I didn't really have problem with my 2kro keyboard so far... or I just didn't notice while I was playing...
-
Oh and if you guys can offer me cheap boards with cherry blue / black / clear / White ALPS / BS
I'm mainly looking to spend around $20 ~ $60 for each boards...
Pm me please :)
-
I think I found some White and Black Alps boards for around $20 on Ebay so I think I'll try them out too lol...
I'd give the Blacks a miss if you're also getting the Whites, the Blacks are very much inferior.
I can't seem to find a BS board around $20... they all seem to go up to $50 with shipping... are they worth the try?
Very much so, great keyboards and they sound like what you might need from your description.
This seller usually has good ones. (http://shop.ebay.com/rarekeyboardstore/m.html?_nkw=IBM+Model&_sacat=0&_odkw=&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3911.c0.m270.l1313) Not sure what the shipping will be like though.
-
I'd give the Blacks a miss if you're also getting the Whites, the Blacks are very much inferior.
Very much so, great keyboards and they sound like what you might need from your description.
This seller usually has good ones. (http://shop.ebay.com/rarekeyboardstore/m.html?_nkw=IBM+Model&_sacat=0&_odkw=&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3911.c0.m270.l1313) Not sure what the shipping will be like though.
How are blacks inferior? They are the longest lasting switch and best for gaming
-
Black Alps
Black Cherries are pretty decent IMHO.
-
Black Alps
Black Cherries are pretty decent IMHO.
hmm i thought white alps was better than black alps... >_>
and what are black cherries? are they diff from cherry mx blacks?
-
and what are black cherries? are they diff from cherry mx blacks?
They are the same.
They are linear and stiff, IMO exactly the switch you don't want, after reading your first post.
-
They are the same.
They are linear and stiff, IMO exactly the switch you don't want, after reading your first post.
alright, I guess I'll try black only if I can find a really good deal.. or I think I might be able to find some of my friends that has steelseries 7g or 6gv2
-
Oh and what is the diff between black and white alps??
-
I'm not an expert of alps switches, btw you can find anything about them in the wiki section.
-
hmm i thought white alps was better than black alps... >_>
and what are black cherries? are they diff from cherry mx blacks?
White Alps are good, not sure where I said otherwise. White Alps are clicky and Black Alps are non clicky. White Alps are also much more tactile than the Blacks.
-
I have the same issue as you, browns are way too light, and blacks are perfect but dont have tactile feedback.
I think i will return by brown switch board and get a blue.