It's an opinion. If you disagree with it, specify why.
It's an opinion. If you disagree with it, specify why.I have not shown anyone mechanical keyboards and them not like it. My girlfriend hates her old rubber dome now and everyone else has either bought one or said the only thing preventing them is the price.
For gaming.
Rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards for gaming due to the high resistance at the beginning and no resistance through. This ensures no fatigue and high accuracy because of the way rubberdomes work. You will always bottom out if you are playing intense matches and have to double tap repeatedly so the smooth motion is only useful for touch typing. Mechanicals are better built, have better durability, feel better, and are great for typist. Rubberdomes are better for gaming due to the point I said before. They just lack in the luxury part.
Troll
FYI,
- Posts you don't agree with aren't, necessarily, trolls.
Troll.
I'll try and make an argument about the red switches. The red switches are lighter and have the linear feel for fluency but they also induce accidental presses and I think that's a worse compromise to have.
[void arguments]
This is nonsense.
Get blacks or reds. Don't use buckling springs for gaming (I've tried) unless it is no action game.
For optimal grip I recommend doubleshot keys from Signature Plastics (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?20485-Double-shot-replacements-ROUND-FOUR!).
Yes but resting your hands on them is barely applying any pressure whatsoever. If you were in a intense game and you had to ensure that you made no mistakes, would you rather have the insurance with the higher resistance or would you rather have the extra fluency of the reds?
Yes but resting your hands on them is barely applying any pressure whatsoever. If you were in a intense game and you had to ensure that you made no mistakes, would you rather have the insurance with the higher resistance or would you rather have the extra fluency of the reds?In that case use blacks.
@OP - just curious, what games do you prefer domes for?I don't understand how you need tactility for gaming when you are going to bottom out the entire time, especially with a fps game. Like I said, I don't believe you are fully utilizing 6rko or even close to nrko.
I vastly prefer mechanicals for FPS as I need 6kro and the tactility/accuracy I get from using a switch that doesn't feel "mushy". I personally prefer mx clears, but I also like mx browns and topres for FPS. I've found that it's much improved the way I play.
MX reds are ok but a red switch in the spacebar makes me bunny hop all over the place.
In that case use blacks.
Wha? 'Fluency (also called volubility and loquaciousness) is the property of a person or of a system that delivers information quickly and with expertise.'I know when I hit the bottom of the rubberdome so I'm not sure what you mean by that. From what I understand the tactility is useful for touchtyping to know when to stop half way. The tactility isn't utilized when you are tapping extremely fast and you cant help but bottom out.
If I want to ensure that I make no mistakes a rubber dome is the first thing to avoid. When I get to the bottom of the key stroke I want to know it. More importantly (which is why I use browns) I want to know exactly when the key activated. Rubber dome does not give me this.
Okay, so here is what I've gathered so far:I didn't brush anyone off and I took everyone's opinion and gave them a reason on why it isn't valid (in my opinion) and that the compromises you make aren't justifiable. Being called a troll for a logical argument isn't a fair statement.
The OP states an opinion about rubber dome keyboards. He validates that they are acceptable for gaming by claiming that the actuation point (bottoming out) is very precise, and therefore it is easy to double tap and whatnot. This poster labeled the thread "Why rubber domes are better than mech. keyboards" and expected his opinion to be merrily accepted by the biggest collection of keyboard buffs on the internet!
Meanwhile, all persons trying to make a defense for mechanical keyboards are brushed off by the original poster as haters. Those calling him a troll (which is a fair statement, even if this thread somehow wasn't actually intending to be a troll thread) are slashed as ignorant.
Ripster, who came to the defense of this guy by pointing out the fact that, hey, all modern controller pads use rubber domes, is being "sarcastic." Truth be told, this is a good indication that properly implemented rubber domes are an excellent choice for gaming. Wii and PSx put them under double shot keys, and sell individual units for upwards of $30!
In conclusion, it seems that nobody can post in this thread and appease the OP. I suggest that nobody post after this, and we let the thread die. Done? Done.
For gaming.
Rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards for gaming due to the high resistance at the beginning and no resistance through. This ensures no fatigue and high accuracy because of the way rubberdomes work. You will always bottom out if you are playing intense matches and have to double tap repeatedly so the smooth motion is only useful for touch typing. Mechanicals are better built, have better durability, feel better, and are great for typist. Rubberdomes are better for gaming due to the point I said before. They just lack in the luxury part.
I didn't brush anyone off and I took everyone's opinion and gave them a reason on why it isn't valid (in my opinion) and that the compromises you make aren't justifiable. Being called a troll for a logical argument isn't a fair statement.
....
The problem I have here is that you busted through the doors with the cardinal sin of Geekhack thread name posts in a brash, ignorant manner. Why isn't this thread named:
"OPINION: Rubber domes better for gaming."
or
"Are rubber domes better for gaming?"
This is the name you chose:
"Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards."
