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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: junkyardcat on Fri, 22 July 2011, 17:13:05

Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: junkyardcat on Fri, 22 July 2011, 17:13:05: Hi gang,

So I received this new keyboard today. Cherry ML switches, the size of a laptop keyboard, plus there's a touchpad instead of the numeric keypad. Funny layout and small keys -but I have small hands anyway. It will fit in my bag and provide a common interface to all my computers.

Been suffering from RSI lately. Still at an early stage, but I'll be taking some actions to cure it asap - and getting a good quality keyboard is one of them.

Full review to come when I'll have ridden this board enough.

Cheers,

JYC

[ATTACH=CONFIG]21896[/ATTACH]
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: woody on Sat, 23 July 2011, 02:59:46: Be sure to report some feedback on the touchpad.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: mr626 on Sat, 23 July 2011, 20:36:12: Will be interested to hear what you think of the ML keys. I've got a Cherry G84-4100 on the way myself actually :-)
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: Mr. Perfect on Sun, 24 July 2011, 18:07:56: Quote from: mr626;386041
Will be interested to hear what you think of the ML keys.
Likewise. Most people here dismiss the ML switches since they are based on rubber domes, but they might still be a nice step up from the average board. Do you have other mechanicals to compare to?
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: mr626 on Sun, 24 July 2011, 19:22:28: I'll grab some $2AUD coins when I get my board :smile:
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 25 July 2011, 00:34:22: I like ML's fine. They're like low-profile ALPS. Similar care is required.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: mr626 on Mon, 25 July 2011, 01:44:47: Quote from: Oqsy;386600
I like ML's fine. They're like low-profile ALPS. Similar care is required.

What sort of 'care' are we taking here?
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: Arcanius on Mon, 25 July 2011, 19:33:57: I think he's referring to off-centre keypresses. :)
ML's bind easily, I've heard.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 25 July 2011, 22:00:36: The assemblies are more vulnerable to dust etc interfering with feel amd function. The design is quite similar to ALPS or NMB (space invaders). By "care" I mean keeping the board free of lint/dust and being willing to clean the innards if they do get funky. These, like ALPS, benefit from a very sparing lube. Even better than lube is 303 Aerospace. It leaves a "silky" surface on plastic without being oily or thick. Dry to the touch. Really the ideal result for keyswitch sliders.

I REALLY need to do a writeup on the process outside of these threads to help the brave souls who are willing to open NMB, ML, and ALPS switches to get them in peak condition :D
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: mr626 on Tue, 26 July 2011, 01:26:56: Quote from: Oqsy;387166
The assemblies are more vulnerable to dust etc interfering with feel amd function. The design is quite similar to ALPS or NMB (space invaders). By "care" I mean keeping the board free of lint/dust and being willing to clean the innards if they do get funky. These, like ALPS, benefit from a very sparing lube. Even better than lube is 303 Aerospace. It leaves a "silky" surface on plastic without being oily or thick. Dry to the touch. Really the ideal result for keyswitch sliders.

I REALLY need to do a writeup on the process outside of these threads to help the brave souls who are willing to open NMB, ML, and ALPS switches to get them in peak condition :D

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, a wiki would be tops. Who knows, I may end up being one of those 'brave souls' down the track.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: junkyardcat on Tue, 26 July 2011, 11:18:02: Quote from: woody;385794
Be sure to report some feedback on the touchpad.

The touchpad is quite small. It's on par with what you get on an average laptop, only stiffer. On quite a few laptops your finger will actually depress the plastic. Nothing will move here. But then the touchpad buttons are also a quite stiff, and that's no good. I can feel it at the end of the day. Perfectible ergonomics.

I went for a touchpad-equipped board because the trackball version was not available, and I wanted to test this setup on the train. I spend a lot of time on trains, and don't find it comfortable to work with the computer on my lap. I wanted to try with the keyboard on my lap, and the laptop on the small tablet that is often available. Will give it a try tomorrow.

Quote from: mr626;386041
Will be interested to hear what you think of the ML keys. I've got a Cherry G84-4100 on the way myself actually :-)

This new Cherry board brought memories of my old macintosh boards.
Somewhere between this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Macintosh_Plus_Extended_Keyboard.jpg
and this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Keyboard_II.jpg
if my fingers remember well enough.

Not totally unlike the Happy Hacking Keyboard Lite that I bought in 2002, either.

This new board is better than anything else I've used over the last years (laptops, cheap boards that came bundled with computers...), new (but pre-chiclet) Apple boards included. Here the keys will not click (unlike IBM Model M). You will need to fully depress the key, but then your fingers will be pushed back with just the right amount of force. On the new Apple boards, I'm left with the impression that I need to push too hard, and then I'm not pushed back enough in return for my efforts :)

So overall I'm very pleased with my non-fancy board, which bears point-of-sales aesthetics, and is purely functional.

