geekhack
geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: NewbieOneKenobi on Thu, 03 November 2011, 03:24:23
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So here's my stuff:
Intel E7200 (candidate for upgrading)
Asus P5Q-E (hate it but Windows OEM licence...)
A-DATA Vitesta 2x2GB DDR2 (buy a second pair?)
Samsung F1 640 GB HDD (half full, don't need capacity)
nVidia GTX460 (probably bottlenecked by the CPU)
PSU: Tagan Silent Force 520W or so (two-rail, might be the reason behind GFX glitches).
The reason I worry about upgrading is that newer tech is at least equally priced if not cheaper right now, at least where I live. So I might as well ignore any upgrades to this one and just buy another, new computer, keeping the graphics card (I have a spare HD4850 to put in this box before semi-retiring it), although I'd have to fork out a bigger lump of cash one-off. I'd also have to buy a new Windows OEM. On the other hand, I'd love to replace the PSU and the box itself too, and I've already wasted cash upgrading in the past to the point of promising myself never to upgrade any old computer again.
My primary use for this PC, as far as needing horsepower goes, is gaming, while work use could perhaps appreciate RAM. When this computer was new and strong, I didn't have games to play or time to do so. Now I have more time but not really heaps of it. Upgrading one or two things to make the computer last could help me survive until next Windows version or until next CPU generation or until Mass Effect 3. The obvious candidates for upgrading here are CPU and RAM. RAM will be useful for loading times (primary reason), avoidance of crashes (when capacity runs out and bad things start to happen), and CPU, well, obviously just for the horsepower, mainly to stop bottlenecking the graphics card.
Now, how much improvement would I get from swapping to 8400 or 8500 or 8600?
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the next gen of cpu should be ivy bridge, which comes out in march. i'd just overclock the cpu you have and wait it out. if you actually run out of memory then you might want to buy more, but last time i checked ddr2 actually costs more than ddr3
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How much are you willing to spend to upgrade? With $600 you could buy a very decent computer that could run games at medium-high settings for most games.
A car with 150,000 miles that gets a new set of tires will still have 150,000 miles on it.
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As far as gaming goes, not that much. I'd just overclock the FSB to 333 and call it a day. This should last you for a little while longer. It really isn't worth upgrading the CPU unless you can find a used one cheaply.
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Intel E7200 (candidate for upgrading)
Shame you didn't pick up a Q6600, still going strong for some, only a few recent games have put the squeeze on it. Since you have S775.
Asus P5Q-E (hate it but Windows OEM licence...)p
Windows what? W7?. OEM? As in bought from a retailer OEM/starter? or system builder? If it's a system builder just install it into a new mobo either it transfers the license(online contact) or call MS and say your mobo friend(or if you get a robot, less of a hassle) and replacing it and transfer the license.
A-DATA Vitesta 2x2GB DDR2 (buy a second pair?)
Well 4GB is the norm for those who buy ram. Only problem I see is your looking at an older market while the newer DDR3 is around and dirt cheap for many brands.
Samsung F1 640 GB HDD (half full, don't need capacity)
Spinpoints are pretty good HDD some of the best on the market. Maybe an SSD if you did say don't need capacity but they can be expensive and your probably using SATA2 or 3.
nVidia GTX460 (probably bottlenecked by the CPU)
A little but it depends some have mentioned overclocking it to around 3.2-3.4 does help a bit. From some of the sites around and forum posts seems like there is a bottleneck but not something terrible but it's there.
PSU: Tagan Silent Force 520W or so (two-rail, might be the reason behind GFX glitches).
Never heard of them till now. Remember the most important part is the PSU; no power, no computer. People spend money on good parts, they find out it's too much cheapen out on PSU and things of that nature and then **** happens.
I've already wasted cash upgrading in the past to the point of promising myself never to upgrade any old computer again.
Sometimes it's not a bad idea if you know what your doing. But I agree sometimes no matter how much better hardware you add to help, other hardware needs to change.
Now, how much improvement would I get from swapping to 8400 or 8500 or 8600?
I'd say not much you can overclock your E7200 first of all. Second of all the biggest difference seems to be the L2 cache 3MB(E7) vs 6MB(E8). You might as well overclock the E7200 a little more and get a bit less bottleneck than a few % more FPS from the additional L2. It sounds like you already own the E84/85/86, if you already do own them then put one in after testing your E7200 but you might not see much of a difference, they are both from the same family of architecture after all.
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Never heard of them till now. Remember the most important part is the PSU; no power, no computer. People spend money on good parts, they find out it's too much cheapen out on PSU and things of that nature and then **** happens.
Tagan uses Topower, which is a 2nd tier OEM. It's no worse than junk CWT pushes out (True Powers, Corsair CX, etc). Anyhow, go Seasonic or go home.
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I had an e8400 and I upgraded to an i2500k build. TBH if you're still running socket 775 and you do semi-serious gaming, and you're monetarily comfortable, time for an upgrade.
Ivy Bridge isn't gonna be a game changer anyways. Maybe run a bit cooler.
Edit: Seasonic is good. I swear by high end antecs.
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Well, guys, it looks like more modern CPUs and RAM are already cheaper than what I have, plus, to be honest, I hate my mobo because of the frequent inexplicable losses of CMOS memory (but somehow connected with shutting off power), nor do I trust my PSU, so I guess this looks like a new computer should be underway.
I could theoretically keep my chassis, graphics, music, HDD, even DVD drive, even the PSU, at least for the time being, to save on the expenses, which would mean buying a mobo + CPU + RAM + Windows. But that would mean making the current computer basically unusable, whereas I'd prefer to keep it operational.
