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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 07 December 2011, 00:27:20
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i'm thinking of buying a leopold tenkeyless otaku since the filco version of it is nowhere to be found. what i'm afraid of is that the leopold might have a "wobble" to the key caps. can anyone with a leopold comment on how much of a wobble they keys on the leopold has? i read the das vs filco article and if i remember correctly, das has this small loose wobble, whereas the filco had none. since the leopold is comparable to the filco, i want to make sure it doesn't have this "flaw" if i'm going to get it as an alternative to the filco.
btw, i'm still a total newb to mechanicals and have not gotten the chance to play with a filco or leopold. but i read enough to narrow my choice down to filco if i can find one new, or just settle with a leopold.
EDIT: 12/09/11 uploaded this video to show what i'm referring to:
[video=youtube;BAuCYAafu5g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAuCYAafu5g[/video]
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ok to point out exactly where i got this, here is a quote with a link to the small review:
Build Quality:
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I believe the Filco has the edge, by a fairly decent margin, in this department. The keyboard feels tighter, more solid and the keys don't have as much wobble. The extending feet on the bottom seem to be of higher quality as well.
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Key Feel:
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As pointed out by someone else, the blue cherries feel extremely similar on both of these keyboards. Again though, I must give the edge to the Filco. The keystrokes feel more precise and clean than the DAS Pro, which may be because of less key wobble.
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EDIT: for some reason the forum doesn't allow me to post a link to the original review that i found those quotes. maybe because i just registered? :noidea:
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I have a leopold and it's fine. I can't really think of any build quality issue to say it's not worth buying over the other especially if it's considerably cheaper. If you're heart is set on a filco then you can just buy a regular one and buy blank key caps.
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what wobble? I own one... but i am not entirely sure what you mean...
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I have 3 Leopolds and none of them wobble.
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The keystems on all my cherry keyboards wobble, and this seems more for those with taller keycaps, however this is not really an issue in practise.
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This honestly sounds like if it's a problem (and I would propose that it is not), it's an issue with the Cherry switches, and not the keyboard's build quality.
Also, I have two Leopolds that don't wobble. One with blues, one with clears.
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Wobble like you're able to move it a bit back, forth and to the side?
Every cherry keyboard keycaps does that. There's no single key that stays solidly straight up when force is applied to one of its side.
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Like everyone said... first time I have heard that some describe keycaps to "Wobble" maybe ping but not wobble. I have 4 leos and none of keycaps on them wobble.
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I had a Filco board and now I got myself a Leopold. I like the build quality of Leopold more.
Both keyboard have a very slight wobble on the keys which I wouldn't really call wobble it just how the switches are.
Here is my opinion on Filco vs Leopold
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?24367-Budget-tenkeyless-what-say-you-Leopold-vs-PLU-ML87&p=459972#post459972
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2 Leopolds, 0 wobble.
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It doesn't need an engineer mind to notice that cherry switch will make your keycaps wobble a little bit more than Buckling Spring or Topre as the keycap is mounted on quite thin stem which is not held that tightly by the switch casing. That's the main reason I prefer BS over Cherry, otherwise they're awesome switch.
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All keyboard keys "wobble" to some degree, but you wont find it in any significant degree in any of the high end brands.
If any of you want to know what he is talking about, try a Chicony with cherries or fake cherries, feels incredibly cheap. I would assume any keyboard that is so cheap, as to use fake cherries, have this problem (someone weigh in from a Rappoo v7?).
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someone weigh in from a Rappoo v7?
That Rappoo I had was ok and to be honest, I didn't feel any key wobbling. The only problem was one of the keys didn't register when I press and this was a brand new board right out of the box. Qtan was nice enough to let me return it.
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I have been using my Leopold for a few days. I researched as much as I could before buying this keyboard and I can't say that I ever read anything about wobbling keys. And I definitely haven't noticed any key wobble on my own Leopold.
That being said I have noticed a slight squeak, or ping if you will, when depressing the space bar ( inb4 **** storm ). But I haven't lubed this bad boy up yet so that may just be what it needs.
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If you only compare Cherry keyboard to rubber dome you won't notice the wobble as it's a bit less than rubber dome dell or whatever, but if you try to wobble some buckling spring and then cherry, you will notice the issue.
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ok i finally uploaded a video of this wobble i was talking about. "wobble" is pretty subjective, so this video will better show how much it moves. can you guys tell me if your leopold or filco has the same amount of wobble?
[video=youtube;BAuCYAafu5g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAuCYAafu5g[/video]
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After seeing that video I think I should be getting rid of all my mech boards, they are def. defective! OMG!!
