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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: kwantz on Fri, 26 August 2011, 16:08:12
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Got my first mech keyboard yesterday,,,,, leo cherry browns.
Cant type worth a **** on the damn thing :( (so use to my laptop keyboard) and much louder than expected. I wish it was more tactile. Damn I wish clears were more popular.
The leopold is a friggen tank though. I will never knock its quality. And no it does not squeek or whatever the filco fanboys say about it.
I just really wish it would come in a clear version.
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I would also like to see more "clear" alternatives. You might still get used to it...it takes awhile.
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A shame that you don't like it but it might need to grow on you?
Give it a few days/weeks and see if you perception changes?!
and even if you don't like them then, those should be quiet easy to sell.
<= potential buyer :)
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Just give yourself a few days it it, and I'm sure that you'll learn to love it. I could barely feel the bump on my leo browns at first, but now it really stands out to me, even when typing full speed.
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You could buy a cheap clear board from Rawko on ebay (~$35) and swap out the clear switch heads to make ergo clears (more tactile) or the heads and to springs to make it full clears.
Or just resell it here using the marketplace, I am sure there is someone that would be interested since it would be like new.
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yeah, just after years of using a macbook pro.....my fingers have become adapted to the low profile "island: style keys.... Im sure after a few days I really hope that I can adapt to them... if not, I think I am going to have to goto clears.... I am making wayyyy to many typos with these browns... even while playing sc2 last night,, i played the most horrible games ever to date.... ill give her a week or so until I make a decision to sell it..... I love the buid quality of the leopold, the friggin thing is built like a god damn tank.
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im starting to regret my purchase, I really wish I would have went with blues..... browns are not as quiet as I thought they would have been.... and I wish the browns were more tactile....
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give it time. keyboards take time to adjust to.
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im starting to regret my purchase, I really wish I would have went with blues..... browns are not as quiet as I thought they would have been.... and I wish the browns were more tactile....
If you find browns to be loud, why on earth would you think of getting blues, considering that blues are a LOT LOUDER than browns?
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If you find browns to be loud, why on earth would you think of getting blues, considering that blues are a LOT LOUDER than browns?
My guess would be to get the more tactile feel. I really doubt that can compensate the loudness of them though if you think browns are pushing it.
I got my Noppoo Mini Browns a few days ago, and while I love the feel I had a huge problem with typing on it (and same issue with the expected sound level). It gets to you though ... it's starting to do it for me
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If you find browns to be loud, why on earth would you think of getting blues, considering that blues are a LOT LOUDER than browns?
Not if you have a board with browns that rings when you type.
OP, does your board making a loud ringing noise when you type?
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OP, it would be a good idea to keep trying to type on the board for a while. The typos don't come from lack of tactility, but from the lightness of the switch. Browns are 20gms lighter than Macbook scissors, and you WILL make typos until you get used to the lightness and the profile of the keys. One day is nowhere near enough to get accustomed to that difference. Give it a week, as NumberJ and peda said, and only then make your mind up.
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If you think browns are loud, it just means you need to learn how not to bottom out.
Type lighter.
im starting to regret my purchase, I really wish I would have went with blues..... browns are not as quiet as I thought they would have been.... and I wish the browns were more tactile....
Sent from my EVO
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Also don't forget cherry switches register the keystroke half way through their travel. You don't have to squish them down like scissors and rubber domes. It's much healthier for you hands in the long run once you adjust to the reduced typing effort.
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just to repeat...you really have to get used to them. browns were my first mechanical and i sold it after a few days. was wayy too light (was used to bottom it out and hitting the keys real hard)
after venturing out i went back to browns and theyre my favorite switches now. your fingers have to adjust to the keyboard... to type properly on browns..you really only press it down about half way...you can get a nice rhythm going where your fingers just flow through it when typing..love the browns.
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I think they are just louder than what I expected them to be... after hearing videos and sound clips.... They dont do the browns justice when it comes to sound... yeah definatly not use to the lightness of the keys... and I just think the layout in general compared to the island style.... I just make sooo many typos on the Leo I almost feel semi retarded.
I dont really notice the tactileness either, unless I sit there press lightly and slowly and focus. Then I can feel her.... Thats why I think I would have ratherd the blue or clears... The noise doesnt bug me,, just saying its definatly louder than expected... And no it doesnt ping at all... I heard some of the filco pinging videos, and mine is a legit blue.
Hhah im not complaining about the noise just much louder than expected.... If this board came in a clear version, I think it would be the perfect board for me. It will just take me a few weeks to get use to it.... and it doesnt help that I am on my laptop 8 hours a day, and only at home on the keyboard 4-5 hours a day. So its going to take more time than usual. and no its not possible for me to bring my keyboard to work lol, i thought of it, but it doesnt seem logical to bring it, it would be a pain in the arse to drag around from site to site during the day.
