geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Tim on Fri, 12 August 2011, 12:05:13
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Hi there,
I'm a programmer and spend most of every day at the keyboard typing etc. I have quite recently (over the last few months) developed a bad pain in the middle joint of my little ("pinky") finger on my left hand. I am 99% sure this is to do with typing as it's worse after I've done a lot of work, and typing sets the pain off. I believe it is caused by constantly using the left "control" key (and to a lesser extent the left "shift" key) with various key combinations; my little/pinky finger is the one that uses the control key. Other than that, I touch-type pretty fast. I use a Cherry RS6000M and I have no other posture-related pains as I'm quite careful about desk/chair/monitor ergonomics.
My problem is that the pink/little finger is always curled over uncomfortably on the left "control" key, and that's what's causing me problems in that joint.
I would like to know what you all think about using a split keyboard instead? I am hoping I can angle it such that the finger in question will always be straight, and my hands will be in a more natural position. On my right hand, the pinky finger is nearly always on the "enter" key and is straight, and I have no problems in that finger - so I reckon that adjusting the key layout such that the left pinky is also straight will solve my problem.
What keyboard model would you recommend for this situation? Has anyone else experienced the same problem?
One last point which might have a bearing on the answer: I have pretty huge hands! (I am also a big, tall person, if that makes a difference...)
Thanks very much for any help you might be able to offer ...
Cheers,
Tim.
P.S. I'm from the UK where we call the "pinky" finger our "little" finger, in case I have confused anyone...
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You can always do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mnTOcCJ6sw#t=55s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mnTOcCJ6sw#t=55s)
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Welcome to The Land of the Geeks. "Caps Lock" is evil and should be prohaste replaced by its correct function, namely Control.
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type with your minddddddddddddddd. 10000000000000000000000000000 wpm
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Here is a weird idea: Get a keyboard with a Japanese layout, remap the Kana keys (extra keys to the left and right of the Space bar) to Shift and press them with your thumbs as you would press Alt and Alt Gr.
Then pull off the original Shift keys so that you don't press them accidentally.
That is, if you can live with the | key being on the right side and also with having a smaller Backspace key.
Perhaps a keyboard with a lighter touch could also help. Any time now, the fans of various light switches are going to see this thread and start to tout their favourite boards. :)
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Ill second findecandors suggestion concerning a lighter keyboard...namely replacing your rubber dome cherry with a board using mx brown switches. I personally cant stand Cherry RS model keyboards, though I have a family member that refuses to type on anything else.
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I am forcing myself to use the right control key more and more because I use CTRL+T a lot to create a new tab. I like to believe that I am also challenging my brain in doing so.
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i have the bad habit of shifting my whole hand down to use ctrl, so it's thumb+ctrl and index finger, whatever, but i'm also not a programmer, so i don't use ctrl all that much, what kind of keyboard is the cherry rs6000M? g83?
ergonomic really isn't going to help you, imo, you have to change you're habits, that is you have to stop using ctrl w/ pinky immediately, further use will only inflame/hurt your're joint more.
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I also have big huge hands, and I've never experienced pain due to typing (except when switching over TO an ergo board, imagine that). My suggestion would be to train yourself to lightly rest your fingers on the home row. That means the left pinky would be on the "a" key, and you'd move it over to control only as necessary.
Also, I'd suggest the same thing I tell guitarists: focus on making the smallest motion possible to execute the action you want.
I've notices that a lot of people tend to move their wrists when typing (I still do too when I'm not paying attention). Recently, I've been concentrating on moving just my fingers while typing, keeping my wrists stationary. It actually feels much nicer.
Just my $0.02
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Get a keyboard like a Kinesis Advantage, which moves the control keys to the thumbs. Another idea, is to get a footswitch for Control/Shift/etc. I use a Kinesis Advantage (with the very light, cherry MX red switches) AND use footswitches. This setup has has relieved my pinkies considerably. I even use Caps Lock (considered by many to be a useless key) when I need to type more than 3-4 capital letters in a row if I don't have a footswitch nearby.
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Remapping Caps Lock to Control might not be the best idea (depending on the kind of programming you do).
Here is a weird idea: Get a keyboard with a Japanese layout, remap the Kana keys (extra keys to the left and right of the Space bar) to Shift and press them with your thumbs as you would press Alt and Alt Gr.
Then pull off the original Shift keys so that you don't press them accidentally.
That is, if you can live with the | key being on the right side and also with having a smaller Backspace key.
But how would moving the Shift keys help with his problem with the Control key? :P
But to build up on that idea: try remapping the right Alt/Alt Gr key to the Control key and use your right thumb for the "new" Control and your left thumb for Alt - that's easy to do, should reduce the actions of your pinky finger (especially the curling) a good bit and shouldn't bee too hard to get used to.
On top of that you can also switch to using right and left Shift in turn (or only right Shift if you don't want to hurt your finger more than necessary).
Perhaps a keyboard with a lighter touch could also help.
