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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: SuperSerb on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:26:08

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: SuperSerb on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:26:08

I already made a thread about my IBM Model M keyboard, but recently I bought a cheap logitech rubber dome keyboard (10 euros). Now I type faster, the room is silent and I make less typos. I type at about 75 WPM btw.

So remind me again, why are mechanical keyboards all that great?

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: DaemonRaccoon on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:28:00

Cost increases with complexity. That is all.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: daerid on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:29:24

seriously? where are these people coming from?

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Input Nirvana on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:29:49

Mechanical keyboards aren't great or bad. It's what different people think is great or bad for them. Most people here believe mechanicals work the best for them, that's why this forum exists. Personal preference, not a scam.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:30:18

I agree with the OP.

(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110419100726/callofduty/images/8/80/Troll-face-problem.jpg)

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: redpill on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:31:24

Here we go again...

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: noodles256 on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:31:29

whats a mech keyboard?

they like gundams?

I want heavyarms

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: SecrtAgentMan on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:32:51

Okay?

My WPM barely increased from rubber dome to mechanical, it went up obviously.

I don't care about WPM or typos, I just love the feel of my keyboard/switches and the build quality.

Plus those crap rubber domes start to hurt after excessive hours of typing for me personally.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:34:20

*wonders if the OP has considered that there are a lot of mechanical keyboards that they might enjoy better than the logitech AND Model M*

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: SuperSerb on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:34:59

Quote from: keyboardlover;371465

I agree with the OP.

Show Image

(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110419100726/callofduty/images/8/80/Troll-face-problem.jpg)

I'm not a troll, you can check out the thread I made about my model m. I still love it for its retro feel and clickyness.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: redpill on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:37:49

Quote from: SuperSerb;371460

recently I bought a cheap logitech rubber dome keyboard (10 euros). Now I type faster, the room is silent and I make less typos. I type at about 75 WPM btw.

Was it a Logitech K120?  I've heard those are REALLY good (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?19415).

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:38:11

If you buy everything in my sig (except Taeyeon), your question will be answered.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: 7bit on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:38:59

Quote from: SuperSerb;371460

I already made a thread about my IBM Model M keyboard, but recently I bought a cheap logitech rubber dome keyboard (10 euros). Now I type faster, the room is silent and I make less typos. I type at about 75 WPM btw.

So remind me again, why are mechanical keyboards all that great?

 
Buckling springs are not made for speed, they are made for accuracy!

If you don't hear your keystroke clicking, has it registered?

Also: Every keyboard needs some time to get used to it. Even different key caps can make a difference! Just take your time and you will see, that your usual typing speed comes back. Also, you should try some Cherry or ALPS switches before you say mechanicals are bad!

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:38:59

Inflammatory title = troll post.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: mmmty on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:39:42

Model M is not the only mechanical keyboard.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: 7bit on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:47:14

Quote from: mmmty;371478

Model M is not the only mechanical keyboard.

 
Yes, right, there is also the Model F!

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:48:40

OP needs to get a model F

\end thread

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Tennobanzai on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:53:24

I thought it's known fact mechanical keyboards = huge e-peen? I dont even use half my boards cuz im just that big

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: bhtooefr on Fri, 01 July 2011, 15:55:15

My fastest keyboard is on an Acer Aspire One - one of the old ones where 10.1" ones were still using an 8.9" model's keyboard. It feels awful, but I'm very, very fast on it.

My slowest keyboards are Model Ms. They feel decent, but older ones feel fatiguing after a while.

Model F, or Cherry MX Blue? Reasonably fast, and not fatiguing, and in the case of the Model F, awesome key feel, IMO.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: eyeshield21san on Fri, 01 July 2011, 16:41:13

Who is sending all these haters?

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: csm725 on Fri, 01 July 2011, 17:10:38

me from ocn.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: dreamingftw on Fri, 01 July 2011, 17:47:18

Quote from: eyeshield21san;371533

Who is sending all these haters?

A rubber dome keyboard forum must've shut down somewhere and geekhack.org is probably the link they got from the 404 page error.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Daniel Beaver on Fri, 01 July 2011, 17:59:15

Women should stay in the kitchen. They look hotter when they're submissive.

(http://i.imgur.com/0VB7b.jpg)

Quote

ed·i·fy  (d-f)
tr.v. ed·i·fied, ed·i·fy·ing, ed·i·fies
To instruct especially so as to encourage intellectual, moral, or spiritual improvement.

