100 mechanical switches are pretty much worth $70+ soldered into a keyboard, and the keyboard itself is worth at least $35+, so using that logic, at starting point for a mechanical switch keyboard is at least $110+.
I think your logic is off, as there are many examples of new mechanical keyboards that cost less than $110.
I was "so disappoint" with Kinesis too, when they introduced the Freestyle. I sent them an email, asking why whyy WHYYY did you stagger it??? Who needs another Goldtouch?I didn't understand it at first. I guess they didn't want it to be TOO different, and get some easier sales. I have a Freestyle, nice board, but I just can't do the staggering anymore.
PS. Your new avatar is hilarious, please keep it!I already tried to delete it, but the Colonel actually SAID "Ping!" OUT LOUD! Scared the crap outta me.
I probably would of bought one at 150, but at 250, I think they are pushing it.
if we look at it, TE has always played these "price games" aren't ppl tired of it already? what were some of them?
buy a board for 150
oh no we're late, here's 50 coupon
what else bs marketing have they done?
Blatantly lying on their website.
Me too. Then again, I don't believe there is a board, or that there ever WILL be a board.
But, if there IS a board, and it's good, REALLY good, like REALLY REALLY good, it might be worth close to what they are trying to get for it. My guess is that it won't sell for that price, and it will drop to something more reasonable.
Then, six months later, they will go out of business, and Costar will make it for $150.
Wait until March of next year, and you'll have a Truly Ergonomic Keyboard in your hands.
That, or a Kinesis. :P
while ( true ) {
print ("TE is a sham");
print ("TE is stealing our money");
print ("etc");
}
Architect, the main problem is the lack of credibility of the company. I personally think they WILL ship a keyboard, but apart from the continuous pushing of the date during the entire year, they put some obvious lies on their website:
1. The reviews, which are totally fake
2. The testimonials, which are totally fake
3. The claim that their keyboard is healthier than Kinesis/Maltron/Datahand, which is unsubstantiated and an outright lie
Don't forget that Architect is the guy who posted a thread back in January 2011 listing the problems with the Kinesis and extolling the benefits of the TE. Except, of course, the TE didn't exist back then and still doesn't.
The truth of the matter is, anyone the sent money to TE is an "investor".
Let's forget the delay for a moment.
Trouble now is the price - at a 10% or 20% premium over a 'standard' quality MX-based board, they could've sold an awful lot of units. At $250 they'll be lucky to sell a tenth the number. And the basic concept would be very easy to copy, by a competitor who could easily undercut that price. (It's pretty clear they wouldn't have the money to fight a patent battle, even if they had one).
The newspeak continues :)
I actually really like staggering. It gives the same layout and boardfeel as a non-split keyboard.
Straight-keyed split keyboards may look better but they feel off.
EDIT---I added the TE rendering and a note about it's proposed nice layout in my Split Kinesis Mod article. This should make Architect happy:
"A proposed layout that has been circulating the web for a couple years (rendering only, non-production keyboard)."Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25155&d=1314497627&thumb=1)
Seriously, if anyone wants one of those things, contact me. If there are 10 boards we can get a good price on materials. "Geekhacks Revenge" will be sweet, sweet revenge.
You know what's funny, now that it looks like this thing is about to ship, I've lost interest because I'm working on a keyboard design myself. I don't regret the pre-order though but if it was $250 from the start I would've gotten the Kinesis Advantage instead.
It's this kind of customer support for new ergonomic keyboard startups that illustrates just how dead the ergonomic keyboard market is.
Anyway it should ping at least a bit. It uses Cherry MX switches.
I've been playing around with KiCAD today just for fun. I made a spreadsheet to define the coordinates and rotation of the switches. Of course it needs some more work but it wouldn't be too horrible to get it right I think. This is the result so far. If a split board is desired the PCB could probably be designed to be "flipable" to allow for two identical PCBs for the left and right part, cutting costs further.
(Attachment) 25175[/ATTACH]
Razer immediately rejects any and all product suggestions for legal IP reasons.Wise policy on their part. I have nothing to suggest to TE at this point. I'm digging the idea of spending a couple hours setting up a "copy" framework with a sales price of $149 and having the link emailed to them.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.That would be suicide. Why not kill the *******s that come to us with their lies, bad intent, and misplaced priorities? I know I want to.