That might be a good idea as well in general, but probably won't help with the "curling" of the finger.
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Thanks so much for all these suggestions!!
- I am not sure I want to actually cut off the offending finger ;-)
- Remapping caps lock seems like an excellent idea. The only time I use it is either by accident, or when programming we have sometimes quite long static members that are all in caps, but it's no great sacrifice to use shift for these. I just hope that it works at the OS level and will continue to work when I'm using Synergy (for one keyboard / mouse on serveral computers at once, as I'm sure everyone must know already...)
- Anything involving a combo with fingers on the right and left hands simultaneously won't work as the right hand will often be operating the mouse (might be copy and pasting something to somewhere else, using the mouse to select the new location etc)
- I will also get myself a keyboard with lighter keys (mx brown switches?) as for a while I've suspected this Cherry RS is a bit heavy. Obviously this doesn't help with the curling but it could at least soften the impact on the joint. I don't think I get so much pain when using a laptop, for example, but I don't use one for extended periods (and if I do I use an external keyboard!)
- I try to move only the fingers and not the wrists at all, as a few years ago I had painful wrists from typing, so I have the keyboard angled right, and only move my fingers where possible.
What are peoples' thoughts about a Goldtouch split keyboard? I was just thinking maybe being able to angle the left and right halves differently, in a kind of inverted V, might work also - especially in combination with remapping caps lock...
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- Remapping caps lock seems like an excellent idea. The only time I use it is either by accident, or when programming we have sometimes quite long static members that are all in caps, but it's no great sacrifice to use shift for these. I just hope that it works at the OS level and will continue to work when I'm using Synergy (for one keyboard / mouse on serveral computers at once, as I'm sure everyone must know already...)
Windows (anything newer than Windows 95 at least) allows permanent remapping of keys by toying with the scancode map in the registry (there are also tools to make that easier, like KeyTweak for example). I'm not sure if that works for Synergy (because I haven't tried it), but it should since it happens at the OS level and not through any third party software (like AutoHotKey for example... but even that might work for Synergy).
- Anything involving a combo with fingers on the right and left hands simultaneously won't work as the right hand will often be operating the mouse (might be copy and pasting something to somewhere else, using the mouse to select the new location etc)
Well, then there's not much choice apart from Caps Lock. Maybe the left Alt key (remap it to Control and then press it with your left thumb), but you might need Alt for other combos, so that's not ideal. Apart from that, you could also remap one (or several, depending on your mouse) mouse buttons to function as Shift, Control, Alt or even as predefined commands for copy and paste. That might be worth a look, especially if you have a mouse with more than 3 buttons.
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You also could remap Ctrl -> Capslock, Shift -> LeftCtrl and pick up the habit to press the new Shift (former Ctrl) with this knuckle:
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/2687/unled2cr.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/unled2cr.jpg/)
You don't happen to use the Dvorak-Layout? Otherwise you could use this Autohotkey-script to remap Shift to ' and / (needs most current version of Autohotkey_L (get it here) (http://www.autohotkey.net/~Lexikos/AutoHotkey_L/))
; use ' and / as shift keys and maintain their original function
>+'::"
' UP::
Send {LShift Up}
if (A_PriorKey = "'")
SendInput {'}
return
'::LShift
<+/::?
/ UP::
Send {RShift Up}
if (A_PriorKey = "/")
SendInput {/}
return
/::RShift
for reference: Dvorak Layout (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:KB_United_States_Dvorak.svg)
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As for picking up a lighter switch, mx brown is only one option out there. The browns still have a light tactile bump, while MX reds are a light linear switch. Personally I use ergo-clears, clear stem with a "brown" spring, so I have a light-force, noticeably tactile switch. There is a model of the kinesis using cherry red switches which has audible feedback via a built in speaker, there is a very nice review here somewhere, ill look for it and edit in the link if i find it.
edit:
review of the advantage with browns: http://jseliger.com/2009/07/20/kinesis-advantage/
review of the LF version with reds: http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=748
Id recommend trying out different switches if you have an opportunity, blues and blacks can be found in boards like the black widow and steelseries boards, which are available in a lot of mainstream electronics retailers by now. Browns and reds are harder...either try to find a fellow geekhacker near you or sign up for mr interfaces sinklists, he has several running at the moment letting people try different switches for (almost) free.
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What are peoples' thoughts about a Goldtouch split keyboard? I was just thinking maybe being able to angle the left and right halves differently, in a kind of inverted V, might work also - especially in combination with remapping caps lock...
I have a Goldtouch, I used it before I got into the Kinesis Advantages, and liked it a lot. I also have a Comfort Keyboard (which I'm selling by the way) which is way more adjustable than the goldtouch, and has extremely soft switches (much softer than even the MX reds), and a very soft, cushioned landing. Click it on my sig for pics and more info.
If it's joint pain you have, you should definitely consider a soft landing, either by getting an appropriate switch, or by doing the o-ring or soft-landing-pad mod if you go with cherry switches (all Cherries have a concrete-hard landing when you bottom out).