geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Arcanius on Wed, 13 July 2011, 18:43:32
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I have a question for all the people with tactile keyboards, do you feel the bump when you type? I use a Model M, and I almost feel like I don't feel the bump at all, especially when I'm typing quickly. I feel the key travel, and that's mostly what I base my typing on. Even on the M, I feel like I bottom out lightly, and sometimes not at all, being aware of the travel, and stopping right before bottom, although most of the time just slightly tapping it, as is normal with BS, where the bump takes you straight to the end of the stroke.
Do you guys feel the bump when you type? Are you conscious of it? If not, why not? Discuss! :D
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On my M, it's what stops me pushing, so I tend to think of it more as the "bottom" of the keystroke, where the bottom is REALLY soft. I rarely actually bottom out on it.
On Cherries, especially browns, it's basically not there for me. They are just too light.
Not sure if you would call the Topres tactile or not, but I'm definitely aware of it.
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Agreed with theferenc
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I feel it on ergo clears more than on any switch I've used.
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It doesn't stop me on browns (consciously), I just see it as an extra bit of resistance.
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I am very conscious of it when typing, less so when gaming. Since I spend 50% of my work day typing on reds (blues the other 50) I notice the difference right away when I hop on my browns at home.
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On my Alps, hell yes, but the tactile actuation was way too high on the stroke to stop me from bottoming out. On browns, less so, but they are enough for me to stop from bottoming out most times.
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I do notice it somewhat on my blues, but not if I'm typing really fast. Feeling the bump is also something that my fingers have had to grow accustomed to, I couldn't feel it at the start.
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I've never been able to feel it on my cherry browns.
Then again I'm all about the click, screw the bump.
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On my Alps boards, hell yes. On my Cherry clear board, the high force tactile keeps me from bottoming out 99% of the time, I just unconsciously ride the bump. I just started typing on my new Leopold brown board, and I don't feel the bump at all when typing at full speed. I'll give myself time to adjust and see how it works out for me. When I got my Cherry board I had spent the previous ~8 months typing on clicky Alps, so it took some time to get used to the lack of audible click.
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I'm not conscious of the tactile bump on buckling spring keyboards. However I do notice its absence when typing on any other switch, especially linear switches.
Dude, typing on gummy, dirty, linear switches is one of the worst typing experiences possible. Worse than membrane keyboards.
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Ricky, which clear board do you have?
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Dude, typing on gummy, dirty, linear switches is one of the worst typing experiences possible.
I don't know which linear switches are gummy / dirty (examples?) ... However crisp, smooth ones, such as the cherry MX reds are awesome!
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Ricky, which clear board do you have?
In sig, G80-8113LRCUS-0. I started the thread in the Great Finds forum, and users here cleared the seller out of them! The seller has a stack of dirtier G80's with clears he's listing now, different model number but still a huge POS board chock full of donor clears!
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Oh, right, I guess I should have looked there. The 8113 is the POS board with the 2 rows of F keys, yeah? Plus the card reader?
You know, I wonder if they make a G80 with clears that has a smart card reader built in. I know they make smart card G80s (or at least, I thought the one I saw was). A G80-1800 layout but with a smart card interface would be really nice to have, but only if it had clears.
Sorry, that was a bit off topic.
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Back to the topic, I happened to do some tests last night using my KBC Poker (blues) and IBM mini (BS) wearing closed ear headphones listening to loud music on purpose, so I could not hear the keyboard at all.
I wanted to to concentrate on the bump while taking the audible feedback completely out of the picture. I also looked away to avoid seeing what I typed.
Turns out, for me at least, that it was rather hard to tell (when typing fast) if the key registered or not. Only bottoming out made me 100% sure. While typing slowly, it was easier to tell however.
In any case, it appears to me the bump is overrated, at least for me it doesn't help as much an audible feedback does.
Maybe more of you can try this test and post your findings. Make sure you cannot hear the keyboard AT ALL.
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I don't know which linear switches are gummy / dirty (examples?) ... However crisp, smooth ones, such as the cherry MX reds are awesome!
A board will only become gummy after months or years of use and abuse. Nothing comes stock like that :)
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Gummy no, but Cherry switches are slightly scratchy brand new (reds to a lesser extent). My new browns are scratchier than the clears in my G80 POS board. THAT I feel on every keypress.