The name you use implies that a rubber dome board is better than a mechanical switch board for all uses, for all people. To me, this isn't a "logical statement." I am a computer programmer and freelance writer, so I use my keyboard heavily. For me, the most comfortable, non-fatiguing typing experience is priority. Paying a little extra for this is not a big deal, because my investment will be returned with less fatigue and more happiness! There are people on this site who post full length articles on the pros and cons of every type of switch, in the hopes that people will be better informed about their buying decisions. Your title is far to broad and provokes anger.
...
I have no problem with your actual opinion. If you read my previous post, I agree that rubber domes can be quite useful for gaming! Nintendo has stood true to them since 1984, and you'd be hard pressed to hear somebody argue that a Nintendo brand controller is clumsy and imprecise. If rubber domes are the proper size, they are quite tactile and responsive.Like I said, it was a poor choice of words just like saying it was a logical argument. I'm not talking about bang for the buck either, I'm talking about the best for gaming.
The problem I have here is that you busted through the doors with the cardinal sin of Geekhack thread name posts in a brash, ignorant manner. Why isn't this thread named:
"OPINION: Rubber domes better for gaming."
or
"Are rubber domes better for gaming?"
This is the name you chose:
"Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards."
The name you use implies that a rubber dome board is better than a mechanical switch board for all uses, for all people. To me, this isn't a "logical statement." I am a computer programmer and freelance writer, so I use my keyboard heavily. For me, the most comfortable, non-fatiguing typing experience is priority. Paying a little extra for this is not a big deal, because my investment will be returned with less fatigue and more happiness! There are people on this site who post full length articles on the pros and cons of every type of switch, in the hopes that people will be better informed about their buying decisions. Your title is far to broad and provokes anger.
To clarify, I completely agree with the statement that, bang for buck, a well implemented rubber dome (scissor switch, not full travel) is a viable choice for gamers.
There is no "best for gaming." The only way to know which switch is best for you is to try many different types for an extended period of time and come to that conclusion yourself. People gather on this site because they were personally dissatisfied with the very switch you are promoting! You won't change people's minds with your arguing. They are different than you and have different needs.
Anyway, I've wasted too much time on this thread. Have fun making trouble ;)
Like I said, it was a poor choice of words just like saying it was a logical argument. I'm not talking about bang for the buck either, I'm talking about the best for gaming.
I'll try and make an argument about the red switches. The red switches are lighter and have the linear feel for fluency but they also induce accidental presses and I think that's a worse compromise to have.
There is definitely a best switch for gaming. Switches such as blue are less optimal for gaming due to the click before the actuation point and it's misleading.Obviously hasn't actually used the switches he is talking about and only repeats what he hears others saying. Disregard my previous post when I thought you were being for real.
There is no best for gaming. If there was then all the pros would be using the same thing and they aren't, some use rubber domes and others use a variety of mechanical switches.I said in the original post that because it is high resistance in the beginning, it allows you avoid accidental key presses.
I disagree, if I made more accidental presses with reds then I wouldn't use them. Also, you didn't answer the question I asked in that post.
this right here sums up 90% of the issues we have with new people posting these 'troll' posts on the forum. the OP clearly hasn't ever tried a mechanical kb, so even his 'opinion' is theory, at best.
1) no, not regardless. had you any experience on a mechanical keyboard, you would have said so. my opinion that your opinion is completely unfounded is just as valid as your own. as a result, your theory holds no weight beyond presumptions. in short, you don't know what you're talking about.
2) all you've shown is that you've done enough reading to know what you're talking about, but have absolutely no experience of what you're talking about. in theory, that's fine. however, you can't have a valid opinion, when your perspective covers only 50% of the argument.
1) no, not regardless. had you any experience on a mechanical keyboard, you would have said so. my opinion that your opinion is completely unfounded is just as valid as your own. as a result, your theory holds no weight beyond presumptions. in short, you don't know what you're talking about.
2) all you've shown is that you've done enough reading to know what you're talking about, but have absolutely no experience of what you're talking about. in theory, that's fine. however, you can't have a valid opinion, when your perspective covers only 50% of the argument.
how can you tell me that brussels sprouts suck at tasting good, when you've never tried them? taste is subjective. if you've never even tasted them, then what are you basing your opinion on? an assumption?
Please revisit this thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?22772-Cheap-alternatives)Posting that thread is irrelevant. I asked what a cheap alternative was because at the time I could not afford one. Do you assume because I never bought one, I haven't tried one out? So once again, you are just being presumptuous and making broad ignorant claims. You cannot have a intelligent conversation with someone who isn't intelligent.
I'm honestly curious to know your opinion (and how/if it changes), theory isn't very relevant when it's subjective. Buy a mechanical board, and then provide your impressions. Then we'll have an intelligent conversation.
Posting that thread is irrelevant. I asked what a cheap alternative was because at the time I could not afford one. Do you assume because I never bought one, I haven't tried one out? So once again, you are just being presumptuous and making broad ignorant claims. You cannot have a intelligent conversation with someone who isn't intelligent.
