geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: oneproduct on Tue, 30 August 2011, 11:12:22
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From the mechanical keyboard guide, it says that reds are generally not liked by typists, but lately there have been a lot of pokers with reds and even some of the kinesis people here have managed to get hold of reds and nearly everyone seems to like them. I've only tried blues so far and am looking to get a kinesis just for typing, not really much gaming. I'm not sure now whether to get browns which are sort of an accepted standard for typing in a sense or get reds for their smoothness of activation which may be a bit easier on the fingers. I don't have any RSI problems or the like and am worried about making a 300$ mistake by getting the wrong switches. Are reds actually that good for typing? I'm sort of worried that people are a bit hyped about them when they just get them but am intrigued by the potential for a light, smooth switch.
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There are lots of geekhackers that prefer reds, and many that prefer browns. Some say the brown feels friction-y, and that the smoothness of the reds is superior. On the Kinesis, you can have a speaker "click" with each keypress, so tactility may not be as important. It's a matter of preference that we can't decide for you.
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@ripster
Yea, I was in fact referring to OCN's guide. It's made me sort of worry about it, but I fell less worried with your revelation. Also just picked up the new Kensington trackball from the post office, about to record an unboxing. :)
@Arcanius
Bummer, I wish there were an easier way to try them all out somehow
I know it has a lot of preference going on about it but if anyone has any insights after having used both, I would be more than happy to hear them before I make a decision.
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For me reds are great for typing, because just pushing the switch a little bit, your keystroke is almost guaranteed to register. Plus with the audible-click of the Kinesis turned on, it almost feels tactile! Love my Kinesis LF with the red switches, highly HIGHLY recommended.
Input Nirvana who is the only other person I know that tried red switches on a Kinesis (and unlike me didn't have a problem with the browns being frictiony) also reported he likes the reds on it.
On the Kinesis contoured, because the keys are positioned in various angles in the "bowls", gravity doesn't always help you, you don't push the keys straight down as with other keyboards. Some you push down, some you push slightly forward, some you push (or pull) slightly backward, notably the arrow and [] keys. These varied motions are easier to carry out with the lighter red cherry switches.
Of course, personal preferences may overcome the above arguments, so YMMV, but I honestly think the red switches on the Kinesis Advantage is a perfect match, except maybe for people that are heavy handed and can't adjust to typing lightly.
Anyway, owning 6 Kinesises (2 of them with reds, 4 with browns) I use both regularly, and reds are by far my favorites.
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I just got my Noppoo Choc Mini with Cherry Reds yesterday and I love typing with it. The keys are super light and it's not as bothersome as the blues to others. One thing is that it is much easier to bottom out while typing on the reds than the blues but I don't really care. The linear actuation on the reds is simply smooth as butter. :)
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Oneproduct: I don't think you'll go wrong with either switch, although usually people recommend browns for a first mechanical switch. I just got my brown board in 20 minutes ago, and I love the feel of the switches, more so than blues or buckling springs. I've tried blacks, and the lack of any tactility is a bit bothersome, although enjoyable in its own right.
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Knowing what switch to get can be maddening. Experience is the only answer, you have to type on them. Litster and I (I'm lagging) are putting 2 keypad-switch-try-units together so people can type on a couple of each switch to get a very good idea of what they might prefer.
I like the browns. I like the reds. I sort of wish I only liked one of them. I don't have RSI. As soon as I switch to one or the other board, I'm digging it, back and forth, makes no difference. Weird. I've been unfortunately very preoccupied and uninterested the last month or two, but maybe in the future I'll commit to one. I'm not so positive getting one or the other would be a mistake, but some people really hate some switches. Experience. Sorry not able to give you an easier answer, I want that same easy answer too :)
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On the Kinesis contoured, because the keys are positioned in various angles in the "bowls", gravity doesn't always help you, you don't push the keys straight down as with other keyboards. Some you push down, some you push slightly forward, some you push (or pull) slightly backward, notably the arrow and [] keys. These varied motions are easier to carry out with the lighter red cherry switches.
