geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Lmnr on Sat, 05 November 2011, 17:18:26
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SOOO Yea Topre as a first mech? since I keep hearing that its the one and well it gets around haha. Yes i've thoroughly searched up info on others but i've been considering the quality of the keycaps of say the filcos and duckys..no good. But the keycaps of topres seem to be excellent and very sturdy plus the topre switch since i've been using a kb-3923 and its still a rubberdome but not as bad as the others.
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You can always replace keycaps. And what do you mean by "it gets around?" Is that one of your criteria for getting a mech keyboard?
I don't know if someone can answer your question with just key caps and "getting around" as the only evaluative points.
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Well I mean that as in allot of people have some sort of topre. If they have a collection they olmost always say its their favorite.
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I also can't afford to spend another 50 bucks just for another set of keycaps. Id rather just find the jack of all trades.
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well Cherry board is $100 but a Topre board is $300. You could buy 2 Cherry switch boards and PBT keycaps for each for the price of a Topre board.
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The reason everybody that has topre loves them is because the ones that didn't sold theres.
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Well, the fun thing about mech keyboards is that you get to try out different switches but it sounds to me like you just wanna buy one and call it quit then yeah, go for it. It's your money anyway. =P
Also for me, Topre is just another type of switch (glorified rubber dome, if you will). There are plenty of people who prefers Cherry MX over Topre on this forum.
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Topre FTW!
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Well consider the price of a RealForce [$345] ! you can buy 3 *brand new* Leopolds from EK for the price of a Realforce [thats a blue switch, a brown switch and probably a red or clear cherry switch] (or 3 used filcos) whatever floats your boat.... Personally I've been told that if you go from rubber domes to Topre the feel is meh.... -
IMHO for your first mech grab a brown switch, filco or Leopold, TenKeysLess or a full board.
If you buy a Filco for 150$ + $50 for PBT keycaps that is 145$ cheaper than buying a Topre and $200 cheaper if you go for a leopold! - but in the first instance you can have the Filco for $150 - abuse the keys and in time replace with a set of PBT.
The Topre is an itch which you should scratch with time and when you have money in your pocket. I for one am planning to have tried every switch before I commit to try a variable Topre, a 45g uniform Topre and a 55g uniform Topre - thats over the next 10 years !!!
Also appreciate getting custom keycaps will be easier on cherry MX than Topre.
Not sure what you mean by gets around? sounds like what I used to call one of those nympho girls back in high school :D
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I've got a 45g Realforce coming on Monday, but I'm not expecting to like it as much as my Filco with browns. Perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised though.
I don't think there's any kind of consensus on a best keyboard, and it probably makes sense to start with the ones that aren't $300. Some people even prefer the ABS keycaps that come on most keyboards over the PBT ones.
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I assume that the 45g is a TKL if you end up not liking it you make have a buyer for a used one. Also may I ask why you prefer ABS?
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Ok but from what I hear is people buy Filcos,Duckys,Rose,Noppoo,KBC and even IBM's model M and they refer to the rf as the "best". It confuses me how you go on a shopping spree like that and they are still willing to buy a topre for 200+ and say it's the best.
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The "BEST" is always subjective.
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The 45g on the way is indeed tenkeyless. I'll probably hold onto it, but I'm a little concerned about it not being springy enough for my tastes.
I didn't say that I preferred ABS, just that *some* people do. ;)
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Ok but from what I hear is people buy Filcos,Duckys,Rose,Noppoo,KBC and even IBM's model M and they refer to the rf as the "best". It confuses me how you go on a shopping spree like that and they are still willing to buy a topre for 200+ and say it's the best.
There are people that consider cherry/buckling better than Topre - like I said get what the rest of the sheep get (including me) ("Brown Cherry MX") - diversify from there
there is no "I'll get the perfect one on the first go" you aint going to know unless you try it!
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hmm I see... I did see some interesting Filcos but since ive been doing research in my own time I figure out whats best. Ended up finding posts about them that said that they get the "ping" sometimes. Then that they have low quality ABS keycaps. I am also thinking of getting the ek leopolds for like 109.