Are you telling me that the two points I made in my post are incorrect? Please let us know what you're founding your opinion on, you've already shared with us what your theory is.They are incorrect. I've tried blues browns and blacks. You haven't answered if you agree with the theory or not.
Be more specific about 'tried blues browns and blacks' Because I swung by MicroCenter to make the final decision between blues and browns and 'tried' blues. Trying consisted of typing away on a disconnected keyboard for maybe 30 seconds to a minute. I picked browns because I didn't like the noise of the blues.My friend owns a filco brown that I've used for an hour playing sc2 and I've used the steelseries 7g and blackwidow for 1 hour each at a store that let me play on them.
I 'tried' my Leopold w/ clears in the car after picking it off the mailbox on the way to my kids swimming... Trying it that way I was almost convinced it sucked. I had no idea whether or not I was activating keys because I wasn't bottoming out and damned near couldn't while typing at speed. Get home and plug it into the computer and the only key I had issues activating was the space bar. This because I was used to being gentle on my browns so as not to produce very audible *slams* between words.
Have you used a cherry switch board attached to a computer to accomplish anything, be it games or email or whatever?
Mechanicals are better built, have better durability, feel better, and are great for typist.
SOLD!
$10 shipped each? they're crap anyhow right?
Blacks are not much heaver than most rubber domes.The ancient blacks in my WYSE certainly FEEL lighter than my RD 'board.
For gaming.
Rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards for gaming due to the high resistance at the beginning and no resistance through. This ensures no fatigue and high accuracy because of the way rubberdomes work. You will always bottom out if you are playing intense matches and have to double tap repeatedly so the smooth motion is only useful for touch typing. Mechanicals are better built, have better durability, feel better, and are great for typist. Rubberdomes are better for gaming due to the point I said before. They just lack in the luxury part.
high resistance at the beginning and no resistance through.Now, I use scissors wore frequently than RD's, but I have a logitech G15 in here that I'm repairing, as well as a logitech "throwaway board" that I use to test things. Both of them, I feel lots of force until roughly halfway through the key travel, then the dome collapses, and there's low resistance.
This ensures no fatigue and high accuracy because of the way rubberdomes work.Once again, I disagree. Coming off RD's was strange for me, as I kept wanting to bottom out. Once I stopped that, I was able to go for a much longer timespan. The "work" (force X distance) of my fingers is lower, as the force required is less, and if I don't bottom out, the distance is much shorter. I think may will also agree in practise that mechanicals are better for fatigue. But, I'll also say that I don't usually game for more than a few hours, so this isn't an issue.
You will always bottom out if you are playing intense matchesI can easily keep control of myself, even in the most intense situations. I feel it's important to be able to excise a good level of control over my emotions and actions.
the smooth motion is only useful for touch typingI don't really know what you're getting at here. The smooth motion of some mechanicals isn't as good for touch typing as the tactility of others. I love my unicomp! When I game (see above) I don't bottom out that much, really the same amount as to when I'm typing (and more on the reds, but that's to be expected for now). Since I don't bottom out that much, the tactility really helps me game faster on browns. I haven't tried my reds yet (stupid take-home thermo test) but I imagine it'll be pretty good as well.
OP, you are a troll even if you honestly think you are not. Sorry.
high resistance at the beginning. This ensures no fatigue
The ancient blacks in my WYSE certainly FEEL lighter than my RD 'board.Here are some examples of pros playing that bottom out (you can hear and see them doing it) the entire game to ensure they pressed it or because of how light they are that they cannot help but bottom out.
Eh, I disagree, even in theory. Here's my thing:
Now, I use scissors wore frequently than RD's, but I have a logitech G15 in here that I'm repairing, as well as a logitech "throwaway board" that I use to test things. Both of them, I feel lots of force until roughly halfway through the key travel, then the dome collapses, and there's low resistance.
Once again, I disagree. Coming off RD's was strange for me, as I kept wanting to bottom out. Once I stopped that, I was able to go for a much longer timespan. The "work" (force X distance) of my fingers is lower, as the force required is less, and if I don't bottom out, the distance is much shorter. I think may will also agree in practise that mechanicals are better for fatigue. But, I'll also say that I don't usually game for more than a few hours, so this isn't an issue.
I can easily keep control of myself, even in the most intense situations. I feel it's important to be able to excise a good level of control over my emotions and actions.
I don't really know what you're getting at here. The smooth motion of some mechanicals isn't as good for touch typing as the tactility of others. I love my unicomp! When I game (see above) I don't bottom out that much, really the same amount as to when I'm typing (and more on the reds, but that's to be expected for now). Since I don't bottom out that much, the tactility really helps me game faster on browns. I haven't tried my reds yet (stupid take-home thermo test) but I imagine it'll be pretty good as well.
Of course you do make a good point: If you bottom out your mechanicals constantly, then there probably won't be that much of a benefit of mechanical keyswitches, but if you're using them properly, then there's plenty reason. I've found that I can "ride the activation point" of a liner switch a lot faster than a Rubberdome. As the switch comes back up, i find it really takes too long for it to do so, whereas on a linear mechanical, I can "Jitter" my finger, and go fast.
