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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 08:22:49

Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 08:22:49
I always thought Photoshop was supposed to be the ultimate photo editing tool, but I've found it to be a bloated, convoluted piece of crap. I can't seem to find an efficient, easy way to do anything. I'm used to Amiga paint programs, like PPaint and DCTV paint - where everything is logical and can be easily done without checking a manual or searching the internet for obscure, illogical procedures. Photoshop might be fine for running filters or adjusting colours, but for actual work it's a pain in the ass!

Why the hell can't I flood fill a certain colour and turn it transparent? What is this stupid "History brush" (not even listed in Photoshop Help) and why isn't there just a regular frigging paintbrush? Why do selections keep trying to "smart select" - which is actually incredibly stupid? Why does everything stupidly jump to grid unless I hold Ctrl. (Ctrl coincidentally also opens a bloody context menu on Mac!) Why does Photoshop never remember that I always want measurements by pixels and scaling by percent? Why does magnification never increase window size to match, forcing you to always magnify, then maximize? I could go on and on. I keep wondering why in hell this program became so popular and why there are no good alternatives. (no, Gimp is not a good alternative because it tries to copy Photoshop - just like OpenOffice tries to copy Word)

Does anybody else feel this way? (I mean, how could you not??) Please feel free to rant. Your rant is my pleasure.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 23 December 2011, 08:32:44
I dunno. I use The Gimp.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 23 December 2011, 08:34:21
Try Paint.NET.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: DaemonRaccoon on Fri, 23 December 2011, 08:35:55
Uhh that won't work on a Mac, Mono and Paint.NET don't work together.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 08:41:03
Quote from: RiGS;476582
Try Paint.NET.

That's Windows only and I'm using a Mac (PPC). I've tried a bunch of Mac graphics programs, but they all suck too.

It looks like the exact same problem as with Microsoft Word - once one program becomes the "standard", nobody attempts to do anything different and/or better. There are only clones and half-assed malformed attempts at being different.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 08:59:34
Quote from: ripster;476586
I love the history brush.  Very useful.

Please elaborate. How is it useful? I'd like to make it useful to me too.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 09:17:13
Quote from: ripster;476601
1st question.

Did you pay for it?

That's a good question.

It was already installed on this used PPC Mac I bought (from a design studio), so technically I did pay for it. If I didn't already have it, I don't think I'd want to pay the current $900 price for it.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: whiskerBox on Fri, 23 December 2011, 09:45:05
I too have a mac and Really hate photoshop sometimes. It also has its advantages as well though, but most of the time it is just frustrating. Try picking up one of those wacom tablets (the cheap pen one) it will make things a little easier. I also did a bunch of tutorials online to kind of find my way around photoshop and get a better understanding of how some of the settings work.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 09:52:42
Yes, I too have watched many video tutorials - but I always end up saying, "Why the hell do you have to do all that?" It seems like for many operations that should be simple and obvious, there is a convoluted tedious way of doing it - involving secret sub-menus and options on sub-dialogs on obscure tabs.

It looks like I'll have to watch 200 hours of videos and start memorizing. This is not the way well-designed software is supposed to be.

Edit: It might sound like I'm a "Photoshop newbie", but I've used various versions of Photoshop since 1996!
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 10:00:45
Quote from: ripster;476627
It seems better when you pay for it.

This phenomenon is called "post purchase rationalization".

True, but many times that kind of psychology doesn't work on me. I loved my iPod when I first bought it, but the more I used iTunes, the more I hated it until I said "**** it!" and got a Sansa Clip that had simple drag & drop file support. I'm sure if I actually paid for Photoshop separately, I'd be seriously regretting it by now.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 10:17:34
Bah! It looks Photoshopped. :wink:
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: whiskerBox on Fri, 23 December 2011, 10:18:18
^(Rip) LOL you are definitely making your avatar true haha
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:06:38
PS sure helps to keep the dog piss out of your spacebar. I recommend it to KL as well, as it seems he has troubles using the Gimp.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:07:39
Quote from: RiGS;476668
PS sure helps to keep the dog piss out of your spacebar. I recommend it to KL as well.