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Very conscious about it. I kept pushing the key slowly down on my cherry mx brown and I simply hated the feeling of the bump
So now I only use linear switches :p
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I'm bottoming out still...I really need to get into the habit of not using all my force to type every key.
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Give it some time, and don't try to force it. It really will just come in time, as you get used to the keyboard. It took me a few months, even on buckling springs, which many around here call too heavy. Now I rarely ever bottom out any key but the space bar.
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sordna, I'd love to try your experiment, but I only have my HD 555 headphones, and my custom earplugs only attenuate about 15 dB, which won't be enough to not hear the board... I may try the two combined, although I don't like to blast music, as it can damage the ears.
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I use brown keyboards and feel it as a little resistance or snap. Consciousness? No, I focus on the text.
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sordna, I'd love to try your experiment, but I only have my HD 555 headphones, and my custom earplugs only attenuate about 15 dB, which won't be enough to not hear the board... I may try the two combined, although I don't like to blast music, as it can damage the ears.
Well, the part sensitive to damage would be behind the earplugs. Headphones can usually take quite a beating.
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I can feel the tactile change on buckling springs, MX Blues, and MX Clears quite easily. That's why I like them. Gives me confidence that I actually pressed the switch and it actuated. (Between the two MX switch types, I'd rather have the Clears, but they're not as widely available.)
MX Browns, on the other hand...the tactile bump is so insignificant that they might as well have made it linear, and I flat-out despise linear switches, especially long-throw ones like MX Blacks and Reds. (What the heck would a short-throw linear switch be like, you ask? Japanese arcade pushbuttons fit the bill in my book; still prefer Western-style microswitched buttons, but it feels a lot less loathesome with the Japanese buttons because you're bound to bottom out on the things anyway.)
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Well, the part sensitive to damage would be behind the earplugs. Headphones can usually take quite a beating.
Yes, but what I meant was that the headphones are open, and I can still hear the clicking through them, and my earplugs only attenuate a bit of noise, and even this is attenuated in such a way that it sounds as if you'd turned down the volume on life. (Musician's earplugs) Thus, I'd have to turn the volume up really high to not hear anything, I think. I'll try it now.... results will come in another post or edit.
EDIT: Alright, earplugs in, headphones blasting Toto Cutugno, speakers blasting some bassoon music, I feel totally deaf, awesome. :D
And typing while not looking reveals I mostly use the bottom to tell where I am, sometimes I miss to actuate even the spacebar. It seems buckling springs are too heavy, and the tactility doesn't really help me that much. :/
Not sure I like that. In any case, I don't feel like I'm bottoming out hard, so I don't think that's really a problem? I'm totally getting red switches, screw browns. :D
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I can feel the tactile change on buckling springs, MX Blues, and MX Clears quite easily. That's why I like them. Gives me confidence that I actually pressed the switch and it actuated. (Between the two MX switch types, I'd rather have the Clears, but they're not as widely available.)
MX Browns, on the other hand...the tactile bump is so insignificant that they might as well have made it linear, and I flat-out despise linear switches, especially long-throw ones like MX Blacks and Reds. (What the heck would a short-throw linear switch be like, you ask? Japanese arcade pushbuttons fit the bill in my book; still prefer Western-style microswitched buttons, but it feels a lot less loathesome with the Japanese buttons because you're bound to bottom out on the things anyway.)
This would be really interesting, an entire keyboard built out of Sanwa style switches.
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When using Blue's I obviously notice the bump but the click and sound make it more noticeable. Never tried any other tactile switch.
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Where do the Sanwas actuate? If it's closer to bottom, you may be able to cut Red springs, and then add massive o-rings?
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The cervix is the ultimate tactile bump.
Isn't that more analogous to bottoming out?
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Exactly what he was saying, I think. In other words, no need for tactile bump, just bottom out? :P
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The cervix is the ultimate tactile bump.
For me it's the tonsils.
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I find the same thing with my browns. Curious to see how the clears work for me once I get the stems swapped on my blacks.
I do like how effortless it is to type with the browns, but the tactile bump is just too slight to keep me from bottoming out. I can tell that something's there, but it's just too slight. I bought my clear board with the intention of swapping stems into a brown board, so if I get through my current stack of electronics repairs in the next couple weeks I'll swap half the board to clear stems to compare.
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Haha, keyboards and a couple pints, I can see it now. I really don't get over to Vancouver often enough, I'll have to venture over this summer. I think it's been 3 years now since I saw you last at a Whistler cruise?