---
So that's my opinion. I've tried to justify it with some empirical evidence, and with some good, physical reasons. If there's anything I've said that isn't intelligent, I'd like to have a quick philosophical chat about the nature of intelligence, and how its' forms manifest themselves.
Edit: formatting and spelling
OP: re: "trying out" mech keyboards, before I comment on the merit on your "theory craft" on switches, I do believe that your informed opinions may have been formed due to insufficient data/experience, and that they are not reliable.The argument that you may feel more relaxed due to the lighter switches is the only valid thing I have seen which I also thought about before making the original post.
I do agree with the other members here that trying out a key switch type at least takes a week or two. Even now when I switch between my topre and brown and logitech scissors (and god forbid your average RD at public places) my accuracy and speed drops significantly (normal typing 100+ wpm drops to about 90) and takes about 10+ minutes to get up to within 5 wpm of my usual speed) So I reckon trying out a switch for the first time even takes longer to adjust.
To elaborate, as you mentioned, there may be "accidental presses" due to lower weight of the keys, however would you concede that you feel that your current RD don't have much accidental presses because you have become accustomed to the force, otherwise, your argument would only bring you to the conclusion that the heavier the switch the better, in which case it would probably still land you at a old IBM model M.
To further support my claim, when i switched from RD, i had lots of accidental presses for the first months or so, but now i have learned to not rest my fingers as hard on it, even during intense session of gaming, so it is just a matter of getting used to it.
To take matter even further, i can even go as far as to argue that lighter switches now allows my hand to be more relax throughout and have dropped fatigue level during intense sessions, of course i am theory crafting here like you are, and this claim though i believe closer to the true picture, is more of a matter of opinion than fact.
My theory craft also observed by a previous poster who says that since RD don't have a hard bottom like mech, in order to avoid the key not actuating (especially when you are just holding a key down) one may tend to press much harder than needed, especially in light of the fact that RD actuate at bottom slight removal of pressure would result in the key being released while mech have a good 2 mm of space.
You see how theory crafting is bringing us no where, i believe the right answer had been stated to you many times over, but you lack the experience to understand why it is the answer, and i so i repeat it here again, key switch choice is largely a matter of person taste, any attempt to justify it could not be purely on logic and the mechanics of the switch, and i don't think i exaggerate when i compare your thread here to a architect going to an art class trying to explain to everyone why Monet is better than Van Gough...
And to put you out of your misery, i believe the advice that would benefit you the most would most likely be buy a topre uniform 55 g and live happily ever after, but even then that is not fool proof, because due to your lack of experiences with other switch type, I don't think i should give any weight to the opinions you have given. Kind of like going to a restaurant and asking the cook to recommend you a dish and you said i have tried fish and i like it, and i have smelled meat before and it didn't smell like fish, its just not a lot for us to go on.
Here are some examples of pros playing that bottom out (you can hear and see them doing it) the entire game to ensure they pressed it or because of how light they are that they cannot help but bottom out.
If gaming is your reason for chosing a keyboard - you are either a child (of any age) or a Welfare recipient. Most of us past college age have more important things to do with a computer than waste valuable hours of our life self indulgently on one of the half million slight variations of Super Mario that constitute "computer games". To what end? Reminds me of my favorite gaming slogan - "World of Warcraft - Where 40 year old Virgins Unite!". At some point, OP, you will have to grow up. Sorry about that.I find that ironic that you make a post claiming that people have more important things to do than play video games yet you sit here typing this sentence that is a complete waste of time and is no benefit to yourself.
Most of us primarily use computers for things like family communications, jobs and information gathering to improve out lives, for instance. For that a real keyboard - a mechanical keyboard - has no equal. (When I was in college, I wasted a lot of time too, but that was long before personal computers. Reality set in then, too - I had to get a job.)
Yes, the OP is a Troll. But he was modestly entertaining. Hope he got what he came after. Thinkpad Fan
reds win
No one argued that mechanical keyboards were better for general purposes so you are just posting irrelevant things.The thread is titled "Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards."
The thread is titled "Why rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards."
I think that's why it's such a flame bait and you are called troll so often...
I believe I stated in the original post FOR gaming.
And even then it's still not 'true'. You are welcome to your opinion, but much like my opinion of faith... Keep it to yourself or at least go on about it quietly. Shouting from the rooftops is how people get shot.
Prove me wrong.
Uh yeah.. again, much like faith you don't want to be convinced, you want to argue or convince others. I've presented my arguments and I'm not going to rail on like a preacher. Others have given their opinions and again you just insist how wrong everyone else is.I believe I gave good reasons on why their opinions were wrong and I would love to be convinced, that's why I came here.
I believe I stated in the original post FOR gaming.
Ok, so what you're really saying is 'rubber domes are better for FOR gaming'. I have no idea what that is, but I respect your opinion.I thought that was clear in the original post, it's the first thing I said actually.