Huh? Why?
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:13:46
Quote from: RiGS;476668
I recommend it to KL as well, as it seems he has troubles using the Gimp.

I take it this is one of those Hungarian jokes that got lost in translation...
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:14:02
On a serious note. Melissa told you that they couldn't match the blue color of the spacebar you had originally chosen, so then you chose a bit lighter shade to avoid this problem. Despite your efforts they they did a terrible job.
I would ask for replacements. Personally I think this is beyond acceptable.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:17:02
Quote from: RiGS;476680
On a serious note. Melissa told you that they couldn't match the blue color of the spacebar you had originally chosen, so then you chose a bit lighter shade to avoid this problem. Despite your efforts they they did a terrible job.
I would ask for replacements. Personally I think this is beyond acceptable.

On a serious note, Nope.

What she told me was that they couldn't do a PBT spacebar and they would match it as well as possible in ABS. I had nothing to do with choosing the spacebar color, troll. The first color I chose had no match in ABS, but Melissa told me that the second one did.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:22:39
Lol, I just told the same, I think you misunderstood me here. I didn't mean to troll you. Oppositely I tried to defend you there.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:31:30
How am I a profiteer troll?

I LOST money on that group buy, and I did it for fun.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:36:21
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25213-(Or-Trade-for-87UW-all-45g)-Filco-tenkeyless-with-Reds-amp-doubleshots
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:41:36
^ You seem jelly :D

Are you not familiar with the basic principal of supply and demand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand)?

What I did, is actually pretty intelligent.

I guess you don't value intelligence?
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:44:18
Ok I'm done with this. I'm not here to fight I have better thing to do.
Stop being so defensive. No one trolled you. It was an innocent joke.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:50:09
There were a lot of happy campers in my group buy (including myself) so I don't appreciate trolling it.

Especially since those that have not only have no experience organizing group buys themselves, but also didn't participate in it so have no right to complain.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Malphas on Fri, 23 December 2011, 11:54:28
Yeah I often feel this way. I'm sure Photoshop is fine if you use it day to day, but if you just use it on occasion it's incredibly unintuitive.  I practically have to go find a tutorial every time I want to use it for anything other than simple stuff.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: RiGS on Fri, 23 December 2011, 12:01:07
For simple stuff I prefer Infranview.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 12:20:33
Quote from: ripster;476719
Aviary online isn't bad.  Advanced gives you layers.

http://advanced.aviary.com/online/image-editor

I'll check it out.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: pitashen on Fri, 23 December 2011, 13:52:51
No I don't. Because I am aware of the fact that Photoshop is a professional tool, which usually means that it would tend to be rather very user unfriendly. It is certainly not a piece of crap, this GUI madness is just a "trait" of these professional softwares. Besides, I have had worse experiences from some industrial CAD softwares back in college days, making Photoshop a way better experience in that respect.

That being said, I started photoshop back when I was in high school, I bought a book to learn it. By now I have forgotten most of the tricks I learned from the book. I use it now mainly to do digital paintings with wacom tablet, which utilize what like less than 5% of photoghops' full capability.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: fireball87 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 14:04:29
I really like the photoshop, and until other software follows suit for things that should be simple and are in photoshop (especially layer blending), I can't see me using an alternative.  I've also been using photoshop for a long time.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 14:29:35
Quote from: pitashen;476821
No I don't. Because I am aware of the fact that Photoshop is a professional tool, which usually means that it would tend to be rather very user unfriendly. It is certainly not a piece of crap, this GUI madness is just a "trait" of these professional softwares. Besides, I have had worse experiences from some industrial CAD softwares back in college days, making Photoshop a way better experience in that respect.

