geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Clickey on Sat, 16 July 2011, 05:29:12
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Hi all, I have to say I have been reading your posts and you have already been a huge help for me learning about mechanical keyboards. I just got my first (not including the ones in the 90s which I didnt even appreciate at the time) mechanical keyboard a week ago and not liking it much (Cherry MX G80 8113). I was really looking forward to NKRO for gaming but the cherry clears feel really stiff and after a couple hours typing, my hands feel pretty tired (especially when playing FPS games and SC2). I dont know if this is because the switches are worn or in bad shape or using the rubber domes all these years just made my fingers weak, but either way I am looking for other options.
I got cherry g80 8200 with clears and browns in the mail, and a compaq 11800 (mx browns) in the mail. Now I want to get a model M but have already overspent my budget because I was only intending to get the 1 keyboard to use, but got carried away :tongue:. So anyway I want to try a model M but the prices are pretty variable on ebay, so how much is a good deal on one? Or does it depend on which model in particular M it is?
I know buckling spring is supposed to be stiffer than clears but I figure I would try it anyway. I know some people find them in charity stores and garage sales for as low as $1 but I want to know what these things are actually worth (partly because if I dont like it, I would like to be able to resell it and break even). Also considering ML series because they have a shorter travel and maybe they would give you faster reaction time in games (are they a lot worse than MX in quality?). Thanks for any and all replies.
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I suspect that you probably will not like the Model M if you find clears too stiff... I have both and Model M definitely takes more force. And is louder. A great board with incredible feel, but if clears make your hands tired...
That said, if you think you want to try it give it a try... but I would try something no more than $30 because it sounds like you are a user and not a collector. Try to get a 1391401 if you can - IMHO they feel nicer than the later, "lesser" ones with non-detachable cords. That's just my opinion though and others have expressed the opinion that it's just slight production variations and that they're really not all that different. There's also a poster here who has some bolt modded '401s for sale for reasonable prices - hit up theferenc if you want to try one. I just recently bought an AEK2 from him with no problems and it is a nice board (but turned out to be not what I really wanted.)
I'm starting to become a **** for clears so if you decide you want to sell your G80-8200 w/ clears let me know :)
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Don't pay more than a new Unicomp costs.
The springs get mushy after decades of use. Battered examples are battered.
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The springs get mushy after decades of use. Battered examples are battered.
Huh, my experience is the opposite, the older ones feel stiffer as the metal springs get more brittle.
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You're right, really old Model M springs can feel stiff or gristly or mushy. There is a range of outcomes.
New Model M springs all feel about the same to me-- whether new old stock, new Unicomp boards, or new Unicomp spings in an old board.
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You can get model Ms real cheap on ebay but you better be willing to replace the springs. Otherwise you can find decent model Ms for 40-50$ from my experience.
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I've got a couple of bolt modded versions still left. I would happily sell either of them. One can be seen here: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?19626-Model-Ms-both-bolt-modded-and-not, but I'll let it go for $60 shipped, the other is in the office at the moment, so I can't post pictures, but it would be $65, in better shape.
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What is the benefit of "bolt modding"? Also can the older interfaces (4pin? 5pin?) be converted to PS2 or will it mess up the NKRO?
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I would definitely hop on thefernc's boltmodded keyboard dude! Most model M's on eBay bottom out around $45 shipped. While this is cheaper many of these bargain boards sell this low because they're worn out, dirty, or don't function properly.
$20 is a small premium for a board that is guaranteed to work, thoroughly cleaned, and modded with metal bolts for added stability and key tactility. Thefernc does this as a hobby and not for money and thoroughly finds enjoyment in tinkering with keyboards. You're guaranteed to receive an excellent quality modification.
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Thanks for the kind words, hella! I can also change the layout, if US ANSI isn't your thing. I can do ISO, at least the physical layout, and you can just map it in software to send exactly what you want.
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I found several so called model M that didnt look like any in Ripster's wiki and had diff serials. Like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370522983078&ssPageName=STRK:MEBOFFX:IT
and this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-IBM-Personal-Computer-5-pin-Clicky-Keyboard-/250849257933?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a67c7e9cd
Are they any good? Should I get one?
Thanks for the help so far guys, and thanks for the offer theferenc but I am not sure I will even like a model M yet, just want to get a cheap one to try it out.
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That first is a 122 key terminal keyboard, that won't function a regular PC without a decent amount of effort on your part. The second is for an XT Model F. I have one. Nice feeling, but much pingier. And also won't work without a lot of effort on your part.
This is the cheapest I can find on ebay currently that's actually buckling spring: http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Keyboard-52G9658-Clicky-Keyboard-Vintage-PS-2-USED-/200629286328?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2eb66ff5b8
Avoid the 71G models, as they are rubber dome, regardless of the use of the word "Clicky" in the description.
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The first keyboard you listed is a terminal board and the second you listed is a PC-XT.
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What is the benefit of "bolt modding"? Also can the older interfaces (4pin? 5pin?) be converted to PS2 or will it mess up the NKRO?
1. Model Ms have plastic rivets on the main assembly that often tend to pop out over time, which affects feel. Bolt modding solves that problem.
2. AT 5-din is really easily converted to PS/2 with a cheap passive adapter. However, make sure it's actually AT 5 din and not a terminal interface.
3. No Model M has NKRO. They're all 2KRO. So don't worry about NKRO. Model Fs on the other hand are NKRO.
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I disagree with the claim that model m's feel stiffer or require more force than clears.
The thing about clears (or really any cherry boards, but really the heavy springed ones) is that you're pushing down on a spring directly. If you're used to bottoming out, then you are compressing these springs to the maximum amount. The longer you hold it down it continues pushing its maximum force on you. This is why I find it annoying for gaming because the activation point on the two clears boards I have is below anything that you can feel, so I can't just ride the bottom of the bump. After awhile it gets pretty annoying.
With Model M's, the spring falls sideways which is what gives you the sound, the bump, and the activation (when it should happen, btw). Since it's basically bent over at that point it requires nothing to hold it down, and it doesn't matter if you bottom out or not at that point. So I'd say that they are easier to type on.
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I wish my Unicomp Model M was tougher to press. It is amazing but I want something even TOUGHER to press down. More resistance when I push on the click. It's what I prefer I guess. I must like pain! :rockon:
I don't know if something like that exists.