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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: SmallFry on Thu, 04 August 2011, 21:39:08

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 04 August 2011, 21:39:08

I have a green ALPS keyboard (click on the underlined keyboard in my sig). I was wondering if it has vintage ALPS or Regular ALPS, or isnt there a way to tell without dissasembling a switch?

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 04 August 2011, 21:48:07

ZKB-3 Parts board... Stripped all the keys from it cuz the one in my sig had pad prints this keyboard had nice durable doubleshots etc they are the exact same switch...https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/t-PPd8UKw8Q2QQUWCqN072W5bvnumtNjrv-AJ5LK0Z8?feat=directlink (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/t-PPd8UKw8Q2QQUWCqN072W5bvnumtNjrv-AJ5LK0Z8?feat=directlink)

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 04 August 2011, 22:18:34

I realize that, but my parents get mad when I take stuff apart... it usually doesnt end up back together:P... That 'board is a 1985 Zenith... It has an exact date, although I don't remember it off the top of my head.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 04 August 2011, 22:26:16

Definitely vintage ALPS.  Greens are light.

Generally speaking (but not always the case as there were many NOS switches used well into the 90's and beyond), colored ALPS were 80's-early 90's and whites and blacks were later.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 04 August 2011, 22:26:51

Quote from: ripster;393325

What terrible parents.

I encourage my kid to take apart anything.  No wonder American Engineering is going downhill.

Ditto.
If you can't take it apart, you don't own it.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: False_Dmitry_II on Thu, 04 August 2011, 23:46:51

Quote from: didjamatic;393330

Ditto.
If you can't take it apart, you don't own it.

I'd like to see you try that motto on a hybrid. Good luck

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 05 August 2011, 08:19:13

Quote from: didjamatic;393330

Ditto.
If you can't take it apart, you don't own it.

hehe I started dismantling and repairing the electric car model of a friend, and I've never stopped

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: SmallFry on Fri, 05 August 2011, 08:45:35

I'm not sure they're too thrilled about this site, as it encourages me to take things apart... *devious laugh* MWHAHAHAHA

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 05 August 2011, 09:16:09

There are things that are easy to take apart and put together again, and there are things that you should never fiddle with, even as an adult.

When I was a kid (about 12 I think), I took apart my Kodak Instamatic camera just to see how it worked, but I never managed to put it together in a working state again. It was just too difficult for my age.
Many new slimmed electronic products these days are not bolted together -- they are made from thin, flimsy pieces of plastic and metal that are glued together! You may be able to dissolve the glue by heating it gently with a heat gun... but there are so many things that can go wrong.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Fri, 05 August 2011, 10:29:13

Is there such a thing as white Monterey/SMK? I think I've got keyboard with such.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: TexasFlood on Fri, 05 August 2011, 10:36:42

Quote from: woody;393525

Is there such a thing as white Monterey/SMK? I think I've got keyboard with such.

Never heard of one but who knows, got any pictures?  Here is the blue monterey:
(http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/swmontray_11.jpg)

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Fri, 05 August 2011, 10:44:28

Quote from: TexasFlood;393528

Never heard of one but who knows, got any pictures?  Here is the blue monterey:

Show Image

(http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/swmontray_11.jpg)

Yep, looks the same - that's how I decided it's Monterey, only with white stem. Funny shape they got on the stem top.

I am to buy soon white balance card, and then I could take pictures.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: TexasFlood on Fri, 05 August 2011, 10:49:17

Quote from: woody;393532

Yep, looks the same - that's how I decided it's Monterey, only with white stem. Funny shape they got on the stem top.

I am to buy soon white balance card, and then I could take pictures.

These are supposed to be older alps that looks similar:
(http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/tnk001_042.jpg) (http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/appleadj_042.jpg)
And omron, kinda similar:
(http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/Omron_Switch1.jpg)

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 08:17:49

Quote from: TexasFlood;393534

These are supposed to be older alps that looks similar:

Show Image

(http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/tnk001_042.jpg)

Show Image

(http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/appleadj_042.jpg)

And omron, kinda similar:

Show Image

(http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/Omron_Switch1.jpg)

Yup, not like these, but like the blue Monterey.

And .. bad luck. I couldn't find white balance card to buy. Meh, some more time to lose on searching.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 12:55:41

Quick'n'dirty shots follow. Victim under scrutiny is A9M0330, first Apple ADB keyboard sold with the Apple IIgs.

The white Monterey-likes, along with the funniest doubleshot keycaps. To achieve curved keyboard shape and hip keycaps they went really overboard with the keycap inserts and the design. Mighty fine doubleshot quality, though. Times like that seem gone forever.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23430[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23431[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23432[/ATTACH]

Almost lucky serial number:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23433[/ATTACH]

As far as I know, this keyboard model was originally made in Japan (with orange ALPS switches??), then in Taiwan probably for the usual manufacture cost reduction. This one is Taiwanese, considered of the lesser quality. The white Monterey-like switch is tactile and very softly clicking, the latter probably unintentional due to the switch inner workings.