That being said, I started photoshop back when I was in high school, I bought a book to learn it. By now I have forgotten most of the tricks I learned from the book. I use it now mainly to do digital paintings with wacom tablet, which utilize what like less than 5% of photoghops' full capability.

"Crap" is perhaps a little harsh. If it really was crap, I would delete it from my system without a second thought. It has the potential to be great, but is badly organized and forces the user to go through loads of crap to do what they want. Being "professional software" is no excuse for having to take a course just to figure out basic functions. Good software shouldn't even require reading the manual. It should be obvious how things work. Good software should remember your preferred settings and have the ability to adjust to your way of doing things.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: laffindude on Fri, 23 December 2011, 16:01:35
Quote from: mr_a500;476840
Being "professional software" is no excuse for having to take a course just to figure out basic functions. Good software shouldn't even require reading the manual. It should be obvious how things work. Good software should remember your preferred settings and have the ability to adjust to your way of doing things.


Sure, but there are limits on how much you can dumb things down for new users and not gimp the program for user already familiar with the program. I think it is probably the most accessible of the professional software I've used. May be you're just using your workflow from other programs in PS, and that isn't going to work.

Though, I think most users don't really need Photoshop and are better served with a lighter and a more user friendly program. I don't know whether or not one exist for Mac, since I just use Photoshop in OSX (I am primarily Linux and Windows user). Irony is strong here. Many uses Mac for the simplicity, yet there aren't many easily accessible programs as PCs.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Spharx on Fri, 23 December 2011, 16:02:48
I am used to photo-shop and every time I try to use gimp on my Linux laptop I always think "wtf is this ****" and switch to my desktop computer an do the "shop" ;)
The things that you are used to are always the best!
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 23 December 2011, 16:35:06
Actually I find it rather easy to use, but perhaps just because I use it for more than a decade already...
Granted, some filters could be improved/added, also the lack of real "script-ability" sucks (you can only "record" action flows)
But for photo retouching, advanced manipulation there arent really much alternatives with the same capabilities (Paintshop Pro?)
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 16:44:38
Quote from: laffindude;476865
Sure, but there are limits on how much you can dumb things down for new users and not gimp the program for user already familiar with the program. I think it is probably the most accessible of the professional software I've used. May be you're just using your workflow from other programs in PS, and that isn't going to work.

I am not talking about "dumbing it down" and I am not a new user. As I said, I've used Photoshop off and on since 1996. I even used Photoshop 1.

I am talking about bad design.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 23 December 2011, 16:57:28
Photoshop has a lot of features that are heavy on resources in regards to image manipulation. I think it can be slow, but that doesn't make it a piece of crap...
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 23 December 2011, 17:55:19
I never paid the big bucks for Photoshop itself, but I have used Photoshop Elements for a decade at least.

There are obviously scores of features that I have never touched, and many others that I have barely used, but it seems lame.

Coming from truly primitive photo programs in the 1990s, I STILL miss some things like really clean and easy "make the whole picture lighter" that I do not think work nearly as well as they should.

And color balancing seems orders of magnitude more difficult than it needs to be.

And opening blank pages to paste things on, selecting to take the background instead of the foreground ......

I understand that "features" and "simplicity" are mutually exclusive, but it would be nice if there were a "simple" mode. My camera has one.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Rajagra on Fri, 23 December 2011, 18:03:55
PS certainly has some quirks. There are basic things you can do in GIMP that don't (seem to) have a direct equivalent in PS.

Some things work in mysterious ways too. The healing brush tool is great when it works, but sometimes it does weird stuff; instead of fixing a flaw it seems to paint the area with a highly contrasting colour that isn't present anywhere else in the image. It's doing something smart. So smart that I can't work out what the hell it is, or how to make it do what I want. So I have to do it in some manual way instead.