So I guess the optimal choice is a new PC after all. I could try overclocking but the problem here is that the mobo can't keep CMOS settings for whatever reason (battery is good), so putting back the overclock tends to be a pain. Nor do I really have the time, patience and attention span to test carefully all the small increments of FSB/CPU frequencies. Also had some stability/artifact problems, even without overclocking (on this GTX460 and the previous ATI 4850, so perhaps it was the PSU having a single 12V rail). I guess I'll have to try my hand at overclocking again (I do have an aftermarket cooler, Aerocool GT-1000, but I don't think it's oh so great).
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Dude I'm running an E6600 and I can't wait to jump on SB-e ! was going to be faildozer but meh ....
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Before you upgrade, try playing some games to see if the performance is acceptable first.
Call Microsoft. They tend to let you activate on new mobo if you call them.
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Hi, guys. I need to necro my thread.
A new PSU is coming. I've confirmed I'm a couple of amps short under load, in terms of graphics. Nothing fancy since I don't want to overspend. Just an OCZ ZS 650W with a 46A single rail. Probably might as well have got the 550W one for slightly less but didn't want to overskimp. Should be in my house Monday or Tuesday. I'll probably be playing around with fans and maybe repasting my processor while already at it. I figured I'd have some additional juice, so I might as well use 2 more fans on the casing.
Right now I'm looking at i3, i5 and i7 processors and not finding enough reason to get one, as well as a new mobo, which would require new RAM and new Windows OEM. It seems better to get an e8600 or at least e8500 and maybe another 4 GB of the same RAM if I can find it, while deferring the new computer purchase until Windows 8 OEM is out. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The idea is that I'm basically going to check out auctions and get a used piece at a bargain price if I find one. If not, then not and no big deal. (If I were to spend real bucks for factory-new stuff, I'd be buying a new computer.) This makes me think about Core 2 Quad processors because some people sell them sometimes. Am I correct in understanding that Quad is pointless for gaming? Or does it make sense to get a Quad in my situation? If so, which would be the (s)lowest Quad that would make enough difference from my e7200 to justify?
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E8500 and 8600 isn't that abundant, so you'd pay a premium over, say, a E8400. Both of my E8400 hit 400FSB (3.6ghz) without any voltage tweak. If you can find a Q9450 at a reasonable price, I'd get that. There are games that does scale above 2 cores now. I'd imagine more games in the future would be as well. I am not entirely convinced you need more ram. Can't hurt, seeing that people are dumping their old setup and you should be able to pick up some used DDR2 at reasonable price.
IMO the best way is to bear with the computer for now and upgrade to Ivybridge + Win8 at the same time.
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E8500 and 8600 isn't that abundant, so you'd pay a premium over, say, a E8400. Both of my E8400 hit 400FSB (3.6ghz) without any voltage tweak. If you can find a Q9450 at a reasonable price, I'd get that. There are games that does scale above 2 cores now. I'd imagine more games in the future would be as well. I am not entirely convinced you need more ram. Can't hurt, seeing that people are dumping their old setup and you should be able to pick up some used DDR2 at reasonable price.
To be honest, it's like it doesn't hurt to me too in case of RAM. That and maybe 1) faster save game load times (Shogun 2 etc.), 2) some performance/smoothness boost from delaying the moment when Windows inevitably exhausts all available RAM and starts milling the hard drive for current business. Otherwise I don't need it, and it's upsetting to see that DDR3 is already much, much cheaper. I remember the same kind of thing with DDR1 and DDR2 except DDR1 could be given like CL1 latencies, which paid off, especially with AMD processors. Not sure if DDR3 is worth it over DDR2 but it certainly is newer tech and I really wouldn't like to be overpaying due to the rarity factor. Right now it seems people want to make money on the RAM rather that avoid collecting dust.
IMO the best way is to bear with the computer for now and upgrade to Ivybridge + Win8 at the same time.
Yeah. I more and more realise that and I suspect I'm just having the "it's time to upgrade" twitch or some other type of not very logical thinking. I should probably spend some time overclocking the 7200 and seeing what's the best stable speed I can get. The new PSU should eliminate the problems I have with my graphics card, and if I confirm this by not experiencing any of them after the swap, then I'll know that any glitches I see while OC-ing are coming from the CPU and not the card. I remember the CPU hitting 4 GHz at some point but I never got around to testing the stability of it properly.
I was inclined to think that the OC difference between 7200 and 8400-8600 wouldn't be so big but if you mention 400 FSB on same voltage, that makes me hesitate.
I also wonder if I couldn't survive on, say, the best processor of the LGA 775 slot that's reasonable to pay for, equipped with an additional 4 GB of RAM for 8 GB total, delaying the moment of buying a whole new computer. Say, to the point when DDR4 is released as system RAM or PCI-E 16 replaced with a newer slot for graphics. See, the problem is that I appreciate fluency and cute graphics in games much due to the scarce free time I typically have for gaming, but I don't have that many games and, again, the time for gaming is also limited. So investments are often liable to becoming a waste of money, whether I upgrade or get a new box.
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My first E84 hit 4.4 at 1.5v, which was a little high for my taste, and the 2nd one from a later stepping hit 4.5 @1.45v (final clocks is 4.25@1.375v). Just for reference.
It is always tempting to buy the latest and greatest, but as usual, buying as much as you need is better on your wallet. I am not sure how much a E84 or E85 would cost now, but shouldn't be too unreasonable. Since you have limited time, you should enjoy as much as your wallet permits :)
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Wait until Ivy Bridge is more or less out and then put together a dirt cheap Sandy Bridge system when retailers are trying to clear old inventory.