geekhack
geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: jkercado on Fri, 02 December 2011, 20:51:20
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I mean, we spend so many hours pounding keys, I find caring about keyboards and how they feel and function is a very important thing in our daily lives, and no, I'm not exaggerating.
Let me introduce myself...My name is Jose but most people call me Kerc. About a year ago I realized that, hell, most OEM keyboards suck pretty badly. As a full-time software developer for 20 years, I kinda figured out that kinda late, but, better late than never, huh? Anyway, that got me searching about keyboards, and got me to remember old IBM clicky keyboards. So I searched until I got myself a nice Lexmark Model M in excellent condition. It became my daily office keyboard. I kinda left it at that, but recently I decided to look for decent keyboards for home.
There were two requirements: 1) Quiet, 2) Cheap (hey, I have two kids!). So I started searching on the Web for good rubber keyboards, and lo and behold, that brought me here. I've lurked unregistered for quite a while, but decided to register today. Seems a pretty nice community here.
Since reading stuff here, I've found a KeyTronic 3601 and a Dell QuietKey, both for $2 each at the Goodwill near my house, which has become my go-to place for old stuff, because they have a LOT of computer stuff.
I think I've found myself a new hobby with all this keyboard brouhaha. It's fun in a nerdy way--I love it. And going back to my opening statement, caring for keyboards is not only fun, it's actually useful and can indeed increase productivity and make my coding hours more pleasant.
Thanks for all the useful info, guys!
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Welcome to GeekHack Kerc!
I'm sure many people have their theories. Personally I think that folks who don't type a lot mostly don't care about the keyboard they're using.
Most folks on this forum are programmers. Some are writers.
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It's a no brainer for me. I recently made the jump, myself, but it was because I needed to. I work as a system admin for my day job, so I'm constantly typing. I also write a lot when I'm off work, so it just makes sense for me to have a mechanical keyboard. Most of my friends think I'm insane for spending $159 on a keyboard too. Just wait until I buy the second one...
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It's a no brainer for me. I recently made the jump, myself, but it was because I needed to. I work as a system admin for my day job, so I'm constantly typing. I also write a lot when I'm off work, so it just makes sense for me to have a mechanical keyboard. Most of my friends think I'm insane for spending $159 on a keyboard too. Just wait until I buy the second one...
If your friends think that you are insane for spending $159 usd I guess some of the guys around here are 100 times more insane
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You talking to me? You talking to me?
Welcome to geekhack, guys!
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Generaly caring about anything is odd, atleast there is someone who thinks so, just name anything.
Still, quality keyboards are one thing which last and development is slow and they age well for computer tech. Just think about those 20 year old boards, still usable. What other part is there? Maybe optical mouses are good, but other than keyboard they all get old. So investment isn't so big, also pleasure is great...
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remember to tell your friends/familly that you paid only 20 bucks
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remember to tell your friends/familly that you paid only 20 bucks
Good one! :D
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Goodwill stores in the Atlanta area do not sell computer gear, a manager there told me that the computer stores pressured them to stop, presumably so that they would not create "competition"
The early Dell Quiet Keys with the blue rubber domes, and the IBM 8923s, if they are fresh, are about as good as you can get for cheap old rubber domes. Compaq 2800s are also very good if you like "media" keys.
Blasphemy to mention them at all on this forum, of course.
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People don't really see it strange when they hear it from me, but that's because I obsess over computers so much that anybody who knows me knows that I'm picky about my stuff and care about my computer more than most. They might not understand me, but they see it as plausible that I'd be like this about keyboards.
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if ppl ate mcdee's all their lives from 3years old to 33years old they'd think, damn this is a good burger, they never even thought to try good fast food burger joints like 5guys/inandout, sure they've had a burger king or wendy's and thought... it's about the same, ugh whats the difference.
now replace mcdees with dell quietkey, and burger king with logitech and wendy's with hp oem
and 5 guys with cherry
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Goodwill stores in the Atlanta area do not sell computer gear, a manager there told me that the computer stores pressured them to stop, presumably so that they would not create "competition"
The early Dell Quiet Keys with the blue rubber domes, and the IBM 8923s, if they are fresh, are about as good as you can get for cheap old rubber domes. Compaq 2800s are also very good if you like "media" keys.