Here's another. Suppose I want to make a selection that's the whole image apart from a 10 pixel border. Easy right? Just select the whole image then shrink the selection. Oh wait, you can't. Because when you select the whole image, Select/Modify/Contract is greyed out. Why?
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: SmallFry on Fri, 23 December 2011, 18:04:02
Gimp...FTW! I myself have never ever used Photoshop at all unless you count the super simplistic iOS app)
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: laffindude on Fri, 23 December 2011, 18:15:58
New user part was a general statement. Feel free not to include yourself since it was not implied.
I don't think watching videos or anything is really the way to learn. You just learn the quirks of how other people do things, which may make things seem convoluted and nonsensical. There are many ways to do similar things in PS. There are ways that make you dig into the menus, and there are ways that does nearly the same thing with different set of tools. After all, you're just manipulating pixels. You can replicate the result even if you had to paint pixel by pixel.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 23 December 2011, 18:23:14
Anyone tried Pixelmator for Mac? I'm afraid that it is just another Photoshop clone with some features getting more attention than others.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 18:38:04
I'll give a very simple example. Say I want to draw a circle. On other programs I've used, I select the circle icon, pick the brush thickness (or just use the current brush), make the circle and it draws it on its own layer in the current colour (resizeable, movable). Now here's what you have to do in Photoshop (from the CS3 help):

    In the Layers palette, click the New Layer button  to create a new layer for the circle or square. Isolating the circle or square on its own layer makes it easier to work with.
    Select the Elliptical Marquee tool  or the Rectangular Marquee tool  in the toolbox.
    Drag in the document window to create the shape. Hold down the Shift key while dragging to constrain the shape to a circle or square.
    Choose Edit > Stroke.
    In the Stroke dialog box, type a value for Width, and then click the color swatch to display the Adobe Color Picker.
    In the Adobe Color Picker, locate the color range you want using the triangle sliders on the color spectrum bar, and then click the desired color in the color field. The color you select appears in the top half of the color swatch. The original color remains in the bottom half. Click OK.
    Set the location for the stroke in relationship to the marquee by choosing Inside, Center, or Outside. Adjust the other settings as desired, and click OK. Photoshop strokes the line using the color and stroke settings you set.


Yeah... that's intuitive. Who knew you used the marquee tool - which is for cutting - to draw a circle? Why would I have to select a menu item, then type a number? What if I wanted to draw it using the current brush? Why is it not resizeable? Why can't I change its properties after it's created?

I've got many more examples.

Another thing, why does Photoshop make so much use of right-click for context when Macs by default have a bloody one button mouse?
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 18:40:23
Quote from: Findecanor;476905
Anyone tried Pixelmator for Mac? I'm afraid that it is just another Photoshop clone with some features getting more attention than others.

I checked that out before, but it's been Intel-only for quite a while.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 18:44:26
Quote from: Rajagra;476899
PS certainly has some quirks. There are basic things you can do in GIMP that don't (seem to) have a direct equivalent in PS.

Some things work in mysterious ways too. The healing brush tool is great when it works, but sometimes it does weird stuff; instead of fixing a flaw it seems to paint the area with a highly contrasting colour that isn't present anywhere else in the image. It's doing something smart. So smart that I can't work out what the hell it is, or how to make it do what I want. So I have to do it in some manual way instead.

Here's another. Suppose I want to make a selection that's the whole image apart from a 10 pixel border. Easy right? Just select the whole image then shrink the selection. Oh wait, you can't. Because when you select the whole image, Select/Modify/Contract is greyed out. Why?


Hi there, Rajagra! Nice to see you back. :yo:
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Nighted on Fri, 23 December 2011, 19:01:09
Photoshop is used only when I must use it. For light duty stuff I've been using PhotoFiltre...pretty decent little program. Reminds me a bit of the Paint Shop Pro 3.xx days.