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ping... ROFL
Well, the designer of the Filco's and Leopold's says that a Leopold is better and I tend to agree, though the stabilizer choice is a killer for some.
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hmm I see... I did see some interesting Filcos but since ive been doing research in my own time I figure out whats best. Ended up finding posts about them that said that they get the "ping" sometimes. Then that they have low quality ABS keycaps. I am also thinking of getting the ek leopolds for like 109.
Yes that is the case with some boards though there is also the breaking in period which I can testify to! my board started out pinging, as I got used to it, stopped bottoming out, no more ping
but yea - plate mounted cherry brown board -- should keep you happy for a while
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OH and since ek has every possible cherry mx switch for leopold.... brown or clear? :D
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I love clears but their definitely not for everyone.
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So im guessing browns are the jack of all trades huh. Are clears that much different?
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Yes, they have the same spring as a black and the tactile bump of a blue (I think that would be the best way to describe them). Lots of people would like the tactile bump but not the weight of the switch that is why a fair amount of people have modded their clear switches making Ergo-Clears.
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Clears and blacks have a completely different spring.
I.e. "panda" clears = a clear switch with a black spring.
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Clears and blacks have a completely different spring.
is the force to compress the spring comparable at least more so that a brown or blue spring? That is why I used that as a description not a direct substitution.
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They are definitely more alike in force than a brown/blue/red (all the same spring). But the difference is noticeable.
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But modding to ergo clears would require 2 different sets of switches :L clears by themselves.. are they better than browns to an extent?
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But modding to ergo clears would require 2 different sets of switches :L clears by themselves.. are they better than browns to an extent?
They have the click feel but not the sound. Comparable to a hybrid between blue and brown where the feel is that of blue's and sound of brown's.
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But modding to ergo clears would require 2 different sets of switches :L clears by themselves.. are they better than browns to an extent?
you could get a keyboard with red, blue, or brown switches, and buy the clear stems from the classifieds. You can get a full set of clear stems for $30. Somewhere around there.
and yes, I think they are better than browns. But I think everything is better than browns, so that is probably not a helpful opinion :P
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So a more recognizeable click feel when you type versus the browns?
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But modding to ergo clears would require 2 different sets of switches :L clears by themselves.. are they better than browns to an extent?
It's really individual preference. Browns are going to be softer and clears are going to be firmer. I think that browns are generally the safer choice, but it's hard to say which switch you'd like more.
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Cherry's doubleshot keycaps are considered some of the best quality keyboard keycaps you can get. And guess what they are compatible to? Filco, Ducky, Leopold, to name a few. I personally never heard of doubleshots of Topre.
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I believe they are considered some of the best because the legends cant wear and they are thicker but they are still ABS.
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Hmm I guess I was curious to try clears since they are thought of as a better brown supposedly. I guess a 109$ Leopold would be a good choice.. any thoughts on em?
I guess most of my knowledge is from what others have said online. Since where I live all I can try are ****-widows and some random SIIG "Mechanical keyboard" and now the new mionix zibal 60 which looks cheaply made. So far black switches aren't exactly my cup of tea (from the mionix) and the widow's blues arent exactly my type due to the activation point. I wont even begin with the siig..
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I believe they are considered some of the best because the legends cant wear and they are thicker but they are still ABS.
They are PBT doubleshots if you're talking about Cherry Corp.
Signature plastic uses ABS
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Huh? No, Cherry Corp. doubleshots are ABS as well.
I've yet to see a PBT doubleshot keycap. Do they exist?
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Huh? No, Cherry Corp. doubleshots are ABS as well.
I've yet to see a PBT doubleshot keycap. Do they exist?
I could be mistaken by their space bar being PBT.
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Just get the topre and be done with it. Resale it if you don't like it, should still sell well at geekhack. Pbt keycaps that are sex. If you didn't like the feel of cherry blues I think the topre would be a good fit for you.