Blasphemy to mention them at all on this forum, of course.
I've popped into a few thrift stores here and there over the last year or two between San Francisco and Monterey, and usually they have nothing or a couple Logitech keyboards with a few keys missing. Never have found anything that wasn't broken or absolutely trashed :(
I have an IBM KPD-8923-Black with an integrated trackpoint (for sale) and it's a very nice rubber dome. Considering how well it feels, that tells me there can be a few rubbers that do a very decent job. I've not tried the Dell you mention...does it feel the same as the 8923?
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I think its just that most people aren't that focused on some things in detail. There is an interesting theory that I have come across lately and I shall post on a separate thread - I have often wondered what about this forum was so comfortable for me when I first stumbled upon it. I thought that some of the results from the personality type thread might have shed some light, but less than I had hoped in actuality.
Its kinda odd because its a more personal interface than they expect it would have to be to make such a big deal about it. And most people don't necessarily do as much actual typing as writers and coders. In a way, before the net interlinked the whole world electronically, it was connected primarily by telephone and carried with that the expense of per mile/per minute charges. People who had to learn to type at all were admin assistants mostly or transcribers or programmers. Its actually pretty much email that everyone needs a keyboard for now, but no one has really made the adjustment of the idea yet to mainstream of how important that is. In a way we are behind the curve of the initial technology if we are just paying attention to it now, but we are probably pretty far ahead of the bell curve of the whole of the computer using population at this time. I predict, based on that, at some point that there will a renewed focus on improving keyboard tech to where it is not just the thing that comes with the computer anymore, because even if the whole touch pad thing is dominant, there still needs to be a way to get the words there, and voice recognition is too noisy for everyone to do it at once.
In sum, I think its primarily because, unfortunately, most people are just kinda stupid and haven't seen that it is a significant thing because they simply don't think about it.
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People not caring about anything...that would bother me.
Besides, "most" people are in that 97% demographic of average intelligence (to steadily declining to below average due to Cultural Marxism). Few are in that "mensa" range like most of us probably are. ;)
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I wonder what the "average" number of words or characters are typed per day by people? I suppose that someone doing a blue collar job would have significantly less interest in keyboards than someone who spends their whole day in front of one, but I wonder if you don't actually use one for work or a main part of the day if it would even be significant enought to consider a keyboard as anything more than you would consider the ergonomic niceties afforded by the touch tone keypad on your phone? Then again, phones are now moving towards having little teeny impossibly inefficient to use for typing keyboards on them too.
Maybe we're just weird.
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Few are in that "mensa" range like most of us probably are. ;)
Yeah right, ha ha.
Anyway, most people don't care because they have no real reason to. Not everyone is typing relentlessly all day; plenty people don't use their computers much, or just use them for Facebook, Youtube and eBay. It's like anything else in the world, some people like to spend a lot of money on their car, others don't care as long as it gets them to and from work and the supermarket. It's not that people are stupid or ignorant as the reason that they don't care, it's because people have different priorities and distractions in life. Personally, I'm not a coder or a writer, I'm just a bit of a weirdo with my things and like them to be of a reasonable quality, that goes for everything from my keyboard to my mattress, kitchen counters, clothes, car, furniture, whatever.
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That sig is way too big.
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Ask the administrator to change the size limit then.
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Most programmers I know ARE kinda odd. Especially the Linux ones.
I'm a Microsoft .NET developer. *whew* I'm saaaaaaaafe!
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The stranger thing is when I hear programmers saying they couldn't care less. I mean...DUDE, you bang keys all day, yet you don't care?
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Most of them just don't even know that there is something better to be had. I suppose I never would have ended up here except for the fact that I recently realized how much better a typist I used to be in high school (that was in the 80's - back on the model F and first M's that clacked away in the lab like nobody's business) and finally discovered that the reason for my decline in WPM and accuracy was due to the decreased excellence of the the keyboards today. Hence my obsession was born. Otherwise I would have been totally none the wiser at all - just would have kept trudging on clueless as to the alternative. Would NEVER have occurred to me had I not had the previous experience and known something different...
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... I recently realized how much better a typist I used to be in high school ... and finally discovered that the reason for my decline in WPM and accuracy was due to the decreased excellence of the the keyboards today. Hence my obsession was born. Otherwise I would have been totally none the wiser at all - just would have kept trudging on clueless as to the alternative. Would NEVER have occurred to me had I not had the previous experience and known something different...