(I wonder if I'll get banned anyways?)

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: strum4h on Fri, 01 July 2011, 18:02:30

But I like mechanical keyboards =(

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 01 July 2011, 18:08:07

Quote from: eyeshield21san;371533

Who is sending all these haters?

 
Think less binary, love for A not imply hate for B, real world is analog and the human brain is built to understand it w/o great efforts.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: elitekeyboards on Fri, 01 July 2011, 18:23:49

Is it summer already?

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 01 July 2011, 18:26:36

Unless you live in Australia, it should.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: qtan5370 on Fri, 01 July 2011, 18:28:08

10 dollar great for 6-10 month, 100 dollar great for 5-6 years.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: khanable on Fri, 01 July 2011, 18:33:50

Scam?

Hardly

Mechanical keyboards have brought me fame, fortune, and tons of chicks

No chick wants your dinky 10 euro dome board, brotato

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: audioave10 on Fri, 01 July 2011, 18:38:36

Whatever you like...dude. I also like the Key Tronic 3601 rubber dome. However, it is not the norm.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Daniel Beaver on Fri, 01 July 2011, 18:41:10

On a serious note... I use a Dell Quietkey rubber dome keyboard at work. I rather like it.

But of course, the rest of these fools drink deep from the fountain haterade.

(http://ih3.redbubble.net/work.3888929.2.sticker,375x360.haterade-v1.png)

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: eyesnine on Fri, 01 July 2011, 20:00:14

Mechanical keyboards have a lot going for them.

They're more durable.

They're customizable. Keycaps, springs, stems can be swapped and tweaked.

They're also not terribly expensive. I've bought Cherry MX boards from eBay at around $30-$40. I have one now that I've been using for almost 3 years.

Sure, they can be more expensive, but in the long run they can also be better value.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 01 July 2011, 20:09:05

Quote from: eyesnine;371623

They're more durable.

 
While all your other points are more than valid, this requires a longer discussion, in short is not true.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: eyesnine on Fri, 01 July 2011, 20:17:58

From personal experience rubber domes wear out and stop rebounding properly.

I work with cash registers all day long, and have done for many years. Most are rubber domes, because they're more spill resistant, and more resistant to dirt and dust. So, in that respect they can be more durable, though I would term that "spill resistant" or "dirt and dust resistant". I'm actually waiting on ANOTHER replacement board because the enter button on the keypad of one of my registers is broken *AGAIN*. Cashiers love to hammer on that key. :)

A metal spring wears down much slower than a rubber dome. So, in an environment where the keyboard is well maintained and not subject to spills, for example, the mechanical keyboard will outlast the rubber dome.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 01 July 2011, 20:31:22

Unless of course your keyboard has drainage channels ;)

I'd challenge the OP to define what a "mechanical keyboard" actually is.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 01 July 2011, 20:50:05

As I said long discussion needed.

Rubber domes are not all the same, there are zillions of them, the cheapest one starts from 3 or 4 $ and ends with Topre.

But even if we limit to the membrane ones there is an huge chioce, i have a client that owns more or less 70 PCs it's company grew slowly and so their PCs so in this company there are more or less 70 different keyboards, some are in the reservation sector where they are used continuously for 12h per day and most of them are cheap acer or samsung rubber domes that are working w/o a single glitch since 1995 or 1998, other ones lasted just 2 or 3 years, hardly a cherry MX board will last such time w/o a single switch broken or stuck, w/o losing evenness or tactility, w/o an oxidized contact or a bad soldering.

What changes is the fixability (as you said) a switch can be replaced, lubed, cleaned, but this hardly is an interesting matter for a large company, when you can swap a whole keyboard for 5$ who cares about replacing a switch that cost almost the same ?

We want to talk about legends ? You remember that filco ones will last 3 months when some cheap rubber dome are practically undeletable ?

Obviously even mech are not all the same there are the Buckling springs that are damn robust, there are other kind of switches, there are the cherry linear that surely will last more than the tactile ones and so on.

But the conclusion is that mech are meant to be cosed with the heart, not with the brain, trying to rationalize usually lead to tell lies to herself.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 01 July 2011, 20:52:42

Quote from: ch_123;371634

I'd challenge the OP to define what a "mechanical keyboard" actually is.