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If browns make you sad buy ALPS. ( alot louder though)
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I think they are just louder than what I expected them to be... after hearing videos and sound clips.... They dont do the browns justice when it comes to sound... yeah definatly not use to the lightness of the keys... and I just think the layout in general compared to the island style.... I just make sooo many typos on the Leo I almost feel semi retarded.
Here is an easy fix: when typing, don't bottom out.
If you are a "heavy hitter", add an o-ring under each key. Search for o-ring on this site.
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If browns make you sad buy ALPS. ( alot louder though)
Yeah, could be you ain't a cherry person.
I know, go buckling springs! That right thar has some plenty good tactility. Certainly can't be beat by any cherry switch. Though I haven't tried ergos quite yet.
I think you'll find that if that board fits your definition of a tank every single mech board will too (barring, perhaps, pcb mount cherry boards).
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Buckling springs are not quiet. They are 50% louder than blue switches, which are 50% louder than brown switches. If the OP thinks browns are loud, I wouldn't recommend buckling springs.
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the orginal poster thinks browns are loud, but doesnt care for the noise (as in it doesnt bug me).... I was just saying I find the browns loud in comparison to what I have heard via youtube videos etc....
I think i am going to aim towards the Clears next, this is a killer keyboard, just wish it was a bit heavier and more tactile so I could feel it more distinctivly
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Since the noise of browns will come mostly from bottoming out, soft landing pads are an option. You might give them a try, before getting rid of the keyboard.
My first mech keyboard was a Leopold with cherry browns as well. Got it about a week ago, and I too couldn't type worth a damn with it at first. Got used to it after a few days, though, and now I really love it. You just need to get used to it. Don't concentrate on pressing lightly or typing especially slowly or trying not to bottom out. Just type as comes natural. Your fingers will adjust.
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I think the word for describing what buckling springs sound like is 'awesome'.
And if you can hear them, your metal isn't loud enough.
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well i fixed the typo error last night. When im on my laptop throughout the day at work, I have it a lower level... and my new desk the new keyboard sat about 4-5 inches higher than what I was use to. with my chair maxed out on how high it can go. I went out last night at staples and bought one of those 25 dollar keyboard attchements you can add to any desk or table. Wow what a world of a difference. back top typing fast and normal again... It didnt even really cross my mind that 3 inches would make a world of a differnce...... (thats what she said)
welll looks like problem is solved, actually the lightness wasnt the culprit to my massive typos afterall I am actually typing way better now than I ever did on my laptop. Now to just work on my beastly man fingers to stop from bottoming out. It friggin takes more energy and is more exhausting to try typing lighter. Im a competitive weightlifter/bodybuilder so it was probably not the best idea to get such a light of a key, me bottoming out is prolly defeating the whole purpose of this switch... I think now that I dont have to concentrate on making so many typos i can start feeling the bump ever so slightly. But I am still sooo damn curious to see what clears are like. That bump looks like it would make a world of a difference... Like the difference in feeling a Clit or a G-spot. One is noticable and one is ever so slightly noticeable.
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^^ Sex on the brain much?
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kwantz, it's great that you're finally typing well on the keyboard! Trying to not bottom out won't work, it'll only keep your hands more tense, do as somebody here (Saturn?) said, and don't focus on it, instead, just type naturally, and your fingers will eventually get used to the subtle tactility and lightness. Even if you're a bodybuilder, that doesn't mean you can't make subtle, light movements. It just means you CAN make very strong ones.
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I don't understand how someone can say browns are loud? The switches don't make any noise whatsoever. It's the user bottoming out that makes the noise, not the switches. Just do an o-ring or landling-pad mod and it'll be almost silent.
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I was using rubberdome keyboards for years and was automatically used to to my Das Silent with Cherry MX Browns. So maybe you just need to get use to the feel of the keyboard because you switched over from flats but as far as feeling the tactile feedback, just test them very slowly and they are easily felt. You will start to notice the tactile feel more and more as you get use to it. The only errors I was making was because of how much faster the repeat rate of PS/2 is compared to USB, after a while I am starting to get used to the repeat rate and start to enjoy my typing or gaming speeds more.
If you totally have you heart set on Cherry MX Clears then you would always take the springs from you browns and make some "Ergo" Clears. Which is what I am interested in. The guy who makes them says, "The feel of these switches is basically like a cherry brown with a much more noticeable tactile bump. If you like browns or even Topres but feel like you need more tactility, this may be the perfect switch for you."
Source: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:17248&highlight=clears
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Edit: doublepost
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Your experience is normal. After years of using rubber domes, every new user of mechanical keyboards tend to bottom out heavily. They don't know any other way than punching the keys.
When you are bottoming out, your fingers get the whole reaction force from the keyboards, and your fingers go longer. When your fingers realize that they can go only halfway on Cherry switches but the key still registers, you will type a lot lighter. And faster too.
