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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: jkercado on Sat, 24 December 2011, 01:48:00

Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: jkercado on Sat, 24 December 2011, 01:48:00: Dammit, how is it that after so many years it's now when I realize how well compact keyboards work? I've taken my IBM M4 to the office. The short design allowed me to place my trackball nicely beside it, instead of 15 meters away from it like it happends with regular keyboards. This simple difference in control arrangement makes for a way smoother work experience. My right hand has to move less to handle the trackball; it is right there. I'm stoked and pleased at this revelation.

Plans for 2012? I'm seriously tempted to get a nice mechanical compact keyboard. Maybe a Filco Ninja Tenkeyless, although it is a bit bigger than the M4. Maybe a Leopold? I dunno. But I'm definitely making the investment. Suddenly, numeric keypads are totally unnecessary to me.

:becky:
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: pitashen on Sat, 24 December 2011, 01:57:24: I am glad that more and more people are realizing the benefit of not having a numpad (for those who don't make much use of it).
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: sordna on Sat, 24 December 2011, 02:34:10: If you even find tenkeyless keyboards too large, you can go for a KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, KBC RACE, HHKB, or even a Truly Ergonomic !
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: davkol on Sat, 24 December 2011, 04:36:13: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: rhizo on Sat, 24 December 2011, 06:59:34: ima lefty so... :P
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: davkol on Sat, 24 December 2011, 07:16:48: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: nhwhaup on Sat, 24 December 2011, 07:41:44: I totally agree with smaller form being so much better to work with. Originally when I joined this forum I bought 2 full sized keyboards, a Filco with Red (just sold this past week) and a Realforce. I bought them mainly as that is what I was used to. When buying a keyboard for at home, I have much less space on my keyboard tray and thus purchased a TKL in order to keep the mouse on the same tray. Once that happened just couldn't go back. Love having the mouse closer and the smaller keyboards seem just so much more balanced. So my regulars are definitely TKL.

I also have the Poker with red switches and although I really like that keyboard and most everything about it, I don't like not having the dedicated arrow keys. Everything else about the key sharing works for me but I won't buy another keyboard without dedicated arrow keys.

Someday maybe they will come out with a HHKB in the US format with the arrow keys like the Japanese version. Maybe the HHKB 3? That in a silent version would entice me back into another purchase. Otherwise, I'm quite satisfied with the TKL versions.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: nhwhaup on Sat, 24 December 2011, 07:51:06: I forgot to add - I also have separate Filco and Realforce number pads that I use when I have to work with spreadsheets and do some number crunching. Even though my 87U Realforce has an embedded number pad, I still find myself going to the separate one.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: Architect on Sat, 24 December 2011, 08:45:10: Completely agree. I like the Filco in this regards, even the Kinesis is one in a sense, because instead of a useless keypad you get the benefit of hand separation.

I'm presently using a truly ergonomic which is a compact but has a fixed split, which seems to be the best of both worlds to me.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: powruser on Sat, 24 December 2011, 09:21:54: Just got my first mechanical keyboard. I went with a full size, not only because it's what I'm used to, but I like having it there whenever I need to do spreadsheet work. It's also useful for setting up custom key configurations in certain games, or making key binds, etc. My hardest decision when picking my first mechanical keyboard wasn't switch type or brand, but whether to go full size or tenkeyless/compact. I feel I made the correct decision for my usage, and the way you use your computer is really the deciding factor, neither is "better" or "worse" than the other.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: Human on Sat, 24 December 2011, 09:41:30: Quote from: ripster;477126
I'm beginning to think smaller than tenkeyless is TOO small.

My Siig Montery has GREAT switches but feels cramped.

Tenkeyless is just right. Like Goldilocks.
(Attachment) 35844[/ATTACH]

Wild pedobears spotted.

BTW, tenkeyless isn't exactly right for all ppl, this should be the one that is perfect for all ppl.
http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=33600&d=1322732472
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: emptyk on Sat, 24 December 2011, 10:07:05: Quote from: nhwhaup;477099
I also have the Poker with red switches and although I really like that keyboard and most everything about it, I don't like not having the dedicated arrow keys. Everything else about the key sharing works for me but I won't buy another keyboard without dedicated arrow keys.

I never knew about tenkeyless until I stumbled upon this site. I recently purchased a full sized keyboard, but am now considering a TKL. I've found that I use the numpad for some things and the number row for other things; not sure why. So I'm training myself to ditch the numpad to see if I can actually live a happy life with a TLK. I actually covered my numpad with a post-it note to force myself to exclusively use the number row. It's a little odd because I can use the numpad without looking, but still need to hunt and peck at the number row.