 

I already challenged myself and the whole forum, w/o a reasonable conclusion.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 01 July 2011, 20:53:40

This is why we need troll polls.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 01 July 2011, 20:58:03

Quote from: The Solutor;371639

I already challenged myself and the whole forum, w/o a reasonable conclusion.

 
I always liked the traditional definition of them being keyboards derived from electric typewriter mechanisms. Has nothing to do with the modern definition, but at least it makes sense.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 01 July 2011, 21:09:18

Quote from: ch_123;371641

I always liked the traditional definition of them being keyboards derived from electric typewriter mechanisms. Has nothing to do with the modern definition, but at least it makes sense.

 
Is surely not wrong but also not too descriptive.

Maybe define them as keyboard where the elastic component of the keys is based on a metal spring (alternatively is not based on a rubber spring) could be a more descriptive definition.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Canuck21 on Fri, 01 July 2011, 21:33:10

Personally I don't care if I type faster or slower. A handful of characters more or less don't make much of a difference to me since I only type for leisure like right now and at work I mostly use the numpad. What I care about is the feel and the sound. I want a keyboard that feels and sounds good when I press a key and mechanical keyboards satisfy those two senses, much more so than rubber dome keyboards. I now use mechanical keyboards both at home and at work and whenever I type on colleagues' rubber dome keyboards, the sensation is close to horrible; it's mushy and quite uncomfortable.

Basically, to each their own. If you feel better with rubber dome keyboards, then good for you. Neither types are are a scam, it's a matter of preference.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: noodles256 on Fri, 01 July 2011, 21:49:22

Quote from: ch_123;371634

Unless of course your keyboard has drainage channels ;)

I'd challenge the OP to define what a "mechanical keyboard" actually is.

a gundam

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: False_Dmitry_II on Fri, 01 July 2011, 23:38:08

Quote from: noodles256;371675

a gundam

I'll take the deathscythe

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: candy on Sat, 02 July 2011, 09:09:58

Quote from: Daniel Beaver;371557

Women should stay in the kitchen. They look hotter when they're submissive.

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/0VB7b.jpg)

(I wonder if I'll get banned anyways?)

we can always hope.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 02 July 2011, 09:13:06

Ooh nice pic Beaver =)

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: clack on Sat, 02 July 2011, 09:16:15

i love being scammed

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Mazora on Sat, 02 July 2011, 09:22:19

Quote from: SuperSerb;371472

I'm not a troll, you can check out the thread I made about my model m. I still love it for its retro feel and clickyness.

What about non-retro + clickyness ?

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Ollum on Sat, 02 July 2011, 12:06:21

can I haz troll?

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 02 July 2011, 12:15:55

I'm convinced. What a sucker I have been. I can't believe I bought into comfortable, smooth feeling, high quality mechanical keyboards. I'm getting rid of them all immediately and will replace them with $5 rubberdomes. Thanks a lot.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: TacticalCoder on Sat, 02 July 2011, 12:31:50

Quote from: lysol;371999

I'm convinced. What a sucker I have been. I can't believe I bought into comfortable, smooth feeling, high quality mechanical keyboards. I'm getting rid of them all immediately and will replace them with $5 rubberdomes. Thanks a lot.

 
Same for me lysol: resistance is futile.  GH is infested by users with less than 10 posts praising the greatness of typical rubber dome and one higher-level troll is helping them in that quest.

Selling my buckling springs and my Cherry brown ASAP and going to "it's-just-a-matter-of-preference-they're-just-as-good-as-mechanical" $5 rubber-domes too.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: theferenc on Sat, 02 July 2011, 12:48:03

I'll take your BS keyboards, TacticalCoder, especially your industrial. What do you say, $30 for the lot? That would allow you to replace each of them with a nice shiny $5 rubber dome keyboard.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: TacticalCoder on Sat, 02 July 2011, 13:38:39

Quote from: theferenc;372022

I'll take your BS keyboards, TacticalCoder, especially your industrial. What do you say, $30 for the lot? That would allow you to replace each of them with a nice shiny $5 rubber dome keyboard.

 
$30 for the lot sounds fair and I give you free shipping ; )

Seriously though: at the moment you can apparently buy NOS full-size industrial case from Unicomp so you may want to get one for your 1391401.  And don't wait too long: that stock may not last long (I ordered one full-size industrial case top and bottom from Unicomp as part of a french group buy).