Just give it more time. A month later you may feel that brown is the best switch, since you are typing on boobs and your fingers are having sex with your keyboard.
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Hey, I'm a Macbook to Cherry Brown switcher and I also found it a bit difficult to get used to not bottoming out when I typed, especially when typing/gaming at a fast pace. If you don't have a plate mounted board (less work without soldering/de-soldering) and want more of that tactile bump then you might find it easier to just make your Browns into Ergo Clears.
But you CAN train yourself to not bottom out and really feel the bump in Browns. Even if you don't, I made TONS of extra mistakes when I started with my keyboard. It's just SUCH a different feel, but before I learned how to type without bottoming out, I got used to typing a lot with the keyboard and found that my errors subsided after having more time with it.
And btw, NOT bottoming out is really the only way you're gonna reduce noise without buying the rubber o's or finding another switch entirely. If you're willing, TRAIN yourself to not bottom out by constantly trying to type quietly. It'll give you that lighter touch, and people around you may appreciate it. ^_^
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well I have a Leopold cherry brown.... less than a week old like I said.... How hard would the process be to change my keyboard in to cherry clears? and how expensive is the process??? ive seen a few videos of people just changing the stems and springs.... bt really is it that easy?
and where the heck do you get the gear from?
the more i type the slightly better i am getting with it,,,, and one of the posters wrote, "how the heck am I gettting sound from this???" Well my man going from a island style robber dome.... the ******* are soo silent even when you **** stab it, it doesnt yelp!. So the change is huge bro.... and like i said I dont care about sound, all I was stateing in the op was how different the sound was from the cherry browns i had heard on youtube vs the cherry browns im typing on.
I was just expecting a very quiet board similar to my rubbers. And no there isnt a ping. Well from what I can tell from the multiple filcos I have heard on video/audio files.
but The new angle I am loving my leopold on i think im hearing a squeeky in my back space key but only press it at the extream left corner.... the other corners are fine. also there is a tiny bit of resistance as well.. I donno if that is normal. This only happens when i press at the very very very very very bottom left corner??? is that normal
also if there is typos, I am slightly intoxicated, if not, **** yeah good for me.
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The backspace issue is one caused by the stabilizer, pressing it very far off-centre will cause squeaks and a higher resistance, you can try greasing the stabilizer to silence and lube it a bit.
Replacing stems on a Leopold (or any plate-mounted board) isn't trivial, it requires opening the board and desoldering every single switch. On a PCB-mounted board, it's much easier.
The clear stems can be found on Cherry boards that come with clears, usually the G80-8xxx series has browns or clears. Check the Great Finds subforum.
Here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cherry-MX-8000-POS-card-swipe-keyboard-PS2-WHITE-SWITCH-/330590827681?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%2BIA%2BUA%2BFICS%2BUFI%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D320722040204%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D2393305979740534451
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oh screw that noise lol... haha i didnt think it would be that much work and cost.... hopefully maybe one day there will be an alternative, but who knows maybe by then ill either have bought a blue or got use to these ones..... I love the **** out of the keyboard, its a little tank...... just has to get some use to i suppose.
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To clarify, greasing the stabilizer is easy, just pop the key off, and apply lube to the mechanism around the switch.
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Your experience is normal. After years of using rubber domes, every new user of mechanical keyboards tend to bottom out heavily. They don't know any other way than punching the keys.
When you are bottoming out, your fingers get the whole reaction force from the keyboards, and your fingers go longer. When your fingers realize that they can go only halfway on Cherry switches but the key still registers, you will type a lot lighter. And faster too.
Just give it more time. A month later you may feel that brown is the best switch, since you are typing on boobs and your fingers are having sex with your keyboard.
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Welcome to the club. Cherry browns are highly overrated. Soft-landing pads help though, if you are feeling geeky enough to spend an hour or so modding your board. They eliminate the harsh bottom-out clacks (but not the top-out ones)
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a
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Funnily enough browns are suggested by everyone to the newbies, and are at the same time the worst kind of cherry switches, likely the worst kind of any mechanical keyboard.
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the ****ers are soo silent even when you **** stab it, it doesnt yelp!
Best keyboard description I've ever heard XD
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Funnily enough browns are suggested by everyone to the newbies, and are at the same time the worst kind of cherry switches, likely the worst kind of any mechanical keyboard.
So what would you suggest to noobs? It can't be blues or buckling springs, because they're loud, and can't be used by everybody as a daily driver, also, some may find the hysterisis annoying, although they do feel nice. Clears are hard to find and heavy, ergo clears aren't trivial to make for noobs, and end up being expensive. ALPS are friction-y, espeically on older boards, reds and blacks are linear and that may not be liked by many people new to mechanicals, Topre is expensive and arguably not even mechanical, Space Invaders, Futabas, NEC's, and all the other obscure switches are well, obscure and hard to find. Browns are light and not very tactile. Please, tell us what you would recommend, considering that switch preference is a completely personal matter?
