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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: brandonspeed2006 on Wed, 10 August 2011, 22:58:28

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: brandonspeed2006 on Wed, 10 August 2011, 22:58:28

I currently have a Microsoft Sidewinder X6, it's super noisy. I went to Best Buy and opened a few and tried a few, not sure what the models were, been a while, but they all were really noisy, the Logitech Illuminated was the only low profile wasn't very noisy, but the space bar was pretty loud. Just looking for some general suggestions, my best option I've found thus far is this, and I really don't want to resort to this, but it's not bad, very quiet and sleek in my opinion. http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/wired-keyboard-600/ANB-00001 (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/wired-keyboard-600/ANB-00001) Thanks in advance everyone.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: redpill on Wed, 10 August 2011, 23:33:33

Topre Realforce 87U Silent
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se070s

That is if you have $345 burning a hole in your pocket :p

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: pitashen on Thu, 11 August 2011, 01:57:37

sounds like this is your best bet:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23859[/ATTACH]

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: liist on Thu, 11 August 2011, 02:07:07

[video=youtube;-Kh7RWDRp8M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kh7RWDRp8M[/video]

Far quieter and way cooler than the cheapo Microsoft. Sure beats a touchscreen keyboard on a small ass phone, that's for sure.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Thu, 11 August 2011, 05:37:51

I can type fairly quietly on Cherry MX whites or blacks.  Pretty much any other mechanical keyboard save for the aforementioned Topre is going to be louder.  You could get away with browns I suppose if you can type on them without bottoming out. (I can't.)

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Thu, 11 August 2011, 07:39:06

Don't bother listening to the Cherry switch or Topre guys. Any of these are going to be noisier than the X6, or indeed most half-decent rubber-dome keyboards.

The biggest non-keyboard-changing change you can make is to buy some damping pads - this will reduce the banging on the desk. Put two at the back. The X6 is pretty flat anyway and putting in a low-profile pad isn't going to destroy the typing comfort.
Something like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flatfeet-Sorbothane-audiophile-isolation-supports-/230633650425
(It can be hard to get hold of very small sorbothane feet, and these have worked the best for me)

As for more major changes, try a switch to a scissor-action keyboard. In conjunction with pads like the above, it'll get you pretty much the quietest possible action on a desktop. One of my faves in terms of practicality, comfort and action is the Logitech Illuminated.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: HaveANiceDay on Thu, 11 August 2011, 08:42:29

I find most scissor switches to be very quiet.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Thu, 11 August 2011, 08:54:51

Quote from: arpod;396941

Don't bother listening to the Cherry switch or Topre guys. Any of these are going to be noisier than the X6, or indeed most half-decent rubber-dome keyboards.

Probably true, however, typing style can have a lot of effect.  I use a board w/ PCB mounted clears at work and it's quieter than the new rubber-dome Dell that the person in the next cube up has... because she bottoms out hard on every keystroke.  Of course, you *have* to bottom out somewhat on a RD keyboard otherwise your key presses won't register - which is the biggest argument in my mind for moving away from one (and the reason that I ended up here in the first place... I was starting to have some discomfort in my hands after long sessions of typing on a typical employer-provided keyboard.)

I was also making the ASSumption that the OP was not only looking for a quiet keyboard but a mechanical one as well, otherwise why post to GH?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Thu, 11 August 2011, 11:07:13

Quote from: N8N;396953

I was also making the ASSumption that the OP was not only looking for a quiet keyboard but a mechanical one as well, otherwise why post to GH?

Maybe because the description for this section is:

Quote

dome, scissor, capacitive, mechanical, buckling-spring, laser, membrane, hall-effect, etc

And yeah, I'm with arpod, don't listen to the Cherry guys, especially not the ones who claim Browns are quiet. Even if you don't really bottom out they still produce quite a bit of noise, unless you type very gently. They are louder than most rubber domes and much louder than scissors.

Scissors are the quietest switches in my experience. I've had an UltraX and a Trust Isla, both of which are quiet. They feel much better than the typical $10 rubber dome as well, and don't cost a whole lot more. The feel isn't optimal though.. if feel is important you should probably seek out a high quality scissor.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: SBI on Thu, 11 August 2011, 11:36:07

Quote from: Johannes;397027

UltraX

This came to mind when I read the title. I'm not a big fan, but I used to have one of these at the office where noise was an issue, and after a bit of hitting it too hard it turned out to be quite the ok keyboard. Especially at it's price, it's not a bad deal.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Mazora on Thu, 11 August 2011, 11:48:08

Well, I have a Filco Majestouch with Cherry MX-Red switches. WIth the hard-landing pad from EliteKeyboards, it is silent.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Thu, 11 August 2011, 12:01:58

Quote from: Mazora;397057

Well, I have a Filco Majestouch with Cherry MX-Red switches. WIth the hard-lending pad from EliteKeyboards, it is silent.

Please stop spreading misinformation. Look up "silent" in the dictionary if necessary. We don't need more Das terminology :P

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Mazora on Thu, 11 August 2011, 12:06:14

what's das?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Thu, 11 August 2011, 12:33:06

A phony company that calls Browns "silent".

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: SBI on Thu, 11 August 2011, 13:22:18

Quote from: Johannes;397089

A phony company that calls Browns "silent".

Well, apart from the product name itself, they're quite honest :D

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Thu, 11 August 2011, 13:23:03

Yeah. There's already a not inconsiderable noise from just the return action from the switch - which is probably the main component of the sound from a Brown'd key. It's not every time most reasonably fast typists  bottom out a switch, and no matter how you configure the keycaps (which is one of the reasons I was sceptical / dismissive of the O-rings in the other thread) you're not going to damp out the actual sound coming from the switch to any significant degree.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: magictoaster on Thu, 11 August 2011, 13:25:12

Well they do say "Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent sports high-end, mechanical key switches that click less than its cousin, the Model S Professional. This quieter model is ideal for people working in an open environment or for workers who need to type while talking on the phone. ". It's kind of a stretch to say "Silent"... Typical marketing hyperbole.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: SBI on Thu, 11 August 2011, 13:37:59

Quote from: magictoaster;397115

Well they do say "Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent sports high-end, mechanical key switches that click less than its cousin, the Model S Professional. This quieter model is ideal for people working in an open environment or for workers who need to type while talking on the phone. ". It's kind of a stretch to say "Silent"... Typical marketing hyperbole.