Artweaver and PhotoLine are also pretty good. I'd say Photoline is probably one of the best I've tried in ages.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: clickclack on Fri, 23 December 2011, 19:03:11
mr_a500-

I agree that many things could perhaps be more intuitive than they are in photoshop, however I have been using PS since early 1994. I first used 2.0 I believe I then went directly to 3.0 shortly there after. I hated them at the time as it was a bit of a learning curve but I loved the addition of layers. My computer at the time was so painfully slow though that it was of limited professional use and I still did most things manually until I got a tablet. I used 3.0 with a tablet and I have been using various tablets and cintiqs ever since. I think I breifly used 1.0 on my bosses older system at one point, I just remeber it bieing simple. Over the years I was extreemly happy to use PS and was even more excited when they became more robust, versatile, and we had equally robust and amazing tablets. I was an illustrator for years before I did anything else.

Over the years I have come to love PS, yeah sometimes there is a harsh learning curve with many tasks but honestly having used the following versions for profesional work- 2.0, 3.0, 5.0 tons, 7.0, CS and CS2 tons, CS3, CS4 tons, and a tiny bit with CS5. I think considering the power and comlexity of what they can do using a little bit extra brain juice from time to time is ok. Having used a number of other similar products over the years I can safely say that I truly can't stand most of them. A special note Regarding Gimp: I tried it for a few months before I decided that slitting my wrists was uncomfortable. I gave that program a damn good go and I have hated and regretted few things more.

The more you learn about photoshop the more odd some things seem but most things make much, much more sense and simple without learning specific tasks. I have never regretted the money I have spent on photoshop. I also found out many years ago that the more you learn about raster and vector capabilites the more clear many things become in photoshop. I do consider it a professional tool and as such a siginificant amount of adjustment and learning is probably needed. It needs some serious seat time to manipulate it in all the ways you want. I think its more user friendly now than it ever has been and much, much faster. I think it could be better certainly but I think in general few programs can touch it for usefullness and simplicity. Again though, I have used it to make a living for many years so I am sure that must warp my view. With the intertooobsNwebs being as silly vast as they are now help is usually a search and click away. Hooooray for that! Speeds up that learning curve and lessens painful seat time.

I think I feel the same way about Microsoft Word as you do Photoshop.
 
I am staying with CS4 and Painter 11 for a while though since I like them a good bit and don't have a huge need to switch it up. I just wish other programs were less glitchy compared to PS. Programs and equipment are usually way more capable and useful than we ever give them credit for.

=)

to Rajagra-
I am pretty sure you can do that though, unless you meant while using Gimp.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Nighted on Fri, 23 December 2011, 19:14:59
I just wish Photoshop wasn't so damn bloated.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 19:17:38
Quote from: clickclack;476919
mr_a500-

I agree that many things could perhaps be more intuitive than they are in photoshop, [...]

I'll try to put more effort into learning the convoluted "Photoshop way of doing things", but that isn't going to help with some of the annoyances. Maybe you can help:

1. Is there a way to have Image Size/Document Size always have "percent" as default instead of "cm"? (I'm always resizing and that bugs the hell out of me)

2. Is there a way to always open images at 100% zoom and adjust windows to fit the image when changed?

3. Is there a way permanently to turn off "jump to grid" when moving objects? (without having to hold down CTRL)

I would like to change the title of this thread (now that my anger has subsided a bit :wink:) to something more like "Why is Photoshop such a pain in the ass?" ...since I already agreed that "crap" was a bit too harsh. :smile:
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: clickclack on Fri, 23 December 2011, 19:52:34
for-

1. I change those values too often so I never had to figure out a way to change the default different than what it is (for me it's pixels/inch respectively).
Maybe it would be more useful to select the image and use Edit>Transform>scale that way you get the percentage at the top to noodle with. I doubt that it would be quicker though.