The fact of the matter is that many people want a solid board that isn't clicky, and for availability issues, people have to tell them to go for browns. Any noob could browse the forum and wikis, and make a relatively thorough opinion on most switches, without even using them.
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None of the alps I've used so far can be described as frictiony. Being mostly complicateds that also means they are old.
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ping
quack
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None of the alps I've used so far can be described as frictiony. Being mostly complicateds that also means they are old.
Some people have complained that ALPS bind on off-centre keypresses, that they're not as smooth as cherries, although less so for complicated ALPS, more so for simplified ALPS. (Did somebody say XMs?) However, looking at the last few threads on AT101s, people seem hesitant to recommend older black ALPS.
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Funnily enough browns are suggested by everyone to the newbies, and are at the same time the worst kind of cherry switches, likely the worst kind of any mechanical keyboard.
Absolutely your opinion. Having quite a bit of experience with all sorts of switches, from BS to nearly every Cherry to Topre I swear by Browns. So yeah, I disagree with you quite strongly.
Overrated? I guess. I'm sure ergo clears are awesome and I will try them eventually (would love a switch try going around with some) but I love my Browns and they're still the switch I recommend to anyone new to mechanicals, though I'll do blues if they REALLY want clicky.
My Filco brown with white PBTs is my favorite (overall/jack of all trades) board even after trying all the others. It's legit good.
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Absolutely your opinion.
Surely is not the Lady Gaga's or Mahatma Ghandi's opinion.
Having quite a bit of experience with all sorts of switches, from BS to nearly every Cherry to Topre I swear by Browns. So yeah, I disagree with you quite strongly.
Topre doesn't count being not a mechanical keyboard, BS and blues are clicky, so not direct competitors.
All in all you've tried just the reds, that surely have more personality than browns.
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So what would you suggest to noobs?
A worth microswitch KB or a good RD or scissor board.
What's the point to switch to mechanichal if the end result is worst than the one you can have with a good RD at a fraction of the cost ?
It can't be blues or buckling springs, because they're loud, and can't be used by everybody as a daily driver
If silence is a requirement, they can't
Clears are hard to find and heavy, ergo clears aren't trivial to make for noobs, and end up being expensive.
I can't agree here. On GH the default suggestion is 'get a brown filco !" a couple of cherry boards meant to have the ergo clears are less expensive than a single filco.
ALPS are friction-y, espeically on older boards
Alps are frictiony on worn boards, but browns means surely friction w/o pleasure.
Please, tell us what you would recommend, considering that switch preference is a completely personal matter?
More or less anything but the browns, being the worst compromise between all the competing features.
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So you're saying Topres shouldn't be in the Mechanical Switch poll because they aren't mechanical?
Either exclude the topre or include also the other good RD like the Olivetti, the Keytronic or whatever.
The word of the day is "brain"
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Three weeks. That's about the time i needed to truly rock my first mechanical.
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A worth microswitch KB or a good RD or scissor board.
What's the point to switch to mechanichal if the end result is worst than the one you can have with a good RD at a fraction of the cost ?
If you seriously compare MX browns with RD/scissors, then typing is not the primary objective you seek in a keyboard.
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If you seriously compare MX browns with RD/scissors,
Some RD and scissor boards aren't just better than a brown switch are hugely better, bad for you if you haven't tried one.
then typing is not the primary objective you seek in a keyboard
:pound:
What is not my main purpose is to blindly buy what some talibans are saying, for me a good keyboard is a good keyboard whatever is the technology under the hood, but looks like that only fanboys are well accepted by people like you.
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If you want a good RD, go for it. The majority of switches here are ones that you don't have to bottom out on to get actuation, or ones where the tactile bump actually coincides with the actuation. That's the major advantage of mechanical switches, you should know this. Go use an RD board or scissor board, but those are heavier than most cherry boards, and the effort on RDs is higher.
If you want to make remarks about how your opinion isn't Ghandi's, go to the off-topic board, not here where people are looking for help. It's not hard to say things that are unrelated and insulting, it seems to be hard for you to give advice without also insulting though. Everywhere you post, you're against everybody else's choices, which is totally alright, but don't go along flaming mechanicals on what is a mechanical keyboard forum, because nobody will care or listen. You live in Italy, correct? Of course the price will seem steep by Italian standards, hey, I'm Romanian, and any Romanian I tell I bought a $120 keyboard will think I'm crazy, but I can afford it. The same with Topre people. If they like it, and have the money, why is it my (or yours, because you're the one going on about how mechanicals are overpiced) business if they bought it and spent $400?
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Do you have chamomile in Romania ?
