The thought of perfection kills you.
Every switch or keyboard is fine in its own way, and by comparing each keyboard with something perfect in your head, you make your life miserable, since you will never be satisfied.
You always feel you are missing something by comparing. That feeling make you either a hoarder, trying to get every keyboard you can afford, or a bad loser, by choosing the worst that you can get, since in your mind all things are not perfect so get the worst can be very fulfilling.
3.Clear (Cherry G81-7910HPBUS)A G81-series keyboard with Clears ? ...
every try a topre? some say those those feel too rubber domey for their tastes...It IS a rubber dome. There are lots of different rubber dome and rubber dome based boards out there, although it seems the Qsenn is a pretty good one. Try a topre board if you can afford it, or a rubber dome Model M.
It IS a rubber dome. There are lots of different rubber dome and rubber dome based boards out there, although it seems the Qsenn is a pretty good one. Try a topre board if you can afford it, or a rubber dome Model M.it is a rubber dome with a spring underneath it and depending on the model some foam and i believe they refer to them as capacitive switches . I think they also do make a plain rubber dome HHKB called the Lite. i dont know how the rubber domes on it are though...
Be an early adopter, beat the herd. Choose rubber domes today! :)do you tend to bottom out when you type?
Seriourly though, from my experience with Cherry Browns, well, screw them. Blues, bucklings etc are too loud, and Topres are too expensive, so I'm settling on domes as well. I actually type faster on most domes than on the Browns.
Domes vary wildly in quality, there are some gems out there to be explored.
do you tend to bottom out when you type?I don't usually bottom out, but when typing at my full speed I do bottom out a lot, which is very noisy on the Filco, which is actually the reason I don't type at my full speed anymore.
also have you looked into reds (light liner), clears (very tactile), blacks (linear). youn might like blacks or clears as they have a stronger spring and should help with not bottoming out which should increase typing speed.
are browns noisy? i have only had first had experience with Black, Reds and Blues. no noise on the blacks/reds really unless you bottom out (going to give EK Firm Pads a try) and blues well there just loud because of the click mechanism. you could try the pads or O ring mod to quiet down your bottoming out.The Brown switches are silent (save for vibration) but the bottom-out and "top-out" noise (plus general keycap rattle) is substantial on the Filcos. Certainly a lot louder than any dome or scissor board I've used.
The Brown switches are silent (save for vibration) but the bottom-out and "top-out" noise (plus general keycap rattle) is substantial on the Filcos. Certainly a lot louder than any dome or scissor board I've used.are filcos plate mounted or pcb? also are you worried about the sound that much? Vs the better key/switch feedback?
i guess how i view it that other things are a lot louder...Soft music on speakers is pretty much ruined by the Filco clackfest.
Anyway I've seen some Korean pros rock a qsenn in sc2 so yeah man.
I don't usually bottom out, but when typing at my full speed I do bottom out a lot, which is very noisy on the Filco, which is actually the reason I don't type at my full speed anymore.
Clears indeed seem nice, but it doesn't seem there is even a proper tenkeyless Clears board available. Also, from what I've read, they are even noisier than Browns.
Go domes!
3.Clear (Cherry G81-7910HPBUS)
Since you're an SC2 player, you might want to know that oGsMC recently threw away his DT35 and is now using a fullsize Topre Realforce.
It IS a rubber dome. There are lots of different rubber dome and rubber dome based boards out there, although it seems the Qsenn is a pretty good one. Try a topre board if you can afford it, or a rubber dome Model M.
Yeah, the Filco is the only board I've ever had that's annoying sound-wise, and I've used a bunch of domes and scissors. Topres are too expensive so domes still win.
Soft music on speakers is pretty much ruined by the Filco clackfest.
Try the o-ring mod. Not only it eliminates the bottom-out noise, the right o-rings improve the feel as well (click "o-ring" in my sig for the exact specs to get).
Is it the soft Buna-N O-rings?. BTW are the o-rings similar to the soft landing pads? Do you need to physically do anything besides add the little rings around the switch? I'm interested since I find myself bottoming out a lot on the red switches.
Found a link on youtube.. so I'm watching now haha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79rWQ-CU9Lw
@Reason -
@MasterBlaster -
With all due respect, YOU'RE wrong. :)
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Pro_gear
oGs MC Jang Min Chul Topre Realforce
yeah sir , eat all the marketing garbage :) , i ve seen MC keyboard at last MLG he was and HomeStory cup and it was a Qsenn
@Reason -
I have to agree with you that I actually prefer RDs for Starcraft....but they're Topres! I highly recommend you give them a go before you 100% decide on the Qsenn. I think you'll also love the feel of the keycaps. I played SC2 for many months on my Filco brown, avoiding my Realforce because the black on light black keys were unreadable in low lighting, and thought that was the perfect keyboard for me.