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: MrGPhantome on Sat, 02 July 2011, 14:00:13

i think good typists with good technique, or at least those who are interested in becoming good typists are the only people who really achieve the benefits of an mechanical keyboard. I have a feeling most people come into thinking that a mechanical keyboard will automatically make them better typists, but the fact is that practice is what makes someone better at anything like typing.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Wihl on Sat, 02 July 2011, 14:11:30

This forum seems so easy to troll o.O

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 02 July 2011, 14:25:03

It is, feel free to give it a go.
$5 RUBBERDOMES FTW!!!!1!!!1!!one!!!
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ91ZXmO6eP87MEO1v2Uo7I8-8mLI870m1UNIa6XuTnPzxEIqiD&t=1)

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: liist on Sat, 02 July 2011, 15:34:21

Everyone else at the office (sweatshop with computers) think I got scammed with my Filco, and are content on using the cheap Dells. Too bad they aren't in on it.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Dali on Sat, 02 July 2011, 16:49:09

Successful troll is succesful!

BRB selling my mechs and getting $5 rubberdomes.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: flaming_june on Sat, 02 July 2011, 17:11:31

Quote from: liist;372090

Everyone else at the office (sweatshop with computers) think I got scammed with my Filco, and are content on using the cheap Dells. Too bad they aren't in on it.

They're okay with your blues being so loud?

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Tony on Sun, 03 July 2011, 00:18:07

For most people a $5 rubber dome is sufficient. Only a few percent who are typists or frequent gamers need mechanical keyboards.

Filco, Ducky, Topre all know it but they "forgot" to tell customers, getting more profit by the way.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Dali on Sun, 03 July 2011, 00:21:58

For anybody who spends an embarrassingly long time in front of a computer, a good keyboard is a decent investment.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 03 July 2011, 00:29:17

A $50 bicycle is sufficient for almost everyone, but that doesn't mean almost everyone can appreciate a nicer ride even if only ever going on Sunday rides down to the ice cream stand.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Trueepower on Sun, 03 July 2011, 01:59:24

If they feel better than they are better for you. There is no guarantee that any keyboard will make you type faster, that is ridiculous. People like mechanical keyboards overall because of the feel. There is no "guaranteed claim" that they will make you type faster or make fewer errors.

Obviously a Troll thread, but I like typing on my mechanical so much that I decided to respond!

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: NeeGo on Sun, 03 July 2011, 03:27:19

Quote from: Trueepower;372321

If they feel better than they are better for you. There is no guarantee that any keyboard will make you type faster, that is ridiculous. People like mechanical keyboards overall because of the feel. There is no "guaranteed claim" that they will make you type faster or make fewer errors.

Obviously a Troll thread, but I like typing on my mechanical so much that I decided to respond!

 
I really don't think that my WPM has increased much (if not at all) with the Model M, but I actually ENJOY typing now when I normally wouldn't care.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: MrGPhantome on Sun, 03 July 2011, 04:49:33

I think mechanical keyboards do something more important for the user than just increasing typing speed. For me ever since switching to a mechanical keyboard my wrists and finger pains have pretty much disappeared. Mostly due to the fact that I'm not constantly bottoming out on keys anymore and applying unnecessary force on my joints. It's also much easier to type in the proper posture which also helps with fatigue which allows me to type and be productive for much longer.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: jpc on Sun, 03 July 2011, 07:48:29

Ripster has that Bernie Madoff SSK, it's the smoking gun that confirms the OP.

OP has a point. If you use QWERTY layout to hunt-and-peck at heavy Model M switches, you may find yourself in pain. Ask me how I know.

So spend $1000, buy ten fancy keyboards with various switches and form factors, you'll probably find one or two you like. Nothing scam-like about it :)

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: Hydroid on Sun, 03 July 2011, 08:02:22

Personally I couldn't care less if my mechanical keyboard makes me type faster or more accurately than a rubber dome. As a lot of Apple die hards will say, its not all about the specs but about the experience as a whole. I spend roughly 12-14 hours every day in front of my computer, and so being able to enjoy it is a big factor for me. If the typing experience feels good (sex for the fingers good) then it justifies the keyboard over a rubber dome even if my typing speed stays the same. My typing speed has gone up about 10-15wpm since I got mine, but just to be able to start typing each day and just be filled with pleasure is what makes it special for me. Car fanatics will tell you the same thing about their restored classic or exotic sports car. On regular roads they can't drive faster than everyone else but that doesn't mean they should drive a hybrid. If they personally appreciate the car and get great pleasure from driving it they are justified in owning and driving the car.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: The Solutor on Sun, 03 July 2011, 09:00:12

Quote

Car fanatics will tell you the same thing about their restored classic or exotic sports car. On regular roads they can't drive faster than everyone else but that doesn't mean they should drive a hybrid. If they personally appreciate the car and get great pleasure from driving it they are justified in owning and driving the car.

