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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: chew on Thu, 17 November 2011, 06:32:53
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Every Filco I've owned has rang like a tuning fork. I'm guessing this is just the springs hitting the metal board. Are all Filcos like this, or is this some sort of manufacture defect? I'm pretty sure it's different from pinging, because I've had a couple of my keys ping.
Sorry for another one of these threads...
EDIT: Found a sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N54eusgrtoM
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Found a sample:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N54eusgrtoM
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Oh no here we go again! Don't expect this thread to do anything other than go downhill...
No, it's not the same. They all ping a bit, but ringing would IMO be a flaw. Many don't believe ringing exists, since no one has posted a recording of it, but that certainly doesn't mean that it doesn't exist (and it is certainly feasible).
I think it does exist, but is pretty rare... so I'm sceptical that you've managed to draw the short straw on every Filco you've owned :-)
Any chance you could make a recording of it?
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I posted a video in the edit. That is very similar to what I experience. I've put my keyboard on a couple of mousemats to dampen the sound. I was thinking of getting another Filco from keyboardco for Christmas and was wondering if all Filcos have this problem.
I can probably make my own recording if need be.
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That's not a problem, it's usual behavior. Remember that there are 104 springs in there!
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Yeah, I understand. I was just listening to some Filco videos on YT and noticed that not all Filcos rang like mine.
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I think Filco Zero uses Fukka or XM switches. I was assuming yours were Cherries - wrongly? Alps types are generally noisier anyway, but also seem to suffer more from ringing (after the initial click-clack-ping). I'm not sure I'd call it a flaw on the Alps boards, more just the nature of those switches (maybe down to how well they fit to the plate, I dunno). If yours are Cherries, then yeah, a recording would be good :-)
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JBert is in the sceptic camp, btw. There will be many posts along those lines.
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Yeah, cherry blues. I'll get a recording up soon.
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here's a sample recording. i used my phone so obviously the quality is terrible but it still conveys the issue fine. some keys may sound like i am hammering them down, but i'm not. lately i've put the keyboard on a stack of 3 mousepads.
http://www.mediafire.com/?in86s3as26nn875
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Does that mean you listened to my sound sample and think I have a genuine problem or are you just saying that for comedic effect?
Oh wait... it's ripster I'm talking to.
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Alright, so is there a difference between rings and pings? :D
Should I try my luck with a third keyboard? Maybe Keyboardco will have mercy on me this time...
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My Model M pings less than that Filco (due to careful bolt mod and new springs which are less prone to pinging than originals). Although you wouldn't like to listen to '86 Model M with it's original springs. The pinging sounds it makes while typing are almost on pair with my Model F Terminal.
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JBert is in the sceptic camp, btw. There will be many posts along those lines.
The video had the following in its comments: It rings after a keystroke on any key. It also rings if I set it down on the desk or if I brush my hand across the key caps.
If all keys produce a consistent sound and we know that there are springs in there which can reverberate, why on earth would you assume that keyboard is faulty? Different brands might alter the final sound, but it's just the sound of the springs.
@chew: There is certainly some spring reverberation going on, my Cherry keyboards do the same.
If it annoys, you might want to stop buying Cherry keyboards and buy some rubber dome or Topres instead...
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Like I said, I've seen and heard keyboards that do not make this noise. Das and other Filcos.
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The video had the following in its comments: If all keys produce a consistent sound and we know that there are springs in there which can reverberate, why on earth would you assume that keyboard is faulty? Different brands might alter the final sound, but it's just the sound of the springs.
I don't assume anything. In particular, I don't assume that the first explanation I think of is the correct one, however obvious it might seem. That's the sort of thinking that left us believing that the Sun went round the Earth for so long.
There's a metal plate... plates can ring... I won't be continuing this discussion further because it's all been said before. Somewhere buried in the morass of ping trolling there were some sensible inquisitive posts, but good luck finding them.
@chew: There is certainly some spring reverberation going on, my Cherry keyboards do the same.
If it annoys, you might want to stop buying Cherry keyboards and buy some rubber dome or Topres instead...
... or a PCB mounted Cherry 'board.
Chew, TBH that doesn't sound too bad. I saw a video of an old Alps board that rang into tomorrow, that's more what I'd call faulty if it occurred on a modern plate-mounted Cherry 'board. I'll link to it later if I can find it again.
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All mechanical keyboards pings/rings if you look for it. If you can't get past it or find one that doesn't ping, tough luck.