That's exactly my point though. I mean, the product discription would be considerably less misleading if it wasn't called silent. They're not being phony when saying that the browns are less clicky and quieter. A drill is quieter than a jackhammer, doesn't make it silent ;)

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: magictoaster on Thu, 11 August 2011, 14:24:37

At least they do not ping... (now this thread is really going to get derailed!)

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: theferenc on Thu, 11 August 2011, 14:28:43

I'm sorry, but my HHKB and the RealForce I recently bought for my sister in law are much quieter than the Dell keyboard she had, the Logitech scissor switch her work gave her, or the chicklet POS on her Sony laptop.

Be dismissive all you want, but they are actually quite a bit quieter, both the way I type and the way she types. Then again, some scissor switch boards are just loud. The one that comes on some HP laptops is almost as loud as my Model M (bolt and floss modded, admittedly).

Topres, as so many here like to point out every chance they get, ARE rubber domes. So why would they be any louder than a rubber dome board, of which they are an exemplar?

And I've heard dampened reds. They are VERY quiet, depending on how you type. PCB mounted clears with landing pads are also quite a bit quieter than many rubber dome keyboards. They aren't particularly audible in the next room, like a Model M or many cheap rubber dome keyboards often are.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: magictoaster on Thu, 11 August 2011, 14:29:07

At least they do not ping... (now this thread is really going to get derailed!)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23928[/ATTACH]

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Thu, 11 August 2011, 14:29:44

Quote from: ripster;397120

Welcome to Geekhack.

See Sig>Wiki>All About Scissor Switches.

MUCH quieter.  Almost anything would be better than that $15 Microsoft piece of crap.

Guaranteed ping free.
(Attachment) 23923[/ATTACH]

The $15 piece of crap works just as well for me as a Brown Filco and is quieter even if I don't bottom the key on the Filco and do on the X6 :tongue:

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: magictoaster on Thu, 11 August 2011, 14:37:54

Quote from: theferenc;397153

I'm sorry, but my HHKB and the RealForce I recently bought for my sister in law are much quieter than the Dell keyboard she had, the Logitech scissor switch her work gave her, or the chicklet POS on her Sony laptop.

We have numerous (and atrocious) Dell rubber dome keyboards at work, and compared to the Topres, they are nowhere silent. I guess the the new Topre "silent" type would fare even better. I guess quality of the keyboard matters, and not just the type of switch.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: hoggy on Thu, 11 August 2011, 14:44:35

Goldtouches are on the quiet side.  Mine is the quietest keyboard I own.  Quieter than the scissor switches on my laptop.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Brink on Thu, 11 August 2011, 15:00:00

The Dell QuietKey is a quite popular rubberdome, I would think that board was quite silent... or is that just a misleading name?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Thu, 11 August 2011, 16:25:36

Not sure why anyone is still insisting mechanicals are the answer. Do you guys actually have a basis of comparison? Curious.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23934[/ATTACH]

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Thu, 11 August 2011, 17:53:19

Who invented the backwards and unusable half-size (or worse) fkey row anyway?
on topic: Mech or not is a matter of taste, but I think they are overhyped.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Thu, 11 August 2011, 17:56:52

Quote from: arpod;397218

Not sure why anyone is still insisting mechanicals are the answer. Do you guys actually have a basis of comparison? Curious.

(Attachment) 23934[/ATTACH]

I just like 'em, and am not convinced that a well-chosen mechanical is any louder than the Dell domes we have at work already.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Thu, 11 August 2011, 18:07:28

My Filco Browns are much louder than $10 domes even if I bottom out on the latter and not on the former.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: theferenc on Thu, 11 August 2011, 18:07:28

Dell QuietKeys are actually anything but. They are quieter than the current models they ship with new builds, but good lord do they rattle a lot when you type on them.

At this point, I really do think the only quiet rubber dome keyboards which are commonly available are scissor switches, and even a lot of those are pretty noise. The Apple bluetooth model, for instance, makes a ton of noise when the person in the neighboring office is typing on it. It's totally absurd. I didn't even think a non-mechanical keyboard COULD make that much noise.

Oh, and take a look at the Unicomp "Enhanced Quiet Touch" models. They are rubber dome versions of the buckling spring keyboards (same body, different mechanism). They feel pretty damn nice, and they are very very quiet, with virtually no key rattle. I had a 122 key keyboard that had them, so it may have been a weight issue, but it was basically silent. Quieter than my HHKB, anyway (which only has a loud space bar, honestly -- which is likely due to how I hit it).

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Thu, 11 August 2011, 18:11:44

Quote

Oh, and take a look at the Unicomp "Enhanced Quiet Touch" models.

Nice. Shame the board is so huge.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: theferenc on Thu, 11 August 2011, 18:15:56

That's what the SpaceSaver model is for. Not that much larger than the Logitechs or Dells on the market. Actually smaller than the MS Ergo 4k, I believe.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Thu, 11 August 2011, 18:25:17

Still numpad, stepped "caps lock" (ctrl), and too large gap between the numrow and fkeyrow though. How I await the perfect keyboard.. :)
(yes, the gap size is crucial for StarCraft)

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: nhwhaup on Thu, 11 August 2011, 19:04:51

I agree that the cherry reds with the soft landing pads are very quiet even when typing fast and furious.  My husband is quite nutty when I'm typing away in the living room.  The only keyboard that he hasn't complained about is the reds.  If I type carefully my reds are pretty near silent.....

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Merlin on Thu, 11 August 2011, 20:04:23

I'm not endorsing lycosa here btw, but an interesting noise test between scissor and mech.

