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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Canious on Wed, 28 September 2011, 04:15:17
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Greetings everyone, first post.
Just like rest of the community I have been eye-ballin this forum for about two weeks and about three weeks ago i pulled the trigger and ordered my first Mechanical keyboard Filco Majesto Touch 2 Brown TKL from amazon. I had extremely high expectations of filco and the whole idea/feel for mechanical keyboard in general (all the hype from various forums) and seemed like general consensus was that brown was the "way to go". I've also watched numerous you-tube videos/reviews and sound files to listen to each and every switches (especially the brown). I mainly bought it for typing essays and doing moderate gaming purposes.
I have to say i was rather disappointed the moment i laid my fingers on the filco - i guess im not satisifed with the switches..? I was hoping more of a crisp light keystroke but feels rather stiff and tight. I gave it a week and it began to grew on me but quite honestly i don't really enjoy typing on it. I will point out that it did help me improve my WPM (from 105 to 117) I'm a college student and i write a lot essays and i realized that my fingers do get tiresome after couple hours of typing. At this point I'm regretting getting the browns - I'm looking into getting a new mechanical keyboard, however, this time either blue or red. After doing some extensive research seems like red would satisfiy my needs - if possible i would like to get an input/feedback from anyone here that have switched to red switches from brown. I just want to know if i would like it a lot better, as oppose to blues... i know their two different switch types and feel/purpose but i just want less fatigue on my hands and just generally "feel good" when typing.
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It seems you are a 'light touch' typist.
Is that right?
Are you regularly bottoming out the browns (which could be one reason for tired fingers)?
Or are you hardly ever bottoming out the browns (so the tiredness is simply from pressing the keys)?
If you are a light typist then the reds are definitely going to be a better option if you won't miss the tactile aspect of the browns.
If you are bottoming the browns out then perhaps the blues with even greater tactile response may help you with that and thereby result in less tiredness despite being, if anything, tighter and stiffer than the browns.
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Duncan's questions are very insightful.
People here at this forum have to buy at least 10 different brands and switches to realize that there is no keyboards that will satisfy them.
But then it is too late, they have already become keyboard experts and collectors.
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do you like the bump/tactile or not? i busted my fingers using ghetto reds cuz i bottomed out all the time (trying them out for a week, replacing browns), i thought i could get used to it, i even tried the home row on a kinesis using the speaker generated sounds (before my board seemed to break and i just desoldered the speaker) and that didn't help. Ultimately i went with ergo clears (more bumpy browns).
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I am really looking forward to getting a Filco TKL in Browns. I bottom out alot and like the sound of them. I was a bit disapointed in the blues because I really LIKE the stiffer tight feel of keys ( like the Cherry blacks ) and the blues feel a little different but mostly due to audio cues I think.
Based on your description My fiance' is likely about to kill me for another purchase so soon. I need to figure out the best spin to make her think it's just so she can enjoy the blues in Typeracer while I am gaming..... But she will want to take it to her house.... and that just ain't gonna happen.
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People here at this forum have to buy at least 10 different brands and switches
You say that like it is a bad thing LOL.
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I think that brand new browns probably require a "break in" period before they feel really good. Additionally the user needs to become accustomed to them as they are so much lighter than the rubber dome switches that said user is likely used to using. I'd give it a couple weeks and see how you like them then.
If friction is still a problem after a break in period, you may want to look into lubing the sliders. Since you can't disassemble the switches, you're probably looking at getting a micro-oiler and some sort of lube to put in it. What that lube should be could be a whole 'nother thread :)
If you're OK with the friction, but there's something else bothering you about the switches, post back. It may be that there's another switch that may be better suited to you. The good news is that a nearly-new Filco w/ browns shouldn't be that hard to flog in the classifieds if that is the case (or if you decide you want something like clears or ergos you may decide to use it as a base for modding. I'm using an ex-browns Filco right now with clears and Cherry Corp. keycaps and IMHO it's the best "quiet" board that I've ever typed on.)
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browns suck
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People here at this forum have to buy at least 10 different brands and switches to realize that there is no keyboards that will satisfy them.
But then it is too late, they have already become keyboard experts and collectors.
This makes Enoy21's baby bankaccount cry.