2. I must be dense today since I kinda don't understand this one.

3. Go to view>Snap To>select none.   You should be good to go I think.


Yeah, I think it's more of a PITA than crap sometimes, I think of it like a really stubborn but very bright child. Yeah you can get it impressively to do what you want most of the time, the rest of the time though it's a little snot! LoL
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Hydroid on Fri, 23 December 2011, 19:59:12
I don't know. I've been using photoshop since I was 12 years old and while I did find it complicated at first I've never looked up tutorials and always just done stuff myself with it. I think what did help was that I got into using photoshop through editing car pictures to make them look as though they were tuned up and so there wasn't any urgency in my being able to use the program for the first 3 years. By then I'd figured out enough stuff just by playing around that I could do basics, and to this day I still just play around with things whenever I do something and occasionally discover something new. I agree that it doesn't always seem to do things in the most efficient/logical way possible, but it's a program that has unrivaled power in my experience. (I've used countless other programs on the side as well as trying Gimp, Corel Painter, and an array of other photo manipulation programs out there.) It's like Sony Vegas, Premiere Pro and After Effects they are all very powerful pieces of software, but one heck of an intimidating nightmare to new comers. Even if you are a seasoned professional in one of them using another for the first time really throws you out. I saw this when I switched from Sony Vegas to Premiere Pro earlier on in the year.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 21:22:12
Quote from: clickclack;476939
2. I must be dense today since I kinda don't understand this one.

3. Go to view>Snap To>select none.   You should be good to go I think.

OK, the Snap problem seems to be fixed. One down, 139 to go. :wink:

The #2: when I open large images, they always zoom down (33%) to fit the screen. I usually want to resize the large images by 50%, but then the view is still at 33%, so I have to click three times to get it to 100%, then maximize the window because it hasn't enlarged to fit the image. If I include the annoying percent/cm thing, I will have clicked 5 times (in 3 different places) unnecessarily. If the damn program opened images at 100% by default without zooming - or if the window automatically adjusted to image size, I wouldn't have to click once.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 21:25:42
Quote from: Hydroid;476943
I don't know. I've been using photoshop since I was 12 years old


You must be pretty young. When I was 12 years old, Photoshop didn't exist. (Windows didn't exist, Mac didn't exist, a "Photo shop" was a place they developed film... and so on :wink:)

Quote from: ripster;476960
I should confess.

The only keyboard I own is a Dell rubber dome.  All my pics are photoshops.
(Attachment) 35825[/ATTACH]


I bet the "RipOmeter" is a complete fabrication and never really existed at all.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Rajagra on Fri, 23 December 2011, 21:30:10
Quote from: mr_a500;476977
The #2: when I open large images, they always zoom down (33%) to fit the screen. I usually want to resize the large images by 50%, but then the view is still at 33%, so I have to click three times to get it to 100%, then maximize the window because it hasn't enlarged to fit the image. If I include the annoying percent/cm thing, I will have clicked 5 times (in 3 different places) unnecessarily. If the damn program opened images at 100% by default without zooming - or if the window automatically adjusted to image size, I wouldn't have to click once.


As a workaround, try Control 1 (forces scaling to 100%) or Control 0 (fits image to screen, zooming in/out as necessary.)
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 21:37:16
Peisd
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: mr_a500 on Fri, 23 December 2011, 21:40:19
Quote from: Rajagra;476985
As a workaround, try Control 1 (forces scaling to 100%) or Control 0 (fits image to screen, zooming in/out as necessary.)


I tried Control 1, but it does nothing. ("My eyes... the goggles do nothing!")
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Nighted on Sat, 24 December 2011, 02:13:18
Quote from: mr_a500;476980
You must be pretty young. When I was 12 years old, Photoshop didn't exist. (Windows didn't exist, Mac didn't exist, a "Photo shop" was a place they developed film... and so on :wink:)

lol!

When I was 12 I was learning to program on Apple II's! :D
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: clickclack on Sat, 24 December 2011, 03:37:10
I think I get what you are saying now.
Well depending on your work flow or ease of movements I would try double clicking on the zoom icon in the tool bar. That will bring you instantly to 100%.
I use this quite a bit when I am on the cintiq, it's just faster for my workflow. Mapping zoom to your scrow wheel and/or touch strip is nice too if that is needed.