[video=youtube;b9uF0iqTMMc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9uF0iqTMMc[/video]

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: theferenc on Thu, 11 August 2011, 20:14:27

Well, consider there are no units on that, and we have no idea what the base is, all I can say is that the blue cherry mx switches seem to be about twice as loud as the scissor switches. And considering those are, by far, the loudest of the MX switches, I would say reds, clears, and topres are all probably in the same range as the scissors, just based on my ear, especially if you put the landing pads on the reds and clears.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Fri, 12 August 2011, 05:53:37

My Filco Browns are much louder than my scissors.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 06:10:20

Quote from: theferenc;397351

Well, consider there are no units on that, and we have no idea what the base is, all I can say is that the blue cherry mx switches seem to be about twice as loud as the scissor switches. And considering those are, by far, the loudest of the MX switches, I would say reds, clears, and topres are all probably in the same range as the scissors, just based on my ear, especially if you put the landing pads on the reds and clears.

Pure conjecture.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 12 August 2011, 06:24:34

Quote from: Johannes;397547

My Filco Browns are much louder than my scissors.

Any mechanical board is way more silent than the 99,999% of scissor based ones, whatever some mech integralists are saying.

Even the non clicky dampened ones, like the dampened alps or the o-ring modded MX, hardly are less noisy than most of the mainstream boards.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Fri, 12 August 2011, 06:36:55

I think that this may be a case of where cheaper is better - just got a Filco last night and it is my second plate mounted Cherry switch board and the first non-clicky one (browns vs. blues.)  It is distinctly louder than my two "rawko" Cherry brand boards (clears and browns) which use the same switches but are PCB mounted.  Most of the noise of the Filco comes from the stem returning to the top of the switch.  PCB is much quieter in that respect.

i'm still going to take the Filco in to work once I'm done modding some keycaps for it.  If anyone minds that subtle noise enough to complain about it, they don't have enough work to do.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 12 August 2011, 06:49:27

Is not only matter of PCB v.s. plate, try to swap the keycaps and you will see that a good part of the filco noise is due to the keycaps.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 06:51:12

Quote from: The Solutor;397554

Any mechanical board is way more silent than the 99,999% of scissor based ones, whatever some mech integralists are saying.

Even the non clicky dampened ones, like the dampened alps or the o-ring modded MX, hardly are less noisy than most of the mainstream boards.

This is just so much complete utter BS. What scissor keyboards have you used?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 12 August 2011, 06:57:10

Quote from: arpod;397563

This is just so much BS. What scissor keyboards have you used?

Mmmm... more or less any ?

Being an IT technician I touch any kind of keyboard. I can say safely that usually I touch 400 PC per year, there's something I missed or you had a sudden amnesia ?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 07:13:21

Guess the keyboard:
In no particular order, Filco brown, Topre variable, Sidewinder X6, Macally Icekey - one of the noisier decent desktop scissors due to it's scissor-mech clatter.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23985[/ATTACH]


@The Solutor
Correctly identify the noisiest keyboard as the scissor and I'll defer to your wisdom.

Otherwise, it'll be pretty evident to everyone that despite apparently being a huge enthusiast, you don't really have much of a clue - probably because you don't actually own anything beyond a prized mechanical and have convinced yourself it fits all situations / uses. You do realise having keyboards as a basis of your leetness is sad beyond words, don't you?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 12 August 2011, 07:18:52

Quote from: arpod;397567

Correctly identify the noisiest keyboard as the scissor and I'll defer to your wisdom.
Otherwise, it'll be pretty evident to everyone that despite apparently being a huge enthusiast, you don't really have much of a clue

Haha....

You mention the X6 as a scisssor switch board, when is a rubber dome, and at the same time criticize the other user. ?  :pound:

BTW I've used the X6 for more than a year, is one of the crappiest RD ever seen, but surely isn't more loud than any of my actual mechs.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 12 August 2011, 07:20:50

Switch matters: click, friction, ping, clack, release
Key cap matters: thick, thin, echo, rattle
Stabilizers matter: "space bar thunk"
Plate vs. PCB-mount matters: absorb, transmit, amplify noise
Case matters: flex, echo, dampening, how the keys are attached to the case, case material
Desk matters: dampening mat, glass, wood

... and the user's typing style matters!

If you type hard, then a scissor switch board could be more loud than a board with Cherry MX Black or Clear.
If you type soft, then a scissor switch board could be virtually silent, but you would hear the ping from a Cherry MX Black or the friction inside Cherry MX Clear switches.
It matters also how you release the keys: do you lift the finger off the key faster than it goes back up by itself, or do you let the finger be lifted by the key?
Typists also tend to press and release different keys differently. Alphanumeric keys in one way, hit the Enter key in one way, press cursor keys in another way, etc.

BTW, this is my 1000th post!

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 07:23:29

While some elements of that is true, the plain and simple fact is that there are noisy keyboards and there are quieter keyboards when used IN ANY MODE.

Quote from: The Solutor;397569

Haha....

You mention the X6 as a scisssor switch board, when is a rubber dome, and at the same time criticize the other user. ?  :pound:

BTW I've used the X6 for more than a year, is one of the crappiest RD ever seen, but surely isn't more loud than any of my actual mechs.

Where did I mention the X6 as a scissor keyboard?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Fri, 12 August 2011, 07:26:28

Quote from: The Solutor;397562

Is not only matter of PCB v.s. plate, try to swap the keycaps and you will see that a good part of the filco noise is due to the keycaps.

 
Not in my case... Filco has Cherry doubleshots :)  I don't even have the stock Filco keycaps.

I suppose I could try using Cherry PBT caps on the filco for a true all-things-equal test, but I'm still playing with it.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 12 August 2011, 07:38:11

Quote from: Findecanor;397571

If you type hard, then a scissor switch board could be more loud than a board with Cherry MX Black or Clear.

Come on...

There's no way to consider a scissor switches noisier than a cherry board

I've just recorded a sample, typing normally and then hammering the keyboards, first an ergo clear, then a scissor keyboard (the recording sw shows the decibel of the ergo clear as doubled, but I don't think any measurement is needed, a couple of ears should be more than enough...)

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: theferenc on Fri, 12 August 2011, 07:56:41

Quote from: arpod;397567

Guess the keyboard:
In no particular order, Filco brown, Topre variable, Sidewinder X6, Macally Icekey - one of the noisier decent desktop scissors due to it's scissor-mech clatter.

