The tactile bump is almost impossible to feel when typing quickly.
I have 3 red boards sitting on my desk in front of me: My Filco, Poker, and PLU. They are all awesome. Not so sure I agree with the sentiment about them being better than browns (well, plate mounted browns anyways), but I at the very least reds are my second favorite switch.
There's something about the stroke of a plate mounted brown switch that just satisfies me. The bump combined with the sound and the plate... I dunno.. it's just sexy to me. Reds are just barely under browns for me.
Just my $0.02.
When you try reds and browns side by side it make it seem as if there is something wrong with the brown switches. The reds feel so much cleaner and smoother by comparison.
That's funny, cuz I feel like something's missing in the reds
That's funny, cuz I feel like something's missing in the reds
Browns tend to grow on most people, so I always contend that they're the most well rounded switch in the MX lineup.
After a few days with my Red board, I'm missing the click, and may go back to Blue. For a FPS game or something, it would be fine, but typing and SC2 do seem to benefit from the feedback... the feel is subjective and I go back and forth all the time as to which I'd ultimately prefer.
Good thing there's a Brown on its way. I started with Brown, would be funny if I ended up using it exclusively again after two years.
I do bottom out regularly. That may explains why I like red. Plus with thick double shot keycaps, there is more "bass" in the throck sound when you buttom out, which I like.
i'd rather have brown in my pants than red *cough*
I wouldn't call them well-rounded, I would call them a bad compromise; an indecisive switch!
The problem with the browns, is that they're hardly tactile. As some folks pointed out they feel like something's wrong with the switch... it's just frictiony and the bump is vague. It doesn't even match the actuation point... I can get past the bump without registering a keystroke. It can best be described as a tactile switch that lost its tactileness, or a linear switch that got some dirt inside. I've been using browns for years, what a relief the Advantage LF keyboard has been with the reds!
The fact linear switches have no tactile indication of actuation is MAJOR shortcoming for people who aren't looking at the screen or point of input while typing something.
Really? Never ever was a problem for me
After using linear switches for more than a week you will know exactly when its the keypress have been registered
I do bottom out regularly. That may explains why I like red. Plus with thick double shot keycaps, there is more "bass" in the throck sound when you buttom out, which I like.
The fact linear switches have no tactile indication of actuation is MAJOR shortcoming for people who aren't looking at the screen or point of input while typing something.
I wouldn't call them well-rounded, I would call them a bad compromise; an indecisive switch!
The problem with the browns, is that they're hardly tactile. As some folks pointed out they feel like something's wrong with the switch... it's just frictiony and the bump is vague. It doesn't even match the actuation point... I can get past the bump without registering a keystroke. It can best be described as a tactile switch that lost its tactileness, or a linear switch that got some dirt inside. I've been using browns for years, what a relief the Advantage LF keyboard has been with the reds!
So what about a switch with Brown springs and more tactile bump?
"Never ever" is one week? I've been using them for over a year off and on. I'm unimpressed. They're so light with no tactility you almost always bottom out, so that might not be a problem most the time, but that doesn't mean it won't always not be a problem.
I'm not here to spread FUD, like I said, brown or red makes no difference to me, so arguing with me on this basis in any regard is of no utility. The point is that browns have been a staple for a long time, and for good reason, with good research and millions of hours of field testing; reds have not. The grass is always greener on the other side...
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17357-U9BL-Beige-edition-(clear-switches-brown-springs)&p=333606&viewfull=1#post333606
The point is that browns have been a staple for a long time, and for good reason, with good research and millions of hours of field testing; reds have not.
AAAhhh....your "ergo clear" mod I was just reading! Is my best bet to go to Mouser or Digikey and buy the handful of misc. switches to try out?
"Never ever" is one week? I've been using them for over a year off and on. I'm unimpressed. They're so light with no tactility you almost always bottom out, so that might not be a problem most the time, but that doesn't mean it won't always not be a problem.
I'm not here to spread FUD, like I said, brown or red makes no difference to me, so arguing with me on this basis in any regard is of no utility. The point is that browns have been a staple for a long time, and for good reason, with good research and millions of hours of field testing; reds have not. The grass is always greener on the other side...
Speaking of which, after lubing up the stabilizers on this PLU ML-87, I'm almost diggin it more than my Filco Linear R... maybe it's the material the caps are made up. But the sound is most satisfying.
I split my time 50/50 between Red/Brown on a day to day basis (work = red, home = brown) and I think this backlash against Browns is kind of unwarranted. They're still amazing switches and the first ones I'd recommend to anyone looking to get into mechanicals. Reds have their own issues (once you learn to not bottom out lighter mechanical keys the feedback of Browns is quite nice) and if I had one switch to choose it'd be the Browns.
The clear switch seems to really be the odd one out. Although, there are people who like that switch as well... it seems less people do.
But, there seems to be a legit following for red switches developing.
EK tend (obviously) to overrate the technology behind switches.
They aren't nano sized gyoroscopes or rocket engines, they are just switches. A 25 years old switch based on a 100+ years old technology.