You should try it.
but don't go along flaming mechanicals on what is a mechanical keyboard forum
The only one that are flaming here are you, and no this is not a mechanical keyboard forum, at least this is what is written on the forum's title.
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I live in Canada, thanks. :P
Okay, not only mechanicals, but mostly. How many threads do you see about Rubber Domes? How many times have you seen a rubber dome board sell as quickly as a mechanical in the classifieds.
I'm not flaming, I haven't insulted you once this whole thread. I've stated my opinion, as opposed to you calling us talibans, telling us the word of the day is "brain," suggesting I try chamomile. That's in a few of yours. Disagreeing is fine, being rude is another.
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I live in Canada, thanks. :P
How many times have you seen a rubber dome board sell as quickly as a mechanical in the classifieds.
And this means what ?
Btw we aren't discussing about mechanicals here we are discussing about MX browns, do you remember ?
So whats the point in shifting the discussion to a stupid mechanical vs ROW ?
I haven't insulted you once this whole thread.
Flaming doesn't imply insulting
I've stated my opinion, as opposed to you calling us talibans
Us ? :twitch:
I call talibans the talibans, the integralists, call them whatever you like. If you feel you are part of that category...
telling us the word of the day is "brain," suggesting I try chamomile.
Never heard anything about irony, jokes and so on ?
I replied to Ripster that at least (sometime) has a bit of sense of humor, where's the problem ? and why you feel involved ?
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Some RD and scissor boards aren't just better than a brown switch are hugely better, bad for you if you haven't tried one.
When RDs start actuating halfway on travel we can also start talking about proper tactility. Until then you're just a raving lunatic.
And, yes, MX brown is good all-around switch.
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When RDs start actuating halfway on travel we can also start talking about proper tactility.
What has to do the tactility with the actuation point ?
A brown switch has crap tactility and actuates halfway, an Olivetti board has an awesome tactility and actuates at the bottom, an XM switch has a decent tactility and actuates at the beginning.....
And btw the actuation point placed halfway is more a side effect than a pro, call it with a neutral "feature" if you want, but surely is not an advantage.
Do you remember where is the actuation point on the mechanical typewriters ?
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And btw the actuation point placed halfway is more a side effect than a pro, call it with a neutral "feature" if you want, but surely is not an advantage.
At least for me personally, that is a huge advantage and the main appeal of the mechanical-switch keyboards. It's why I fondly remember using Model M's back in the day; why I searched a couple out and used them at home, and why I eventually found my way to this forum, in an attempt to find an open-office-friendly keyboard that would maintain the features that I found so appealing about the M but without the clacketiness.
My theory is that I started to develop fatigue in my hands after typing on a RD keyboard all day due to having to bottom out the keys to get them to register. Since I've been typing on Cherry switch based boards, my hands feel much better. I attribute that to the actuation point not being at the bottom of the travel, and to a lesser extent the tactile point roughly corresponding to the actuation point.
Now that's just for me personally, but for me, a board can be as tactile and wonderful feeling as it can get, but if I bottom out when typing, I don't like it. It's why I don't like RDs - because I have to bottom out - and it's also why I don't like Alps - because I may not have to bottom out, but I end up doing it anyway, because the force required to actuate the switch is just about the same force that will send the key to the bottom.
And no, I'm not a HUGE fan of browns, although I think that if I gave myself enough adjustment period, I could get used to the ones on the Noppoo Choc Pro. For reasons I can't explain, they're the most tactile browns I've typed on (several used Cherry boards and a Filco being my other experiences with them.) I do like the clears, probably because I've become used to a heavier switch. I also like blues and ergo clears because they feel more tactile to me than browns, although the noise of the blues becomes a little annoying after a while.
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At least for me personally, that is a huge advantage and the main appeal of the mechanical-switch keyboards.
This is your respectable opinion. and perhaps I haven't told that I don't agree with this preference. What I said is that isn't written anywhere that bottoming out is bad, is matter of personal preferences and personal habits.
You started with model M and you feel natural the halfway activation, I've started with the Ti99, ZX spectrum, QL, Envision, and the Olivetti boards and all of them actuate at the bottom.
Ther's no right or wrong behavior here, there's a personal preference, that's the point.
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This is your respectable opinion. and perhaps I haven't told that I don't agree with this preference. What I said is that isn't written anywhere that bottoming out is bad, is matter of personal preferences and personal habits.
You started with model M and you feel natural the halfway activation, I've started with the Ti99, ZX spectrum, QL, Envision, and the Olivetti boards and all of them actuate at the bottom.
Ther's no right or wrong behavior here, there's a personal preference, that's the point.
Whereas you started with:
Funnily enough browns are suggested by everyone to the newbies, and are at the same time the worst kind of cherry switches, likely the worst kind of any mechanical keyboard.