I just remembered you are using a mac! Raj's "control 1" should be "command 1" I think.
I use PC's mainly now so I don't remember all the Mac equivalents. try the command key instead.

=)
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Hydroid on Sat, 24 December 2011, 05:10:17
Quote from: mr_a500;476980
You must be pretty young. When I was 12 years old, Photoshop didn't exist. (Windows didn't exist, Mac didn't exist, a "Photo shop" was a place they developed film... and so on :wink:)


Yeah I'm pretty young compared to a lot of you here. ^^ I should say I started using it 7 years ago. But I have put a couple thousand hours into using Photoshop so I feel as though I know my way around at the moment, I'm just lacking in artistic talent to create good looking stuff.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: cactux on Sat, 24 December 2011, 05:18:24
I use Gimp in OSX and Linux boxes
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: laffindude on Sat, 24 December 2011, 14:40:33
Quote from: mr_a500;476909
I'll give a very simple example. Say I want to draw a circle. On other programs I've used, I select the circle icon, pick the brush thickness (or just use the current brush), make the circle and it draws it on its own layer in the current colour (resizeable, movable). Now here's what you have to do in Photoshop (from the CS3 help):

    In the Layers palette, click the New Layer button  to create a new layer for the circle or square. Isolating the circle or square on its own layer makes it easier to work with.
    Select the Elliptical Marquee tool  or the Rectangular Marquee tool  in the toolbox.
    Drag in the document window to create the shape. Hold down the Shift key while dragging to constrain the shape to a circle or square.
    Choose Edit > Stroke.
    In the Stroke dialog box, type a value for Width, and then click the color swatch to display the Adobe Color Picker.
    In the Adobe Color Picker, locate the color range you want using the triangle sliders on the color spectrum bar, and then click the desired color in the color field. The color you select appears in the top half of the color swatch. The original color remains in the bottom half. Click OK.
    Set the location for the stroke in relationship to the marquee by choosing Inside, Center, or Outside. Adjust the other settings as desired, and click OK. Photoshop strokes the line using the color and stroke settings you set.


Yeah... that's intuitive. Who knew you used the marquee tool - which is for cutting - to draw a circle? Why would I have to select a menu item, then type a number? What if I wanted to draw it using the current brush? Why is it not resizeable? Why can't I change its properties after it's created?

I've got many more examples.

Another thing, why does Photoshop make so much use of right-click for context when Macs by default have a bloody one button mouse?


That is just example of what I talked about. Quirks of that particular person. You can select a round brush and set to the size/size of circle you want, paint 1x and you got a circle. You can draw a circle with shape tool. There is no reason to do it his way if it is not intuitive to you.

Marquee is not just for cutting. Marquee is for selecting the area you want to manipulate.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Lanx on Sun, 25 December 2011, 11:15:17
i heard the mac version of photoshop has horrible menu controls as opposed to windows, idk i've only used windows and was able to navigate fine, years ago.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: fireball87 on Sun, 25 December 2011, 11:58:38
Quote from: Lanx;477535
i heard the mac version of photoshop has horrible menu controls as opposed to windows, idk i've only used windows and was able to navigate fine, years ago.

I don't really see how, I couldn't really tell the difference, one was laid out like mac menus, one was laid out like windows menus, but the contents seemed to be the same.  Better for the mac side is "help menu search", which helps a lot in finding certain things that I know the name of, but don't know the location for.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Rumudiez on Fri, 27 January 2012, 20:15:58
don't call a piece of software crap unless you've actually taken the time to learn it. Photoshop was my second image editing program after PhotoImpact and it's always been very intuitive for me, but i'm also a graphic designer by profession. though i have taken classes in it, i've been able to use Photoshop and Illustrator fluidly since i first picked them up.

