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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Blendama on Mon, 17 October 2011, 14:33:15
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Hello everyone!
After years of using rubber domed keyboards I'm glad I found this site! It has reaffirmed my love of mechanical keyboards (which I haven't used for over 7 years!)
Historically I've used Alps keyboards and the noise has not been an issue at home. I just bought a Tactile Pro for home use and I love it!
I now want to get a keyboard for use at work. I have my own office but I like to leave my door open.
I figure cherry switches would be the best choice. I have never used them however a local computer store had a razer black widow in stock so I played with the cherry blues briefly.
Maybe my alps have acclimatised me to loud boards but the cherry blues didn't seem to be very loud to me!
I could go with browns but from what I've read they require less force, so I'm worried they may be too soft for me.(since I find alps keys quite comfortable)
So my question is this; has anyone used blues in an office environment and if so, how many death threats did you receive? Hehe
Also, since I've never used browns I was wondering if there was a noticeable difference between blues and browns? I'm ok giving up the 'click' so long as there's tactile feedback and they keys aren't significantly softer/lighter than the blues.
Thanks!
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I had blue switch but moved onto browns. It depends on your preference, but I really like blues. I'm thinking of buying a blue one. In terms of noise level, blues are pretty loud. You should try the different switches then decide for yourself.
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Blues are the quietest clicky switch I have seen, and I have tried a lot. ALPS are quite a bit louder. The clack of bottoming out is much louder. So you might find even a linear switch to be loud, if it has a metal switchplate and you bottom out.
The very light click of cherry blues, is one of the reasons, I don't really like them. I can very easilly make a rubber dome sound louder than cherry blue.
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I wouldn't consider blues to be terribly loud. What makes them annoying, IMO, is that the clicking is high-pitched and plasticky, probably giving an impression of higher volume than it really has. I think in an office you might want to go with something not clicky.
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I wouldn't consider blues to be terribly loud. What makes them annoying, IMO, is that the clicking is high-pitched and plasticky, probably giving an impression of higher volume than it really has. I think in an office you might want to go with something not clicky.
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I recommend grabbing a bunch of legos. Throw them into a pillowcase. Then stand on your desk and shake it violently.
If you get a Death Threat you now know.
FOR KEYBOARD SCIENCE!
This is quite accurate. Funny, but accurate.
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I wouldn't consider blues to be terribly loud. *What makes them annoying, IMO, is that the clicking is high-pitched and plasticky, probably giving an impression of higher volume than it really has. *I think in an office you might want to go with something not clicky.
This, if you want a more satifying, branch breaking click, look at other options.
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They aren't so exceptionally loud that they will annoy the typer. However, I've found that people around you will plot your untimely death after repeated exposure to your typing on blues (ie. the live-in GF will be driven crazy by the blue switch sound).
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OK, well since I still consider myself young and I believe I have at least a few good years left in me, maybe I should overlook blues.
Clickey, you said to look at other options; what else would you recommend?
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Ripster, good point. If I have to put up with nylons hanging in the washroom, then the least she can do is sleep through my typing!
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They aren't so exceptionally loud that they will annoy the typer. However, I've found that people around you will plot your untimely death after repeated exposure to your typing on blues (ie. the live-in GF will be driven crazy by the blue switch sound).
That's a good point. The clicking sound will be meaningful to you in some way since you are the user. To everyone else, it sounds like a bunch of senseless, obnoxious plastic rattling.
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I wouldn't consider blues to be terribly loud. *What makes them annoying, IMO, is that the clicking is high-pitched and plasticky, probably giving an impression of higher volume than it really has. *I think in an office you might want to go with something not clicky.
Agreed. I got a new set of browns for home and brought my blues into the office here. They are not too bad. Of course I'm trying to retrain years of bad typing habits so I'm typing really slowly and not bottoming out the keys very often. Browns are just as loud when bottoming out , but like said a lower pitch so not as offensive to some.
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Agreed. I got a new set of browns for home and brought my blues into the office here. They are not too bad. Of course I'm trying to retrain years of bad typing habits so I'm typing really slowly and not bottoming out the keys very often. Browns are just as loud when bottoming out , but like said a lower pitch so not as offensive to some.
That, and it sounds like normal typing which people are used to since their own keyboards make a similar sound. Blues have the same sound plus all the extra clicks on top of that.
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Buckling Spring, ALPS, Acers, Space Invaders, Futaba, NEC's, SMK's. There are quite a few options. Cherries are nice because they are so light (to the touch), even if their sound is not that great.