(Attachment) 23985[/ATTACH]

Topre, Macally, Sidewinder, Filco, in that order.

From that, I agree that, for your typing style, the Sidewinder is the quietest. Let me repeat that, in case it wasn't clear: FOR YOUR TYPING STYLE.

You call my last comment pure conjecture. Without units, and an apparent base average around 50, the blues on the BW are twice as loud as the scissors on the Lycosa, on average. Those are clearly not dBs, unless that guy lives in an intensely loud environment, but that only matters in that the units he was using are clearly linear, while dBs are logarithmic.

So that instance of blues are, on average, twice as loud as that instance of scissor switches. With me so far? Good.

Now, to my ear, blues are roughly twice as loud as browns from the same manufacture. Personally, browns sound stupid to me, but whatever. Most of that noise is actually due to bottoming out and topping out, as the brown switch itself is pretty close to silent (don't believe me? test it yourself, but do not bottom or top out the key).

Now, on any keyboard, bottoming and topping out are going to happen sometimes, if not always. For those who have installed landing pads or don't bottom out, you've eliminated at most half the sources of noise. But any keyboard, at all, is going to have top out noise. This is, in most cases, the majority of the noise that is associated with typing. Keycaps matter, how they are attached matters, and many other things that I'm likely not thinking of at the moment matter.

Scissor switches do mitigate this somewhat, in that the topping out is controlled by the scissoring action, and there is no hard plastic on hard plastic sound. But scissors vary greatly in quality. I won't claim that the quietest mech is quieter than the quietest scissor. What I do claim though is that, on average, the quieter mechs (topres, padded reds, padded clears -- for whatever reason, they seem quieter than browns to my ear) are in the same sound range as the average scissor switch keyboards. That word, average, is quite important to this discussion. I have 3 examples, currently within arms reach, that are actually louder than my HHKB, with the way I type. I have another that is quieter, regardless of how I type.

There are no hard and fast laws here. Some versions of a specific model are louder than others. There is a large amount of variability in any mechanical system, including keyboards of all varieties. That's just reality. Given that, all we can actually discuss are averages. Take that for what you will.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Fri, 12 August 2011, 08:02:43

Yeah, that's why the Filco Browns are so loud, they have a very sharp top out noise. Typing without the keycaps on is next to silent.
Typing style matters, but on the Filco Browns, the only way to (mostly) eliminate the harsh noise is to type so gently that I can't get above 60 wpm. (not very practical, in other words)

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 08:22:52

Quote from: Johannes;397595

Yeah, that's why the Filco Browns are so loud, they have a very sharp top out noise. Typing without the keycaps on is next to silent.
Typing style matters, but on the Filco Browns, the only way to (mostly) eliminate the harsh noise is to type so gently that I can't get above 60 wpm. (not very practical, in other words)

Not really. A lot of the component of the noise on a Filco brown is the return noise, which does resonate to an extent off the keycaps. But as I've heard with the rubber sheet, getting rid of the possible resonance doesn't cut a whole lot of the noise.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 08:24:29

Quote from: theferenc;397588

Topre, Macally, Sidewinder, Filco, in that order.

Any other takers? I notice Mr IT Technician hasn't put in a vote yet.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 12 August 2011, 09:22:59

Quote from: arpod;397599

Mr IT Technician hasn't put in a vote yet.

Frankly I don't even listened your sample.

My concern is to have what i like, w/o becoming a fanboy and w/o negating the evidence. Not to win in stupid quiz, I'm sorry.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 10:26:31

Quote from: The Solutor;397622

Frankly I don't even listened your sample.

My concern is to have what i like, w/o becoming a fanboy and w/o negating the evidence. Not to win in stupid quiz, I'm sorry.

Ah - the last refuge of the Internet BS artist. "My opinion is what counts to me"

It's also a relevant quiz since it gives the OP a chance to check out two of the popular mechanical actions, his own keyboard and among the noisier examples of the switch type I recommended.  You're not going to help the OP?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 10:29:20

Quote from: ripster;397658

I'd hate to be the OP.

He was just looking for a nice quiet keyboard.  Probably is happy with that Microsoft crappy Keyboard 600 too.

The rounded front edge is nice.
(Attachment) 24001[/ATTACH]

Sadly if he's ever been in a nerd board he must be familiar with it by now. I'm not overly fond of the X6, but I will take it over a Filco Brown any day. At least until it starts to get loose (given that of course, you can replace an X6-class keyboard 2-3 times at least for the cost of a Filco).

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 10:35:18

Quote from: ripster;397667

I'd help out but my hearing has been ruined by too many ping videos.

Afraid to put your rep on the line? :tongue: No-one's perfect :madgrin:

I ought to clarify by the way that the bass thumps are caused by having the mic standing on the same surface as the keyboard, and it's unlikely you'll hear them in normal use. In any case it's constant for all the recordings, which was done at the same time, same setup, with the mic above the home keys.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 10:43:45

Quote from: ripster;397671

Please test again using this robot device to ensure consistent key presses and avoid any human bias.

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=17993&d=1304873058)

If you buy it, sure.

I've nothing to lose in this argument and I can tell you that all the keyboards were recorded at my normal typing cadence on each keyboard writing an actual sentence.

Go on, take a stab, You aren't chicken, are you? :tongue:

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Jim66 on Fri, 12 August 2011, 10:45:36

Problem solved....

http://www.geekstuff4u.com/computers/peripherals/keyboard-mouse/thanko-keyboard-quiet-cover.html (http://www.geekstuff4u.com/computers/peripherals/keyboard-mouse/thanko-keyboard-quiet-cover.html)

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 12 August 2011, 10:53:25

Quote from: arpod;397663

Ah - the last refuge of the Internet BS artist. "My opinion is what counts to me"

Being rude or being a troll has never helped to reverse the reality, and yes, when I express what I think it's my opinion that counts (as happen to every user registered to any forum).

Quote

You're not going to help the OP?

I posted a sample of a relatively quiet cherry board v.s. a normal scissor switch board, no need to be Einstein to understand where to look for a silent board.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 11:17:11

Quote from: ripster;397683

You are SO bad at this.