Cheers,

JYC

Edit : this is the "why", for the touchpad. There are quite some situations where I would be unable to choose the height of the display - and I guess that the main problem with laptop ergonomics is that you can't take apart the keyboard and the screen and put them at different heights.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22451[/ATTACH]
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: woody on Wed, 27 July 2011, 03:38:44: Quote from: junkyardcat;387491
I went for a touchpad-equipped board because the trackball version was not available
I have G84-4400 and the small trackball is not something you'd want to use the whole day, so I think you made the right decision by getting the touchpad version. I've been partially tempted to try the 5500 at some point, just couldn't find it easily and ended with 4100.

Congrats on joining the "ML-satisfied" club and good luck with the trains.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: mr626 on Wed, 27 July 2011, 04:05:32: Thanks for the follow up posting. Sounds like the ML switches are pretty good :-)
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: junkyardcat on Thu, 28 July 2011, 04:14:57: These ML switches are good enough for my purposes, at least. And I can type my passwords on the first try !

With this external keyboard, I can put the laptop at a correct height, and I get to use the same keyboard no matter what computer I'm on. I'm very interested in the ergonomics around computers, so I'll dig this subject, make the changes I need.

When I'll have every other parameter under control, I might start swapping boards to find the one I prefer :) I think I already took the most essential step in using an external keyboard, and I might get smaller benefits for every further step I take in my quest of the ultimate keyboard. Still, it would be very silly of me *not* to better one of the essential aspects in my work environment.

Happy to have found this forum, lots of knowledgeable people around here !

Cheers,

JYC
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: woody on Tue, 02 August 2011, 11:53:28: Quote from: junkyardcat;388635
These ML switches are good enough for my purposes, at least. And I can type my passwords on the first try !

Exactly my thoughts on the MLs.
Have fun in the quest for the Holy [STRIKE]Grail[/STRIKE] Keyboard.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: mr626 on Tue, 02 August 2011, 17:36:14: Well, I got my Cherry G84-4100 yesterday. I'm very impressed with it- easily the best 'mini' keyboard I've used. I wish they would use ML switches on laptops!
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: False_Dmitry_II on Tue, 02 August 2011, 18:50:57: You could always get a random pos mx cherry board with a trackball or pad like that. Like the compaq or whatever.

NMB switches aren't that hard to open. I think it's easier than alps, or at least it requires much less acrobatics. I've swapped quite a few 'switches' around on this one because when I got it the 'v' and several other switches didn't click at all.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: Mr. Perfect on Tue, 02 August 2011, 22:45:19: Quote from: ripster;386402
No rubber in a ML. Sig>Wiki>Cherry>ML.
Show Image
(http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/cherry_ml_15.jpg)

I'm thinking of MY switches...

So why does the ML switch get no love around here again?
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: woody on Wed, 03 August 2011, 03:50:05: Quote from: Mr. Perfect;392008
So why does the ML switch get no love around here again?
Vogue. For a short-travel switch it does good job.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: mr626 on Wed, 03 August 2011, 05:06:14: Quote from: ripster;392013
Got those Aussie Aboriginals yet?

Not yet. I keep forgetting to actually make sure I get some coins in my change, which is the opposite to my normal habits.

Typing on the board now though (partly as practice for when I get my KBC Poker). It really is a great little board. Comparing it to my PLU with cherry blues I would estimate that the keys require slightly more force to register.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: Oqsy on Wed, 03 August 2011, 21:48:06: I got a new keyboard today based around the G84-4400 and I have to say that the switches in it (older model) feel much heavier than the ones in my 4100. I thought an ML was an ML, but there may well be spring variations out there that we don't know about. ML switches, compared to BS, MX, and ALPS, are uncharted territory :D

I should rip-o-meter the two boards and see what happens.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: Eclairz on Thu, 04 August 2011, 06:55:26: The only thing I don't like about my G84-4100 is the layout, if it were in the same layout as Tenkeyless then it would be an ideal compact keyboard.

You get used to off-centre key presses, I just never got used to keys right next to my enter key and arrow cluster.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: Daniel Beardsmore on Fri, 02 September 2011, 15:19:28: I'd like a G84-4400 simply because I like trackballs, but they have or have no Windows depending on Cherry's erratic specs.

The G84-5500 looks nifty too, but it appears to only be ISANSO, no real ISO layout ...

Too bad they can't get something so simple right, as I'd love a little keyboard like that with a trackball (or trackpad) on the right, for when I have additional computers at my desk and no room for a full-sized keyboard and no room to swing a mouse.
Title: Cherry G84-5500 (Cherry ML) received today
Post by: simon_C on Fri, 02 September 2011, 17:28:55: ive got some cheapo chinese clone keyboard at work (CNF Inc MINI-KEYBOARD) with the cherry ML switches. i rather like it and it provides a fair amount of desk space