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Well lol price is affecting me a little bit . Either way im prob gonna end up getting a leopold at the end just to get the hype over with. btw still trying to find out the abs feel to keycaps.. let alone pbt... DAMN MY LOCATION
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I went from blues to browns and I have to say that though they are only 5g different, it feels like the world to me. I love browns and now I find that blues are too heavy. Since clears are even heavier than that I don't have any interest in trying them. Just my experience.
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I went from blues to browns and I have to say that though they are only 5g different, it feels like the world to me. I love browns and now I find that blues are too heavy. Since clears are even heavier than that I don't have any interest in trying them. Just my experience.
I use blue for typing and brown for gaming. Blue is my favorite switch to date. I have tried everything but topre.
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^my story exactly
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I'd look at WASD keyboards as most of their customers seem very happy with what they received. After all, at their prices, you could buy one for home use and another for work.
Splurging $300 on a keyboard for your first premium keyboard seems a little extreme to me.
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Cherry blues are heavier then my topre, after a day of typing on those for a day makes my fingers tired. I do enjoy the clicky noise though, maybe it's time to try the browns. I tried the clears for 15 mins and back into the box it went there was no way I was going to be typing on those lol.
Oh and topre is my favourite, I have yet to try browns or reds though, I think reds would be my next target ;)
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Not when most people end up buying filcos kbcs and others plus their topre. I'd figured I would cut the time with the others and go straight into the "best". But from what im interpretting others are saying is that I won't know which one I would like the most. So far the option I have is 109$ leopolds since theyre quality and cheap.
I would spend 250 on a topre in which I wouldn't need to spend on other keyboards just to sell them back and keep the "best one". <== thats what I got from most people
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Well. Most people buy more than one keyboard is not because they want the "best one." But because they get addicted after their first mech keyboard. You'll understand once you get your Leopold. You will just want more keyboards, like, all of em.
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ehh I see that but why would they consider the topre the best one when it's a type of rubberdome or is it the fact that its the priciest?
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I don't think it's agreed upon that topre is the best one, it REALLY depends on personal preference. Some people just prefer it over cherry mx and are willing to spend the extra money for it. I personally will buy a RealForce 45g uniform tenkeyless when I see one available and if I have the cash in hand, just to have it. But I will prioritize better cases for my Filcos, and possibly the limited R version before I think about topre.
I think the lightweight plastic used for FILCO keys compliment Cherry MX switches. Anything heavier would probably dull the tactility and fast action, but then I'm biased as always...
I like Filco stock key caps on blue. I think it feels and sounds sharper when I hit the click. But that's just me. Plus, it looks the best.
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How can you have the best when it comes down to personal preference.
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Well thats the thing I was gonna take a blind shot at a topre since most people used cherrys and then topres and cosidered the topre as their prioritized one. I was simply gonna see if right away I was gonna like the topre since ive seem many videos and reviews of topres. plus I could just sell it.
Btw hows the rabbit edition I was gonna get one but I was too late...
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most people used cherrys and then topres and cosidered the topre as their prioritized one.
I hope you see the problem with this statement.
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There are those who tried topre and ended up declaring cherry switch to be better.
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As in that people who have used cherrys later bought topres and ended up selling their cherry ones. Im simply using the high percentage of people that stick with topres as to cherry ones. If I end up not liking it then I could sell it and play the cherry game and try different switches but since leopolds are 109 I might as well start there.
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Topre is not a type of rubber dome!
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Topre is not a type of rubber dome!
It isn't. It's a capacitive switch. A rubber dome is, well, a rubber dome.
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It isn't. It's a capacitive switch. A rubber dome is, well, a rubber dome.
Topre is more complex than typical rubber dome, but it ultimately has a rubber dome as an important part of the topre switch design. it is not wrong calling topre to be a type of rubber dome lol.
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As in that people who have used cherrys later bought topres and ended up selling their cherry ones. Im simply using the high percentage of people that stick with topres as to cherry ones. If I end up not liking it then I could sell it and play the cherry game and try different switches but since leopolds are 109 I might as well start there.
