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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: jkercado on Thu, 15 December 2011, 12:34:39

Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: jkercado on Thu, 15 December 2011, 12:34:39
Got this yesterday at a local computer repair/parts shop. Thrown among all the old keyboard there it was. I didn't even know what it was, but the clicking of its keys was a telltale sign for sure. Got it for $1.99. Not bad at all. Took it home, gave it a really good cleanup (it was disgustingly dirty), assembled it back together, and it wasn't working properly! Dadgummit...After much thinking, I thought that maybe it's not 100% compatible with the blue cube I have connected to my laptop, so I took it to the office to see if it would work with my PC there, using a real PS/2 connector.

Well, it works, and I'm typing on it now!

I'm pretty happy with it, makes it a nice alternative for the office, where my trusty IBM Model M was starting to distract people. This keyboard is big, robust, and pretty much silent, but the keys have a very satisfying soft clicking action. There's something about it that begs typing on it. I've been coding with it all morning and I think it just won its place in the office...That'll give me time to order a new cable for my Model M and get it up to shape. I do have to get used a bit to the softer action on the keys and avoid slamming them, but I've been getting better at that as the day progreses. The whole device has a low profile, even the keys are kinda "sunken" into the case a bit, helps for good hand positioning.

Apparently there's not much info about these keyboards...Seem to be rare birds. Here's some pics:

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/jkercado/temporary-8.jpg)

Most keys are shiny!

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/jkercado/temporary-9.jpg)
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: Clickey on Thu, 15 December 2011, 14:02:03
Nice find. Those NEC switches are ALPS-like but feel and sound more like cherry blues. One of my favorites.
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: czarek on Thu, 15 December 2011, 14:43:30
Looks awesome! Are keys really that shiny? If so, aren't your fingers slipping when you type on it?
If it feels like Cherry Blue but doesn't wobble as much (Alps feels more solid in this regard) it may actually be extremely nice switch.
Is it clicky like blues? Or more quiet mechanic contact click like in complicated Black Alps?
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: jkercado on Thu, 15 December 2011, 15:31:08
Quote from: czarek;471558
Looks awesome! Are keys really that shiny? If so, aren't your fingers slipping when you type on it?
If it feels like Cherry Blue but doesn't wobble as much (Alps feels more solid in this regard) it may actually be extremely nice switch.
Is it clicky like blues? Or more quiet mechanic contact click like in complicated Black Alps?

Yep, they're pretty shiny. I don't get any slippage; then again, I'm not the world's fastest typist, plus I'm mostly conding, so it's more of a kind of precise input on the keyboard (at least in my case). The keys don't wobble much at all, especially nice considering this baby must be pretty old. The switches are clicky like blues, but not as loud. It's like blues with the volume set at 4, if you get what I mean.

Quote from: ripster;471567
Got any nickels?

Yeah, man. I'm late. I got this one, a Dell AT101W, and on the way home an IBM M4-1, a Cherry G84-4001, and a Genius i200! :becky:
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: fossala on Thu, 15 December 2011, 15:35:50
He meant to weigh the switches (accutation force)
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: jkercado on Thu, 15 December 2011, 15:54:42
Quote from: fossala;471591
He meant to weigh the switches (accutation force)

I know...I'm late getting the nickels, that's what I meant. Got a lot of incoming keyboards to test!
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: Clickey on Thu, 15 December 2011, 18:09:53
Quote from: czarek;471558
Looks awesome! Are keys really that shiny? If so, aren't your fingers slipping when you type on it?
If it feels like Cherry Blue but doesn't wobble as much (Alps feels more solid in this regard) it may actually be extremely nice switch.
Is it clicky like blues? Or more quiet mechanic contact click like in complicated Black Alps?


The keycaps are super high quality doubleshots (best ALPS-type keys I have ever seen), and the shiny ones feel quite silky as opposed to the usual slippery plastic feel. It both feels and sounds more solid than a cherry blue, and the actuation is much smoother. They are made in Japan, which explains the quality. Also has NKRO.
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: jkercado on Thu, 15 December 2011, 20:11:17
Nope, not compatible. I have a Dell AT101W to compare with. The NEC switches are wider and narrower..."flatter", so to speak. Plus they're not as hard to remove as the ALPS. I'll take a pic tomorrow; it's in the office while my Model M takes its break.
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: czarek on Fri, 16 December 2011, 02:57:55
Quote from: Clickey;471666
The keycaps are super high quality doubleshots (best ALPS-type keys I have ever seen), and the shiny ones feel quite silky as opposed to the usual slippery plastic feel. It both feels and sounds more solid than a cherry blue, and the actuation is much smoother. They are made in Japan, which explains the quality. Also has NKRO.

Oh man, where can I get it?
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 17 December 2011, 20:45:48
Quote from: ripster;471772
Something like this.  F, S, D please with F up.
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=21736&d=1310690463 )


The nickles test is here: RipOmeter (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6189).
Man that is F'd up.
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: poxeclipse on Sun, 19 February 2012, 07:08:21
I got one 2 weeks ago, for CAD $20. Haven't been used much, looks like brand new. I found it on a local classifieds, with a complete computer set NEC Powermate SX/i20: computer, keyboard, mouse, monitor. Everything is now in the attic, but the keyboard, which is on my favourite  list, I'm using it at work. I didn't even clean it.
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: keebler64 on Fri, 13 April 2012, 16:30:56
Add another NEC Saved from the Trash Heap.

Found this sitting in our "Abyss" Pile. Basically a lot of stuff in our inventory we can't sell, but still have on the books.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/a94d9570.jpg)

Cleaned it up, and typing on it now as I write this... I'm in bliss compared to the POS Logitech you see in the back ground.