PS really is a very useful tool and all of your complaints are just signs that you have no idea how to use the program, so pick up a "Dummie's" book or find some tutorials online.. i mean really TT

also, i love how far off topic and how quickly this thread got there. well done, guys xD
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Barn on Fri, 27 January 2012, 21:34:29
Lightroom 3 for photography, Portrait Professional for airbrushing, Photoshop CS5 for design and everything else :)

That's what I use.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: tomten_alle on Sat, 28 January 2012, 06:44:17
Quote from: Findecanor;476905
Anyone tried Pixelmator for Mac? I'm afraid that it is just another Photoshop clone with some features getting more attention than others.

It is great! I used Photoshop for years, then I switched to Mac. Photoshop for Mac is terrible. Pixelmator is what Photoshop for mac should be. It uses native controls, great keyboard shortcuts. The only issue with it is that it does not support RAW or CMYK.
Quote from: Nighted;476922
I just wish Photoshop wasn't so damn bloated.

Exactly!
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Rajagra on Sat, 28 January 2012, 09:11:31
Quote from: Rumudiez;501183
don't call a piece of software crap unless you've actually taken the time to learn it.
Well there's the problem. You can use PS for years without fully understanding it. Most users are like that.

Quote from: Rumudiez;501183
it's always been very intuitive for me, but i'm also a graphic designer by profession.
Another important point. Photoshop was never really intended for drawing/photo enhancement, but for graphical use (advertising etc.) It has bloated to include all roles, but this shows in the unintuitive interface.

Quote from: Rumudiez;501183
find some tutorials online..

Still a problem. Photoshop tutorials are kind of wooly. Not so much "how-to"s as "how you can"s. It is hard to find actual explanations of how things work.
Specific example: layer blending modes. In PS you are expected to just try them out and pick the one you like. No explanations are given.
In contrast, GIMP not only tells you what the modes do, with examples, it even gives you the formulae used (http://docs.gimp.org/2.6/en/gimp-concepts-layer-modes.html).
The PS way may be good for creative types. Not so good for us analytical types who need to understand what we are doing or we get confused.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 28 January 2012, 09:57:12
Quote from: Rumudiez;501183
PS really is a very useful tool and all of your complaints are just signs that you have no idea how to use the program, so pick up a "Dummie's" book or find some tutorials online.. i mean really TT

Wasn't that his whole point? That you shouldn't have to buy books and tutorials to figure out out a piece of software.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: sordna on Sat, 28 January 2012, 10:36:25
I use gimp on linux. These fake tenkeyless came up pretty good, the black unicomp took me about 3 minutes to do, the white took 15 because of the desk and cable, and because the original edges were not the same length on the photo. After trying to shrink the right edge it still didn't look right so I ended up copying the left edge, flipping it over and pasting it to the right. It's actually a very quick operation, gimp allows you to flip a pasted selection right on the target image and you can still move it around afterwards. The desk still looks bad, could have done better with it.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]38846[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]38847[/ATTACH]
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: hashbaz on Sat, 28 January 2012, 10:50:17
The Gimp intuitive ... lolwut?  As a novice I find Gimp incredibly opaque and frustrating.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: sordna on Sat, 28 January 2012, 10:55:15
Maybe. Never said it was intuitive though! I slowly accumulate skills on it, like fliping that pasted bit thing. Oh and layers are cool once you figure out you can cycle through them with PgUp/PgDown.
But yes, instead of Gimp'ing imaginary keyboards, I sometimes use a dremel instead:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]38848[/ATTACH]
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 28 January 2012, 10:59:00
I'll T-ball you in a minute, Ripster.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: hcry4 on Sat, 28 January 2012, 11:01:30
You misspelled tea bag.
Title: Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??
Post by: nineteensc2 on Thu, 02 February 2012, 10:30:29
Photoshop is rather good, you just need a bit of patience and enthusiasm to get started.