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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: HaiiYaa on Wed, 05 October 2011, 13:23:52
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I heard somewhere here on geeckhack that you should only get o-rings for linear switches but I can't the post again. Is it that true? Whats wrong with using o-rings with tactile switches?
These are the ones I will get
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-accessories-2/cherry-mx-rubber-switch-dampeners.html
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It probably has something to do with bottoming out. People usually bottom out more on the linear keys since there is no tactile feedback telling them they've activated the switch.
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I heard somewhere here on geeckhack that you should only get o-rings for linear switches but I can't the post again. Is it that true? Whats wrong with using o-rings with tactile switches?
Nothing. What you read sounds like FUD. I've tried o-rings on brown and blue switches (as well as reds) and they work fine on all of them.
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Really, you should just try them. You may like them, you may not. This is going to be a really personal thing.
I tried them and didn't like them, but I suspect that that may have been because I tried them on a board with Cherry keycaps not the taller profile ones like Filco/WASD/etc. The reduction in travel was noticeable which I didn't like; unfortunately the only board that I have with Cherry MX and tall caps is my WASD which is blues, making the O-rings fairly pointless, so I haven't tried them on taller caps. Perhaps I will do that when the set of lasered caps I ordered show up - I might put them on my Noppoo and try o-rings on a few keys and see if they're better there.
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It's true, it will be a personal judgment on the O-ring mod. I purchased the O-rings from WASD and tried them on my Filco MX Brown TKL. I noticed less key travel as well and the keys didn't feel as light with them on. I do still have them on some keys, but will probably end up removing them completely.
They do cushion they key when bottoming out and muffle the noise slightly, so they do serve their purpose.
I believe you should try them out and see how they feel with your specific keyboard.
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Really, you should just try them. You may like them, you may not. This is going to be a really personal thing.
I tried them and didn't like them, but I suspect that that may have been because I tried them on a board with Cherry keycaps not the taller profile ones like Filco/WASD/etc. The reduction in travel was noticeable which I didn't like; unfortunately the only board that I have with Cherry MX and tall caps is my WASD which is blues, making the O-rings fairly pointless, so I haven't tried them on taller caps. Perhaps I will do that when the set of lasered caps I ordered show up - I might put them on my Noppoo and try o-rings on a few keys and see if they're better there.
my mechanical have short keycaps but I still want to try them because I hate the feeling and sound when I bottom out
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I just did some tests and it looks like it doesn't actually change the maximum travel distance. If you press it all the way down, it'll still go just as far as without the O-ring. So, it does just as should, dampen the last 0.5mm of key travel. Maximum key travel actually stays the same.
Here is a picture of a key without and O-ring and with. This illustrates how low the key goes when you first feel the O-ring. Again, since the O-ring is soft, you can still press it all the way just a little bit of force.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]27922[/ATTACH]
Second picture shows the keys fully depressed. Of course, it takes more force to fully depress the key with the O-ring.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]27923[/ATTACH]
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Excellent illustration!
By the way, I only noticed a problem with certain keycaps like Cherry doubleshots, that have short stems. On those, key travel (when you first feel the o-ring) is reduced visibly (close to 1mm).
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Do these keycaps have the short or long stems?
http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/item/pbt-key-caps/104-pbt-black-engraved-key-cap/lid=18974433
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I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the only "short" keys on the market are those made by Cherry and those used on Noppoo boards.
Unfortunately for the O-rings, those are my two favorites to type on. With clears, though, I don't feel that I really need the O-rings. My noppoo has browns, and I still can't type on it without bottoming out. I've been giving it a good try because otherwise I like the board, but I'm still not warming up to it.
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I just did some tests and it looks like it doesn't actually change the maximum travel distance. If you press it all the way down, it'll still go just as far as without the O-ring. So, it does just as should, dampen the last 0.5mm of key travel. Maximum key travel actually stays the same.
Here is a picture of a key without and O-ring and with. This illustrates how low the key goes when you first feel the O-ring. Again, since the O-ring is soft, you can still press it all the way just a little bit of force.
(Attachment) 27922[/ATTACH]
Second picture shows the keys fully depressed. Of course, it takes more force to fully depress the key with the O-ring.
(Attachment) 27923[/ATTACH]
Thanks alot! if I could give you +rep I would
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Excellent illustration!
By the way, I only noticed a problem with certain keycaps like Cherry doubleshots, that have short stems. On those, key travel (when you first feel the o-ring) is reduced visibly (close to 1mm).