As stated before is more or less the same of Hi-End hifi mania, some people buys Vacuum tube aplifiers because think they are better, some others buy them because are trendy, exclusive, uncommon and so on.

But as in that sector doesn't mean that everything else is crap by default, the glorious (and cheap) NAD 3020 was not just a transistor based amplifier (no jfet, mosfet, tubes, funky power supplies) but was based on the 2N3055 that was the cheapest and the more mainstream power transistor ever built, and was a damn good amplifier.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: N8N on Sun, 03 July 2011, 09:13:39

Quote from: PrinsValium;372314

A $50 bicycle is sufficient for almost everyone, but that doesn't mean almost everyone can appreciate a nicer ride even if only ever going on Sunday rides down to the ice cream stand.

Ummm...  I don't know where you can get a bicycle that'll last more  than a hundred miles for $50...  I say this as someone who just came inside from a short ride on one that I essentially built myself on an old (really old) Trek touring frame... wheels and drivetrain alone probably cost me $4-500 and I was being very frugal (buying couple year old NIB parts on eBay etc.) and all the labor was by YT save for building the wheels (I now have most of the tools to do it, just need a tensiometer and dish gauge, so maybe someday I will try that too.)

I get your point that you were trying to make, but disagree with the example you used.  If you want to use something long term and not have it piss you off or fail on you at an inconvemient moment, it's worth paying for quality.  Two ways to buy stuff:  buy cheap, and know that you just bought a consumable, and you'll have to replace it eventually.  Or pay the money and buy quality and know that it won't let you down, and years down the road if/when you do have to fix it, it won't be a maintenance nightmare.  (of course, paying lots of money does not guarantee quality...)  Personally, something that I'm going to be riding at 30+ MPH at times (yeah, downhill...  I'm not Lance) with only a layer of Lycra between me and road rash, I prefer to be quality...

In other news, I just gave someone a copy of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" last week.

(so you really shouldn't be shocked that I ended up here obsessing over keyboards.)

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: N8N on Sun, 03 July 2011, 09:17:36

Quote from: The Solutor;372403

As stated before is more or less the same of Hi-End hifi mania, some people buys Vacuum tube aplifiers because think they are better, some others buy them because are trendy, exclusive, uncommon and so on.

But as in that sector doesn't mean that everything else is crap by default, the glorious (and cheap) NAD 3020 was not just a transistor based amplifier (no jfet, mosfet, tubes, funky power supplies) but was based on the 2N3055 that was the cheapest and the more mainstream power transistor ever built, and was a damn good amplifier.

yes I sympathize with this comment as well.  I used to drive a Porsche 944 to work every day.  It probably cost me about 1/10 what some of my coworkers' cars cost, but I enjoyed it far more than I would have enjoyed driving their cars.  Was it fast?  no.  But it handled great and felt like it was machined from a solid billet.  Loved that car...  now I have a job with a company car, which is a *sob* Chevy Impala...  sold the P-car for $100 along with all the cores/spares I'd collected for it because it was starting to get long in the tooth, I was losing my place to live, and it would have been more hassle to hang on to it than to let it go.  Dammit.

The same is true for a lot of stuff... cars, bicycles, motorcycles, amps, wristwatches, whatever.  There's good and expensive, there's expensive and OK, there's cheap and crappy, and then there's the rare moments where you find something cheap and good.  I love those moments :)

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: The Solutor on Sun, 03 July 2011, 10:00:21

Agreed.

Anyway I think there is also a different "problem" here. As far I can understand "quality" have different meaning for Americans and Europeans (which in turn have also different flavors depending on the country).

For Americans quality is (more or less) equal to heavier, sturdier, bigger, stronger... and this is not wrong, but quality is also care for the details, evenness on production, evenness of performances during the object life, resilience to accidents and so on.

Looking at the keyboards while a BS, more or less, satisfy both of the visions, other keyboards doesn't.

Most of cherry MX, while likely outlasts most of the RD, are lacking evenness trough the production, thorough the single keys, and during the keyboards life, they are more or less artisianal products with all the minus and all the plus of this this kind of production, they can be killed by a single spill of liquid they can stopped by a single hair inside a microswitch.