And my preference is that cherry browns are the perfect middle of the road switch. Hell, it's what I use 90% of the time at home here and I have a perfectly good Realforce sitting right next to me (which I also love but for totally different reasons).
You should really go through the thread and read what you say. On one hand you make basically flame everyone and then you just say "oh it's all preference who cares." Seriously, I fear you're bipolar or something.
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Cherry browns are pretty great! They're cheaper than (also great) topres. They're smoother than most ALPS. They won't make your fingers fall off like 80g buckling springs.
Browns have just enough tactility to orient you, not too much. They work well if you touch type with small muscle movements. If you hunt and peck with your triceps, you'll bottom out on browns. That's not the switches' fault.
EDIT. My complaint about browns is that Cherry Corp. builds them into very few Cherry-branded keyboards. What's that about?
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And my preference is that cherry browns are the perfect middle of the road switch.
Middle of the road are the ergo clears
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Browns have just enough tactility to orient you, not too much. They work well if you touch type with small muscle movements. If you hunt and peck with your triceps, you'll bottom out on browns. That's not the switches' fault.
Is technology that must serve the humans, not viceversa.
If you have to force yourself to type in an unnatural way that technology is just wrong.
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That implies that all humans are alike and absolute, with no flexibility. This is why we have preferences. I like lighter switches, my next door neighbor, Bob, doesn't. But I can and will type on heavy switches because my body WILL adapt to it.
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well update, as the days go on with this keepboard i am starting to like it more and more, I am naturally starting to type less hard. Still bottoming out but no where near as bad as I was at first. I say im like 90% there though as compared to typing on my island style mech. I give her another week and hopefully Iw ill be typing a lot better on this leopold than on my laptop. If I were to replace the keys on my stock leopold, would it make the bottoming out less noticeable? or just does it make it a deeper thud or clack???
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You should try to pick up some cheap ALPS board somewhere just to try it. You could be missing out on your favorite switch if you never try.
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Different keycpas will change the pitch more than the volume. For volume reduction, o-rings or soft-landing pads would be best!
Glad to hear you're adjusting!
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I had the same issue. When I got my Browns I wasn't blown away like I thought I would be. They were louder than I thought and dull. I don't mind the sound so I replaced it with Blues. I'm much happier with these switches.
The noise isn't nearly as loud as some would say. I got used to not bottoming out quickly on the blues because of the click.
Also, my keyboard did ring/ping. That sucked.
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Browns have just enough tactility to orient you, not too much. They work well if you touch type with small muscle movements. If you hunt and peck with your triceps, you'll bottom out on browns. That's not the switches' fault.
Is technology that must serve the humans, not viceversa.
If you have to force yourself to type in an unnatural way that technology is just wrong.
Hunt and peck is bad for you. It's how I learned to type, with no instruction, at age 5. It's inherently high impact, regardless of switch, it'll make your hands fall off after a few decades. There are better ways.
Colemak layout, touch typing, ergo form factor, and light switches -- this is how I'm beating RSI, with low impact typing. Cherry browns work great here.
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Hunt and peck is bad for you. It's how I learned to type, with no instruction, at age 5. It's inherently high impact, regardless of switch, it'll make your hands fall off after a few decades. There are better ways.
There's always a better way, in any human activity, but given the limited resource and time everyone choose his priorities.
I learned to type when I was 6 year old, and I learned on a mechanical typewriter, so I like a good tactility and I'm more used to the activation at bottom, although I don't dislike the activation halfway and i like a lot the activation on top like on the XM switches.
Colemak layout, touch typing, ergo form factor, and light switches -- this is how I'm beating RSI, with low impact typing. Cherry browns work great here.
Have you tried blues, ergo clears or reds ? Are you comparing the brown switches with other kind of cherry switches or it's meant as generic comparison between mechanical and rubber dome ?
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Why are you keep recommending ergo clears. Half of the geekhackers who tried that mod complains about sticking switches. I would never recommend a mod with such a high failure rate...
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Half? I recall like 2 complaints about that. I've experienced it. It's sporadic and the switches typically right themselves in a second.
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I read dozens of complaints about that. Maybe you just decided to ignore them because you are a fanboy.
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Half? I recall like 2 complaints about that. I've experienced it. It's sporadic and the switches typically right themselves in a second.
You should start a custom switch service KL, where people ship you their board, you desolder all the switches, replace the springs, and resolder them again before sending it back. For reasonable compensation, of course.
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Why are you keep recommending ergo clears.
Because is the best cherry MX switch.
Simple as that.
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Man up. Cherry black is the best.
Of course the switch poll indicates otherwise.
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Also If you quote someone do it right!
Why are you keep recommending ergo clears. Half of the geekhackers who tried that mod complains about sticking switches. I would never recommend a mod with such a high failure rate...
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Man up. Cherry black is the best.
Of course the switch poll indicates otherwise.
