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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: h2gofast on Sat, 29 October 2011, 08:09:51
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Been reading about conversions for old Model F and Model M Terminal keyboards. I have a few of them. The part number on one of the Model Ms is 1394193 Date 14-10-97. I've read a few wiiteups about teensy based converters, but can't seem to find any long term reports. Is there anyone out there who runs runs a terminal keyboard on a PC for daily use who wouldn't mind reporting how it's been going for them.
Mucho Thanks
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I ran my 1386887(s) on PS/2 for a long time with only minor issues relating to how software interprets their behaviour. I've long since abandoned this method in favour of inline USB converters...I've been using Soarer's for pretty much as long as it has existed and have found no real issues that he wasn't able to resolve through further developing his code.
Long story short, no big issues.
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Thanks Kishy, that's the answer I was looking for. Soarer's method looks pretty solid. There are people selling these things on ebay without telling folks that they are terminal keyboards. I don't want to be that guy. Some of the old model F's in the box have that fat DIN looking plug, but the Model M's have the RJ-45. I haven't gone through the box yet, so I might get lucky. The model F's are heavy beasts.
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I'm not sure if this counts as "conversion" since I haven't modified the keyboard a single bit, but I use a similar terminal model M with RJ45 plug, connected through a trivial plug adapter to PS/2 port.
It's PS/2 compatible (yours should be too) and there are only three differences between this keyboard and a typical PC keyboard:
1. Different id number. Some software (e.g. my BIOS and vanilla Linux) plainly refuses to work with it, believing that it's not a keyboard.
2. It knows only scancode set 3. Typical PC keyboard uses set 2 and hence software usually expects set 2.
3. It needs to be explicitly told to send break codes, by default it sends them only for CTRL, ALT and SHIFT.
All of these issues can be easily solved in Linux - there is existing support for scancode set 3 and enabling break codes generation, and #1 requires only a very simple kernel patch. Now, if only my BIOS and USB adapters supported this keyboard, it would be perfect :)
If you would like to read more, there is a wiki article on attaching AT-compatible terminal Ms and Fs to PCs without USB adapters or controller swaps. IIRC, somebody has even developed a Windows driver for them.
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...and that wiki article was authored by me, and is linked from my sig :)
It's fallen into a state of disrepair though and is lacking some info I've been meaning to gather and add.
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The plug adaptor with linux sounds easier, which raises the question. Do windows people use these keyboards?
maybe conversion was the wrong word. I am really looking for any sound method of connecting these keyboards to a PC. The model F's in the box have been in use, there's one labeled a model M that is also used and is as big, but not as heavy as the model F's,
A couple of the model M's with the rj45 looking connector are in really nice shape. I'll put a picture up when I have time tomorrow.
Is there a preferred source for that adaptor, or is it diy?
Thanks,
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I don't think anybody commercially produces adapters to connect Windows-incompatible terminal keyboards to PS/2 :)
I have built mine myself from a PS/2 extension cable and RJ45 socket. Maybe one day I'll build an USB adapter and install it into this socket's case to make it usable with all OSs.
If you don't want to play with RJ45 sockets, it's also possible to open the keyboard and replace whole cable. I think it's described in kishy's article.
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Pics of the terminal keyboard. There are a few. Is there any hope for old model F's with the fat DINs?
(http://i.imgur.com/v9xCMhs.jpg) (http://http://imgur.com/http://imgur.com/a/ij2fv)
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mich, thanks for the info.
Here are some pics of the model m terminal keyboard I've got.
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8199/20111029163723106.jpg)
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3836/20111029163654163.jpg)
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doing the very same thing at mo see my post= got these from ebay (uk )
done the cable swap easy
just got to do the driver part and keymapper
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trader
keep me posted how it works out. I have a box full of these and a few Model F's and M's with the 240 degree DIN connectors. The Model F's are something else.
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Check out the thread that I just posted. You can convert it with some parts from a Unicomp PC/5250 to get all of the extra keys to take macros if you are willing to bolt mod. The parts are about $52 from Unicomp. I just opened mine up, and I replaced the switch ASM, PCB controller, and cable along with springs and hammers while I was at it. You can give it any connector that you want, PS/2 or USB. Jim Owens at Unicomp will hook you up.
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themadreason, thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not ready to spend 50 bucks, I've got one clean one that might be worth the money, but for the rest of them, I'm too cheeep.
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h2gofast any news on your project ??
well i did the cable swap (easy)
BUT booted up pc =nothing
unplugged and replugged ps2 lead back in =keyboard works (sort of)
did a key remap and everythings seems ok ish
tried the kishy method but had problems with the links for the software to turn off windows protected files /replaced the i8042 file in safe mode and nothing worked for my (windows xp)
so as of now can use keyboard but have to do the unplug thing (not good for pc )
may have to do the teensy thing looks easy and could just buy one and use it for loads of keyboards
could someone tell me why i cant solder wires form any ibm or other keyboard ribbon to a cheap ps2 controller from another keyboard !!! or is that too easy
teensy look good but as i live in the uk bit of a pain
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collector of junk, sorry no new news. I still have a box of these keyboards, a couple model m ps2's, some clean model m rj45's that I am definitely going to work on, and a couple of model F's 122 key with the big DIN connectors.
Do you have a link for the instructions you were using. Documentation is part of what I do for living and I wouldn't mind updating the documents with our findings.
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look at kishy sig then look at the posts he's done ,i'm still new and cannot posts links !!!!!!!
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how are you with a soldering iron?
you could build your own programmable USB controller for about $20 in the US - not sure what the component cost would be in the UK.
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I imagine it'd probably be about the same+VAT, Maplin/farnell/allied have pretty reasonable prices.
Also, the advent of commonly available micro controllers is pretty amazing.
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yes i'm ok with a soldering iron but its the connecting what to what bit i'm no good at !
could either of you point me in the right direction please !
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i will recommend the Aikon as it offers the easiest programming. sixty did a nice write-up at http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?t=15
the article lists the parts, but the M needs a few special tweaks. the PCB should be 50x160mm to match the original board. and you will need FFC connectors for the membrane (one 16 and one 8). do a search on the part numbers 5-520315-8 and 6-520315-6.
you might also want to choose a connector. if i remember correctly, the terminal has an attached cable. the cable goes through a flexible grommet that fits into an insert that fits over the two pins. you can re-use this by taking a razor to split the grommet and remove the terminal cable. replace with USB cable (might need to ream the grommet). you could replace the insert and grommet with a USB-B plug - this leaves a gap around the plug because the case hole is so much larger. you can use Ripster's yogurt lid trick to fill this in. i will use an RJ45 socket on the one i'm planning because the size is pretty close to the size of an SDL and offers positive lock - but i have a crimp tool, so making a USB cable with a RJ45 plug on one side is very easy for me.
i'll post a CAD drawing for a model M specific Aikon controller here this weekend or before.
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many thanks for your help wcass
could you look at my other post along same lines also please ========can anybody tell me if its possable !!