In what way? The return noise on a Brown is either about the same, or slightly louder than an X6's travel noise. The X6 is a short-throw rubber dome and certainly in terms of regular typing I don't find it inconveniences me more than a Brown. In fact, because of the low-profile shape I find it more comfortable.

I'm not specifically aiming to point out the merits or demerits of the X6 here, but this is a very good example of peer opinion taking precedence or those who might hold definitive but flawed opinions which don't come from direct experience.

Now, if someone asks about a Lycosa for example, I can't answer the question because I've not owned one. But I'm sure that there are plenty of people here who will wade in on the basis of conjecture or needing to appear the expert. And they may well by dint of being able to write pretty well sound pretty convincing.

Who is the real troll in that situation?

...And are you going to take a stab or not?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 12 August 2011, 11:42:14

Quote

The X6 is a short-throw rubber dome and certainly in terms of regular typing I don't find it inconveniences me more than a Brown.

The X6 is the worst keyboard available out there, it's noisy, filmsly, wobbly, mushy, unpleasant because the flat keys and the keytravel too short to be considered classic, too long to be considered short, practically any 5$ keyboard is better.

But is still quieter than any cherry board.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 12:28:07

You still haven't guessed the keyboards. I've posted a way that (after the guesses) allows people to evaluate the products. You've posted a whole load of conjecture.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Fri, 12 August 2011, 12:32:46

Quote from: ripster;397745

Lol - I deleted my post when I read the whole thread and decided I want no part of this ***** fight.

I've got lots of keyboards and scissors are obviously the quietest.

I figured you might edit it, quoted you so your troll post is still up there :tongue:

I'll post the answer after two other guesses, with at least one from Mr IT Technician :madgrin:

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Sat, 13 August 2011, 03:16:53

Oh I don't claim it would be the same for everyone else, but it's clear that many, in their need to be seen as the experts, can't see the wood for the trees.

Looks like all of you are too chicken. Here's the keyboards from the recording in the correct order - once again, the icekey (white) is one of the noisier scissor-action keyboards due to it's scissor mech clatter in travel.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24083[/ATTACH]

The recording again [ATTACH=CONFIG]24084[/ATTACH]

Hope it helps, OP, in support to my original reply. I'm out of this thread and it's smattering of 'experts'.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Sat, 13 August 2011, 05:10:47

What i heard there is that the M$ RD board is just as loud as the Filco, which is on the loud side as far as brown switch keyboards go.

A Chery G80-3000 or eBay "rawko" board would be far, far quieter, and IME on the same order of magnitude of loudness as the scissor board, if not quieter.

This is in fact personal experience talking as I've got a Filco and two "rawko" boards.

Additionally, I suspect that a WASD with browns might be quite quiet, the click from the blues on mine is the loudest noise that I can hear.  However, I have not tried one with browns although I know that several people here have ordered them.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Sat, 13 August 2011, 05:30:51

Quote from: N8N;398120

What i heard there is that the M$ RD board is just as loud as the Filco

O_o

Quote

on the same order of magnitude of loudness as the scissor board, if not quieter

O_o  O_O

Very strange ears on GH...:madgrin:

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Sat, 13 August 2011, 05:59:17

If I *had* a crappy scissor switch board here I'd record my own sample and prove it to you.  Just because a Filco has browns and a G80-8200 has browns doesn't mean that they sound anything alike.  The G80 is WAY quieter.

Actually, the "thock" that the Filco makes when the key returns to the top is something that I've never heard before until recently.  I always assumed that that was bottoming out noise in posted sound samples, until I got one for myself.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Sat, 13 August 2011, 06:55:58

Quote from: N8N;398129

If I *had* a crappy scissor switch board here I'd record my own sample and prove it to you.

Mee too, if I had a scissor board louder than a cherry I'd record it. But I'm afraid I have to wait that someone invent such board

For now this is a g80 brown v.s. a scissor recorded side by side.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: FourOhFour on Sat, 13 August 2011, 08:02:06

If you want a really quiet keyboard, grab one of those awful silicone ones. Or an iPad running one of the remote control apps.

'course, they're both awful to type on for very long.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Sat, 13 August 2011, 08:12:02

I still think good scissors are the best balance of quietness and decent feel. And availability/price..

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: theferenc on Sat, 13 August 2011, 08:32:35

My HHKB is nowhere near as loud as your realforce, at 40% volume on my tablet, which makes the ice key almost inaudible.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Sat, 13 August 2011, 08:37:57

Quote from: The Solutor;398136

Mee too, if I had a scissor board louder than a cherry I'd record it. But I'm afraid I have to wait that someone invent such board

For now this is a g80 brown v.s. a scissor recorded side by side.

You sure that that is a G80 w/ browns?  I'm not calling you a liar, but that sounds NOTHING like a G80 with browns.  Which I happen to have sitting right here.  The only way it could be that loud is if you were bottoming out on every key press.

A G80 with clears is even quieter.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Sat, 13 August 2011, 10:57:11

Quote from: N8N;398152

You sure that that is a G80 w/ browns?  I'm not calling you a liar

Oh I won't to be surprised, looks like in the American forums this is a common habit, if I had a dollar each time I was called liar in an US based forum I was richer than Bill gates...:pound:

BTW It's a G80 3000 LQCDE ex clears, now brown (with clear springs) the pitch is different than filco or qpad but surely isn't quieter, the quietest board I have it's the Xarmor because the keycaps and the ergo clears, and I posted the sample before.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Sat, 13 August 2011, 10:59:14

Quote from: Johannes;398145

I still think good scissors are the best balance of quietness and decent feel. And availability/price..

Obviously they are

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Sat, 13 August 2011, 11:29:18

Quote from: The Solutor;398220

Oh I won't to be surprised, looks like in the American forums this is a common habit, if I had a dollar each time I was called liar in an US based forum I was richer than Bill gates...:pound:

BTW It's a G80 3000 LQCDE ex clears, now brown (with clear springs) the pitch is different than filco or qpad but surely isn't quieter, the quietest board I have it's the Xarmor because the keycaps and the ergo clears, and I posted the sample before.