OP,
except earlier on you complained about your location! The postage alone is likely to be a killer for a resale of anything you buy! Unless there are many mech enthusiasts in Georgia?.
i.e. SEE:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?22898-Keyboard-enthusiasts-by-location-...
Consider Delivery + insurance to be expensive from Georgia to EU or USA!
Seeing as you have read the entire forum, word for word, and concluded the superiority of the Topre!!, I wonder if you have come across KeyboardCo [a filco from KC will set you back 190$ (inc Delivery)], to compare with the 160$ you will pay at EK.
Anyway, It seems to me you are a very long way from pulling the trigger on a mech... because your thoughts are still very promiscuous! you need to make the decision, the decision should not be made for you by others! And like I said you should start with what the common consensus on GH suggests : which is to get a cherry MX board and try the brown switch first.
Good Luck in your endeavours sir!
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Topre is more complex than typical rubber dome, but it ultimately has a rubber dome as an important part of the topre switch design. it is not wrong calling topre to be a type of rubber dome lol.
I still think calling a Topre mechanical is a bit weird. The tactility comes from the rubber dome, and the actuation comes from the capacitive sensor. If anything, I prefer to call it an "electronic rubber dome" keyboard. Electronic actuation != mechanical actuation.
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Well the current one I'm gonna get is a Leopold from Ek since its 109 for paypal. I was looking at filcos in amazon but idk they start at 159 and look better than leopolds such as the otaku black majestouch 2 or even the camo majestouch 2 but its 50 bucks more than the leopolds.
All in all I just needed thoughts on if anyone had ever gotten a topre as their first kb and never bought another one again or at least for a while.
Well while there's not that many tech smart people here the few that are tend to know more into the quality of technology and actually take interest in well built peripherals.
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There ARE a lot of tech dumb people here. I blame the USA education system.
VERY VERY TRUE although.. Lets just say I've upgraded my computer from idiots who can't build their own pc..
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All in all I just needed thoughts on if anyone had ever gotten a topre as their first kb and never bought another one again or at least for a while.
As much as I wanted to give Topre boards a shot out of curiosity, I am totally happy with cherry brown. To me in the end, the cost of Topre keyboard doesn't really justify my curiosity until maybe I can try one out for free.
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If your willing to get used Topres it can actually get quite cheap, espesically if your willing to buy the OEM Topres. I paid about $90 + Shipping for my HE0100 and I just got a 103UB from the classifieds here for $190 Shipped.
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If only it was possible to try each type of keyboard there is before buying them...
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Ok but from what I hear is people buy Filcos,Duckys,Rose,Noppoo,KBC and even IBM's model M and they refer to the rf as the "best". It confuses me how you go on a shopping spree like that and they are still willing to buy a topre for 200+ and say it's the best.
How else are we going to justify all the money we just spent on one board if we don't call it the best?
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How else are we going to justify all the money we just spent on one board if we don't call it the best?
So is this keyboard the best since it's ~2k?
About 10 times better than a RF actually.
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/
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Since my "best" is topre, but I also have 2 filco's and a leopold, I'll throw in my 2 cents. I got a filco with brown switches first, I used it for about a month and realized it wasn't right for me, I didn't like the tactile keyswitch and they felt a little heavy to me. I did some more research and got a Filco with red switches and a variable weight realforce 86U. I loved both, way more than the brown filco. Only in my opinion, I would think if you like brown switches, you probably wouldn't like topre. I do think there's a similarity between the red & topre though, both have a smooth linear feel.
Side note, I also got a red leopold and compared to the red filco, it doesn't feel as solid. I think its the keycaps, they feel cheaper or something, the whole filco feels more solid and typing feels more solid...closer to the build quality of a realforce. This is all coming from someone that doesn't like loud clicky keyboards.
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So is this keyboard the best since it's ~2k?
About 10 times better than a RF actually.