Damn :( I was planning to use it with a noppoo that ahve some pretty short keycaps
Is it a really big problem?
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At this point I'd have to say "try it." Next time I have time for keyboard geekery I will have to do a serious comparison of the various keys - Noppoo, Cherry, and the "tall" type that everyone else uses.
I started to put some WASD keys (a full set of keys made by WASD, that is) on a Noppoo Choc Pro and was shocked to find that while the WASD keys are noticeably taller than the Noppoo ones, they don't sit all that much higher when installed.
Short answer: have to try it and see.
I can tell you that I didn't like them on Cherry lasered keys, it noticeably reduced the travel on those, at least to my fingertips.
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Actually I don't think I would mind the reduced travel, I think it will be more of a benefit in gaming so I think I will try it
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My Filco TKL (brown & PBT caps) has the O-ring mod. It's quieter and also, the keystrokes have now a lower pitched sound which I personally prefer over the original ABS without O-rings.
Travel wise... it's very interesting... I wouldn't say there is a noticeable less travel, yet there has to be some, because ever since I've made the mod I feel that my HHKB Pro2 has more travel. I'm also a bit faster on my Filco, and this could actually be due to the slightly less travel (and yes, I bottom out while typing, otherwise travel distance would make no difference). I just wish the Filco felt as smooth as the HHKB.
P.S.
My thanks go to user sordna for this satisfying mod!
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I was actually just going to order some O-rings for my new filco tenkeyless with mx browns since I feel like I will still bottom out on a few keys that i would rather not bottom out on due to noise. I will be sure to mention my results with and without and how they compared for me personally.
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My thanks go to user sordna for this satisfying mod!
Hey, thanks but I can't take credit for the idea, I got it here:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:5450
I did investigate and refine it relentlessly though, probably spending over $100 to test dampening materials (different kinds of o-rings / pads / foams / dental bands). I'm very excited WASDkeyboards will be stocking Red, 008 size, 40A durometer o-rings soon, that's the PERFECT spec for the best dampening method.
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I will try to go to the hardware store. I'm sure I saw something similar like what wasdkeyboards sell there
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I been going between two keyboards recently, Filco Ninja TKL with browns, and WASD with browns+o-rings. Since these are not the exact same keyboard, I'm not 100% sure how this changes the sound and feel. But when I ordered the WASD, I figured it was worth trying out the optional o-ring to see if I would like them on the Filco. I was also planning to use the WASD as a work keyboard and wanted to make it as quiet as possible.
After spending some time on both keyboards, I agree with the other posters here that the sound is more muted, the dull "clack" is lower and not as intense. But I feel like the snap from the non-o-ring keyboard. Hard to say but it feels almost too quiet. I still like both, but they do feel and sound different.
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I just equipped the o-rings on my Leopold and can confirm that it does feel like the key travel distance is reduced. It does make the sound of bottoming out quieter though. I think I am gonna leave the rings in for a while and see if they will "break in" or seat themselves better.
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does adding o-rings soften the pain of bottoming out? i like the lightness of the cherry i just wish when you bottom out it was soft landing.
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does adding o-rings soften the pain of bottoming out? i like the lightness of the cherry i just wish when you bottom out it was soft landing.
Yes, it softens the landing. That's the main reason I'm using o-rings, the sound dampening for me is a secondary benefit. Just make sure to get 40A durometer o-rings, or maybe even 50A is good enough, but not 70A because those don't soften the landing much.
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i was thinking about modding the switch internals itself when you "bottom out" but that proved to be fruitless since i bi-sected a cherry switch and saw that the stem doesn't reach the bottom of the... switch, there's a tiny inward bulb that prevents that in the stem casing, this is a pic of it fully depressed (which is largely unlikely to happen unless you have lead fingers). I used clear stems to show better contrast and the circled purple section.
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2964/p1020878ll.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/683/p1020878ll.jpg/)
i want the red o-rings from wasd soon so i can test out more with a cut away keycap
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Actually I don't think I would mind the reduced travel, I think it will be more of a benefit in gaming so I think I will try it
Somewhere i think this would actually be beneficial for me aswell.. i have been thinking about purchasing a bunch of those O-Rings and just supply some keys with them.. so i can "feel" what key i just pressed.. i can see this working for SC2 with certain building hotkey bindings.. or units etc..
I have to say tho if you're already used to how your keyboard feels you might not like these too much.. but if you just bought a new keyboard i think you should try them (going to buy a cherry mx keyboard and also a bunch of those rings, so i get used to them from the start)