That makes no damn sense.  that thing is making a hell of a racket, I have 2x G80-8200's (same manufacturer, same switches, same construction methods, same keycaps) one clears one brown and neither one sounds anything like that.  The clears one is likely the quietest mechanical board I've ever typed on, and as I said before, if you are typing on it correctly (not bottoming out) it is quieter than a common rubber dome.  Don't know about scissor switch boards because I don't have any to compare (and they feel like arse to type on)

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Sat, 13 August 2011, 11:43:37

Quote

if you are typing on it correctly (not bottoming out)

Who said that typing correctly implies not bottoming out ?

Surely I don't hammer the keyboard but also surely I don't mind to constantly force my fingers to not bottom out.

Someone like to not bottom someone doesn't, and someone hammers the keys, and none of the three is right or wrong.

Quote

and they feel like arse to type on

The thinkpad X100/X120 keyboard is likely the best keyboard I ever touched. Cost a little more than some topre but comes with a great notebook for free...:happy:

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Sat, 13 August 2011, 11:48:50

If you're looking for a quiet keyboard surely you can't bottom out, or even a rubber dome will make an unholy racket.

Besides, to me that is the biggest advantage of the mechanical-switch keyboards; having to constantly bottom out the keys to get the keypresses to register was I believe part of the cause of some hand discomfort that I was experiencing (the other major part likely being the beginnings of an inherited tendency toward arthritis) ever since going 100% mechanical and making a concerted effort to type more correctly and feel for the tactile bump rather than just slamming the keys all the way down, my hands have felt incredibly better.

to me, saying "bottoming out is neither right nor wrong" is akin to saying "lifting heavy loads by bending at the waist is neither right nor wrong."

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: nhwhaup on Sat, 13 August 2011, 16:11:31

Quote from: ripster;398251

I'm surprised nobody commented on how quiet that Topre was in the sound sample.

Obvious #1 choice if you want a quiet keyboard you don't have to bottom out on.   No Ping.  No Chattering.  Only good feeling of cup rubber.

Silent Topre version if the sound of birds chirping, the wind blowing, and streams flowing annoys you because you're a member of the T-Ball Generation that DESERVES silence.  Or you give a rat's ass what your wife thinks about the sound of your keyboard.

 
I am a total fan of my new 87U Silent RealForce.  I really didn't think it would be much quieter than my Filco with Reds and sound dampening pads but oh yes the RealForce is really quiet.  Nice feel to it and oh so quiet.

Quite a while ago I purchased a Silent Das Keyboard with brown switches and it was not quiet at all - actually pretty noisy.  And although not part of the T-Ball generation or at least I don't think so (what is the T-Ball generation?) but I do give a rat's ass that my hubby actually commented that it is a much better sound.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Sat, 13 August 2011, 16:41:29

Quote from: ripster;398224

That white keyboard was the noisiest scissor switch ever.  I would have RMA'd it.

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=24083&d=1313223348)

You SURE it's not a rubber dome?

I firmly pass the troll mantle to you.

I'll reiterate for the benefit of those who can't turn back pages that the very low thumping noises came from the mic being on the same table as the keyboard, and that in reality you would not be able to hear them. I do adjust my technique very slightly for the Topres and the Filco's, and it's not like e.g. the Icekey requires much more force to activate.

See you on the flipside, experts.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: sordna on Sat, 13 August 2011, 17:43:48

I wonder if there's a way to silence the upstroke in Cherry switches... it's what ends up making most of the noise once you have o-rings / soft-landing pads on.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: FourOhFour on Sat, 13 August 2011, 20:33:37

Quote from: ripster;398429

Anyway everybody at Geekhack seems to want the Cherry Corp engineers to concentrate on ping instead.

Is there a reason you bring up ping in almost every one of your posts?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: brandonspeed2006 on Sun, 14 August 2011, 12:19:41

Quote from: Jim66;397674

Problem solved....

http://www.geekstuff4u.com/computers/peripherals/keyboard-mouse/thanko-keyboard-quiet-cover.html (http://www.geekstuff4u.com/computers/peripherals/keyboard-mouse/thanko-keyboard-quiet-cover.html)

I'm pretty sure before I was caught typing with my hands in that retarded $36 cover, I'd just cover my hands with a towel...

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: brandonspeed2006 on Sun, 14 August 2011, 12:28:14

Thanks most of you for your input, trolls, godie. For now I'm going to stick with my Microsoft 600 keyboard until I find something better. I've yet to find a scissor keyboard that's quieter than this one, I'm not a serious computer gamer, do most of my gaming on Xbox Live. Any keyboard with the basic media keys and isn't loud is fine with me. Is it too much to just ask that I like quiet things? God damn, give me a break.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: F u r u y á on Sun, 14 August 2011, 13:09:46

Quote from: brandonspeed2006;398813

Thanks most of you for your input, trolls, godie. For now I'm going to stick with my Microsoft 600 keyboard until I find something better. I've yet to find a scissor keyboard that's quieter than this one, I'm not a serious computer gamer, do most of my gaming on Xbox Live. Any keyboard with the basic media keys and isn't loud is fine with me. Is it too much to just ask that I like quiet things? God damn, give me a break.

haha. Don't take them too seriously. After the trollage fest in ESReality now I'm used to those things. The world would be a sad and boring place without the trolls.


So here is my two cents:

My Filco with MX Brown is way, way, way louder then my IBM rubber dome with bearing grease in the stems. But it also way, way, way better to type and it has a way (x3) better feeling. I'm searching in local O'ring manufacturers for these (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17511-EK-s-quot-Soft-Landing-quot-Pads-for-Cherry-MX&p=348010&viewfull=1#post348010) (btw very well specified by sordna) to try to reduce the noise. I only hope that that won't change the good feeling of the switch.

So I would say stay away from mechanical switches (especially plate mounted ones) if you really care about noise. And I've never tried Topre switches but I imagine them as being very quiet.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 14 August 2011, 13:13:41

Quote from: FourOhFour;398477

Is there a reason you bring up ping in almost every one of your posts?

It's called "trolling". Ripster is an expert at it.