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/
totally, wasn't that just what i said? (obviously sarcastic)
anyway, i like my topre. but i like blue switches more.
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totally, wasn't that just what i said? (obviously sarcastic)
anyway, i like my topre. but i like blue switches more.
Sarcasm awareness isn't one of my best attributes...
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we all have our flaws
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Since my "best" is topre, but I also have 2 filco's and a leopold, I'll throw in my 2 cents. I got a filco with brown switches first, I used it for about a month and realized it wasn't right for me, I didn't like the tactile keyswitch and they felt a little heavy to me. I did some more research and got a Filco with red switches and a variable weight realforce 86U. I loved both, way more than the brown filco. Only in my opinion, I would think if you like brown switches, you probably wouldn't like topre. I do think there's a similarity between the red & topre though, both have a smooth linear feel.
Side note, I also got a red leopold and compared to the red filco, it doesn't feel as solid. I think its the keycaps, they feel cheaper or something, the whole filco feels more solid and typing feels more solid...closer to the build quality of a realforce. This is all coming from someone that doesn't like loud clicky keyboards.
Again, I'm getting a leopold if I can't find a cheap topre
Leopolds = 110$ Filcos 140+$ and it's the cheapest way to find out if I like a certain switch.
Only switches I have tried myself are wannabe alps and blue switches from blackwidows
btw was the Filco a Linear R?
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There is a 103UB in the classified for $165
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Just get a plane ticket to Japan.
I just put this into the WW Shopping Wiki:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=de&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.topre.co.jp%2Fproducts%2Fcomp%2Fkey_shop.html&act=url
lol... only if I wasn't in school
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There is a 103UB in the classified for $165
I Pmed the guy.
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Again, I'm getting a leopold if I can't find a cheap topre
Leopolds = 110$ Filcos 140+$ and it's the cheapest way to find out if I like a certain switch.
Only switches I have tried myself are wannabe alps and blue switches from blackwidows
btw was the Filco a Linear R?
Yeah, it's good to order from Amazon to try out switches first. Just RMA it back after a few days or even longer (if needed). I would say that a red switch is similar to a 45g Topre the most. Both are just very light, and easy to use. The weight is just different, and the force gradient. So as you push down on the red switch you get a little more of springy feel (as you feel the spring in action). The Topre (as often people say) feel like typing on boobs with less bounce back force. They both are quite similar (but quite different) at 45g, but once you jump up to the 55g weighted version of the Topre they are much different. That 10 grams makes a lot of difference, and most people prefer lighter switches. So the red switch, and the 45g Topre is similar. Especially when you add some dampening pads to the red switches for a soft landing.
The Topre switches may appeal to you depending on how you like the their force gradient. The force at the top of the switch is the major difference between a red switch, and a 45g Topre board. Good luck!
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I've only had my 45g 87ub for three days, but to me it feels like some kind of weird (sexy) mix of reds, browns, and rubber domes. I really dig the popping feel that the keys give off. I had been thinking that this would be my only Topre board, but now I might have to spring for a 55g 87uw once my wallet recovers and they're not too hard to find.
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If I end up finding one it'd prob be a 86ub since the 87u is a little too much.
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I do recommend a leopold from ek tho, they dont allow returns but you can easily sell it if you dont like it.
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What im not sure about is the weight difference between clears and browns.
and btw I am heavily searching for topres at the same time :)
im giving myself until christmas to get a topre
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LOL dat mudflap.. prob has it's own type of texture.
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While choosing a favorite switch and keyboard is totally subjective - I feel that just trying out a keyboard for a short time never does the keyboard justice. I find that over the course of time different keyboards of mine jump in front as my favorites. Overall I really liked my Filco TKL with the Cherry Reds as my favorite. Even after I purchased the Silent Realforce (for a tidy sum) and the Poker with Reds (reasonably priced), I still felt that my Filco was my workhorse and overall favorite. But considering the price I paid for the Realforce, I decided to keep that one at work to use on a daily basis. After about a month, I tried switching off to my Filco and nothing doing - just wasn't even close to the buttery feel of the silent Realforce. Now the Poker is really neat and I love the small form factor and the feel and sound of the Cherry reds bouncing off the PBT board. It is great for straight typing especially on the iPad (which I'm doing now). However, if I'm doing some real work and need to use the arrow keys with a regular computer, I switch it out for a regular keyboard - for work just gotta have the arrow keys. Everything else about the Poker is super except for not having the arrow keys.