Now, if only I could resurrect my favorite LiteON SK-6000 with this matrix of awesomeness.

(Said picture of SK6000, started life as a stock AT Keyboard in 1994, Converted to PS2 in 1999, then died a horrible death due to corrosive cat pee in 2007, I still have it, and will restore it using most likely a teensy or dedicated controller.)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/keyboard.jpg)
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: keebler64 on Mon, 23 April 2012, 10:20:33
After using it on and off for a week, I'm tempted to mod it, but I'd probably be crucified. The tactile and action is very smooth, but it's massive compared to my work-bench setup with the iMac. If I keep it at my office I'll have plenty of room, but I've already had complaints from the two cubicles adjacent my office.

I'm going to disassemble it at the least and put it through a hydrogen peroxide bath and clean it up.

I'll think more on what I'm going to do with it. I'm open to suggestions. But I don't think I'll be selling it any time soon, that's for sure.
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: keebler64 on Mon, 23 April 2012, 11:54:29
Quote from: jkercado;471736
Nope, not compatible. I have a Dell AT101W to compare with. The NEC switches are wider and narrower..."flatter", so to speak. Plus they're not as hard to remove as the ALPS. I'll take a pic tomorrow; it's in the office while my Model M takes its break.


Here are a few reference pictures. Let me know if you need more. The PCB is VERY simple, and would be easy to reproduce. All the discrete components would also be easy to replace with SMD components, I have a ton of Atmel Products I could make as a decent NKRO controller (Couple ATMEGA32U4s and some 168's). I've also got access to a CNC.  

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/713b9914.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/8e7d7565.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/086801a2.jpg)


And yes, I do surface mount soldering, I have a hot air reflow station and hakko iron, getting the tooling together so I can do proper BGA reballing as well. What I would like to do is build a decent PCB in Eagle CAD and print it. And either re-use the current MCU, or again, replace it with the chip above.
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: keebler64 on Mon, 23 April 2012, 12:02:43
Just a few more, then I'm done.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/b8372442.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/9465cc41.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/bb4b9815.jpg)
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: keebler64 on Mon, 23 April 2012, 12:58:29
I lied, a few more.....

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/086801a2.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/ebfcb54f.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/4c634f4a.jpg)
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: keebler64 on Mon, 23 April 2012, 16:03:54
It's final stage of dissassembly.

The death and (soon to come) resurrection of an NEC APC H-412.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/54a3e3cb.jpg)
Title: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: keebler64 on Wed, 25 April 2012, 22:14:47
Quote from: jkercado;471479
Got this yesterday at a local computer repair/parts shop. Thrown among all the old keyboard there it was. I didn't even know what it was, but the clicking of its keys was a telltale sign for sure. Got it for $1.99. Not bad at all. Took it home, gave it a really good cleanup (it was disgustingly dirty), assembled it back together, and it wasn't working properly! Dadgummit...After much thinking, I thought that maybe it's not 100% compatible with the blue cube I have connected to my laptop, so I took it to the office to see if it would work with my PC there, using a real PS/2 connector.


I just noticed, this was posted on my birthday... kinda serendipitous.

Anyway, jkercado, how is yours doing 4 months later? Still a daily?
Title: Re: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: dinusha.n on Mon, 24 September 2012, 09:59:58
Anyone selling key caps for Insert, Home and Down Arrow?. I have a NEC APC H-412 keyboard that's missing 3 keys. Any place to get them also would be helpful.
Title: Re: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 24 September 2012, 17:25:14
Quote from: keebler64 on Mon, 23 April 2012, 12:58:29
I lied, a few more.....

Show Image
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/086801a2.jpg)


^ can this be fixed if it fell apart by itself?

I have a similar NEC keyboard that I rescued after someone had been using it as a footrest, and they managed to kick the left arrow key completely off, switch and all.  When I removed the key cap the whole switch just fell apart.  Both pins are still stuck in the circuit board (looks like only one has come off in this pic), and I think I have all the bits, but they won't stay together if I put them all back in and squeeze it.

Can it be glued (i.e. the thin plastic bit with the little hole on each end)?  Can new legs be soldered on somehow?

Or is it simpler to replace it with a completely different switch?  I was thinking of an MX blue.
Title: Re: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: 486 on Mon, 24 September 2012, 23:27:29
Quote from: rowdy on Mon, 24 September 2012, 17:25:14
Quote from: keebler64 on Mon, 23 April 2012, 12:58:29
I lied, a few more.....

Show Image
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/Nicca64/086801a2.jpg)


^ can this be fixed if it fell apart by itself?

I have a similar NEC keyboard that I rescued after someone had been using it as a footrest, and they managed to kick the left arrow key completely off, switch and all.  When I removed the key cap the whole switch just fell apart.  Both pins are still stuck in the circuit board (looks like only one has come off in this pic), and I think I have all the bits, but they won't stay together if I put them all back in and squeeze it.

Can it be glued (i.e. the thin plastic bit with the little hole on each end)?  Can new legs be soldered on somehow?

Or is it simpler to replace it with a completely different switch?  I was thinking of an MX blue.
Why would someone use a keyboard as a foot rest?!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: Happiness returns! NEC APC H-412 keyboard, cool find, short review!
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 25 September 2012, 04:46:22
Quote from: 486 on Mon, 24 September 2012, 23:27:29
Why would someone use a keyboard as a foot rest?!?!?!?!?

The person in question put an old computer under his desk at work until he could take it home, including the keyboard.  5+ years later both were still there, yellowed with age, and covered in dust, food and hairs.

I rescued the keyboard.