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Ah that is nothing to worry about, that is the key switch wobble from being a movable part. After typing on it you will notice that it does not affect typing at all and that is part of what makes it easier to remove keycaps with a keycap remover. Otherwise it would feel very unnerving trying to make sure you aren't about to snap the keystem while removing each keycap. Enjoy your Leopold, it will serve you well.
If you hear someone talking about wobble the are usually referring to unnatural wiggling of stabilized keys which should evenly press no matter where on the key you are trying to depress it.
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Hahahahaha, I thought this was something else. Every keyboard has this.
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ok i finally uploaded a video of this wobble i was talking about....
You have nothing to worry about, the video just ilustrates a very normal situation. The fact of the matter is the vast majority boards exhibit this characteristic to some degree or another. Just as an interesting observation many rubber domes are louder when they wiggle than mechanical keyboards. By the way the "wobble/wiggle" is commonly refered to as "Play".
Usually the tighter the switch (less play) the more friction and/or binding is present (especially in off center key presses).
One thing to take note of is the height of the keycap plays a part in the amount of actual lateral movement that the key exhibits. The taller the key the larger the arc or distance traveled per wiggle on it's respective axis.
All is good and you will probably just fall in love the with a mechanical keyboard. Well, it's more likely you will eventually just be a keyboard snob. =P
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ok i finally uploaded a video of this wobble i was talking about....
You have nothing to worry about, the video just ilustrates a very normal situation. The fact of the matter is the vast majority boards exhibit this characteristic to some degree or another. Just as an interesting observation, many rubber domes are louder when they wiggle than mechanical keyboards. By the way the "wobble/wiggle" is commonly refered to as "Play".
Usually the tighter the switch (less play) the more friction and/or binding is present (especially in off center key presses).
One thing to take note of is the height of the keycap plays a part in the amount of actual lateral movement that the key exhibits. The taller the key the larger the arc or distance traveled per wiggle on it's respective axis (or pivot if you prefer).
All is good and you will probably just fall in love the with a mechanical keyboard. Well, it's more likely you will eventually just be a keyboard snob. =P
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ok i finally uploaded a video of this wobble i was talking about. "wobble" is pretty subjective, so this video will better show how much it moves. can you guys tell me if your leopold or filco has the same amount of wobble?
[video=youtube;BAuCYAafu5g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAuCYAafu5g[/video]
Yes that's one of reasons I don't like cherries. Feeling cheap. And even if keyboard feels nice and sturdy when it's brand new, after couple years of constant use you see it's not really that well made. See my filco example.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]34443[/ATTACH]
And please note it's not dirty at all. It's just worn out after using for about a year around 8 hours a day. Coding, not slacking.
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How do you get blemishes on such weird places in the keyboard? The space above the arrow keys. The space between esc and Fn. Seems weird that you'd have enough activities around those crevasses to give them such shiny surfaces.
I can't help but notice your extremely negative attitude toward cherry MX keyboards in your posts. What gives?
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I used those places to rest my fingers before hitting ESC or while playing around arrow keys.
And don't get me wrong. I'm not negative against Cherries. I did like how Browns felt and I do like my G80 with Blues in the office but I can't say it's a perfect switch as many say. I can clearly see the downsides of it. And even though I sometimes glorify Buckling Springs I see downsides of those just as well. Model Ms get mushy and their rivets fall off so easily even NIB keyboards are delivered with missing rivets, and while Unicomps feel awesome their quality control sucks.
Still I prefer BS boards (Model Ms after bolt mod and with new springs and Unicomp keyboards) because they feel solid and are definitely more durable than lets say Filco. The oldest Model M I have is from April 1986 and it hardly looks used and I know it was very heavily used in the past.
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I'd give it to you for some keyboard science research / experiments over heavily used ABS keyboard but it's been traded for Model M.
To be honest I don't care about keycaps as they can be replaced easily, even to PBT, but what happens to casing is actually depressing. Next time I'm in the office (probably next year) I'll make a pic of my friend's G80 - it's got very shiny, but he uses it for much longer than i used filco, I think it's something around 5 years and he also programs in perl all day long.
Oh and my office G80 which was used regularly for around a year and for last years it's used only couple days in a month looks much better, only a bit of shine on keycaps, but casing is great. I think it has to be something with a texture of plastic. Cherry and IBM keyboards have a rough surface, Filco is a velvet smooth.
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I recently acquired a Leopold Otaku with MX Blues, and the only issues I have are a squeaky right shift key and the caps lock key pings. I think I can fix the squeak with lube and I don't hit the caps lock key often enough to worry about the pinging, so overall, I'm happy.