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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => DIY Discussions ARCHIVE => Topic started by: greyhounds on Tue, 12 July 2011, 20:21:05
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After watching the animation of the Cherry MX blue switch here:
http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_cherry_mx.htm (http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_cherry_mx.htm)
I realized that you could put a spacer between the blue stem and the white trigger piece, which would cause the switch to trigger much faster. Then you'd have a whole bunch of travel left in the switch so you'd tend not to bottom out.
Has anyone tried this? I'm rarely the first to come up with these things....
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This might work, and wouldn't be too hard to try on a PCB mounted board where one could fiddle with the spacing and material used.
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I LOLed when I saw that they used chopsticks to open up the switch.
(http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/cherry_mx_31.jpg)
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By the size that's probably round toothpicks.
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Racist.
[video=youtube;d8AJerg7XHA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8AJerg7XHA[/video]
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You can also glue the jumping bean to the stem to silence the click.
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That would result in something very similar to a brown swith, wouldn't it?
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That would result in something very similar to a brown swith, wouldn't it?
No, the tactile bump is different for Blues vs. Browns vs. Clears.
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You can also glue the jumping bean to the stem to silence the click.
I tried, and the result is not worth. (very similar to a brown switch)
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Back to the OP.
Keep in mind that the white cursor, when released, is already spaced by more or less .5 mm, because the contact's spring force it in that position.
So a thicker spacer should be needed to see some effects.
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Solutor - you're right on that one. The blue triggers later than everything else, so to make a diference I'll have to shim alot.
I'm thinking of shimming it solid with the white slider as low as possible. That'll probably have the switch making faster than any other Cherry.
It'd be fun to barely have to push the keys for them to trigger.
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Solutor - you're right on that one. The blue triggers later than everything else, so to make a diference I'll have to shim alot.
I'm thinking of shimming it solid with the white slider as low as possible. That'll probably have the switch making faster than any other Cherry.
It'd be fun to barely have to push the keys for them to trigger.
Interesting....gotta find out. It could be the ultimate ergo as far as not pushing a key as much as just touching it.
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just fill it with a hot glue gun, try that (the space that is).
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Putting in a spacer is effectively the same thing as gluing the 2 pieces together. So you'll still end up with something close to a brown.
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omona -
After 2 hours of calculations, I pretty much agree with you.
We don't know what the force curve will look like on the back slope of the blue switch cam, as it hops out of the way typically and never gets to apply any real force to the profile. It's got to be similar to the brown though.
But the fun of this mod is that the switch should trigger earlier but still have about 3.7 mm total travel. Using the brown switch to approximate the slope I'd expect the switch to trigger at about 1.35 mm of travel. It should become like a fast acting brown switch.
To me the best looking graph though is the quick action blue stem with clear spring. Quick switch action coupled with the brown style 55g tactile point but then the high ramp rate spring from the clear - guaranteed to stop bottoming out or your money back!
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To me the best looking graph though is the quick action blue stem with clear spring.
Cyan switches are an interesting combination, even more interesting because it can be obtained as a "byproduct" of the beige/ergoclear ones, that are, likely, the best cherry switch available.
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Solutor - you're right on that one. The blue triggers later than everything else, so to make a diference I'll have to shim alot.
I'm thinking of shimming it solid with the white slider as low as possible. That'll probably have the switch making faster than any other Cherry.
It'd be fun to barely have to push the keys for them to trigger.
Not to pee on your sunshine, but if that's what you want, why not just get an Alps board? You pretty much described an AT101.
Now I like my AT101 - I'm in fact typing this on it now ('cause I wanted to try it again to make sure my memory of its feel was accurate) - but I far prefer the lower actuation point of the clears (and my BS boards.) The downside to the Alps - to me - is that the "bump" being right at the top means you almost always either bottom out or miss a keystroke. I'm curious if you wouldn't find the same thing with your fast-acting blues. (don't let me discourage you though - we need to know. For SCIENCE!)
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The Alps switches are way too sloppy for my tastes though, and in truth the primary reason I visit this forum is due to a medical condition I have in my finger joints. I can't work with a keyboard that bottoms out without developing excruciating hand pain (so Alps are certainly out for me). I'm a mechanical engineer and work with PC based engineeering applications all day, as well as doing database development for my company. I do this 8-14 hours every day and have for 20+ years so this is a big deal as you can imagine. No typing = no working = no $$$ = living under a bridge somewhere. I don't game, so I don't really care when a switch resets.
The fast acting blue coupled with a clear spring looks to be the best solution for my particular issues. With an earlier tactile bump and trigger point (yet full travel still) then the fast force ramp from the clear spring, I should be able to avoid bottoming out better than is possible on a typical blue, brown, or even clear board.
That being said though, nobody has tested the fast acting blue concept so we don't really know if it'll work. I'm waiting for parts to come in, but if someone beats me to it that'd be great. It'll take a dial indicator thought to accurately check the actuation point.
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The result is a 1.7mm trigger point. Other than that it's almost exactly the same as the brown, but with about 3g less force at any point on the curve.
It's a real pain to glue the white slider and blue stem toger, as any excess glue either gums up the slide ir makes it stick at the bottom of travel.
With that in mind this really isn't a worthwhile mod, although I still want to find a way to reduce the travel to the trigger point on the Cherry switches.
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I don't think would work, as the cam profile on the stem controls the actuation point.
If you cut enough spring off that it eventually resulted in a reduced travel to the actuation point, there probably wouldn't be enough force in the spring to ovecome the cam profile on the return trip (when the spring is providing all the force, instead of your finger).
I think we need to find a way to alter the cam shape on the stem, or somehow prevent the key from returning all the way to the top of the travel.
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How do you do the bumbers on the Topre?
I'm short on ideas on how to reduce the travel on the Cherry. I though about drilling the stem at the top of the guide and stuffing a pin through there that would essentially lenthen the guide and hit the top of the switch housing earlier, but it'd be a pain to do.
Maybe some sort of micro-machining of the cam on the stem would be the best path. If we built some sort of jig to hold the stem and limit the filing then you could just drop the stems in ther one at a time and file them by hand. Just an idea though...
Could we have custom stems made? Sounds like a group buy project.