Being made by a number of pieces grater than a 7x factor are more prone to failure, because  statistics works against them, and so on.

All this is also quality and in that aspects a decent rubberdome wins hands down.

A mech keyboard should be bought because one like it, period. Most of the rational toughs are retrofitted ones, some of them are just lies or misconceptions.

Mechs are things that must be bought with the heart, not with the brain.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: kaiserreich on Sun, 03 July 2011, 10:24:47

Nicely said, solutor

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: dux on Sun, 03 July 2011, 11:05:40

Quote from: Hydroid;372386

If the typing experience feels good (sex for the fingers good) then it justifies the keyboard over a rubber dome even if my typing speed stays the same. I spend roughly 12-14 hours every day in front of my computer, and so being able to enjoy it is a big factor for me.

 
Being new here I want to tell what led me to mech keyboards. Couple of yers ago I worked in an emergency room in a southern european country, typing the whole day on a 40 year old German Olympia typewriter. (Why they used them is an another, rather unbeliavable story. They told me, due to antique laws this really would be the only legal and at the same time practicable way to archive the sensible documentation. They did used computers in every other part of the hospital. Since the producer of the machines would't service them, they had a guy in the hospital itself that repaired them (I asked about that, not believing they still could be repaired). Of course, the keys were doubleshot big ass centered all caps and extreemly shiny:) The story is, working under pressure and night shifts, the only thing that really made fun was typing on those loud monsters. In that setting, hospital at night, the loudness even had a kind of reassuring effect. I would not ignore the physical effect too. For couple of  weeks it was really fatiguing, but after some time, training effects made typing on them an enjoyable sporty action:)

So that's why mechanical keyboards make sense for me:)

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: redpill on Sun, 03 July 2011, 11:14:27

Cool story, Freude am Schreiben!

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: TacticalCoder on Sun, 03 July 2011, 11:35:19

Quote

If the typing experience feels good (sex for the fingers good) then it justifies the keyboard over a rubber dome even if my typing speed stays the same.

I type on a mech board for the same reason that I sleep in a comfy bed and not on floor covered with sand and scratchy stones.  It feels more comfortable and it's probably better for my health.

Regarding speed: I'm between 90 and 120 wpm on my buckling spring.  I can type fast on other keyboards, like say on a scissor switch but as soon as I make one mistake I'm totally losing my speed: no feedback (I don't know if it's tactile or audio or something else, but there's a feedback that is simply missing on non-mech boards).  On my buckling spring I don't know how to explain it but when I make a mistake I can "feel" it and I know the mistake I just did and I know how to correct it (for example I know if I need to erase one or two characters... I can't do that on a keyboard that's not "mech" enough).

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: curzen on Sun, 03 July 2011, 13:02:29

Quote from: SuperSerb;371460

I already made a thread about my IBM Model M keyboard, but recently I bought a cheap logitech rubber dome keyboard (10 euros). Now I type faster, the room is silent and I make less typos. I type at about 75 WPM btw.

So remind me again, why are mechanical keyboards all that great?

 

they aren't for you it seems. now let me go dredge up some care from givea**** bay.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: flaming_june on Sun, 03 July 2011, 13:16:34

Why are you people so easily trolled.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 03 July 2011, 14:17:30

Quote from: N8N;372406

Ummm...  I don't know where you can get a bicycle that'll last more  than a hundred miles for $50...  I say this as someone who just came inside from a short ride on one that I essentially built myself on an old (really old) Trek touring frame... wheels and drivetrain alone probably cost me $4-500 and I was being very frugal (buying couple year old NIB parts on eBay etc.) and all the labor was by YT save for building the wheels (I now have most of the tools to do it, just need a tensiometer and dish gauge, so maybe someday I will try that too.)

I get your point that you were trying to make, but disagree with the example you used.  If you want to use something long term and not have it piss you off or fail on you at an inconvemient moment, it's worth paying for quality.  Two ways to buy stuff:  buy cheap, and know that you just bought a consumable, and you'll have to replace it eventually.  Or pay the money and buy quality and know that it won't let you down, and years down the road if/when you do have to fix it, it won't be a maintenance nightmare.  (of course, paying lots of money does not guarantee quality...)  Personally, something that I'm going to be riding at 30+ MPH at times (yeah, downhill...  I'm not Lance) with only a layer of Lycra between me and road rash, I prefer to be quality...