After getting my blue keycaps and being able to read the legends on my Realforce I absolutely fell in love with the 55g Topres for SC2. It's pretty much perfect. I would highly recommend trying it out before you write off nicer keyboards.
@MasterBlaster -
With all due respect, YOU'RE wrong. :)
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Pro_gear
oGs MC Jang Min Chul Topre Realforce
So, yeah. :) I think July also uses a Realforce but he's not listed on this page. Notice that much less than half of the players listed here use the Qsenn. Again, it was popular because it was cheap, available, and functional. It's an ok board if you love it be my guest but there's really nothing special about it.Show Image(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6027/5947167561_8c14258254.jpg)
yeah sir , eat all the marketing garbage :) , i ve seen MC keyboard at last MLG he was and HomeStory cup and it was a Qsenn
The first obvious question is: how exactly are you finding time to actually LOOK at your keyboard during games of SC2?
The 2nd obvious question is: why?
Ohhh I just realized that I wrote down the wrong model number for the Cherry Clear Keyboard I've bought for $40 on ebay
It was G80-8113LRCUS-0 not the G81... I thought it felt nice at first but it was really mushy... and stiff (almost as stiff as the Model M but without that nice snappy feeling)
I really really want to try the Topre... it's just too expensive :(
oh my those blue keycaps look sexy :eek:
I mouse left-handed. Due to putting my right hand on the left side of the keyboard all of my regular touch typing knowledge goes out the window. I've picked up a good amount of touch typing ability for having my right hand on that side of the board and RARELY have to look at my board but when I do, it's absolutely critical that I can position my hand instantly. I average around 120 SC2 APM, spiking to 250-300 in battles so it doesn't hurt me that much. It's most often when I do something like have to hit "I" for an Immortal or "P" for Patrol (I should really remap those) and then have to put my hand back into its "home" position.
Sounds like using the Grid keyboard mappings for SC2 would help you a fair bit.
I have no idea what the DT35 is like and not likely to find out soon, BUT it does seem to be waterproof, :wink:
The QL's keyboars, likely the first rubber dome, was marketed as spill proof, and was 27 years ago...Show Image(http://pc-museum.com/gallery/rcm-039-big.jpg)Show Image(http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/images/08-10-04-sinclair-ql-open.jpg)
Seems to me like these guys are trying out a bunch of different cherry boards and then claiming that all mech boards ever are all crap.
And then proceeding to use not even one of the generally recognized as good rubber domes here.
Did you try any alps? Space invaders? Heck, fujitsu peerless? Anything else?
Yeah, I read descriptions of it being a standard rubber dome style switch, except using a mebrane instead of a PCB.
You haven't tried complicated white ALPS. I was not satisfied until I tried them then my world changed.
I think you should learn how to read before posting your own biased opinion.
Next time, don't just read the title and post a hateful comment.
With a single kind of switches you can made them dampened/undampened clicky or not, and the tactility and be also adjusted just bending the leaf spring.
I think you should learn how to read before posting your own biased opinion.
I've tried black alps and I didn't say anything about all mech boards being crap.
I stated that they simply didn't suit me. (I even mentioned that I really like the Model M.)
I'm actually thinking about buying a topre pretty soon if the 87s come back in stock on EK.
Next time, don't just read the title and post a hateful comment.
I haven't seen a dismantled photos of both, but from this photo doesn't look as a rubber dome.
The PCjr keyboard has generated a fair bit of controversy. IBM calls the 62-key unit "a cordless, portable, hand-held device [utilizing] full travel, carbon contract/rubber dome technology for long wear and reliability.' Critics say it is a cheap, "Chiclet' keyboard, unworthy of a "real' computer, with the wireless business a superfluous gimmick. Who is right? Ask the blind man over there by the elephant.
...
Game players, slouchers, and other relaxed individuals will find the cordlessness a godsend. There is nothing to stretch or break. Tabletop users have a choice of two tilt angles with two little flip-down legs on the underside of the keyboard. The dust-and spill-resistance should be quite high, since the entire interior is covered by a solid rubber sheet with molded-in domes.