All TE proposed items are off-the-shelf except:
1-case
2-wrist rest (optional)
3-2 or 4 keycaps
4-controller/firmware
This keyboard can be made in a week, with the exceptions of the 4 items listed above. The case (#1) and 2 or 4 keys (#3) can easily be improvised depending on how much someone wants to spend (Shapeways?). The controller (#4) it will depend on what features someone wants (HumbleHacker, Hasu?). So if people want a 90% TE board, we can make it. For gods sake, the damn thing is FLAT! Have switches from Mouser plate-mounted (or even switches TE did not propose), custom keycaps from WASD Keyboards, get the controller from one of the sources (with NO dip switches), and hand wire the thing like an $800 Maltron.
Then, TE can go screw themselves instead of screwing all of us. And if TE is really a legit company, they can come out of hiding and stop us.
Seriously, if anyone wants one of those things, contact me. If there are 10 boards we can get a good price on materials. "Geekhacks Revenge" will be sweet, sweet revenge.
PING!
Count me in.
You know, - if I wanted buy a TE, I'd rather wait until I could buy a second hand one.
I've been playing around with KiCAD today just for fun. I made a spreadsheet to define the coordinates and rotation of the switches. Of course it needs some more work but it wouldn't be too horrible to get it right I think. This is the result so far. If a split board is desired the PCB could probably be designed to be "flipable" to allow for two identical PCBs for the left and right part, cutting costs further.
(Attachment) 25175[/ATTACH]
It's this kind of customer support for new ergonomic keyboard startups that illustrates just how dead the ergonomic keyboard market is.
You can't judge the ergo market by just one company. Look at Kinesis, I asked them about the possibility of making me a red mx keyboard, and they decided to make it a standard model. Not only that, I sent them the proposal in March, and had the actual keyboard in my hands in May. Not only that, the CEO of the company stepped in to contact me, thank me for the idea, and get everything lined up. How is that for customer support?
Manufacturing phase
We have finalized all steps involved in manufacturing the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard in accordance with our design specifications.
As a result, we are happy to announce that we are about to manufacture your Truly Ergonomic Keyboard and that delivery will follow soon after.
Additional pre-orders
We continue to accept pre-orders until August 31st with the reduced price of $199 USD/CAD dollars or €149 euros.
The MSRP of $249 USD/CAD dollars or €179 euros will become effective after August 31st, 2011.
The Truly Ergonomic Keyboard is priced in line with its quality and specifications: a unique split–symmetric columnar key arrangement; a design which embraces the symmetric shape and neutral position of the human body; it is manufactured using gold-plated Cherry MX mechanical keyswitches; reprogrammable in firmware; the palmrest is cushioned and removable; it is truly comfortable; and it is Windows, Mac, and Linux compatible.
We estimate we will start accepting standard orders October 2011.
Blog
We created a new post in our Blog with the above information: http://www.trulyergonomic.com/blog.html#Tooling
Model change request
If for any reason you wish to change the Model you pre-ordered, simply reply to this email with the specifications of the Model you prefer:
- Model 104, 105, or 109.
- English US QWERTY, English International, or Blank Layout.
- Silent (MX Brown) keyswitches or Light-click-sound (MX Blue) keyswitches.
There is no need for you to reply to this email to confirm your order. Reply only if you wish to change your pre-ordered model at no additional cost.
Delivery Address
We will send you and additional email to verify your delivery address information.
We thank you very much for your support during our pre-order manufacturing phase.
Regards,
The Truly Ergonomic team
With every monthly communication, they push the shipping date out farther. Since July's communication stated that they would ship the end of August, this communication represents another delay (announcing they are ready to start production).
I have stuck with my pre-order and do hope it ships soon. I certainly don't think it will supplant my Kinesis Advantage, but I am really curious to see how they turn out.
A little transparency would go a long way, instead of a pat email.
"Geekhacks Revenge" will have a ship date soon as a few people jump in and put it together. We have WASD Keyboards, and some pretty good resources right here.
If we make it a split (i.e. 2 distinct pieces, not just the key layout), tent-able and non-staggered count me in for at least one ;)
I found this (http://www.dansdata.com/edkb.htm) regarding that board.