A red switch is just a well known switch with a softer spring, hardly the galaxy will implode because an unforeseen detail on this.
An BTW any industries of this kind is used to test the production, firstly inside the plants, then using the worker as early tester, then selling the first batches just inside the province, the region, or the nation.
If you bottom out every key, you will not find the tactile bump of brown very clearly. But with softer hands, you tend to float over the keyboards and tapping the keys with just enough force, you will appreciate the tactile brown greatly.Show Image(http://www.upl.co/uploads/cherry-brown--force-diagram.jpg)
The tactile bump of brown is most felt when you press just over the actuation point 2mm, not at bottom out 4mm.
So if you bottom out often, you will find reds softer to your liking, since with brown you have to use stronger force (55g) to overcome the pressure point.
Others who are touch typist love it. Most people who just type, and don't game should still appreciate a brown switch over a red one.
Brown is a good switch to try first.
I think I have my list of 1 or 2 of each Cherry MX switch below to make the grand comparison. I think it will cost about $10-15. I don't think I'm missing any?
I'll get PCB mount.
-red
-black
-brown
-blue
-clear
-ergo clear (clear stem/brown-red-blue spring)
-tacto clear (clear stem/black spring)
-tacto clear (clear stem/black spring)
I didn't concern myself too much with "spacebar" switches, maybe they should be in a comparison batch as well?
Your thoughts?
From my test black's and clear's springs looks different acts the same
BTW there's another option that maybe worth to try.
Glued Blues, I'm experimenting this right now with a couple of blue guinea pigs...
I am thinking about doing the same thing. I just bought 2 goldtouch numpads for the job. I think they are plate mounted. I don't have loose brown or red switches. The only switches I could think of now are the green and grey switches. Green is the spacebar switch for some older blue or black boards. Grey is the spacebar switch for some older clear boards. I just harvested one from an old Cherry board with clear switches. Would be cool to use the clear blank caps from round three group buy. Self explantory.
The green and grey switches are harder to come by. I would skip them unless you want a really complete set. I think I only have one green and two greys from old boards.
I'll just deal with the majority of the switches and forego the spacebar ones. I'll try looking at buying the individual switches needed for the comparison. Hope that's not too much of a hassle.
Did you lube the red stems? Could you post an article about this with more details? Sounds interesting!
EK tend (obviously) to overrate the technology behind switches.
An BTW any industries of this kind is used to test the production, firstly inside the plants, then using the worker as early tester, then selling the first batches just inside the province, the region, or the nation.
Talk about prices, reds are more expensive because they're sold in smaller number, so cost per each red product is higher than brown's.
Not everyone is the same. I absolutely HATE the bump
You been using them for a year but yet haven't learned to touch type?
I hope the goldtouch numpads I get will have browns. then I will only have to worry about buying a few red switches. I don't want to butcher my Filco reds. I could do ghetto red, but if I use the clear blank caps, they would not look right. I think either PCHome or ArmyGroup has red switches.
Is this EK guy from the company of Elitekeyboards? I thought this was just some kid on here talking. No business man who knows what is best talks like that. I would never buy from EK with someone from their company talking like that.
Anyways, all switches have their place. All of them should be available for a better selection. I think as mech boards become more popular that will be the case. Better selection across the board. Let's just hope the quality doesn't get worse. Probably will though based on how things work. Geekhack will be even more important for consumers looking to find the best keyboards.
I'm sorry, but have you seen geekhack the past few months? I would hardly say that the community as a whole has any kind of maturity whatsoever. And the only sense of "community" is that people can throw money at a "group buy". It's degraded into "what keyboard should I buy?" and trolls trolling trolls. For someone who claims to be on geekhack for some time, you surely haven't been on here much recently.
/rant
What does that even mean? Overrate? You're just being disagreeable.
Once again you're incorrect
acfrazier, I think what EK is saying is that, in the past, this was a mature, knowledgeable forum. Unfortunately, it's currently degraded to absolute crap, as you mention. I don't think I've even seen iMav post in months in the keyboard forum. When even the owner is avoiding it, you know something is wrong.
We really need to fix this, or the community is going to turn in to nothing but a more arrogant OCN.
We really need to fix this,
I'm sorry, but have you seen geekhack the past few months? I would hardly say that the community as a whole has any kind of maturity whatsoever. And the only sense of "community" is that people can throw money at a "group buy". It's degraded into "what keyboard should I buy?" and trolls trolling trolls. For someone who claims to be on geekhack for some time, you surely haven't been on here much recently.
/rant
What do your fingers tell you?
That they are the only switches I love everything about
I hate tactile switches like brown, clear, or blue. The bump is so annoying
Blacks are too stiff
Reds are just flawless for me
Reds are just flawless for me
This concept is sometimes forgotten around here.
Feel is the most important factor.Which is why we need more try switch boards floating around! :)
"Never ever" is one week? I've been using them for over a year off and on. I'm unimpressed. They're so light with no tactility you almost always bottom out, so that might not be a problem most the time, but that doesn't mean it won't always not be a problem.