I would recommend Buckling Spring (model M). BS are louder than cherries, but the fact they don't clack (bottom out sound) means there is probably less overall noise, assuming you bottom out. They ARE stiffer than cherry blues, so they might not be your cup of tea, but maybe Ripster or stallion can tell you if anyone has ever disliked a buckling spring (I don't know of any posts of people hating on BS).
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I had a BS and a white ALPS (Northgate Evolution - loudest keyboard on the planet) at work and nobody said anything to me. I just think they were being polite.
I wasn't.
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Blues aren't as annoying as the people having impromptu meetings in their cubes and conference calls, plus the people (me!) who continually swear at their computers.
The only time keyboard noise has annoyed me was when I was trying to sleep (not in the office!), and on previously mentioned conference calls.
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Thanks Clickey. I remember using Model Ms at work before we upgraded our PS/2s to something newer (around 1998). I guess when everyone's keyboards made those noises it wasn't an issue however once everyone "upgraded" to rubber domed, people's sensitivity seemed to increase 100 fold.
A bunch of earlier posters are probably correct; to the user, the noise isn't an issue, but to everyone else it sounds like random clicking.
Since Alps, buckling spring, etc are louder, I'll probably just start with a Filco brown and see what I think. The big problem is that it's impossible to try the various keys out before buying, since nobody seems to stock a wide range of boards!
Oh well, worst case scenario is that I don't like it and I sell it on eBay (or to someone here!)
Thanks for your help!
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I would say if people have a problem with Cherry blues, ALPS, BS, etc., that's reasonable. If you bring a Cherry brown to work and people have a problem, at that point I would tell them to kiss your ass. There are a lot of rubber domes around my office that about as loud as my Cherry brown 'boards.
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It depends on the keyboard and keycaps how loud blues appear to be. With the same blank keys, My OCN-branded Ducky seems louder than my Scorpius M10, for example.
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You can def try cherry blues before you buy, they stock Razer Blackwidows at Best Buy, Frys, maybe Walmart? And they have an open area where you can touch the arrows keys to test them. Browns are a good choice too, but if you prefer the click, you might miss it.
I would have thought the office manager would be pleased at the noise of work being done, but then again I don't work in an office.
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[video=youtube;RYK03ltDcqM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYK03ltDcqM[/video]
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http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:22902
If you go to the youtube page of that video I also have a video of blues in my channel there. The fan noise from my gaming rig is rather loud but will give an idea of the sound differences when bottoming out on both.
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I guess we could make a wiki for switch sounds
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Lol My Fiance likes that hippy ****.... I just think it's gaudy myself. I'll have to see all these videos when I get out from under websense tonight
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I guess we could make a wiki for switch sounds
[ATTACH=CONFIG]28859[/ATTACH]
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Never stopped the bosses from screwing the secretaries.
(Attachment) 28855[/ATTACH]
Lol, I love Mad Men :D
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OP:
My opinion - no they are not that loud and I love the sound.
According to the people at work at university - they are VERY loud. I really cant understand those people... I find the sound to be nice and therapeutic.
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Thanks Enoy!
I definitely see the difference between the two; and the high pitched sound of the blues would definitely annoy people at work!
By the way, I am the most senior person in the office, so they'd have to complain to me! Hahaha
Seriously though; the browns definitely sound nicer; I think I'll have to spend more time on the blues at the local Best Buy to get a sense of the blues again...
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Quite welcome.
To be honest, both have their appeal to me. I like the fuller sound of the browns which I think McGurk me into thinking they feel slightly stiffer and solid. But there is something to be said about the blues depending on the room and the way they resonate.
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That would be a good idea. We could call it the Audio Clips Wiki. (http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?36-audio-clips)
I would say "touchez" but after looking at that link, I see only more need for an audio wiki (not some unnavigable subforum, with random postings).
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My first board was browns. I was unsure about the noise of the blues, so I went with my gut and got the browns. Then, I decided that I didn't like the friction in the browns' tactile bump so I tried blues. They felt much smoother, but I found the high pitched clicking to be unbearable compared to the sexy clacking of my brown board. Well I got rid of the blues and grew to actually enjoy the tactile bump in the browns. It feels a bit unrefined, but it's almost satisfying now for some strange reason. I have a feeling that I would be a perfect candidate for ergo clears though, and I plan to mod my first brown board to ergo clears when I get the time to pursue that project (which will also involve me fixing whatever went wrong when i spilled water all over it, but that's another story). If you type pretty fast you won't notice much of a difference in the feeling of the switches anyways, as both seem almost linear to me when I'm typing at full speed. Also, I didn't find the blues to be much more, if any more tactile than the browns as far as feeling goes. I think the general perception is that they are more tactile because of the way the brain interprets the clicking sound.