There is another keyboard split design that is matrix-style on the right and staggered on the left. It escapes me now though. Seems very odd to me.
We just need to make the framework (custom programmable controller!) and anything else is easy.
Hi,imo, if your hurting now, stop that pain! trying to save money cannot save your joints no matter how old you are or how long you are using a keyboard that seemingly hurts you. Yes this sounds like a salesman scare tactic to buy now, but of course no one is selling anything here.
I'm waiting for 5 month now the release of the TE.
I didn't buy it yet, I was waiting for reviews.
Do you think I should not buy it (yet, at least)?
My hands are hurting so I really need a good keyboard (and mouse, but I will take care of this later). I've never had one, always laptops.
I'm a little afraid be the kinesis (price and design), I'm not sure the typematrix is really ergonomic. The TE seemed perfect to me (but the full price is really high).
So I don't know.
Any advice?
My hands are hurting so I really need a good keyboard (and mouse, but I will take care of this later). I've never had one, always laptops.
I'm a little afraid be the kinesis (price and design), I'm not sure the typematrix is really ergonomic. The TE seemed perfect to me (but the full price is really high).
So I don't know.
Any advice?
* Trackballs: the KEM and m570 are good.
Some Kinesis are programmable, not all. I have a programmable Kinesis and a non-programmable one.
Yes, KEM is Kensington Expert Mouse.
Thanks. I tried an ADB one long ago, but never got the hang of it. Maybe I'll dig it out and try again.
Also even if your desk is not the right height, adjust your chair to match the height of the desk for typing.
Non-programmable Kinesiseses can be made programmable with the insertion of a 60¢ EEPROM.
All TE proposed items are off-the-shelf except:
1-case
2-wrist rest (optional)
3-2 or 4 keycaps
4-controller/firmware
This keyboard can be made in a week, with the exceptions of the 4 items listed above. The case (#1) and 2 or 4 keys (#3) can easily be improvised depending on how much someone wants to spend (Shapeways?). The controller (#4) it will depend on what features someone wants (HumbleHacker, Hasu?). So if people want a 90% TE board, we can make it. For gods sake, the damn thing is FLAT! Have switches from Mouser plate-mounted (or even switches TE did not propose), custom keycaps from WASD Keyboards, get the controller from one of the sources (with NO dip switches), and hand wire the thing like an $800 Maltron.
Then, TE can go screw themselves instead of screwing all of us. And if TE is really a legit company, they can come out of hiding and stop us.
Seriously, if anyone wants one of those things, contact me. If there are 10 boards we can get a good price on materials. "Geekhacks Revenge" will be sweet, sweet revenge.
PING!
Edit: nvm just found them. Seems like doing ctrl-shift + home/end would be awkward. I do that a lot.Well, the right control and shift are still one above the other so you should be able to press them with your right hand, after which you can simply press home/end.
I'm with ya brotha! The Advantage makes a lot of other things into non-issues, right? I'm finding out that most people with Advantages feel that same way but just don't say much because they are at close to 100% and why beat a dead horse? Typically not a very vocal, strong supporting group. They got what they need and that's it. Probably why Sordna and myself are relatively vocal is because we aren't satisfied and want to improve the Advantage. (Sordna=Kinesis adding red cherry switches)
I would like to do a couple things:
1-Cost analysis and see if we can make a close TE copy and have it in peoples hands for under $200.
2-Flexible design to offer it as a split (2 halves keyboard with a cable between)
There needs to be a concerted effort on the electronics side. I will collect the several current threads, and the several past projects and link it all on the one thread I re-started. We need a name and wiki conversion. That's important, then perhaps some effort into establishing a workflow with periodic goals. I have a couple Kinesis main boards we can use as well.
I have a short list too:
1. Function/Escape that don't suck. I mean, they did everything so nicely for the main keys, then ****ty membrane micro-buttons for Escape and F1-12? Who decided THAT was a good idea?
2. IBM M15 style adjustable angle. I'm 6'1" with long arms, and I feel like my wrists are doing the ulnar deviation thing unless I jam my elbows together.
Actually, both of these could be retrofitted on the Kinesis fairly easily, but in both cases, again, not bad enough to make me jump on it.