Ended up going with the reds and at first I was somewhat regretful when I first tried them and wished that I had gone with browns but after using them for awhile I would say that for this reason that you mentioned that they are actually probably the best choice for the Kinesis contoured. There was some talk about the learning curve of the Kinesis taking a long time but I just wanted to mention that I've had it for 5 days and my record on a normal keyboard is 102 WPM and my record on the Kinesis so far is 97 WPM and the variance there is pretty negligible. Hotkeys on the other hand are still giving me a fair bit of trouble. This is very comfortable to use as well, I don't have any serious medical problems but typing on a normal keyboard for a long time would make my wrists hurt a little bit from curving inward after awhile and the Kinesis has eliminated this.
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it's not actually even that big of a deal, imo, if you really wanted to try browns on the kinesis either buy a new brown keyboard for under 100 or so, or wait a bit on ebay and find a good deal on a used brown keyboard, then you can easily swap, and since the kinesis isn't plate mounted, popping off the stems and swapping is easy enough.
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Knowing what switch to get can be maddening. Experience is the only answer, you have to type on them. Litster and I (I'm lagging) are putting 2 keypad-switch-try-units together so people can type on a couple of each switch to get a very good idea of what they might prefer.
I like the browns. I like the reds. I sort of wish I only liked one of them. I don't have RSI. As soon as I switch to one or the other board, I'm digging it, back and forth, makes no difference. Weird. I've been unfortunately very preoccupied and uninterested the last month or two, but maybe in the future I'll commit to one. I'm not so positive getting one or the other would be a mistake, but some people really hate some switches. Experience. Sorry not able to give you an easier answer, I want that same easy answer too :)
Yeah having tried both (and I've used coworkers' red/brown Kinesisi) I give the reds a slight edge on a Kinesis since you're hitting the keys from all sorts of different angles. Both great switches, though!
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Ended up going with the reds and at first I was somewhat regretful when I first tried them and wished that I had gone with browns but after using them for awhile I would say that for this reason that you mentioned that they are actually probably the best choice for the Kinesis contoured. There was some talk about the learning curve of the Kinesis taking a long time but I just wanted to mention that I've had it for 5 days and my record on a normal keyboard is 102 WPM and my record on the Kinesis so far is 97 WPM and the variance there is pretty negligible. Hotkeys on the other hand are still giving me a fair bit of trouble. This is very comfortable to use as well, I don't have any serious medical problems but typing on a normal keyboard for a long time would make my wrists hurt a little bit from curving inward after awhile and the Kinesis has eliminated this.
CONGRATULATIONS! Finally, a fellow Advantage LF user! Maintaining your speed from the start pretty impressive, I bet you're going to improve past your old record soon though :-)
it's not actually even that big of a deal, imo, if you really wanted to try browns on the kinesis either buy a new brown keyboard for under 100 or so, or wait a bit on ebay and find a good deal on a used brown keyboard, then you can easily swap, and since the kinesis isn't plate mounted, popping off the stems and swapping is easy enough.
Actually, the "bowls" have the switches mounted sort of like a plate, are you sure they can be popped open ?
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ah your right, was looking at thumbs, and last time you told me those were called keywells! guess if you really want to try, it'll be desolder then replace.
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Get reds!!! Browns smell.
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Kinesis has built tens of thousands of contoured boards with brown switches. Two of them are mine. They're my daily drivers. I typed on them while recovering from pain. Great boards. You can get them in clean used condition for much cheaper than buying new.
The brown switches are lighter than 95% of everything. The tactility helps me avoid bottoming out. If you prefer tactile switches to linear on a flat keyboard, I don't think you would regret a Kinesis with browns.
Disclaimer, I haven't tried reds! :/
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Haha, I used the regular Kinesis for years, and I found the red a HUGE improvement. No more frictiony feeling!
I could never feel the browns tactile point properly anyway, turning on the click-sound is a much more effective typing feedback for me.
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i'm missing the ergo clears so i guess later tonite if i find time, it'll be time to desolder lots of switches, only gonna do character letters/thumb area/ and movement (basically everything but numbers and like tab/capslock) but then they're only like 15 extra keys...
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I thought I saw sordna post somewhere that you can also get a set of red keywells from Kinesis for $90 ... which is something I might try out at some point, but I'll spend some time with the brown's first. I have browns on my Das and I'm enjoying them. I do like the actual tactile "feel" as much as I like the click sound so I don't know how I would feel about reds.
Still waiting on my Kinesis I bought from Input Nirvana to arrive (been sitting stuck at customs for almost a week :( )