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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Lucien on Fri, 21 October 2011, 10:27:57
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So I know there are spring swap mods for Cherry clears, but I'm a little confused over stiffness of each. My understanding is that from most stiffest to lightest, it goes:
Cherry clear (unmodded)
Panda clear (black spring)
Ergo clear (brown/blue/red spring)
Do I have that right?
Except I think I remember ripster did measurements and came to the conclusion that the black and clear springs are the same. And are brown/blue/red springs the same or all just "close enough"?
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WTF is a panda clear??
there are only two springs. Not three.
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there's the black/clear spring
and the blue/brown/red spring
supposedly the cherry yellow uses a middle-of-the-road spring, but those haven't been released iirc
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there's the black/clear spring
and the blue/brown/red spring
supposedly the cherry yellow uses a middle-of-the-road spring, but those haven't been released iirc
Incorrect. The OP is right, black springs are different from clear springs.
OP, I would agree with your assessment of the springs. I believe ripster said that the springs "felt similar" not that they were the same.
IMO, they feel MUCH different. HTH.
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get dem clears on out of hur
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Incorrect. The OP is right, black springs are different from clear springs.
OP, I would agree with your assessment of the springs. I believe ripster said that the springs "felt similar" not that they were the same.
IMO, they feel MUCH different. HTH.
Thx KL, I stand corrected!
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vote2ban
clear stems ftw!
voted
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Doesn't the clear stem change the actuation point from 2mm to 2.5mm?
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Incorrect. The OP is right, black springs are different from clear springs.
OP, I would agree with your assessment of the springs. I believe ripster said that the springs "felt similar" not that they were the same.
IMO, they feel MUCH different. HTH.
Thanks. I'm especially curious about the black vs clear spring though, might want to do a mod. Any idea how ripster tested them? I was thinking in order to compare the springs directly I'd want to put both types of springs into a linear switch and measure them there. The bump in the clear stem would make a head to head comparison hard otherwise.
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In my experience, forums with post voting tend to be forums filled with belligerent 12-15 year olds.
Then again, correlation != causation, so who knows?
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im 12 1/2
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:peace:
I'm this many!
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Thanks. I'm especially curious about the black vs clear spring though, might want to do a mod. Any idea how ripster tested them? I was thinking in order to compare the springs directly I'd want to put both types of springs into a linear switch and measure them there. The bump in the clear stem would make a head to head comparison hard otherwise.
nickels
Doesn't the clear stem change the actuation point from 2mm to 2.5mm?
no, it goes from 2.5 to 2 when swapping from blue to clear (or to anything else...) http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+switches+and+boards
it might be more interesting to look at the key force numbers. cherry's site says black switches need 2.1oz force to actuate, more than the clear's 2.0oz, but less than the tactile force of 2.3oz. so swapping a black spring into a clear stem, does that 0.1oz increase get applied to the tactile force?
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where was that "unknown black mx variant" pulled from?
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where was that "unknown black mx variant" pulled from?
(http://i.imgur.com/R6XUL.jpg)
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A thought; since the ergos are a "custom" switch, were the sliders lubed when the switches were assembled? That can make a difference in feel. I can definitely tell that the browns on one of my POS board - which I've had apart several times, and have lubed - feel smoother than the browns in my Noppoo which is nearly new.
Likewise the clears on my Filco, since I harvested the stems and springs from a POS board, were lubed before assembly, and they feel smooth as butter.
I'd be curious to know if the straight clears you tried were lubed or not.
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My straight from the distributor (Mouser) clear switches (all 2 of them) are completely lube free. Dry as a bone. Chances are that any current plate mount clears will also be dry. No idea on prior years production tho.
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Take this with a grain of salt because everyones hands and minds work different:
My family had an opportunity to sample a board with clears, ergo clears, and tacto clears. The ergos were the clear (pun) favorite and everybody wanted a keyboard with them; the others seemed "meh" and for a better lack of word "grainy."
The only concern is someone else commented in another thread that there are individuals (GH?) that have had issues with ergos likely because the switch wasn't designed with the spring used in mind. I have no idea what the "issues" were or who was having them.
Perhaps some long time ergo users here can interject
Here (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?22711-Browns-vs.-Clears) there are some interjections about Clears and ErgoClears.
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Here (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?22711-Browns-vs.-Clears) there are some interjections about Clears and ErgoClears.
preference
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Pretty sure clears and blacks use the same spring, the force difference is from the tactility, but the only way to test this is to use a digital meter on the springs alone.
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A thought; since the ergos are a "custom" switch, were the sliders lubed when the switches were assembled? That can make a difference in feel. I can definitely tell that the browns on one of my POS board - which I've had apart several times, and have lubed - feel smoother than the browns in my Noppoo which is nearly new.
Likewise the clears on my Filco, since I harvested the stems and springs from a POS board, were lubed before assembly, and they feel smooth as butter.
I'd be curious to know if the straight clears you tried were lubed or not.
They were not. (I assembled the board in question.) All the stems and springs came out of POS boards from ebay.
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Pretty sure clears and blacks use the same spring, the force difference is from the tactility, but the only way to test this is to use a digital meter on the springs alone.
I've swapped the springs myself...they are different. Try it!
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Don't need to look, I touched it all over :) no lube
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For future reference, any tips on lubing sliders?
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Shame I have no photo gear to come anywhere near that picture... and yes I see lube on yours.
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I lubed the whole sliders on mine, theory being that the sliding plastic-plastic contact points on the sides needed some loob as well. Who's right? Who knows.
Oh, and Ripster, does that mean that I am supposed to be using porn generously?
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erm, which is which when it comes to ergos and tactos? Also, if we swap blue/brown/red springs into a clear, do they provide enough force for the switch to recover reliably?
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erm, which is which when it comes to ergos and tactos? Also, if we swap blue/brown/red springs into a clear, do they provide enough force for the switch to recover reliably?
Ergo = blue/brown/red spring
Tacto (aka "Panda") = black spring
More info here:
http://keyboardlover.com/switches.php
I and several others have noticed that after actuation, the switches will sometimes have a very small one second "lag" in coming back up but to my knowledge, no one has experienced a "stuck" switch or anything like that.
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there's the black/clear spring
and the blue/brown/red spring
supposedly the cherry yellow uses a middle-of-the-road spring, but those haven't been released iirc
Pretty sure "cherry yellows" are what is in the Rappoo...and those are fake cherrys.
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DO NOT lube the center part of the metal contact (where the metal meets), because most likely your lubricant will interfere with the electrical contact.
New info one cherry clears: They can have 2 different springs (one is silver colored, the other brass colored). I was looking at some springs yesterday and they are all from clears but some were distinctly different metals. Will post pics. Has anyone else reported this before?
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DO NOT lube the center part of the metal contact (where the metal meets), because most likely your lubricant will interfere with the electrical contact.
New info one cherry clears: They can have 2 different springs (one is silver colored, the other brass colored). I was looking at some springs yesterday and they are all from clears but some were distinctly different metals. Will post pics. Has anyone else reported this before?
i've just seen the brass, slightly wider? ones