What annoys me is when people suck at a game and blame the keyboard. Like this one guy claimed cherry blues were bad for FPS. Then he posted a video of him running directly into smoke grenades in CS:S and getting sniped. Like duh, the keyboard isn't going to make you not suck!
Here's how it works (and I'm pretty sure this has been said before a few times)....
Do some research into what sort of switch might be of interest to you. I *liked* my rubber domes, but they always ended up getting uneven key feel or the sliders started to bind and it didn't take long. I decided on browns because I didn't like the noise of blues and wanted a tactile feel. Clears were not readily obtainable in a new board at the time and not at all available in the form factor I decided on (87-key). If you love RD, clear might be just what you're looking for. Coming off of browns I think they're a little too heavy but very similar to RD without the whole bottoming out thing.
Get a keyboard with that switch type and use it for a few weeks. Preferably as the only KB you use for everything. Then try your old rubber dome. I can't stand the exact same RD KB I really liked just before getting my mech KB.
I feel a little dirty posting in this thread, but...
I remember when people used to play games for "fun" and entertainment. If anyone still did that, I'd argue that using a mechanical keyboard would add to one's enjoyment of the experience. I find that having to use a rubber dome keyboard for any purpose is downright unpleasant now.
Anyone playing games "professionally" isn't going to have a problem with accidental keypresses on a light switch, or fatigue from bottoming out. They would be able to take advantage of the increased feedback of a mechanical keyboard and the added subtlety of being able to do things like ride the actuation point though.
Save up your allowance money and just grab a mechanical keyboard already.
The feedback it produces is negligible when you bottom out and are tapping repeatedly at fast speeds.
They would be able to take advantage of the increased feedback of a mechanical keyboard and the added subtlety of being able to do things like ride the actuation point though.
He already addressed that argument with the sentence immediately following the part you are refuting:You are talking about the subtlety of riding the actuation point? The post was referring to the negligible feedback you produce when you tap very fast and bottom out. Riding the actuation point is irrelevant like I said due to the fact that the light switches induce accidental key presses and the heavy switches produce fatigue. That's why I'm saying the rubberdome is the perfect middle ground for this.
Again you want to argue and not listen.
You are talking about the subtlety of riding the actuation point? The post was referring to the negligible feedback you produce when you tap very fast and bottom out. Riding the actuation point is irrelevant like I said due to the fact that the light switches induce accidental key presses and the heavy switches produce fatigue. That's why I'm saying the rubberdome is the perfect middle ground for this.
Riding the actuation point is a replacement for tapping (and bottoming) really fast. It has nothing to do with the lightness of the switch. And again, as a user of a keyboard you get familiar with the weight of the keys and accidents stop happening. As for 'and the heavy switches produce fatigue' most RD boards are classically in the heaviest class of switches, they are NOT the middle ground.
You're going in circles.
heavy switches produce fatigue.
a heavier switch will induce less mistakes than a lighter one.
light switches induce accidental key presses
You will get accustomed and mistake wont happen as often
They are heavy at the beginning and then completely depress and the weight is gone
same, but really... it's clear that he's unwilling to take what's been provided and revisit his 'theory', we've already proven that his opinion is flawed due to lack of reasonable experience.I am grateful but you have yet to give me any good reasons on why I am wrong.
--edit--
you know, now that i think about it, the OP should really be grateful that we've taken the time to walk him through the process that he's clearly ****ed up. most other forums would have found pictures of him picking his nose in primary school and photoshoped his head onto a lama or something by now.
I do, and will continue to, refuse to accept, or even meaningfully acknowledge, any of the good reasons you have or will give me on why I may, possibly, be wrong.
Here let me fix this for you."I don't care about your point", that's all I needed to see.
How you managed to drag 130+ postings out of this when is was clear on page one you were never going to listen with anything approaching an open mind to anything said is a tribute to the patience of the members of GH.
I don't care about your point. The factual errors in your statements are blatant to anyone reading with open eyes. The bits that are simply your opinion are just that, your opinion.
The amusing stuff is in the stuff like the invention of fake knowledge of the preferences of 'most professional gamers' and the details of the reasons for those imagined preferences. Such desperate tactics are obvious to everyone and if you think you are doing anymore than providing light entertainment in your desperate efforts to avoid accepting that your original point was weak and your attempts to defend it, pathetic, then you are deeply mistaken.
Please do keep going. Yours could well end up being one of the textbook exercises in how not to make and defend an argument.
really?Please show me the light if you feel you have some how proven that your reasoning is better than mine.
seriously?
i'm curious how you're even capable of replying to these posts... you're clearly blind.
I don't touch type, but still manage 80-100wpm
If you can't touch type how can you possibly manage that speed? Is the word you're typing "a"? :D
I'm thinking it's that confusion about what touch typing means... SadButTrue, touch typing means not looking. It does not mean putting your fingers where that damned typing teacher insists they need to be. I don't even know if that technique has a name, but it's not touch typing.
i think you've glazed over quite a few posts in this thread. why don't you go re-read them. it's not just my proving that your reasoning is totally unsound, but EVERYONE in this thread is telling how and why you've approached this incorrectly.I re-read it and I didn't glaze over any posts, I took them into consideration, pointed out the compromises they make for those reasons and how they aren't worth it and then further validated my reasoning to justify why rubberdomes are better for gaming. I suggest you stop glazing over my posts and stop being so heavily biased.