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Every Filco I've owned has rang like a tuning fork. I'm guessing this is just the springs hitting the metal board. Are all Filcos like this, or is this some sort of manufacture defect? I'm pretty sure it's different from pinging, because I've had a couple of my keys ping.
Sorry for another one of these threads...
EDIT: Found a sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N54eusgrtoM
No, they are not all like this. I had one with browns that rang, but my current filcos with reds and ergo clears do not ring. I also owned one with blues that did not ring.
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I have the same problem.
Also, I have a weird issue with my Filco. After I type on it for a while, and leave it sit free for ~10 mins. There will be a *pop* sound coming from the keyboard (Nothing is touching it). But those are just sounds. Other than that, there' re no problem with it.
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A lot of people have experienced this issue and are continuing to.
NOT the mcgurk effect.
There will be a *pop* sound coming from the keyboard (Nothing is touching it).
My Filco with reds does the same thing...not sure why. It doesn't bother me too much though...
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I have this on a few boards, and on others it's minimal, so I think it varies from board to board. For example I have two Leopold TKL's, one with blue's and one with browns. The one with blues has very minimal ping, but the one with browns has some serious ping ... it's more noticeable on some keys than others (which also could have a lot to do with how I release the keys). For example I get a pretty loud ring when I release the alt key (technically it's on a mac and it's the command key, but it's the one just to the left of my spacebar). Then there's my Matias Tactile Pro 3 ... that one pings like no tomorrow (and it's not even cherry mx based but ALPS). It pings so loudly and so long that if you are typing very quickly it builds up to an almost steady hum. That one is so annoying to me that I don't use the board much anymore. I'm getting used to it on the newer TKL with browns as I only really hear it when I'm releasing the command key. On some boards it seems like it's a lot like those old Fender reverb tanks ;)
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My first gen majestouch and 2nd gen do sound different and they are both browns. But I wouldn't say it sounded bad and definitely not a loud ping. I don't hear anything that would cause me to return the board.
Now my Ducky with the Green alps switches has a loud ping; but a totally different switch.
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McRip? Never heard of it.
Sounds like FUD.
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The Orange Text indicates a link.
Anyway I'm enjoying the responses the OP is getting at Deskthority.net. (http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1488)
Two in a row? That's EXACTLY like Penpoint (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18731-A-sad-day-in-Filco-Ninja-Land).
What did Penpoint end up doing? RMA the two keyboards? Honestly, I'm thinking getting another Filco and hope I get lucky. It's too bad sellers don't take this issue more seriously.
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penpoints understandably got bored of the trolling (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18739-Have-you-experienced-the-Filco-quot-ping-quot-noise&p=376867&viewfull=1#post376867).
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Penpoint ended up closing the thread.
Not sure what happened.
He sure got mad though.
He never came back since. Poor thing. Hope he eventually found some peace with the ping.
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it's a filco, it pings, it's a defect. Ppl who can't hear it, just do "NOT" have the ability to hear that upper (or lower) end of the hearing spectrum, don't worry just means that you're old.
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it's a filco, it pings, it's a defect. Ppl who can't hear it, just do "NOT" have the ability to hear that upper (or lower) end of the hearing spectrum, don't worry just means that you're old.
I can hear it from my non-filco board if I tune in for the sound and I have used it for over 2 years without noticing it until all of a sudden people keep bringing it up.
The sound just doesn't bother me.
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Pinging is NOT the same as ringing. Ripster would probably be aware of that if he was half the expert he claims to be.
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This is my impression:
Pinging = sound from resonance that occurs in a switch's
Ringing = sound from resonance that occurs in keyboard plate, PCB and/or perhaps even the case.
... and I think that it can sometimes be very difficult to hear if the sound is ringing or pinging.
I think that it could even be both.
On one keyboard, the ping of a switch could cause ring in the plate, while on another keyboard, a switch that does not ping could cause resonance in the plate, and on a third keyboard a switch could ping but do not normally cause ringing.
Apparently, one switch could cause ringing while another does not. Switches could also ping and ring differently, depending on how you type.
Buckling spring keyboards ping clearly, but they don't ring.
Most of my boards with PCB-mounted Cherry MX blacks ping.. or ring (I don't know which!) when I type normally. Another board with plate-mounted Cherry MX blacks rings/pings loudly, while yet another does not. My Cherry MX Blue, Brown and Clear boards are very silent.