He once won a troll poll by a mile, but that's another story.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 14 August 2011, 18:09:53

Not the poll I'm talking about and you know it.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 14 August 2011, 19:21:31

That rule would apply to probably at least 3/4 of your posts.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 22 August 2011, 01:24:29

Quote from: ripster;398524

Because the topic is quiet keyboards?
(Attachment) 24241[/ATTACH]

I pinged a couple girls this weekend.

They enjoyed it immensely. Both want to ping again.

Am I a troll? A ping-troll? Am I trollping this thread?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 22 August 2011, 07:22:46

I was recently made an honorary member of the Ping dynasty.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Mon, 22 August 2011, 08:39:14

Quote from: sordna;398401

I wonder if there's a way to silence the upstroke in Cherry switches... it's what ends up making most of the noise once you have o-rings / soft-landing pads on.

Breaking my own 'outta here' post, I will say that foaming out the keycaps does make an acoustic change (and depending on the config this is done in, also acts as the bottom out bumper) but not a great one. Topre still quieter than any Filco at least, Sidewinder marginally quieter than both even with full travel and return. Other than a redesign of the switch I don't see any other way of mitigating the noise.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Mon, 22 August 2011, 09:19:10

well, you could shave a channel in the sides of the slider a la dampened Alps and quiet it that way...  but would probably be cheaper/easier to mold some custom MX sliders if one were to do that (and would likely be expensive for a small scale DIY mod project.)

That said,  I am typing this on a Filco w/ straight up clears (yes, I know that Filco never made a board like that ) with Teflon-lubed sliders and Cherry corp. doubleshots - it's not *quite* as silent as a good RD board typed on by someone who has a light touch, but it is still a very quiet board by any standards let alone mechanical keyboard standards.  I thought about putting some Dynamat on the plate in areas that don't show with the cover on, but a) I don't have any pinging problem with this board, either before or after the mods, and I suspect that that is the main thing that it would reduce and b) I didn't have any dynamat handy when I had the board apart...

I also lubed the heck out of the stabilizers and used a grey switch for the space bar so that I'm not bottoming out on anything.  That helps quite a bit.

To put the sound in perspective, when I'm sitting at my desk at work and typing on the Filco, it sounds about as loud to me as the sound I can hear when the person in the next cube over is typing on her new Dell rubber dome board.

And yes, the sound of the switches topping out is the loudest sound that you can hear when I'm typing.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: sordna on Mon, 22 August 2011, 10:21:07

If you add o-rings, you may reduce the sound a bit further.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Mon, 22 August 2011, 10:35:27

I've tried the O-rings, but I don't like them - I can tell the difference in switch travel as apparently it shortens it just enough that I'll hit the o-rings in normal typing and I don't like that.  The main appeal to me of the mechanical switch keyboards is the additional travel below the actuation point which makes my fingers happy.  With the clears I'm not bottoming out anyway.  I think I've achieved the goal of "quiet enough for the office" as a little clickety-clack is not offensive to me personally, but apparently my experiment with seeing if a Model M would be quiet enough to use in the office was a failure :)

Now the bad news - I've discovered today that since the surgery I apparently have taken a previously non-pingy keyboard and it now pings (on a couple numeric keys,) so I will have to pull a few switches and reseat them; if that fails I'll have to investigate Dynamat or something similar.  You can't hardly hear it, but now that I know it's there it's annoying me.

Edit: forgot to mention that for reasons I don't completely understand, this keyboard (Filco) is quieter than the G80-8200 that I was using as a switch try board, despite the fact that it has a plate and the G80 doesn't.  Only explanation that I can think of is perhaps the greater mass of the doubleshot keys compared to standard Cherry PBTs?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Mon, 22 August 2011, 10:41:57

Having done the o-ring mod, I must say it's pretty amusing to realise that some nerds will continue to try and use mechanicals even when they've managed to cripple it beyond a really bad rubber dome feel :pop2:

On a helpful tip and as an alternative which doesn't screw up the feel so much but arguably requires far more work, try putting a thin layer of firm foam under the keycaps (i.e. a hole-punched square with a tiny amount of glue to hold it in place if you don't have the wherewithal to make an exactly-fitting shape), which will double both as less 'boingy' bottom out bumpers and partial return noise absorber (obviously won't help doubleshots as much, but who knows) while affecting travel feel less. Obviously the result must weigh less than an o-ring but we managed to dig up some solid-block packing foam that was suitably dense yet light when thinly sliced. I would never, ever, in a million years however be as nerdy to actually pack it out myself but given what I read here, many clearly are.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 22 August 2011, 10:53:30

Quote from: keyboardlover;403118

I was recently made an honorary member of the Ping dynasty.

Pingy-Hana?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:04:11

Quote from: arpod;403221

Having done the o-ring mod, I must say it's pretty amusing to realise that some nerds will continue to try and use mechanicals even when they've managed to cripple it beyond a really bad rubber dome feel :pop2:

On a helpful tip and as an alternative which doesn't screw up the feel so much but arguably requires far more work, try putting a thin layer of firm foam under the keycaps (i.e. a hole-punched square with a tiny amount of glue to hold it in place if you don't have the wherewithal to make an exactly-fitting shape), which will double both as less 'boingy' bottom out bumpers and partial return noise absorber (obviously won't help doubleshots as much, but who knows) while affecting travel feel less. Obviously the result must weigh less than an o-ring but we managed to dig up some solid-block packing foam that was suitably dense yet light when thinly sliced. I would never, ever, in a million years however be as nerdy to actually pack it out myself but given what I read here, many clearly are.

Have you tried the Elite Keyboards soft landing pads?  That kind of sounds like what you are describing, and requires much less fiddling around to achieve the same result.  I've also seen posts recommending what sounded and looked like a German version of that stuff that you'd use underneath an area rug to stop it from slipping, or as a kitchen cabinet shelf liner.  For variations on the theme, you can buy several different flavors of drawer liner for mechanics' roll cabinets that are similar to the above but range from slightly firmer than the rug pad/shelf liner to significantly thicker/firmer.