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Try typing on it more, I'm using Browns too and they really grew on me after around 2-3 weeks of use. If you think its really not the switch for you go for blues if
you want a lighter touch and a crisper click
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I thought blues were a little more heavy spzz
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If i were you, I would definitely go try Topre Realforce keyboards
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I thought blues were a little more heavy spzz
Correct.
Check here: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+switches+and+boards
Blue:
click, Actuation Force 50cN, Peak Force 60cn
Brown:
soft tactile (ergonomic), Actuation Force 45cN, Peak Force 55cn
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Wow, I can't imagine thinking the Browns are too stiff and tiring. A lot of people think the Browns/Reds are too sensitive or too light. They require about 45g actuation force, don't rubber domes generally require 50+?
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Are you sure you are not bottoming out? That can be very tiring on your fingers. The brown switches are very light and it's easy to bottom out on them.
You may like blues, I think they are a lot more fun to type on, especially when plate mounted, compared to browns.
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That reminds me of myself 3 weeks ago. I was so hyped to get my fingers on Das Silent with browns.
Having read all those forums I thought that once I lay my fingers on the board I'll feel orgasm right away and my work day will be more like being high all day. F5 on my previous keyboard barely survived the days I've spent on the UPS site tracking my package.
So I got the keyboard, unboxed it, connected to PC and started typing... noting happened. No wows, no orhasm, just keys that stick a little bit when pushed half-way. I even tried to compare it to my super-old microsoft keyboard and didn't feel that Das is so much better.
I was disappointed and wanted to return the keyboard, but I decided to give it a shot and bring it to work.
Now, 3 weeks later, I really-really-really like my new keyboard. Now it will be really hard for me to go back to using regular rubber-dome. I don't know if my typing style has changed or something, but I'm super-happy with the way the board feels.
Bottom line: give it more time and you'll learn to love it.
P.S. Same story happened with Meka G1 (cherry mx blacks) which I bought earlier. I've grown to love it, just in it's own way.
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^^^ this is pretty much how I was with my WASD in cherry blues ( see reviews section ) The more I type on it and spend time with it , the harder and harder it is not to tote it around with me to work to type on ( my fiance' says it's my new wooby ).
A Quote from the Ripster kept coming to mind the night that I first connected it " .... afterall , it's just a keyboard "
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The main problem with doing research on a product before you buy it is that you've done research on it before you've bought it. Then your head ends up filling with all this hype which no product could ever possibly live up to. Then you receive it, try it out... and are disappointed. Happiness is a function of our expectations.
Then again, it could be that browns aren't right for you, too.
Just makes me think of people who buy a certain keyboard because they're convinced it'll make their RSI go away. Ultimately they have to confront the fact that they're not buying a cure to RSI. They're just buying a keyboard.
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yeah, it's just a keyboard... kind of like a power drill is just a power drill. A new half-inch Milwaukee isn't going to change your life. However, once you've gotten used to it, just you try going back to the 20 year old 3/8" Craftsman with the wobbly front bushing and POS keyless chuck that you stole from your dad when you moved out :)
seriously, that's about how I look at it. I don't particularly obsess over keyboards, although my roommate thinks that I do. I do hang out here because I find the info/conversations interesting. I do have a good keyboard for everywhere that I regularly use a computer. Just like power tools, I figure that if I'm going to spend as much of my life using a keyboard as I do, it'd better be a good one. And just like power-tools, the consumer-grade ones that are readily available are pretty much, in my opinion, crap, and not up to the standards of even the consumer-grade ones of 20-25 years ago. Since I have a job and make enough money to afford it, I don't mind spending the extra $$$ for professional-grade tools that don't piss me off every time I use them. And again, just like power tools, the problem is actually sourcing said professional-grade keyboards.
No, a Filco isn't going to change your life and make your fingertips explode with little fingertip-orgasms every time you knock out an angry email to an unruly customer. What it will do, is not piss you off.
Then again, I have no explanation for the red ESC key and the RGB kit. Maybe I did go a little overboard. Oh well, who cares? It's just an attempt to bring a little class and vintage style into my otherwise dreary and corporate-vanilla workplace. (now if I could just get them to let me not get another new POS Chevy or Ford company car and buy me an old BMW 3.0CSi for work instead, that'd be spectacular. I think I probably will have to settle for a pimped-out keyboard and maybe a couple potted plants though.)