If the pols have to indicate something right we will never had Bush, Berlusconi, Hitler or Mussolini.
Also If you quote someone do it right!
I think is more a placebo effect than a real problem, I don't have any sticking switches aside of a couple of defective ones quickly replaced before star to use the keyboard.
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Man up. Cherry black is the best.
Of course the switch poll indicates otherwise.
Most of the people in the switch polls probably vote for what they have regardless of whether they've tried any other switches or not. But I find cherry blacks too stiff personally. And (plate mounted) browns feel too light. I haven't tried blues yet but want to. If only they made more White Duckys!
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There's always a better way, in any human activity, but given the limited resource and time everyone choose his priorities.
Have you tried blues, ergo clears or reds ? Are you comparing the brown switches with other kind of cherry switches or it's meant as generic comparison between mechanical and rubber dome ?
Yes, everyone chooses their priorities. Pain was threatening my career, so I learned to type a better way.
I've tried various ALPS, buckling springs, cherry browns, and variable topres. Browns and topres are the most comfortable among those, I like the actuation force below 50g and the subtle tactility.
Reds and blues must be nice too, but I've not tried them.
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Reds and blues must be nice too, but I've not tried them.
Be sure to give blues a try, even just for the curiosity. I know where you come from, so it's more than a general advice. Even if the effect on your RSI is unknown, you will love the tactility.
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If you like Browns you might love Reds! For RSI gentleness especially they do a great job. The slight tactility of Browns edge them out for gaming for me but for pure typing I love Reds very much!
Blues are...interesting. I like em...no plans on selling the board (in fact I just ordered new keys for it), but that board gets the least amount of use for me. Dunno. They're good, though, and I can see how people can love them.
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Reds and blues must be nice too, but I've not tried them.
I'm glad you like the Realforce. If you get a chance, try the reds. They are the only switch I can type on non-stop with no hand fatigue or pain.
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I got the filco 45 gram browns and found that my fingers started to hurt after long game play. But, on the topre 55 gram my fingers did not hurt. Maybe I'm bottoming out on the filco browns. And the tactical feel? hardly felt it. Waiting on the leopod 45gram reds, hoping that would feel better.
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I got the filco 45 gram browns and found that my fingers started to hurt after long game play. But, on the topre 55 gram my fingers did not hurt. Maybe I'm bottoming out on the filco browns. And the tactical feel? hardly felt it. Waiting on the leopod 45gram reds, hoping that would feel better.
I think you are correct. Your fatigue on the browns likely comes from bottoming out. On the Topre you have this luscious cup rubber underneath that makes for a soft landing even if you do bottom out.
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I read dozens of complaints about that. Maybe you just decided to ignore them because you are a fanboy.
Nope. Never saw them.
Dozens? Prove it.
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Funnily enough browns are suggested by everyone to the newbies, and are at the same time the worst kind of cherry switches, likely the worst kind of any mechanical keyboard.
I'm typing this on brown Cherry switches so, of course, I don't understand. Why brown cherries? I'd think, if you were going after cherry as the "worst", you go with either red or black. Brown makes no sense at all. Very light and tactile and I don't think I type faster on anything else I've touched, but just maybe Alps.
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Even though I'm coming from a completely different point of view than the Solutor (who doesn't like linear switches) I too found browns the worst Cherry MX switch for my taste. I like the smoothness of reds and black switches, I appreciate the tactility of blues, but browns??? They are just gritty to me. Not tactile enough to tell if you actuated them or not when you type fast, and an unpleasant feeling of friction when you type slow. I've used browns for years and never got to like them... the Kinesis Advantage with reds was a phenomenal improvement for me over the regular one with browns.
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The soluter as we know him. He doesn't know the meaning of the word preference
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and i'm the opposite of sordna, i like the most tactile available so that's clears, and i turn off the speaker on the kinesis (since we both use the kinesis now, i view it as two opposing ends).
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and i'm the opposite of sordna, i like the most tactile available so that's clears, and i turn off the speaker on the kinesis (since we both use the kinesis now, i view it as two opposing ends).
Actually, I like tactile switches (as well as linears), I like mx blues and buckling springs... it's the browns I don't like.
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That's good input peoples! I didn't realize there was a contingent out there who actually disliked brown switches. Obviously I don't understand why you don't like them, because I love them!
Thank you!
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That's good input peoples! I didn't realize there was a contingent out there who actually disliked brown switches. Obviously I don't understand why you don't like them, because I love them!
Thank you!
seconded. i type on Blues at work and i'm actually growing to dislike them more and more. my keyboard with browns feels more natural to me.
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But it if pings you think it's just a breaking in period right ?
Ironically my Wyse 60 pings like a mofo and it's like 20 yrs of broken in.
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wouldn't know. The only keyboard I've had that I've observed a ping-like-effect in was my Matias Tactile Pro. And I may be assuming ping because it just makes so MUCH racket.