Personally I prefer the feel of the heavier clear springs to any of the damper type solutions, but that may just be me.  However, I've only tried the O-rings and one of the two EK pads offered.  (I'd happily sell my leftovers if anyone wants them; I don't have any real desire to use them on any of my keyboards now that I've tried enough different configurations to figure out what I like.)

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:07:38

Quote from: ripster;403229

What teflon lube did you try?

It was some DuPont brand aerosol lube that I got at Lowe's.  It was called a "teflon dry wax lube" or something like that. I can dig up the can later if you want to know exactly.  I applied it by simply putting the sliders in a small pill bottle, spraying a mess of the lube in and swishing it around, and then dumping the sliders out onto a paper towel to soak up the excess and dry.  After I reassembled the whole keyboard but before installing the keycaps I wiped off the tops of the stems with isopropyl alcohol to hopefully remove most of the lube from the keycap/stem interface.  I have no idea if this will work well long term or eventually become gummy, but it feels great right now.  (but I haven't tried the magic Asian keyboard lube, nor have I tried Sil-Glyde which was another idea that I had but seemed to be much more work.)

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: sordna on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:08:32

Proper o-rings only change the feel in the last 0.5mm or so of travel (providing a softer landing). Any comparisons to rubber domes is a gross exaggeration. Besides, you can select how soft or hard the landing is by getting a different shore durometer.
Anyway, I'd advise against slicing any material for this purpose, as it's very hard achieve the correct thickness and uniformity. Finding a ready sheet of material would be a better bet. Note that the keycap underside plays a huge role in switch travel reduction. I have a couple of keycaps in which an 008 o-ring had absolutely no effect, it never got to touch the switch casing, and I had to add a shim.
On the other hand, if you find key travel reduced much more than 0.5mm, your keycaps probably have taller struts on the underside, in which case you could try thinner o-rings, or thin rubber washers.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:18:05

A ping-travaganza! lol

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: iMav on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:20:44

Quote from: N8N;403236

It was some DuPont brand aerosol lube that I got at Lowe's.  It was called a "teflon dry wax lube" or something like that.

This stuff??

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24848[/ATTACH]

This is THE BEST lube for motorcycle chains I have ever used (and I've tried a LOT).  Dries in minutes, no fling off the chain, and it doesn't attract dirt/grime.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:22:40

Quote from: input nirvana;403243

A ping-travaganza! lol

A ping-uin

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24849[/ATTACH]

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Input Nirvana on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:24:34

Quote from: The Solutor;403247

A ping-uin

(Attachment) 24849[/ATTACH]

Viva Italia!

(crazy Italian geek)  :)

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: arplod on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:33:19

Quote from: sordna;403237

Proper o-rings only change the feel in the last 0.5mm or so of travel (providing a softer landing). Any comparisons to rubber domes is a gross exaggeration.

Not really.

Quote

Anyway, I'd advise against slicing any material for this purpose, as it's very hard achieve the correct thickness and uniformity. Finding a ready sheet of material would be a better bet.

Good point. I'd forgotten to mention that - we can form sheets but it would be extraordinarily tricky with an exacto knife.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: N8N on Mon, 22 August 2011, 11:37:46

Quote from: iMav;403246

This stuff??

(Attachment) 24848[/ATTACH]

This is THE BEST lube for motorcycle chains I have ever used (and I've tried a LOT).  Dries in minutes, no fling off the chain, and it doesn't attract dirt/grime.

yes, that's the exact stuff.

Wonder if it'd be good on bicycle chains then?  Does it tend to seal out moisture?  (sorry for drifting off topic, but that is something of interest to me, as I used to ride semi-seriously and would like to get back into it, and have also been known to ride in the rain or when it has recently rained...)

Title: o-ring results are highly dependent on the keycap
Post by: sordna on Thu, 25 August 2011, 21:52:39

Quote from: arpod;403255

Quote from: sordna

Proper o-rings only change the feel in the last 0.5mm or so of travel (providing a softer landing). Any comparisons to rubber domes is a gross exaggeration.

Not really.

Yikes, I just tried o-rings on thick cherry doubleshots and they reduced the key travel noticeably, way more than they do on thin keycaps. Looks like the length of stem left after the o-ring installed is crucial. The longer the keycap stem, the less key travel the o-rings are going to affect. Look at the difference between a KBC Poker "O" key and a Cherry "O" key with the same o-ring installed:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25045[/ATTACH]

Cherry doubleshots will need thinner o-rings !

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Fri, 02 September 2011, 12:25:44

I have a Filco Browns with EK soft-landing pads and the travel isn't reduced much. The feel is still better than cheap rubber domes.
Not all that much better though.. at least lighter and more consistent..

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 02 September 2011, 12:53:27

Quote from: Johannes;409437

and more consistent..

Consistence is likely the field where the RD wins hands down over the cherry MX.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Fri, 02 September 2011, 13:00:22

Well that's cow****, the browns are very consistent.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 02 September 2011, 13:02:12

Quote from: Johannes;409462

Well that's cow****, the browns are very consistent.

hahaha, they have even 5g of difference from a key to another on a brand new board, not speaking about a worn out one....

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: Johannes on Fri, 02 September 2011, 13:10:31

Link?

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 02 September 2011, 13:13:01

Quote from: Johannes;409474

Link?

Link ? :twitch:

Use a spare switch and do switch-o-meter test your keyboard yourself.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 02 September 2011, 13:23:22

Quote from: ripster;409478

What's a switch-o-meter?  Is that your stupid spring test?

use the search button if your weak memory doesn't help.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 02 September 2011, 13:38:39

Quote from: ripster;409488

Ahah, it IS the stupid spring test.

What does that measure again?

What is the scale of units?

I'm sure your brain is not developed enough to understand the relative or the dynamometric measurements.

Loser

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 02 September 2011, 13:49:08

Quote from: ripster;409506

The RipOmeter (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6189) is THAT good!

 

If you are stupid enough to use the ripometer test to test the evenness of a keyboard on a decent number of keys, go ahead, you will get less precise results in 10x the time.

Title: Looking for a quiet keyboard
Post by: The Solutor on Fri, 02 September 2011, 13:50:52

Quote from: ripster;409509

You remind me of this Dutch guy.

I consider it a compliment.