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When I got my first mechanical keyboard I didn't feel that it was much better but rather, a few weeks later, I realized how mushy rubber domes felt and that was what made me love mechanicals.
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I bought my first mechanical a few weeks ago for home use, but never felt a huge difference right away since 80% of my typing was still being done at the office on my work laptop's built-in keyboard. It wasn't until I brought my Filco browns to work on a whim for one day that I REALLY started to feel the difference. The standard scissor switches that I used to prefer over the Dell rubber dome keyboard that I turned down, now feel mushy and have become an absolute last resort. My "just this once" decision to try out the mechanical at work is now a daily necessity! I just hope my Filco handles the commute well enough while I decide on a second board to keep in the office.
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Thx so much everyone. Amazing how helpful this community is. This was exactly I was looking for glad I'm not the only one who did not have a zomgwtfbbq first impression. I guess I'll give it couple more weeks :)
I generally do bottom out while I type - still in process of trying to understand this whole non bottom oout concept. I may eventually get a red switch (thinking of CM quick fire rapid)
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When I got my first mechanical keyboard I didn't feel that it was much better but rather, a few weeks later, I realized how mushy rubber domes felt and that was what made me love mechanicals.
This is exactly what happened to me. My first mech board was an old Dell AT101W I used about 10 years ago. I remember loving that board, so I ended up getting a Das Keyboard w/ blues. Used that for about 6 months before getting my Filco, and now I can't even type on a rubber dome more than a few minutes without my hands feeling like crap.
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Blues or ALPS would be my suggestion.
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If you bottom out a lot then seriously look at getting a packet of o-rings from WASD Keyboards http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-accessories-2/cherry-mx-rubber-switch-dampeners.html (or anywhere else that takes your fancy).
They are cheap and help heaps in reducing the jarring from plastic on plastic.
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My first mechnical keyboard was a das keyboard with browns. I tried it for a few weeks but was very disappointed. I have a very light touch and prefer to type lightly with little resistance. I also don't need the tactile bump to help me discern when the key has activated. So for me the das with browns was returned (keyboard also had quality issues as well) and then I purchased a Realforce with topres. I liked it well enough but felt it was fairly noisy even though others don't and for some reason I couldn't type on it without bottoming out.
So then on to try the next board - the reds. For me, they are the best. I love the light touch and although others have a hard time not bottoming out, I find that I can even type lighter than usual and it feels like my fingers are just floating over the keys. I also recently purchased the new silent Realforce with variable keys and I do like that one pretty well. I go back and forth between my Filco with reds, Realforce and Poker with reds as my favorite keyboards.
If you are looking for a light touch fairly quiet keyboard, I highly recommend the reds and if you do tend to bottom out get the soft landing pads or do the o-ring modification. For me there is no going back to a laptop keyboard.
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Plate mounted boards like Filcos are especially hard on bottoming out, this explains your tiring. I couldn't believe browns were too heavy for you since there is only reds and topre that are lighter. A clicky keyboard would probably help you become a touch typist since the audio feedback would be much more usefull than tactility at 100+ wpm.
Try a blackwidow at bestbuy (they have a an open patch you can try out) to test blues. If you like the way they feel/sound get a cherry blue board, if not you have a long journey to finding the pefect keyboard. It took me about 20 switch types to find mine (SMK's), and I am still looking out of curiosity. Good luck.
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You have to 'learn' how to use/feel a good keyboard.
I would say 90% you are bottoming out the keys,
but then I never tell someone to get a brown switched board for their first one if they have never used a real 'board before it has to be blues.
I have been using ALPS boards (blue and white) since the late `90's,
but still had to ease up on my first brown switched board and get into the right feel for it.
There seems to be a lot of BS spoke about blues things like they keep other people awake in the house.
The only thing I do hear often about them that is true, is, they should be your first switch.
Reds are more of a fashion thing IMO, I do understand that all the black switched boards I use are older blacks but I could not 'really' feel that there was anything life changing about reds over my blacks,
that said thy do look nice with the key caps off,
and I have not really used my G80-11908 well ...I have yet to plug it in :)