I re-read it and I didn't glaze over any posts, I took them into consideration, pointed out the compromises they make for those reasons and how they aren't worth it and then further validated my reasoning to justify why rubberdomes are better for gaming. I suggest you stop glazing over my posts and stop being so heavily biased.
we're saying that you don't have a valid amount of experience to be able to discount ANY of what's posted in this thread. you can't possibly know better than someone that's actually doing any amount of gaming on both RD and mechanical keyboards, much less USED a mechanical keyboard for more than an hour.The experience is irrelevant because the fact is, the majority if not all the things that I have said are true and the only debate happening right now is who can be the most biased and ignorant. Thanks for further justifying my reasoning and not proving why I am wrong other than your broad, unintelligent, childish attempts to justify your purchase.
period.
as far as being heavily biased... my ONLY position here is that it's subjective, and that it's different for every person. well, that, and that you're wrong.
I know I said that I was done posting here, but you're absolutely right! We just needed a visionary to tell us about the advantages of bottoming out on a keyboard! A visionary like YOU, sir. We've all been biased fools, there's no denying it. I will now ceremoniously take all of my mechanical keyboards and toss them into the trash. Rubber domes forever!Please don't speak on the topic if you have nothing to contribute.
I apologize for doubting you, and the I'm sure geekhack community apologizes as well. You're free to leave the site now. Your work is done.
They are heavy at the beginning and then completely depress and the weight is gone unlike blacks where it is heavy all the way through. The majority of professional players bottom out to ensure it has been pressed because no mistakes can be made. You will get accustomed and mistake wont happen as often but it still doesn't change the fact that a heavier switch will induce less mistakes than a lighter one.
Please don't speak on the topic if you have nothing to contribute.
Stop the ****ing bus. According to who? and for who? They're certainly not true for me. Just because you might like to take it up the ass on rainy Sunday afternoons doesn't mean I like to. That's what subjective means. it is NOT fact, it is NOT absolute.It's just a simple fact that what I said was true. I must of struck a nerve so considering your emotional state, you will once again be to heavily biased towards your beloved keyboard that it will be impossible to convince you otherwise. I proved why it was true. Feel free to respond to this with another one of your ignorant statements.
as for being biased and ignorant, that flatly defines your position. my position is that the only bias is a personal one.
If you read my post, you'd see that I'm agreeing with you. Everyone on this site is biased about rubber domes ability to bottom out! You are the only one that's right!The problem with your post is that you really didn't contribute anything, you didn't actually add anything to the topic other than what we already know.
The problem with your post is that you really didn't contribute anything, you didn't actually add anything to the topic other than what we already know.
It's just a simple fact that what I said was true.
...so considering my emotional state, I will once again be so heavily biased towards my beloved keyboard that it will be impossible to convince me otherwise.
I argued why it was true, and am unwilling to accept any of your arguments at all, no matter how sound the basis
I will feel free to respond with another of my ignorant statements.
My apologies. You did forget to mention that most rubber domes have pad printing. This raised surface allows for better friction between the finger and the key than any mechanical keyboard with double shots. That's +2.
Wow.
I don't know what's worse. The troll itself or the feeding thereof.
Good luck.
okay.Prove me wrong. I've completely solidified my argument as a fact and you have yet to prove why I am wrong.
the nerve you struck was one of assumption. you ASSUME what you're spouting off is fact. it is not. as such, it is not true. as a result, all of the **** you've spewed all over our beloved forum is garbage. this has nothing to do with keyboards anymore. the keyboard is irrelevant, the only point to be made here is that you have absolutely no evidence or experience to validate your theory. your theory is fatally flawed in that you assume there is an absolute 'best' or 'better' keyboard for any one task, when in fact, every person has different ergonomics, and that what might be optimal for you is not for me.
refute that.
i get that... but i'm getting paid to amuse myself, and i got caught up on work earlier this morning. in short, i've got nothing better to do right now :pI'm quite amused by your ignorance and bias opinions myself.
I like my frictiony surfaced PBTs :)
Prove me wrong. I've completely solidified my argument as a fact and you have yet to prove why I am wrong.
Wow.
I don't know what's worse. The troll itself or the feeding thereof.
Good luck.
Rarely seen such a fat troll...Don't post in the topic if you have nothing to contribute.Show Image(http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/16002902/2/stock-illustration-16002902-big-fat-troll-orc-in-forest.jpg)
Hahahahaha. I'm staying out of taking sides on this one but applaud your willingness to debate the point.I don't understand how you are a forum moderator, everything you have posted hasn't contributed at all.
Groupthink is a terrible thing.
