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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: RFC3251 on Fri, 05 August 2011, 12:40:18
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I was wondering how many people would prefer keyboards without the "Windows keys", especially the one sitting between the left Ctrl and Alt.
I would definitely pay (a little) extra for a keyboard with an empty space there, but it seems that, currently, no keyboard manufacturer has models with that "feature". Even the ones selling "gaming" keyboards usually just disable or remap that key to something else, instead of leaving an empty space.
Maybe if enough people "suggest" it, some keyboard manufacturer (Steelseries, Rosewill, WASD, Cherry, etc.) will consider adding a "winkeyless" model or two to their lineup.
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I just hate the look of the windows keys on my filco, its ruins the low profile kinda look kinda like its all neat then all a sudden you see some horrid bubble looking keys on a £108 keyboard.
Thats why i got flat windows keys coming as well blanks:).
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Windows Keys are awesome, specially the Topre ones.
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I couldn't live without my windows key, and yes I play plenty of games and it hasn't been an issue in a very long time.
I do however dislike the bubble look, which is why mine is like all the rest of the keys on my KB - no bubble.
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There's always this:
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/cus101usenon.html
though I'm sure most people wouldn't even consider the Unicomp since it looks like it's straight out of the 80s.
I really don't see a problem with the meta key itself. I think the shortcuts are incredibly useful, and I use them all the time. The only unappealing thing about it I see are the horrendous bubble keys, which can be replaced on almost any keyboard. I see no need to get rid of the key and leave a blank spot there, and I'm sure manufacturer's wouldn't even consider it, as the average PC user simply doesn't give a damn.
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I use the Windows key shortcuts all the time, especially in Windows 7. If I didn't have the Windows key, I would probably have to remap Caps Lock.
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I use windows key (#e, #d, #r mostly. Or even # followed by a string you'd like to search in Windows 7). Its a must.
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Win+L
Win+E
and especially Win+D are all awesome shortcuts I'd rather not go without
That being said, its dumb to just flat out get rid of the key (of which I can make a strong argument to the merit of getting rid of Pause/Break, Scroll Lock, and/or the Menu/App keys before getting rid of the Windows key). My 6Gv2 replaced the left window key for a Fn key to accesses the media keys mapped to the F keys, so its completely harmless to accidental presses yet can still serve a very useful purpose.
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In Win7, If you pin your commonly used applications to the start menu, hitting Win + will launch that application or switch to it.
It cuts down immensely on alt-tabbing or moving your mouse (ugh) to the start menu.
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if it's just the bubble that you don't like, use a key from an older board that doesn't have the bubble if you have a Cherry board, or if you have a Filco or Das, I'm told that WASD keys are perfectly interchangeable so you could just get a blank key the same profile to put in its place. I can't confirm or deny that though - I just got my WASD today, and I have no Filco or Das.
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I still like Alt F4 the best.
Is that considered trolling?
BTW, this (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/126449)should be required reading for any GH forum member using Windows.
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Cherry's key caps are different than Filco/Das/Steelseries/Kinesis. Either you replace individual keys with the keys of the same style or you replace all at once to a full set in the other style. If you mix styles, then your keys will have different heigths.
I don't like the bubble even under Windows. I use mostly Linux, and I don't like the Windows logo under Linux.
What irks me the most, though are that different keyboard manufacturers have different sizes for keys to the right of the space bar, and that means that they put the Alt Gr in different positions. If all of the keys to the right of space are 1.25, then all is well: the key is below . (period) and I find that to be the ideal position for hitting with my thumb. Older Cherry G8x-1800 and G8x-11800 without Windows keys also put the Alt Gr key under period, but newer revisions with Windows keys have Alt Gr one step too far to the left and I often hit the right Windows key instead on these keyboards.
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I actually like the bubble ... and I love the Windows key for sure. Except #d lately, as I use RocketDock and it hides together with everything else. But I'd never give my key up for anything else
I can do without the bubble though as it clearly steers way off the design compared to the rest of the keys.
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Most keyboards have a Windows key on each side of the spacebar. You don't lose any shortcuts by getting rid of one of them. Personally, I find the one on the left very annoying, and I never seem to use it on desktop systems.
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Apparently the bubble is actually mandated by Microsoft... not sure why they want to make our keyboards uglier, but I can't figure half the stuff they do.
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Only mandated if you want the silly windows logo, and who needs that? Super/Cmd/random symbol are all good enough for me.
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True, but most people don't buy custom keycaps for their keyboards, and most new keyboards have the windows logo on them, ergo most keyboards in use that are reasonably recent have bubbly keys on them.
Of course, most new keyboards are also rubber domes, too, so, whatever...