Glued to the underside of each dome is a little piece of carbon. When you press a key, it squishes the dome, the carbon makes contact with the underlying printed circuit card, and the keystroke is sensed by the keyboard microprocessor, which transmits the information to the system unit--simple, reliable, and cheap.
You silly goose. You didn't even try topre.
Well from my experience, most new Rubber Dome keyboards feel pretty serviceable the first day of use. The main problem is the longevity, If you are heavy typist they wear very quickly. Even the higher quality domes in boards like Keytronic wear down much faster than any mechanical out there. Mechanical keyboards have consistency which is far more reliable than a first day feel.
Well from my experience, most new Rubber Dome keyboards feel pretty serviceable the first day of use. The main problem is the longevity, If you are heavy typist they wear very quickly. Even the higher quality domes in boards like Keytronic wear down much faster than any mechanical out there. Mechanical keyboards have consistency which is far more reliable than a first day feel.As The Solutor said (he's right for once) mech switches also wear. Also, they are much more expensive, so replacing a board is much less practical.
This is completely untrue.
At least the tactile switches will wear surely depending on the number of activation, while the RD becomes mushy only if poor materials are used.
On heavy usage patterns a lot of RD will beat easily most of the tactile microswitch keyboard, with the exclusion of buckling springs ones.
*snipI'm not giving the impression that a mech switch board is immortal and consistant forever. However in general I would believe that a Mechanical board would last longer than your general run of the mill RD keyboard. Sure their are standouts like Keytronic and IBM M4s, but I would venture that most keyboard fall into the poor quality zone.
*snipThe idea that you won't have to replace a mechanical keyboard often enough for it to become an issue.
One of my rubber dome keyboards (CKS) is rated better than cherry switches:
Conductive elastomer rubber designed for 60 million cycles
Some manufacturers have more believable ratings than others. Even the Cherry rating of 50 million is a bit dubious (once it was 20 million for tactile switches, then it was suddenly bumped up to 50...)
And even with the correct number we have still to understand what they mean.
What's lasting 20 or 50k actuations ? The contact, the whole switch ? What are the parameters taken in account ?
When someone says a "led last 100k hours" he should mean that the LED will still emit the 50% of the initial luminous flux, we have an universally accepted methodology.
What a bout the switches ?
A brown that act like a red is a working switch or not ?
And even with the correct number we have still to understand what they mean.
What's lasting 20 or 50k actuations ? The contact, the whole switch ? What are the parameters taken in account ?
When someone says a "led last 100k hours" he should mean that the LED will still emit the 50% of the initial luminous flux, we have an universally accepted methodology.
What a bout the switches ?
A brown that act like a red is a working switch or not ?
[STRIKE]It will take 489 days.[/STRIKE]
I might have exaggerated: 207 days.
You guys make these claims look scientific.
Yeah I like scientific and guessing in the same sentence.
I wonder if that Korean oil prolongs the life of MX switches.
I'm okay with guessing, but you have to admit the part when you corrected prd was a little bit funny.
It is the way how you corrected prd.
The thought of perfection kills you.
Every switch or keyboard is fine in its own way, and by comparing each keyboard with something perfect in your head, you make your life miserable, since you will never be satisfied.
You always feel you are missing something by comparing. That feeling make you either a hoarder, trying to get every keyboard you can afford, or a bad loser, by choosing the worst that you can get, since in your mind all things are not perfect so get the worst can be very fulfilling.
Damn that is deep man!
MY WHOLE LIFE IS A LIE! My keyboards make me empty inside! (*slits writst, hangs self, glad he bought the TG3 BL 82 w/blood spatter guard).
lol interesting thread. Logged back in for the first time in a while to say that I have settled back on my ol' 1st gen Logitech G15 as well.
I still have a Razer Blackwidow and tried out a couple Filcos. I did like the feel of the mechanicals a bit. Black switch was interesting but in the end I think there was so much hype I read that it was almost as if I was forcing myself to deal with the awkwardness of the mechanical switches and telling myself that it would be better off in the long run. Well, I gave it a few months and it wasn't so.
Hindsight is 20/20 but I didn't actually have any problems with my G15 in the first place. I type just as fast, 200+ wpm and have fewer errors.
So in the end I'd have to say there's a lot to like about mech keyboards but to everyone who tells unaware people they are miles better, let's just keep these realistic yeah? Personal preference in the end, I suppose.
7+ years and still going strong; feels like home.Show Image(http://www.gammon.com.au/images/g15_keyboard.gif)