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Like many have said, just give it a while. maybe a week or two. You will cringe when you go back to your laptop keyboard
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Actually, I like tactile switches (as well as linears), I like mx blues and buckling springs... it's the browns I don't like.
i was trying to make a cool point! (but who doesn't love BS, they are my fav switches too).
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Browns aren't bad by any means they are just no fun. =P
To me mechanical has to have that sharp click and that snappy feel you get from clicky ALPS/MX Blue and such.
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Yes, everyone chooses their priorities. Pain was threatening my career, so I learned to type a better way.
I've tried various ALPS, buckling springs, cherry browns, and variable topres. Browns and topres are the most comfortable among those, I like the actuation force below 50g and the subtle tactility.
Reds and blues must be nice too, but I've not tried them.
jpc - I'm the one that you purchased the variable Realforce from. I'm glad to hear you like it. Due to your RSI, I highly recommend you try the MX reds. I like a light switch and I really feel they are the best out there for me. I also will tend to have some wrist pain when typing a lot all day and if I'm also working into the evening. The reds work the best for me overall. I like the quiet typing and if you really want complete silence, you can use the sound dampening pads. The touch is really so light and I find myself barely touching the keys and just gliding over them. I have both both the full sized Filco and Tenkeyless and also the Poker with reds. I like the Poker without any sound dampening as the keys against the plastic plate is really a nice sound/feel in itself when I do bottom out.
Seriously you should try the reds when you get a chance - I think you will really like them and they definitely won't play into any RSI issues.
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Browns aren't bad by any means they are just no fun.
+1
Browns are trying to be the medium choice that offends no-one and in the process fail to have any strong features so they fail to have a strong character to force a love it / hate it reaction.
The fun starts when you start to make choices that have strong features (very light / very heavy / very loud / whatever) and in that lack of compromise comes true character and provides something to react to and/or against.
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Don't the browns fit the Very light bill and with bottoming out Very loud ? People say blues are louder , but I find that they just seem higher "pitched" rather than louder. Someone on here I think ( ripster or Keyboardlover? ) actually did a recording with a visual spectrum of the sound waves.
I see what your point is , but sometimes I think that ends up turning people off because it's so drastic. To me a Brown or a Blue is a great " first Mech" switch. Then at that point get into some of the others for the fun and extremes.
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To me a Brown or a Blue is a great " first Mech" switch. Then at that point get into some of the others for the fun and extremes.
Totally agree. (Actually completely agree with everything you said but if I comment on everything then this post will go on forever.)
Browns are the MX 'entry drug'.
Once the initial shock of paying $100+ for a keyboard is over and the advantages of a the mech switch is proved ('cause if it is disproved then the person will probably just go back to RD boards) then it is time to try out the other more distinctive switches with browns as the benchmark to refer back to.
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To me a Brown or a Blue is a great " first Mech" switch. Then at that point get into some of the others for the fun and extremes.
+1
For me I think Blue's are the starting points... and funny enough, from a few post I've read on here. The return point as well! I got rid of my BWU blue's and now typing on Black's and though I LOVE the Cherry Black's, I do miss the sound of the Blue's. Hence ordering the Ducky Shine in Blue's...
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That's good input peoples! I didn't realize there was a contingent out there who actually disliked brown switches. Obviously I don't understand why you don't like them, because I love them!
Thank you!
The Solutor's main complaint about them is that they try to have aspects of almost all other switches and then fails to do any of them correctly. In other words an attempted jack-of-all-trades that falls short. That's why he pushes ergo clears so much, because of how much more you're supposed to be able to feel the tactility (I haven't tried those yet, but I'm about to start experimenting with panda clears (using black springs instead) first). I happen to completely agree with him.
I generally like tactility. I've used/tried all sorts switches so far (acers/bs/space invader, so on). In order to feel any tactility from browns I have to type waaay too slowly, and if I don't do that I'd almost prefer they were fully linear because it just seems strange what the result is. I don't even think I'd like linear (I don't like the idea of them at all, but I have not used them. Similar to how I knew I wouldn't like browns to begin with just from all the descriptions I've read. I gave them a fair shot of several weeks and it always just felt off no matter what way I was using it.) boards either. The result is that if I had to choose today a single switch it would never be browns.
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MX Browns > *
This is coming from a guy who has spent TONS of time with EACH switch.
It's all subjective, but experience counts for something. For instance, if you're buying a car, would you rather trust the opinion of Michael Schumacher or some jerk off the street who prefers bicycles?
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Before or after his foray into competitive motorcycle racing? I don't think he's been quite right since.
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irrelevant.
and actually I didn't know he raced motorcycles. I just picked Schumacher 'cuz he's the stig lol
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MX Browns > *
And this is coming from a guy with a Model M as his avatar.
Strong recommendation.