[video=youtube;Vkw2DdoskPY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkw2DdoskPY&feature=fvw[/video]
See The McRip Effect (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23217-Announcing-the-LATEST-Ripster-Keyboard-Theorem-The-quot-McRip-Effect-quot-!) for more examples.
hmm... must have missed that. did you get published somewhere in the last two days? as far as i can tell, the only fact in this thread is that i'm acting like an *******, and you're an idiot. oh, and that you can't prove what isn't fact. that, and there's certainly nothing anywhere near evidence in this thread to prove your point, anywhere. the only evidence in this thread validates me being an ******* and you being an idiot.Once again, you haven't proven why I am wrong..
that's the beauty of a subjective argument. what's right for me CAN be wrong for you. however, the fact that you ARE wrong is not subjective. you're allowed to prefer domes are better for gaming, that's okay.
I don't understand how you are a forum moderator, everything you have posted hasn't contributed at all.
Once again, you haven't proven why I am wrong..
I admire Slugx's persistence. My advice: repeatedly saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true. In fact, that's what crazy people do. Hum, now I pity Slutx.I proved why my reasons are right and why their reasons are wrong.
Alright, visitation period is over!
I don't understand how you are a forum moderator, everything you have posted hasn't contributed at all.
I proved why my reasons are right and why their reasons are wrong.
Did I miss something... I know this thread is long now, but I would have swore you didn't prove anything about your primary point. A whole lot of proof about you personally tho... plenty of that.
Did I miss something... I know this thread is long now, but I would have swore you didn't prove anything about your primary point. A whole lot of proof about you personally tho... plenty of that.I suggest you re-read the thread because the only way you did not see me prove why I am right is if you glazed over the posts and missed all the reasons on why I am right and they are wrong.
I don't understand how you are a forum moderator, everything you have posted hasn't contributed at all.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact)
see definition 3, that's the only one that applies to your claim: a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true
do not have enough anecdotal experience or observation to make your claim fact.
again, what is not fact cannot be proven. it is subjective. you're basing your 'fact' and 'theory' on opinion. that's the definition of subjective. see here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/subjective (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/subjective)
there's absolutely nothing to prove. why don't you get that?
stop telling us to re-read the thread, i know what you haven't posted.The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about.
but that isn't the point. if you want to prove something, do it! show me fact, show me evidence, use the scientific method (rip is drooling now). it is, after all 'us' that you're trying to convince. i've gone so far as to show you what you need to do... that's more than you'd get on the street, i would have shiv'd you by now.
thank you! you get it!It was directed towards you. Not smart enough to catch on I guess, I should have clarified that for someone of your intelligence.
finally!
Seriously? Do you really think that any one of us has managed to go through life and not use an RD ? We know RDs... that's why we're here.
That's just my opinion on the subject. You are free to be offended by it but that's just what I personally think. I'm entitled to my opinion.
EDIT: Also, could you people please make a reasonable argument instead of calling me a troll. If you disagree with someone, be specific and try to do in a intelligent manner instead of like a "troll".
That's not the point, I've supplied all the evidence and reasoning behind why it is better and you continue to ignore and belittle my facts with childish bias opinions.
I never understood the point of NRKO when you don't even utilize even close to that many presses. You use 2rko at most in a RTS and maybe 3-4 keys in a FPS.
Not true at all, I could easilly use all 5 keys at once in FPS tournaments (sometimes 6). I frequently had ghosting problems on every rubber dome until I started using better matrixed boards such as mechanicals. A lot of rubber domes actually require more force than some mechanical switch types. Audible feedback aids significantly in finger speed. I understand the argument you are trying to make here, but it is based on false premises.You are acting like rubberdomes aren't capable of 6rko... I'm currently using one right now that does 6rko and there are even ones that surpass that. It helps in finger speed for typing, not for gaming... I already said why the tactile feedback is useful for typing and not for gaming.
A pro gamer with $100,000+ on the line would not gamble on whether or not their commands get ghosted. Only people that are so used to RD's that they can't play well without it still use them.
They can be capable of 6kro, and a lot of the people raging in this thread are topre fans (which is a rubber dome). But I think you are missing the point, that reliability is important, and the force required argument makes no sense since there are many mechanical switches as light, sometimes lighter than rubber domes.I'm not sure what you are saying, the rubberdomes activation pressure is heavy and then depressed with no pressure through. I'm saying this hybrid is the best middleground to ensure no fatigue and high accuracy.
This thread needs force charts. Like in the Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide stickied above, written by yours truly.I'll need factual evidence instead of a drawn up graph that you made.
(Attachment) 30661[/ATTACH]
perhaps we should ask you to provide the graphs, this is after all your theory/claim/opinion. check the wiki, most of them are present already, and provided by manufacturers.Wiki isn't a valid source for information, you would know that if you were intelligent.
know your roll noob.
Wiki isn't a valid source for information, you would know that if you were intelligent.
A wiki is only as good as the author. Since the Geekhack ones are from the Number One Keyboard Expert On The Planet they are pretty good.If you are the one who made the graph, then I don't believe it at all. Give me facts.
And Harrison, it's "role".