...Queue ripster and his mcgurk effect lolol
Tl;dr
Blues feel amazing, and are a great switch if you like the high pitched lego sounding click. However, I could not stand it and I much prefer the sound of browns.
As far as office use, I used my browns in a a relatively small, quiet office area with cubicles without any negative feedback from other employees. The think I like about the browns is that you can make them as silent or as loud as you want depending on how hard you hit the keys.
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It is only loud if you think it is. It is all in your head.
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McGurk Effect.
Maybe if I try a different version Redpill won't get so mad.
[video=youtube;jtsfidRq2tw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtsfidRq2tw[/video]
I didn't think he was saying dadada, I thought he was saying ahahah, both times. I think the other video is much better at illustrating it.
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Blue is good for me. It creates noise for sure, but I like the feeling when typing on it.
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I use blues at work and browns at home. The noise can be a little annoying to coworkers if you're going full tilt all day but, unless I'm doing type racer, I've never had anyone speak up about the noise. If someone does complain my red board is always plugged into my work computer too. I switch to that for when I feel like chilling.
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I don't find blues to be that loud. Maybe if you really hammer the keys so they bottom out massively, but during normal usage its fine.
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None of the clicky switches I've tried, including MX blues, various Alps, and buckling springs, have bothered my coworkers. Maybe I just have awesome coworkers.
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I've tried BS and browns at work in an open office, and the BS got some unfavourable comments. The browns were fine. I think when I leave I'll take my IBM Terminal in and do some speed-writing.
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Blues are not that loud at all . Bottoming out is much louder than the noise the switch makes. If you bottom out alot you should try some form of dampening like o-rings.
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As a few people have pointed out it is all about the co-workers.
I got threatened with the sack for using, in order:
MX Blues
MX Browns
The same RD as everyone else (starting to see the pattern?)
Torpes
Apple scissor switch board (is the pattern becoming clearer?)
I don't bottom out, as a rule, and other people have commented on how quiet my typing is compared to the clatter of RDs being beaten to death that is the normal office sound nowadays.
All of this while the complainer conducted speaker phone conversations, bellowed across the office at any time they liked for an hour at a time, slammed every door and drawer they ever encountered, etc, etc. More important the whole desk cluster I shared with this person would shake like an earthquake as they tried to drive the keys on a RD through the desk.
Basically, some people are hypersensitive to any noise that they are not making and completely unaware of any noise they make themselves.
Also, basically, some people become so expert about complaining they love to demonstrate their mad skills at being whining children, The point is that with such mad skills the bosses learn that it is easiest to give way to these individuals at the first sign of a new campaign of complaints to cover up for the under-performance of the whiner.
If you are the boss in your area then my suggested challenge to you is to find someone who deserves a reward and buy them a Blue board as that reward. See how you react to it being used and see what complaints you get. If they come from people you know are good workers who are really being affected then you know it's a bad choice for your environment. If the only complaints are from people who you know are trying to cover for their own inadequate personality and incompetence then you have learned two very valuable lessons (and can build the list of who to keep and who to dump at the next cut back, possibly thereby building higher overall productivity).
Once you show the workplace that you think good keyboards are things worth having and to be treated as rewards and marks of competence you may well find that any complaints fade away.
Once you set up the environment, and if their are not *real* complaints, then you, and your *good* workers will be free to use whatever you like. I'd suggest the cost of a nice board (don't be tight, get a decent board) given away to a good worker will be a very cheap investment if it works out and a cheap learning experience if it ends up with the receiver of the board taking it home and a office rule about keyboard noise being developed.
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I think the pattern is that you should be updating your resume' .
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pretty loud i think. i started mechanical kb with blue and now i use brown + membrane kb(Qsenn DT-35)
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I think the pattern is that you should be updating your resume' .
Happily I am basically competent so the threats are empty. They can't recruit and keep many people who can actually produce output (no mystery as to why) so the half or so of us who can do the work are looked after so long as we don't make trouble by upsetting the 10% of total losers. I've worked better places but worse ones too. Be careful of frying pans and fire as they say. But, yes the pay and the good bits are not enough for me to endure it once a few personal issues allow me to move on without excessive pain. All things in good time and all that.
And the whole thing let me justify to myself trying a few different of keyboards I may well have not done without pressure and that's no bad thing. I get to use my Topre RF now with little problem as I have convinced the moron contingent that it is a 'normal' (i.e. RD) board and therefore they can't complain about it.
Anyway, if I go back to a 'boss' job in my next move (very much a code monkey again just now) I hope to follow some version of the above plan to get a better culture of respect for personal tools and the like. Fingers crossed.