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Yeah, I'd say most of my boards are all too old to have win keys. Then stepping up in frequency and they are adb boards.
I've remapped right control to windows in registry for those boards that have none of their own. I just never use that control.
You could always rip that cap off and do something to that switch if it's that annoying.
It would be far too expensive for them to actually make a single board without a win key in that specific spot, just because one guy doesn't like it.
I'd say that that menu key is the most useless key of all.
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Haha I find myself using the menu key a lot when navigating with the arrow keys. A lot of poorly built apps assume you're going to right click on things.
My Northgate Omnikey Evo has a Windows button without the bubble. Cheap printing is already flaking off after a year too.
I propose ScrollLock as being more useless in a Windows-centric world.
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Yeah, sometimes menu key is more convenient than right clicking the mouse. Windows key is practically useless in Linux, at least I haven't found a use for it. I can't remember ever using the scroll lock key... for anything.
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The Windows key is also perplexingly important when you plug your Windows keyboard into a Mac.
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I have no use for Pause, and only use Scroll Lock at work when working with spreadsheets. PrintScrn could be ditched too, really, assuming a screen dump shortcut with one of the modifiers remained.
Getting rid of the antiquated 3-key island could be a nice improvement in appearance.
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ah, but if you did that, I'm sure that someone would try to "improve" a keyboard, or just make it smaller, by reconfiguring the nav block to make it thinner, and smushing the arrow keys over like they do on all those rack-width boards. Which would be fine if we hadn't all learned to type on standard 104-key boards...
Edit: I guess they were actually 101-key boards, weren't they?
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Haha I find myself using the menu key a lot when navigating with the arrow keys.
This.
Sure, it doesn't happen a lot and figured first out what the heck it did 1-2 years ago. The Right Ctrl is basically useless to me, and I really only knew
it was there now that I look (deja-vu wtf). Then again I rarely navigate at that area except when using the menu key.
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I wouldn't own a keyboard without them. At the very least I need the one to the left of space. The one on the right is optional.
I use lots of the Windows bindings, including the new Win-1 - Win-9 for launching apps pinned to the taskbar. And in emacs I have commands tied to tons of additional key. I would miss this key more in emacs than anything else.
I totally don't get the dome thing. Is there a practical value there? Or is it just stylish amongst those "in the know"?
I'm not attached to it having a blatant Microsoft logo. I don't really want a penguin there either, though. Just a "Super" would be nice. And Hyper foe the right-menu key.
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Apparently the bubble is actually mandated by Microsoft... not sure why they want to make our keyboards uglier, but I can't figure half the stuff they do.
Microsoft doesn't even put the bubble on some of their own keyboards:
http://xahlee.org/emacs/ms_keyboard/ms_natural_keyboard_4000.html
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I would definitely pay (a little) extra for a keyboard with an empty space there, but it seems that, currently, no keyboard manufacturer has models with that "feature".
For me, it's the other way around. I would have to pay extra to get a new Unicomp keyboard with Windows keys, relying instead on model M keyboards, one purchased new, the others second-hand at thrift shops.
I would not mind having Windows keys on my keyboard, as long as they were somewhere out of the way (and yet still near enough to be usable as shift keys).
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This is the Windows key to get. They went to all the trouble of writing it into the Vista Certification specs and ended up shipping a full color Windows Key on only one keyboard.
Wow, when did this happen? Luckiest(?) person to get that one for sure. I mean, it doesn't look bad or something, the gray around it though ...
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Microsoft doesn't even put the bubble on some of their own keyboards:
http://xahlee.org/emacs/ms_keyboard/ms_natural_keyboard_4000.html
There's an exception to the requirement for keycaps under a certain thickness.
http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/e/1/de1e0c8f-a222-47bc-b78b-1656d4cf3cf7/HardwareStartButtonV102.doc
Don't ask me why I was bored enough to look that up.
You know, next time I start getting depressed at how much my job sucks and how little difference I feel that I'm making in the world despite feeling like I'm on a treadmill, I'll just remind myself I'm not the poor bastard who had to type things like "easily discoverable actuator" and "The Hardware Start Button creates and deepens affinity with Windows*Vista while complementing the brand platforms and products of hardware manufacturers" without snickering or filling out a buzzword bingo card.
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I just wish 'they' could be more creative, and come up with a standardized non-branded key name. It's stupid to have hardware try so much to match the OS.
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AEKII keys are dye sub?
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Apple dye-sub looks like a prison tattoo.
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Apple dye-sub looks like a prison tattoo.
Dude,
that's just plain NASTY :)
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Join the club. I've been laid to rest. I'm done with investing in other companies.