I'm not here to spread FUD, like I said, brown or red makes no difference to me, so arguing with me on this basis in any regard is of no utility. The point is that browns have been a staple for a long time, and for good reason, with good research and millions of hours of field testing; reds have not. The grass is always greener on the other side...
Like I said previously...I logged onto the IRC channel for a week and all it was was people who didn't contribute to the forum complaining about ripster/others and talking about bitcoin. The few times I asked for help about my Leopold all I got was made fun of for not using a BS/capacitive board. IIRC it was ripster who actually suggested I grease the stabilizers and see if it helps. So much for not being helpful.
Also, most of these people coming on here and starting drama have been on the forum for < 6 months, I'm confused as to what makes them think that they have the right to dictate how it should work. Meh, just gotta hope it subsides I guess.
But yeah, kinda creepy. Like KL following me around. Those guys ARE "The Biggest Losers" in the Troll Poll and in Life.
Pls bring GeekGirl back :( Martin Sheen is just scary
That could be a good idea. Something like this maybe?Show Image(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/4ed0ae68.png)
Actually I am kinda complimented that IRC ONLY monitor my posts.
They are the most entertaining and most technically accurate.
But yeah, kinda creepy. Like KL following me around. Those guys ARE "The Biggest Losers" in the Troll Poll and in Life.
Get over it.Show Image(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6044/5901433523_fe41acf8c7_z.jpg)
See.
What did I say.
Creepy.
PS: The problem with GeekHack is that the majority of people here are just way too touchy. Lighten up, we're talking about keyboards here. Not everything has to be "insulting". So what if elitekeyboards says "the grass is greener on the other side"? I mean, seriously? You're going to get upset about that?
We all just need to chill out and remember why we're here.
Hmm, not sure lysol. The distribution of Black/Red feels odd to me. Let me think about what I'd like a bit. I like having Blues on the F keys as they're the easiest for people to try (Blackwidow in a Best Buy or something), though.
Alright, first let me touch on a few points here. (wall of text incoming)
I have a lot of **** going on in my life right now, the last thing I need is you guys ragging on me for something that happened in the past. I was mad, so what? It's over now and the thread was deleted in one case. There is no point digging up the grave. I know I really should not take it out on random people online, however that is one of my character flaws. Since I have no other friends, really, all I can do to talk about what's going on is on IRC or here, and frankly the people on IRC are very kind and understanding of my problems. If this is not the case here, then I shall depart and perhaps kindly ask iMav to delete my posts (ala webwit). If you want to dig up a grave, PM me about it, do not do it publicly. This is all I ask.
Contrary to popular belief, the IRC community is a nice bunch of people. Sure, we get off topic and discuss bitcoins or whatever, but such is the nature of a chat room. I know I'm going to get a one line reply from a few people for this, but C'est la vie.
Chobopants: One time occurrences are not a reason to form a bias on the community as a whole. If you spent more than 5 minutes in there (which, you didn't as my logs would dictate) you would know that most of the time we are a friendly bunch.
tl;dr: Knock it off. I've got too much **** going on and forum drama is the last thing I need.
Really? Because that's the same logic being used for Ripster. Oh, he was a major douchebag and went off the deepend? That's ok, he added a lot to the wiki, so it's all good.
Folks let's not derail this thread further. Opinion on the future of the reds?
Will it become standard / offered at same price, or will it stay limited-edition at a higher premium ?
Chobopants (and daerid), I think you're being overly damning of it, although I too am not a fan of the bots. And as far as current events, IRC is no different to the forum really, which has been swamped with arguing and commentary, much as are you are making now, perhaps with a different viewpoint. In fact, it's mostly back to its normal self already, unlike the forum. But even before that, some of us moved to a quieter place to talk about making stuff, because of all the noise in there.
There is certainly no coordination amongst 'the IRC crowd'... each speaks only for him or her self.
It wasn't all bad but they sure spent more time hating on ripster than talking about anything useful.
I came here to learn about keyboards, but I learned much more
MORE OFF TOPIC:
I sent this to Ripsters buddy (azfrazier) just now via PM:
Last time I went on the IRC channel as Maude (know I know why that I was reported as Ripster - must have been the IRC bot popped it up) Kalyrkh was talking about anallube.
TRUE story. Probably in the logs somewhere.
Really, don't you guys have anything better to do?Show Image(http://thumbs.reddit.com/t5_2qpol_15.png?v=3sgdj5c3tu60334fuqklkmz04jyy44h75yhq)
Contradictory much?
I clearly am the most interesting thing on the IRC channel so I'm just asking whose idea was it and how long has it been going on.
Would explain this weird stalker behavior lately.
I agree this is off topic.
I'll be posting a thread is the Forum Suggestions area.
Believe it or not I generally stay on topic but use funny pics/videos/memes to comment and try and keep the humor light with all the haters around here.
So to get things back on topic, do you believe the red switch will become more of a standard in the near future, and offered at the same price as the rest types of switches? Hopefuly elitekeyboards can provide some perspective on this!