Really all is subjective when it comes to choosing your favorite keyboard and I'm really happy to have tried out quite a few before happily settling on my three "current" favorites.
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Yea I guess but I mean if I find a topre thats getting sold for less than it's standard price I might as well buy it since its gonna be economically smart and a gain in case I want to sell it again. But for now im looking for kbs in general topres being one of my priorities but also other kbs such as filcos and even brands I didnt know were good such as pokers and noppoos.
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Amen brother! Saying this for the last 3 years has made me unpopular with Keyboard Forum Site Moderators AROUND THE WORLD!
WTF?
(Attachment) 31606[/ATTACH]
Eh shouldnt you just get a tenkeyless? or you want that size?
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I dont get how people have such a hard time getting used to the arrow keys on the hhkb pro 2. It took me maybe a day to get used to it.
Personally I got black switches first and then topre and red switches. Now I'm back to black. You know what they say...
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84 posts and you haven't read my sig yet? I already posted I have a RealForce 87U.
well I know that you do, it just didnt make sense why you didnt just use your 87u but I see now.
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What does this have to do with women lol I just want a good keyboard due to my heavy gaming.
WOMEN on the other hand....psshh.. the least the better :) and as long as she likes it.
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I know but keyboards are tools for the computer savvy people. women are just women :)
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I don't think he has to worry about women with that sig.
Let me rephrase that:
Most expensive is not always best.
The sooner you learn this, you'll realize there is plenty of great, free porn out there. Or at least you'll be spending more on Kleenex and socks instead.
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Lol with my sig? what the **** does my sig have to do with me being able to get women..
my sig is just informative information since I tend to just copy and paste my setup rather than typing out what my specs are to people.
School is my occupation not ****ing women.
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This is a keyboard forum. Nobody cares about your specs.
Certainly not women.
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Well dont pay attention to it. Simple as that.
sigh... youre in geekhack theres no women here lol...
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sigh... youre in geekhack theres no women here lol...
You would be wrong.
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its geekhack... what? youre going to get some from some woman thats into keyboards..?
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No, I respect the women here.
I don't talk about keyboards with my GF, either. That's why I have a GF.
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I never said I didnt its just not the point of geekhack. I dont speak about computer stuff period with my friends let alone in dates.
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You would be wrong.
And you would be correct, Sir!
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What im not sure about is the weight difference between clears and browns.
The weight difference is BRUTAL. Clears sux. I hate Clears, **** Clears!
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The weight difference is BRUTAL. Clears sux. I hate Clears, **** Clears!
Well that's just, like, your opinion, man. I got some clears recently and I am absolutely loving them. I just happen to like a heavier feel to some things, I suppose. I can certainly see why a lot of people might dislike the clears. It's probably a bad starting point.
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He asked for opinions. I gave mine.
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Frankly, there was enough whateverism above your post that I really forgot what the context of the thread was, so fair enough.
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1) Topre 45g
2) Blues
3) Browns
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1) Topre 45g
2) Blues
3) Browns
Lol with a title like that kinda worries me..
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Wow, long time MsKeyboard.
Check out my drink post in my subforum (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?21923-Dear-Dude-How-do-YOU-make-a-White-Russian-AND-POST-Your-Fav-Drink-Recipe&p=429727&viewfull=1#post429727). I've been looking for a decent Montepulciano and it's driving me nuts.
I now live near a store with a tremendous wine selection. After I finish my current stock, about 10 bottles or so, I'll start trying out all the Montepulciani and posting reviews in your thread.