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How can you tell if you bottom out? Is this something you can only try with a mechanical keyboard? (ps the more I type on this Bloomberg Keyboard the angrier I get... Look at this awful squished layout)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ARPKNXKikGA/Tp7dBOOk3ZI/AAAAAAAAAPI/iMXcxXPlazc/s640/photo.JPG (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ARPKNXKikGA/Tp7dBOOk3ZI/AAAAAAAAAPI/iMXcxXPlazc/s640/photo.JPG)
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How can you tell if you bottom out?
If the key hits the bottom of it's travel then you have bottomed out.
s this something you can only try with a mechanical keyboard?[/URL]
Nope. In fact mechs allow you to *not* bottom out unlike RDs and SSs that pretty much require bottoming out to work at all.
the more I type on this Bloomberg Keyboard the angrier I get
Interesting. It looks like it might be a simple low profile RD. Not even Scissor Switch. If that's really the case then that would almost certainly make it pretty much the worst option one could imagine.
At least the people using it have no personal value and the actions undertaken are almost utterly unimportant. (That's sarcasm in case it doesn't come across that way.)
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http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23076-Do-you-guys-REALLY-think-a-IBM-Model-M-is-NOT-mechanical-or-are-you-trolling.
Mechanical is a bad word, and Topre ARE rubber domes.
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I take no offense, stock tips eh? Invest in something you can buy a decent amount of and reap the dividends. Don't invest in something you don't understand or has a convoluted business model.
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Mechanical is a bad word,
But "ego" isn't
http://www.moron.nl/lyrics/skyhooks/ego-is-not-a-dirty-word-lyrics.html
Topre ARE rubber domes.
Dull boring and repeatedly resolved argument.
I'll watch the fight if anyone wants to play but I'm not taking my shirt off to join in.
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But "ego" isn't
http://www.moron.nl/lyrics/skyhooks/ego-is-not-a-dirty-word-lyrics.html
Dull boring and repeatedly resolved argument.
I'll watch the fight if anyone wants to play but I'm not taking my shirt off to join in.
Most of the trolls about Topre have a simple reason, beside that they are the best MECHANICAL CAPACITATIVE switches to type on ;) (remember an ABBA song)
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I prefer the term "Capacitive". For some reason it's spelled wrong in the Mechanical Switch Poll.
as long as there is a spring you should add mechanical. try it. it works :)
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But "ego" isn't
http://www.moron.nl/lyrics/skyhooks/ego-is-not-a-dirty-word-lyrics.html
Dull boring and repeatedly resolved argument.
I'll watch the fight if anyone wants to play but I'm not taking my shirt off to join in.
Gotta love forums, you state a fact and get called a troll for it. How is Topre NOT a rubber dome keyboard? Apparently using a rubber dome as the main mechanism for key actuation does not make it rubber dome?
You can argue whether it is mechanical or not, I don't care anymore, mechanical is a retarded term. But you CANNOT argue that it is not a rubber dome.
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Yeah no idea how they always have their money making machines set to optimal but they are constantly coming up with awesome!
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That and the amount of tangible goods you could purchase for the cost of 1 common stock.
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Gotta love forums, you state a fact and get called a troll for it. How is Topre NOT a rubber dome keyboard? Apparently using a rubber dome as the main mechanism for key actuation does not make it rubber dome?
You can argue whether it is mechanical or not, I don't care anymore, mechanical is a retarded term. But you CANNOT argue that it is not a rubber dome.
Don't worry everybody's trolling here!!!!! :)
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You can always count on a monopoly continuing to do well.
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Not yet we don't.
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You can always count on a monopoly continuing to do well.
don't worry, I'm not trolling ;)
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Gotta love forums, you state a fact and get called a troll for it. How is Topre NOT a rubber dome keyboard? Apparently using a rubber dome as the main mechanism for key actuation does not make it rubber dome?
You can argue whether it is mechanical or not, I don't care anymore, mechanical is a retarded term. But you CANNOT argue that it is not a rubber dome.
Mechanical is not a precise word as it is used today generally with respect to keyboards. In my view "mechanical keyboard" just means a keyboard with better/nicer/more complicated switches than standard rubber domes. Topre switches qualify under this definition -- they are definitely included under the rubber dome umbrella, but they are also much more than bare-bones rubber dome switches.
I agree that more precise terminology would be useful.
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robotic keyburd
beep boop
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What's a robutt?
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I was obscurely quoting Homestar from long ago: http://www.homestarrunner.com/20x6vs1936.html I always forget that sometimes things should stay in my head.