Everyone, seriously. There is no doubt any longer that this guy is trolling us. Please stop posting.Once again, this type of attitude is a form of ignorance. It's a fact that wiki isn't a valid source.
Luckily then for Veritas I didn't make that graph.Provide a link to where you found the graph and prove how the person is a reliable source.
I'm kind of a lazy wiki writer. I steal my graphs from Asia and my content from Deskthority.net.
Is this a college paper? Anyway, I'm quite good about providing sources in my wikis. UNLIKE Deskthority.net and OCN's Mechanical Keyboard Guide.You are proving a fact, provide the fact.
You first.
If you are the one who made the graph, then I don't believe it at all. Give me facts.
amazing... unbelievable how far somebody takes it before he admits that he is wrong/not prepared for this discussion here on geekhack.You believe things that aren't proven, therefore, you are unintelligent.
even though i have my discrepant with ripster. his data has always been accurate.
but anyway, i think this kind of attitude is deliberate in this case.... aka trolling
(Attachment) 30663[/ATTACH]
You believe things that aren't proven, therefore, you are unintelligent.
yeah, i mean... it's kind of hard to refute the fact that he's been proven wrong by nearly everyone in this thread with solid evidence, dictionaries, sound logic and even data collected using the scientific method. if he's going to discredit all of that, and ask for sources and provide nothing but opinion for this theory... well... that speaks more volumes that i've ever posted.Present the evidence, sound logic and scientific method that has been shown and sum it up for me and stop making broad unintelligent claims.
Present the evidence, sound logic and scientific method that has been shown and sum it up for me and stop making broad unintelligent claims.
Wiki isn't a valid source for information, you would know that if you were intelligent.
**** me mate, how more proven then force charts from manufacturers can you go?
tell me please, what is need to make you believe?
nobel-prize-winners disquisition on all keyboards/switches?
What manufacturers, how reliable is the manufacturers information, is it a valid source, is it a proven? These are things you have to ask people, please don't just believe everything you see.
Oh, boy is it getting old now. It's been stated that rubber domes are quite good for gaming when implemented correctly. You really have nothing better to do than annoy a bunch of grown men, do youGrown men that act like children with no sense for intelligent debate it appears.
Ripster, about the trolls here; I tried to be level headed earlier on. I really did. After the thread went over 150 posts and the OP was still hurling the insults of a prepubescent boy it just seemed like the time to have a laugh at him.
well, you didnt present any data at all....
Using childish insults because he thinks he is somehow disproving my fact.Show Image(http://troll.me/images/brick-tamland/op-is-a-candy-ass-i-like-candy-but-i-love-lamp.jpg)
I LIKE LAMP
(i can't actually see the image because websense has blocked it, but the name is just too perfect. please tell me if it's as awesome as i think it is)
Actually that particular force graph isn't from a manufacturer. But I trust it nonetheless. I shave with Occam's Razor every morning.Admitting it isn't a reliable source, fact.
garbage in, garbage out. there is no 'data' other than what ripster and i have posted, and no source for anything you've posted, only opinions and observations based on unsubstantiated evidence. how do we know you tried mechanical keyboards in a store? how do we know you have a friend, or said friend has a filco? i'll need to see your passports, birth certificates, and the serial numbers from the keyboards.If that is necessary.
Grown men that act like children with no sense for intelligent debate it appears.
Your words hurt.
Rubberdomes are better than mechanical keyboards for gaming due to the high resistance at the beginning and no resistance through.
This ensures no fatigue and high accuracy because of the way rubberdomes work.
You will always bottom out if you are playing intense matches and have to double tap repeatedly so the smooth motion is only useful for touch typing.
Mechanicals are better built, have better durability, feel better, and are great for typist. Rubberdomes are better for gaming due to the point I said before. They just lack in the luxury part.
anyway,
cats prefer mac-keyboards and therefore these boards are best
there you go, scientific proof at its best!
(Attachment) 30665[/ATTACH]
now you can close this thread as we found the incontestable truth
i know! this kept me entertained for well over 4 hours!
we need some kind of merit badge or something. the "i fought a troll and won" achivement.
nothing like a little troll smashing to bring us closer together.
no... sadly we didn't get a last word out of him.:), i beat a troll with 2 posts, I feel like a winner even if it doesn't get closed.
http://geekhack.org/member.php?14115-Slux (http://geekhack.org/member.php?14115-Slux)
QuoteIt's just your opinion that he's been banned. Show me proof.http://geekhack.org/member.php?14115-Slux
They aren't. Please see all the bugs I've posted in the feedback thread.
Plus "spoiler" tags sure would be nice. Phpbb has those.
Nobody answered my question why the pro gamers do so well on rubber domes.
...
Nobody answered my question why the pro gamers do so well on rubber domes.
I would, JUST ONCE, love to see one of these trolling threads not get past the first page.
A pro golfer is better with a $5 set of clubs than an amateur with a $5000 set.
New, short travel RDs are quite good for gaming imho, but that doesn't mean they're the "best for everybody." GH would not exist if that were the case.