EDIT: The soft clicking is audible only on bare switch. With the keycap on it is lost in the racket.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: mr_a500 on Sat, 06 August 2011, 13:02:37

Weird. I thought it would be similar to the Apple IIc keyboard (which has the same "funky" keycaps), but they have different switches (unknown switch with white, Cherry-like "+") and they're not doubleshot.

I never liked that keycap shape. What were they thinking?

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 13:04:48

Apple IIc shots coming soon ...
Don't switch the channel.

BTW, Apple IIc has variety of switches, too.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: mr_a500 on Sat, 06 August 2011, 13:08:16

Quote from: woody;394197

Apple IIc shots coming soon ...
Don't switch the channel.

BTW, Apple IIc has variety of switches, too.

I've got two Apple IIc computers. One is the French Canadian model. They both have the same switches. I think I've seen some pictures (ripster trademarked pictures?) of an Apple IIc with yellow ALPS though.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: didjamatic on Sat, 06 August 2011, 13:48:06

Quote from: False_Dmitry_II;393356

I'd like to see you try that motto on a hybrid. Good luck

I don't own one and won't buy one until I can fix one so it holds true.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 14:21:14

Apple ADB keyboard M0116. Bought NIB from GH/DT member.

This keyboard is known to be produced with orange and pink ALPS.

Dye sub keycaps. Tactile but not clicky.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23439[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23440[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23441[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23442[/ATTACH]

Prize question - are those pink ALPS?

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 14:25:33

Next in line - M0487, a.k.a. Apple Keyboard II.

Buckling rubber sleeve. Probably membrane under the slider, but I forgot already - it was quite some time ago I opened it for sanitizing.

Decals. Notice the A9M0330 -> M0116 -> M0487 change in keycaps?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23443[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23444[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23445[/ATTACH]

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 14:26:46

Quote from: ripster;394246

What's the difference between Orange and Blacks?

Not sure I have blacks. But some more orange follow ...

Quote

Got Nickels?

Nope.

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 14:33:00

Apple IIc model A2S4000, US version. Orange ALPS, which I mistakenly remembered as being more orange. "Taxi yellow" now I understand.

Tactile and clicky, kinda fun to type on.

BTW, Ripster, feel free to color-balance the pictures if possible - I don't have software for that. The closer the shots, the more incorrect the colors as noticed from the white sheet of paper.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23446[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23447[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23448[/ATTACH]

Comparison with the M0116. Soo ... is the M0116 pink ALPS?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23449[/ATTACH]

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 14:35:31

Quote from: ripster;394251

Euros?

Just some random small change.

Check this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_lev), but I don't believe the 1g and 2g weights. What are you interested in?

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 14:38:31

Apple IIc A2S4000, International version.

TERRIBLE keyboard. Perhaps removing the rubber mat could help, or so I've read. Don't know what switch type this is.
Not enough time to dismantle it and check.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23452[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23453[/ATTACH]

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 14:40:13

Apple IIc A2S4100, US version.

Orange ALPS.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23454[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23455[/ATTACH]

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 14:43:35

Apple IIc+ A2S4500.

Surprise. Back to pink ALPS?

Again the spacebar differs in yellowing from the rest of the keys. Perhaps keys are PBT and spacebar/case ABS.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23456[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23457[/ATTACH]

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: TexasFlood on Sat, 06 August 2011, 15:13:10

Those last couple are definitely ALPS, look more orange than pink to me but hard to tell really.  The earlier one must be Monterey/Chicony as Ripster said.  I expected to see something similar yet somehow different but except for color that sure looks the same to me.
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=23459)

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 15:19:30

Quote from: TexasFlood;394277

Those last couple are definitely ALPS, look more orange than pink to me but hard to tell really.

Yep. Except for the white Monterey-like, the rest look like genuine complicated ALPS.

Quote

The earlier one must be Monterey/Chicony as Ripster said.  I expected to see something similar yet somehow different but except for color that sure looks the same to me.

At least now it's known there has been white Monterey/SMK.

My question is - if the yellowish are Orange ALPS, are the reddish Pink ALPS?

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: False_Dmitry_II on Sat, 06 August 2011, 15:27:03

I'm guessing all the Apple IIc stuff is pre-ADB. I guess if you wanted to use them on a modern board, you could try to solder-desolder them into something newer or something.

Quote from: didjamatic;394223

I don't own one and won't buy one until I can fix one so it holds true.

If you're still around in another 30 years, you'll have alot of learning to do or give that up. Or just cling to rapidly more rare gas for fuel. (I think it'll go rare just from demand going down once usable alternatives are mainstream. Cue ripster curve.)

Title: Vintage ALPS vs Regular ALPS
Post by: woody on Sat, 06 August 2011, 15:31:09

Quote from: False_Dmitry_II;394285

I'm guessing all the Apple IIc stuff is pre-ADB.

Heh, the keyboard is integrated into the computer.

Quote

I guess if you wanted to use them on a modern board, you could try to solder-desolder them into something newer or something.

The keyboard PCB sports parallel interface with simple signalling, so one with spare time could make himself adapter to PS2 or USB.