In other news, I just gave someone a copy of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" last week.

(so you really shouldn't be shocked that I ended up here obsessing over keyboards.)

Ok. make that $88 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Power-X-Men-s-26-Bicycle/11089998) (full suspension even), and I didn't claim it would last a hundred miles... Building from components bought separately is always far far more expensive than buying pre-assembled products, compare buying MX switches, case hardware, PCB manufacturing stuff, and so on to build your own keyboard =P

We have a high volumes electronics store that used to "give" away free bicycles with a lot of products during their campaigns. Cheap mass ordered Chinese bikes with crap components, of course. Probably cost them far less than $50 a piece, I hope.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: N8N on Mon, 04 July 2011, 05:39:50

Quote from: PrinsValium;372596

Ok. make that $88 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Power-X-Men-s-26-Bicycle/11089998) (full suspension even), and I didn't claim it would last a hundred miles... Building from components bought separately is always far far more expensive than buying pre-assembled products, compare buying MX switches, case hardware, PCB manufacturing stuff, and so on to build your own keyboard =P

We have a high volumes electronics store that used to "give" away free bicycles with a lot of products during their campaigns. Cheap mass ordered Chinese bikes with crap components, of course. Probably cost them far less than $50 a piece, I hope.

 
Ugh.  That's not a bicycle, that's a bicycle shaped object.  I suppose it's *possible* to ride it hundreds of miles, if you have your own set of tools to fix everything that's wrong with it out of the box, but then again, if you have your own tools, you'd know enough to buy something w/ better geometry, initial build quality, better components where they matter (esp derailleurs) etc. etc. etc. and so on...

A new bicycle with lower-end but quality components (say, Shimano Tiagra or 105) for less than $500 is a pretty good deal.  (yeah, I'm kinda snobbish about some stuff, but then again, the only limitations to where I can ride my own bikes is where the road ends and my own fat ass.)  I'd consider a $88 bicycle to be a liability, not an asset - I'd move it around the garage for a while before taking it to Salvation Army (or likely just putting it out on the curb with a sign on it saying "free bike" - I did that once and it lasted about three hours.)

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: theferenc on Mon, 04 July 2011, 06:06:17

Shouldn't that be "free bicycle shaped object"?

To be fair, I did pick up a bike for $50 not  too long ago. It's a Peugeot UO19. Yes, it needs more than $50 worth of work done on it, but it is a bike. And it was $50.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 04 July 2011, 07:02:08

Quote from: theferenc;372987

Shouldn't that be "free bicycle shaped object"?

To be fair, I did pick up a bike for $50 not  too long ago. It's a Peugeot UO19. Yes, it needs more than $50 worth of work done on it, but it is a bike. And it was $50.

Used bikes doesn't really count I guess. I've been given fully functional bikes for free as well as salvaging ones from dumpsters.

Quote from: N8N;372983

Ugh.  That's not a bicycle, that's a bicycle shaped object.  I suppose it's *possible* to ride it hundreds of miles, if you have your own set of tools to fix everything that's wrong with it out of the box, but then again, if you have your own tools, you'd know enough to buy something w/ better geometry, initial build quality, better components where they matter (esp derailleurs) etc. etc. etc. and so on...

A new bicycle with lower-end but quality components (say, Shimano Tiagra or 105) for less than $500 is a pretty good deal.  (yeah, I'm kinda snobbish about some stuff, but then again, the only limitations to where I can ride my own bikes is where the road ends and my own fat ass.)  I'd consider a $88 bicycle to be a liability, not an asset - I'd move it around the garage for a while before taking it to Salvation Army (or likely just putting it out on the curb with a sign on it saying "free bike" - I did that once and it lasted about three hours.)

If there were no other way to get dirt cheap bikes like that I would buy them to have for going down to the station. Things like that where I have to leave it unattended. Last time the dollar took a dive off the deep end I finally pulled myself together and got me a custom titanium frame from seven. So I guess I am kind of a bicycle snob myself =D

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 04 July 2011, 08:21:02

Quote from: flaming_june;372568

Why are you people so easily trolled.

 
We secretly enjoy it. Too bad troll polls have been outlawed...they used to keep it from getting too out of hand.

Title: Mechanical keyboards are a scam
Post by: baller1308 on Tue, 05 July 2011, 00:59:12

Quote from: flaming_june;372568

Why are you people so easily trolled.

Probably because I live near a lot of bridges.