I agree about the dedicated arrow keys. I instinctively use them way too often, and wouldn't want to change my technique.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: Human on Sat, 24 December 2011, 10:21:24: Quote from: emptyk;477142
I never knew about tenkeyless until I stumbled upon this site. I recently purchased a full sized keyboard, but am now considering a TKL. I've found that I use the numpad for some things and the number row for other things; not sure why. So I'm training myself to ditch the numpad to see if I can actually live a happy life with a TLK. I actually covered my numpad with a post-it note to force myself to exclusively use the number row. It's a little odd because I can use the numpad without looking, but still need to hunt and peck at the number row.

I agree about the dedicated arrow keys. I instinctively use them way too often, and wouldn't want to change my technique.
Try this then? (only if you are able to source one, somemore in ANSI layout)
(http://cdn.overclock.net/b/b5/b581e49e_FKB100MNB_02.jpeg)
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: powruser on Sat, 24 December 2011, 12:19:21: Quote from: Human;477146
Try this then? (only if you are able to source one, somemore in ANSI layout)
Show Image
(http://cdn.overclock.net/b/b5/b581e49e_FKB100MNB_02.jpeg)

That seems like the perfect compromise, I'd wager it'd be very hard to find one of those in the good old US of A.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: sordna on Sat, 24 December 2011, 12:24:36: Well, there are other options: A tenkeyless with embedded numpad, like the IBM mini, the Realforce 87U, the Truly Ergonomic, and the Kinesis Advantage.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: Human on Sat, 24 December 2011, 12:50:28: Quote from: powruser;477198
That seems like the perfect compromise, I'd wager it'd be very hard to find one of those in the good old US of A.

Take this then, it should be much easier to be found, just that you need to get use to the BIGASS enter, tiny backspace and strange placement of shift(right) and "?"
(http://pcper.com/images/news/ces2011/Thermaltake_Meka.JPG)

Why don't any manufacturer out there made something like the Leopold(fake) I posted above? It's not that there isn't a market for it...
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: emptyk on Sat, 24 December 2011, 13:04:22: I think I'd go crazy trying to use a nonstandard layout at the office (which is where I keep and use my good keyboard), a standard layout at home (with the wife/kids), and a whatever layout on my laptop. Regarding those embedded numpads, my Vaio has one, and I hate it due to the offset nature of the keys and because it forces me to use the NumLk button. When working (I type documents a lot, no coding, no gaming), I need to efficiently and accurately enter numbers into sentences, tables, or cells from time to time, and I'm not sure if I could live with changing modes all the time. Same with those mini keyboards that use arrow keys combined with other keys. I'm always using the arrow keys to fly around my documents. Meh.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: cwilson on Sun, 25 December 2011, 17:02:43: Mini keyboards were never on my radar until I came here. But as soon as I started thinking about it I wondered why I've put up with a standard board for so long. Funny thing with standards is you never really question them because that's just what everybody does, but when you do you realize that another way would just be better. With the long keyboard I have to twist to the left to type, or move my chair over, but then I'm not lined up with the screen and that drives me a bit buggy. I never really use the numpad anyway, so why not get a board without it? Ergonomically speaking the mini just makes more sense. Evoluent did the elegantly simple solution of putting the numpad on the left, which is great unless you're a lefty. They have some great bird's eye pics on this page (http://www.evoluent.com/kb1.html) that say everything.

I'm not a fan of the Filco/Leopold tenkeyless design with the arrow keys on the side. Still too wide. What's the point of going compact if you're not going to go all the way? I'll be using an autohotkey script to put the arrow keys under the jkli keys anyway so I don't have to move my hands from the home row. I'm getting a KBT Race, I just wish it didn't have the row of extra keys on the right. Poker would have fixed that, but I wanted the F keys on top, and the backlighting on the Race was irresistible to the thirteen-year-old-boy in me (what can I say, he's very influential).
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: cactux on Sun, 25 December 2011, 17:13:59: I never use the number pad, so for me a TKL is just perfect. Also save some valuable space
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: blahsome on Sun, 25 December 2011, 19:14:46: Not having to move much is the primary reason why the vi editor, after you master its commands, is so insanely additive.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: RiGS on Sun, 25 December 2011, 19:29:45: Quote from: davkol;477072
Left-handed people have it easier. ^,^

I'm right-handed, yet I use the mouse with my left hand for practical reasons.
Of course gaming is another story.
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: elbowglue on Tue, 27 December 2011, 20:54:06: My sig and my avatar!
Title: The compact keyboard format really works
Post by: rvrebel on Tue, 27 December 2011, 21:53:18: I really like the look and the idea of a tkl but I just can't do it.

Mostly play fps and I can't get away from my arrow keys. I never adopted WASD probably because it started with arrow keys.

I shift my keyboard to the left so my left and right arms arent far apart (benefit of tkl) and then there's more room for a large hand. All keys around arrows are used including num pad, pg down, end, etc... I've only run into one other gamer who had a similar setup and we dominated the WASDs ;D

Also played with someone who used a trackball and was really good but that's another story.