geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: sinis on Sun, 21 August 2011, 21:11:58
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In those two threads (number 1 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?21249-How-often-do-you-clean-your-keyboards&p=402913#post402913), number 2 (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Das+S+Lasered+Keys+Versus+Filco+Pad+Printed+-+FIGHT)) I found the information, that ethanol is a bad cleaning agent for my filco as it makes the keycap cloudy:
Please keep in mind though that Filco boards should not be cleaned with alcohol. It ruins the coating of the keys.
i doubt that with ethanol. the wiki said an old filco lost its coating from isopropanol. thats a difference.
Denatured Ethanol was worse.
I use ethanol for cleaning my IO, finding it quite handy. Long story no sense, I tried it myself.
Results:
After 5 minutes lying in 96% alcohol, socalled "Brennspiritus" in Germany, the filco keycap does not differ from the reference keycap, which is untreated.
The wiki states how long the keycaps were lying in the other solvents, but it lacks that information for the ethanole.
Also in the wiki:
"I know that industrial etanol (a lighter alcohol) is made in a process which also pollutes the result with small amounts of acetone -- which we know is a solvent that damages Filco keys. This is why you should never use etanol to clean plastic or painted surfaces.
Alcohol made through fermentation and distillation does not contain acetone, but it is such a slow and expensive process in comparison so that it is never used for anything that is not meant for human consumption."
I am quite shure that Brennspiritus only contains Ethanol and Butanone for denaturation. It is different for the american denaturated ethanole.
The wiki says:
Ethanol/Methanol starts to cloud the rest of the keys.
It appears, that denaturated ethanole of the test was 55% ethanole, 45% methanole and 5% something. The 5% could be everything.
Pictures:
Left side is always the treated one. Right side is untreated.
after 5 minutes in Ethanol
[ATTACH=CONFIG]24815[/ATTACH]
after 35 minutes in Ethanol.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]24816[/ATTACH]
There is no difference. Maybe yet, maybe there will not be any significant difference after hours. Maybe the coating of the keycaps is now different. Or it was the 45% methanole or th e 5% other stuff in it that makes the difference.
As I can get no information from the test how long it took for the filco keycaps to be attacked by the ethanole/methanole, my work ends here. 5 mins was the standard test in the wiki for the solvent treatment. The filco keycaps stand a 35min diving in the ethanole 96% with no harm.
The keycaps are of a filco majestouch 2, bought in august 2011 from keyboardco.com
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Great discovery, Sherlock.
(sinks entire keyboard in ethanol)
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Acetone, when present, is not a byproduct of the production process, is added purposely.
In Italy a 2% of acetone on generic alcohol is simply enforced by the law, btw other desaturated alcohol are available for different purposes, like the perfume industry, the dental care industry and so on.
I think every nation has its own formula to denaturate the alcohol.
http://www.salvelocs.it/alcool-denaturato.htm
BTW according to the German wikipedia, in Germany butanone (methyl ethyl ketone) is used instead of acetone (Dimethyl ketone) which is very close to acetone in chemical properties, including the effects on many kinds of plastics.
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BTW according to the German wikipedia, in Germany butanone (methyl ethyl ketone) is used instead of acetone (Dimethyl ketone) which is very close to acetone in chemical properties, including the effects on many kinds of plastics.
No, no, no. Methyl ethyl ketone ("MEK") is a more potent solvent than acetone. It is well known as being the active ingredient in many adhesives for plastics. Just ask anyone who works with plastics professionally.
LEGO's sculptors, who build sculptures for their theme parks, to place in stores, etc, used to use liquid MEK to chemically weld the blocks together. They have gone over to GBL, because there were too many health hazards involved with MEK. (btw, GBL becomes GHB when diluted with water, so it is a controlled substance)
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No, no, no. Methyl ethyl ketone ("MEK") is a more potent solvent than acetone.
As a solvent
Butanone is an effective and common solvent[3] and is used in processes involving gums, resins, cellulose acetate and nitrocellulose coatings and in vinyl films.[5] For this reason it finds use in the manufacture of plastics, textiles, in the production of paraffin wax, and in household products such as lacquer, varnishes, paint remover, a denaturing agent for denatured alcohol, glues, and as a cleaning agent. It has similar solvent properties to acetone but has a significantly slower evaporation rate.[6] Butanone is also used in dry erase markers as the solvent of the erasable dye.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanone
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That still means that it is more potent than acetone, in all the settings that a typical hobbyist may use it. In a setting where there is air for it to evaporate into, and at close to room temperature. If you dunk the keys in a vat, then that might be the same, though.
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That still means that it is more potent than acetone, in all the settings that a typical hobbyist may use it. In a setting where there is air for it to evaporate into, and at close to room temperature. If you dunk the keys in a vat, then that might be the same, though.
Here no one is talking about using Propanone(acetone) or Butanone directly.
I've just mentioned it because looks like that the German denaturated alcohol while isn't using acetone (as stated by the OP) still contain a similar solvent. The power of the solvent is a pointless detail unless the quantities involved are known.
I know that in italy a 2% of acetone is used, but i don't know how much butanone is used in Germany, so any comparison is futile.