Word. I tried to express something similar upon my entry here, but it wasn't that clearly stated.
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I knew of nice keyboards for a long time, I just never had the money/pleasure to pick one up. Though when I was showing off my keyboard, I did talk to someone who said he didn't even know that high end keyboards existed... and then said he wished he didn't see them cause now he wants one.
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Yes, me too but I learned on a typewriter so not only was I a lot faster, I was a lot more accurate as well. The back space key has made me very sloppy.
Most of them just don't even know that there is something better to be had. I suppose I never would have ended up here except for the fact that I recently realized how much better a typist I used to be in high school (that was in the 80's - back on the model F and first M's that clacked away in the lab like nobody's business) and finally discovered that the reason for my decline in WPM and accuracy was due to the decreased excellence of the the keyboards today. Hence my obsession was born. Otherwise I would have been totally none the wiser at all - just would have kept trudging on clueless as to the alternative. Would NEVER have occurred to me had I not had the previous experience and known something different...
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True dat. The option to edit on the fly makes me a little less strict about getting it right on the first try. But I do use it a lot less on a proper board.
Personally I think they ought to calculate WPM typed only after the whole test document completes. If you get fast enough to correct as you go, isn't it the average that counts and only the number of errors that REMAIN in the document when its done that matter?
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There is a whole mindset of "throw it down as fast as you can, and correct it all later" that has completely poisoned the CAD universe.
It makes me cry to even think about how wrongly the direction of that discipline has moved ....
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OP, since you said it yourself that this whole keyboard thing is a bit nerdy, that should explain the question for you already. But as long as you are here, we would all think you are cool ：D
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I believe personal priority is the main reason why people care or don't care.
For me, I always believe there will be form of advancement over time.
True story:
After coming out from the Army, I bought a Razer Arctosa thinking it would be better since it's for gamers but soon had a feeling there has to be something better than this keyboard considering that I was already using a rubber dome before serving the Army. Went to get the G15, found out it was worst and later discovered mechanical keyboards from Hardocp which let to Geekhack. The price was a shocker at that time but I took the plunge and loved it. Now I own more than 10 mech board and the number is still growing.
Geekhack is a terrible place, it exposes you to the better things in life and lead you to spending your hard-earned money but deep-down you know it's worth it.
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I think it's because some people, like my girlfriend and mom, think that "it works, leave it alone!" My mother even refuses to try them at work... I pity her and her mirror of a spacebar...My mech boards often bring me to take them apart... Thus, they do not care for it.
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It's not odd at all especially when you use keyboards on a daily basis for your job...
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Lol at most geekhackers being at Mensa-level intelligence, or intelligence having something to do with how much time/money one puts into keyboard choice.
There are a million hobbies to spend your time on. I drive my Corolla evey day but I don't give a damn about cars, as long as mine works.
Frankly I'm here because I'm obsessive about workflow. I want the nicest-feeling, tricked-outest keyboard I can get. Most of the other programmers I work with are primarily concerned with ergonomics rather than key switch feel, if they've thought about keyboards at all. Fortunately I work for a company that will provide you a Kinesis if you ask for it, and many of us use them without any notion of what a mechanical keyboard is.
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Besides, "most" people are in that 97% demographic of average intelligence (to steadily declining to below average due to Cultural Marxism). Few are in that "mensa" range like most of us probably are. ;)
Didn't notice the ;) last night at 4 AM, he might have been joking...
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I just like the idea of it, and having got one, just like the feel and look of it.
I'm just a student, don't type a crazy amount, nor do I play a crazy amount, but I'm happy to spend my money on a cool keyboard, otherwise I'd just get another pointless gpu upgrade or something when I don't need one, that's how I justify it to myself :P
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I just like the idea of it, and having got one, just like the feel and look of it.
I'm just a student, don't type a crazy amount, nor do I play a crazy amount, but I'm happy to spend my money on a cool keyboard, otherwise I'd just get another pointless gpu upgrade or something when I don't need one, that's how I justify it to myself :P
I could put 150€ in GPU get better next year for 100€ and throw it away in 5, or I could put same money in keyboard and use it for next 10 years and still likely sell it for 50€...