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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: oneproduct on Mon, 31 October 2011, 20:50:58

Title: Topre switch feel and variable weight
Post by: oneproduct on Mon, 31 October 2011, 20:50:58: Blues feel too heavy for me, so I love the lightness of browns and reds. However, even though I prefer reds to blues for the weight difference, I miss the tactility, which makes browns my favorite for the moment.

I was wondering if someone could maybe compare Topre switches to reds and browns so I can try to see if I would like them based on that. I always see the "smooth as butter" comparison, but how would you compare this to a red switch? Now that red switches have gotten around I'd love to hear some feedback from those that have both a Topre and a red.

The other question I had was regarding the variable weight schemes seen here http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Topre+Realforce+Reference+-+all+things+topre#Key+Force+or+Key+weight

So... which one is actually it? The top one seems odd as the right ring finger is 35g whereas the left ring finger is not. The lower one seems much more appealing.
Title: Topre switch feel and variable weight
Post by: litster on Mon, 31 October 2011, 21:56:05: Realforce variable is kind of like red in terms of weight feel, but red is completely linear, whereas a Torpe switch loses resistence a little abruptly when the rubberdome collapses. It feels a little like brown to me. But that's just my opinion. Someone else will give you a slightly different view/opinion. The best way to find out is to buy one and try one yourself :-).
Title: Topre switch feel and variable weight
Post by: flyball on Mon, 31 October 2011, 21:58:44: look at the force diagrams on the wiki
Title: Topre switch feel and variable weight
Post by: woody on Tue, 01 November 2011, 04:34:22: Quote from: oneproduct;443020
I was wondering if someone could maybe compare Topre switches to reds and browns so I can try to see if I would like them based on that.
I got a 45g HHKB, and it is more tiring than MX blues. And has totally wrong tactility for light typing.
Haven't tried lighter Topres, but I guess they'll be more smeared and unpronounced and totally unlike MX brown.

In other words - beware.
Title: Topre switch feel and variable weight
Post by: slueth on Tue, 01 November 2011, 04:48:30: Kinda like a mix of red and brown with a smooth actuation. A good rubber dome.
Title: Topre switch feel and variable weight
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 01 November 2011, 06:21:13: Topres are buttery smooth and very nice. The reason I never really stuck with them is for two reasons:

-The don't have that "crisp," mechanical feel. The feel kinda soft and nebulous. And more importantly...
-They don't have the springiness of Cherrys. Cherrys sort of help lift your fingers back up reducing fatigue. Without this springiness, I feel like I have to lift my fingers after each keystroke, and I get tired after a while.

That said, you really won't find a better out-of-the-box keyboard than a Topre Realforce. They use top-notch materials and are built like tanks.
Title: Topre switch feel and variable weight
Post by: oneproduct on Tue, 01 November 2011, 18:22:29: Quote from: oneproduct;443020
The other question I had was regarding the variable weight schemes seen here http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Topre+Realforce+Reference+-+all+things+topre#Key+Force+or+Key+weight

So... which one is actually it? The top one seems odd as the right ring finger is 35g whereas the left ring finger is not. The lower one seems much more appealing.

Bump. Still curious about this.
Title: Topre switch feel and variable weight
Post by: Trueepower on Tue, 01 November 2011, 21:03:27: Quote from: oneproduct;443683
Bump. Still curious about this.

Exactly, as one of the above posters said.. A Topre 45g board, and lower resistance is especially not very springy. But, they have most of their force at the top and then from there they drop in force. As the above poster said, the force gradient charts show the difference clearly. Cherry's increase in force while Topre switches stay more about the same (a more even course). With that said, I don't really care for the 45g Topre switches and under as they lack the springy-ness of the 55g Topre switches. You will hear some people complain about the lack of spring in Topre switches (or bounce back) as you go lower in weight.

I would take a Topre all 45g board over a red cherry board. I like both as my second and third best switches. The Topre 55g is easily the best switch I have tried in comparison though. Good luck with your feedback!
Title: Topre switch feel and variable weight
Post by: oneproduct on Tue, 01 November 2011, 22:25:48: Not referring to the feel of the switches for this second point, but for the distribution of the different switch forces among the board for non-uniform Realforces.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4079&stc=1&d=1251328787)
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4187&stc=1&d=1251726050)

If it follows the top distribution scheme then it seems odd as the right hand ring finger is 35g whereas the left hand ring finger is 45g.

If it follows the bottom distribution scheme then it's more symmetric and even has 40g weighted keys which the top scheme doesn't even include.

It's advertised with the top one but apparently some people think it's more like the bottom. The top one seems silly to me with the asymmetry and I would much prefer the bottom. We seem to have a lot of people with Realforces here so I'm somewhat surprised there isn't a solid consensus on this.
Title: Topre switch feel and variable weight
Post by: Trueepower on Wed, 02 November 2011, 10:34:20: Quote from: oneproduct;443822
Not referring to the feel of the switches for this second point, but for the distribution of the different switch forces among the board for non-uniform Realforces.

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4079&stc=1&d=1251328787)

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=4187&stc=1&d=1251726050)

If it follows the top distribution scheme then it seems odd as the right hand ring finger is 35g whereas the left hand ring finger is 45g.

If it follows the bottom distribution scheme then it's more symmetric and even has 40g weighted keys which the top scheme doesn't even include.

It's advertised with the top one but apparently some people think it's more like the bottom. The top one seems silly to me with the asymmetry and I would much prefer the bottom. We seem to have a lot of people with Realforces here so I'm somewhat surprised there isn't a solid consensus on this.

As much as some people don't like the variable, it is still very similar when typing with the 45g. It's just that some people have problems when they lay their fingers on the home row. As for gamers, it's understandable that you would want the 45g uniform. Some people get used to it, or modify their board. But, overall the 10th anniversary addition, variable, and 45g uniform are all extremely similar while typing and when you talk about a 5g difference it's pretty difficult to notice that difference on those keys. I am just not a fan of 45g, and below Topre keys altogether. They are super light (the 45g keys), but I find myself making less typing errors/gaming errors with them as opposed to the red cherry switches. Probably because the force is at the top so Topre can prevent accidental presses more. It's just those lighter variable keys on the home rows that can get some people.